Landlord approached me to increase the rent

Dgriff

Hi

My landlord knocked on my door today and he said that rents are going up and we havent had a rent review in "quite a while". Well it's been less than 2 yrs since the last rent increase (probably closer to a year). Well, he said that in lieu of a rent increase, if I would be happy to keep the rent the same but I would be responsible for maintenance / fixing things when they break. I said no, I am not comfortable with that at all. Then he said that he needs to increase the rent and asked me how much more I'd be willing to pay. I said I'd be willing to pay €50 more per month but he wanted more. This was a good time for me to get a few things off my chest. We have been here for 11 yrs. To say that he is economical with maintaining things is an understatement. The house badly needs an exterior painting job. He doesn't think he's responsible for that. I've been maintaining the garden since we've been here. I told him previously the inside needs painting. He never did it. I ended up doing it because we had a new baby. Plus many other things he hasn't fixed. In fairness he did replace the fridge and the dishwasher when they broke. I also have to say that I am 2 months behind in rent since back when all the sh1t hit the fan economically. At the time I asked him to take one of the months rent out of the deposit, which he did. And we agreed that the other months rent will be paid the day I leave (I'm actually going to pay that before christmas. My business is picking up thank god). So I said to him today, lets put this in perspective: the 2 months back rent represents less than 1% of the overall rent (in excess of €120,000 I have "shoved through your letterbox". He really didn't like this. In fact he really lost his cool. He asked me "are you accusing me of not paying my taxes?" WTF? I still dont know where he got that parallel. maybe he's paranoid. And then he really hit the roof when I said that one of his responsibilities is to paint / maintain the interior and exterior of the house. I told him it's a basic responsibility of a landlord and I couldn't believe that he didn't know this. I said that it says it on the PRTB website. Mention of the PRTB completely freaked him out!

Anyway, I think he'll probably give me notice to vacate because he mentioned numerous times in our "discussion" today that he could easily get someone else in here and charge a lot more rent. Can he do this especially considering all the talk about the govt putting a cap on rents? Does he need to give me 28 days notice before a rent review? And is he supposed to be approaching me like this in light of the upcoming change in law?

Needless to say, the discussion went downhill faster than Hernam Maier at at Kitzbühel and our relationship has seen better days but I think his approach today was simply wrong. Any advice?

c montgomery

He's an idiot!

As a landlord I would love you as a tenant.

Stheno

Your landlord is entitled to increase the rent in line with market rates once every 12 months, so there was nothing out of the ordinary in him telling you he is doing so within 28 days of increasing the rent.

It's not affected by the proposed changes in law that are not as of yet law.

As your tenancy is so old/long, maintenance of the garden can be something you are responsible for.

As for maintaining the property, yes he is responsible for that.
However given that you owe him a months rent and have no deposit for what would appear to be a considerable amount of time, I'm not sure he can justify all of the work you are wanting doing.

Dgriff

Stheno wrote: »

Your landlord is entitled to increase the rent in line with market rates once every 12 months, so there was nothing out of the ordinary in him telling you he is doing so within 28 days of increasing the rent.

It's not affected by the proposed changes in law that are not as of yet law.

As your tenancy is so old/long, maintenance of the garden can be something you are responsible for.

As for maintaining the property, yes he is responsible for that.
However given that you owe him a months rent and have no deposit for what would appear to be a considerable amount of time, I'm not sure he can justify all of the work you are wanting doing.

Hi
Just to clarify: I dont fully understand your first point about the 28 days. Are you saying he is within his rights to say he is raising the rent and for him to be paid that increased rent within 28 days? Or if he is notifying me of a rent increase does there need to be a 28 day window before that kicks in?

I thought his approach today was clearly a way to increase the rent in order to counter balance whatever govt rent freezes that might take place. That doesn't sit right with me. I thought it was just wrong. Thanks.

Stheno

Dgriff wrote: »

Hi
Just to clarify: I dont fully understand your first point about the 28 days. Are you saying he is within his rights to say he is raising the rent and for him to be paid that increased rent within 28 days? Or if he is notifying me of a rent increase does there need to be a 28 day window before that kicks in? Thanks.

He needs to give you 28 days notice.

So if he wants to increase the rent from 1st of January, he has to tell you 28 days before that.

BettePorter

So are you two months behind with rent or not? U say he took one month from deposit? So you're one month in arrears? You intending to pay this before Christmas is beside the point. You say he's replaced appliances when they broke. He even asked you what you thought you should pay so hes willing to compromise somewhat. You riled him by throwing prtb at him when to be fair to him you're the one on the back foot owing him money!

Dgriff

BettePorter wrote: »

So are you two months behind with rent or not? U say he took one month from deposit? So you're one month in arrears? You intending to pay this before Christmas is beside the point. You say he's replaced appliances when they broke. He even asked you what you thought you should pay so hes willing to compromise somewhat. You riled him by throwing prtb at him when to be fair to him you're the one on the back foot owing him money!

Yes, 2 months behind after 11 yrs, to put it in perspective. Intending to(and will) pay before chrismas is beside the point, why? He's replaced some appliances and some he hasn't replaced. He says it's not his responsibility to paint the interior (damp mould) or exterior (paint is falling off the walls in big flakes) of the house. I have paid 99.5% of my rent over 11 yrs. I am a good tenant.

myshirt

I can't give you a detailed reply as I'll be reprimanded by the landlords that rule over this forum. Refer to the PRTB and hold your rent in escrow until that date. You will get a favorable outcome and soften his cough. Most landlords on this forum know this. As always, I have to say to you get some indepedent non boards.ie advice before any movement, but insofar as any boards.ie comment is of any value and goes, consider it, and consider it strongly.

Best of luck.

Stheno

myshirt wrote: »

I can't give you a detailed reply as I'll be reprimanded by the landlords that rule over this forum. Refer to the PRTB and hold your rent in escrow until that date. You will get a favorable outcome and soften his cough. Most landlords on this forum know this. As always, I have to say to you get some indepedent non boards.ie advice before any movement, but insofar as any boards.ie comment is of any value and goes, consider it, and consider it strongly.

Best of luck.

Not paying rent will quickly escalate into an eviction order if the ll is so inclined.

OP is already in arrears

Dgriff

BettePorter wrote: »

So are you two months behind with rent or not? U say he took one month from deposit? So you're one month in arrears? You intending to pay this before Christmas is beside the point. You say he's replaced appliances when they broke. He even asked you what you thought you should pay so hes willing to compromise somewhat. You riled him by throwing prtb at him when to be fair to him you're the one on the back foot owing him money!

Stheno wrote: »

Not paying rent will quickly escalate into an eviction order if the ll is so inclined.

OP is already in arrears

Not paying rent? Let's be clear. I pay my rent. In arrears by less than half of one percent. I have paid in excess of €120,000 in rent over 11 years. Because I have paid over 99.5% of my rent over 11 yrs you seem to suggest I have no rights and the landlord can simply throw me and my family out on the street. I think you are simply wrong. Would the prtb have the same view as you? Don't equate me to someone who isn't paying rent. I pay my rent. I am a good tenant.

BettePorter

Dgriff wrote:

Yes, 2 months behind after 11 yrs, to put it in perspective. Intending to(and will) pay before chrismas is beside the point, why? He's replaced some appliances and some he hasn't replaced. He says it's not his responsibility to paint the interior (damp mould) or exterior (paint is falling off the walls in big flakes) of the house. I have paid 99.5% of my rent over 11 yrs. I am a good tenant.

I'm not saying you're not a good tenant. I'm saying that you re sounding entitled. Why do you keep mentioning the 120k you've paid. Do you expect him to say .... 'oh sure you've nearly paid for the house outright ... keep it '.
And you intending to pay before Xmas is beside the point simply because at the time of your conversation with the landlord its still outstanding.

I appreciate you ve been there so long its probably a catch 22 situation in that if you leave you' re leaving a place you ve put a lot of time and money into but he knows this too and probably why hes reluctant to stump up for cosmetics.

He might be a less than perfect landlord ... but he sounds like hes fairly amicable to compromise compared to a few i've had in the past.

Stheno

Dgriff wrote: »

Not paying rent? Let's be clear. I pay my rent. In arrears by less than half of one percent. I have paid in excess of €120,000 in rent over 11 years. Because I have paid over 99.5% of my rent over 11 yrs you seem to suggest I have no rights and the landlord can simply throw me and my family out on the street. I think you are simply wrong. Would the prtb have the same view as you? Don't equate me to someone who isn't paying rent. I pay my rent. I am a good tenant.

Read the posts in context, my post above was in reply to one suggesting you pay no further rent.

No need to be so hostile either

April 73

Your landlord can't just evict you. You have tenancy rights which he must adhere to. Being in arrears means that he could issue you a notice of arrears & start that process though.
Yes, he must maintain the property including the outside.

He can raise the rent once a year and must give 28 days notice. That's the law as it stands right now.
If you dispute the raise & believe he is charging above the market rate you can refer it to the PRTB.

I would imagine that negotiating with your landlord & keeping things amicable would maintain a better relationship between you than PRTB cases would. It sounds like you both left your last conversation feeling angry & hard-done-by.

handlemaster

OP you would be well advised to cut out the smart arse talk of how much you have paid . That was already agreed between you and him. You are behind in rent and are not in a position to be demanding . Having said that he did ask what you could afford as a start to negotiate

ongarite

Why do you keep bringing up how much rent you have payed in the past?
What's happened in the past regarding your payment of rent is irrelevant.
The fact is that in the present you are in rent arrears and your landlord could legally issue you with notice on these arrears and then start eviction proceedings if you still haven't payed after this notice period.

By pissing him off, he is more than likely going to up the rent to full market rent which based on your recent arrears you can't afford so will be forced to find alternative accommodation.

seamus

Dgriff wrote: »

Not paying rent? Let's be clear. I pay my rent. In arrears by less than half of one percent.

If this is how the conversation with your landlord went, I can see why it quickly escalated.

You need to chill out and read what's being said, nobody accused you of not paying rent.

I have paid in excess of €120,000 in rent over 11 years.

11 years which have now passed, during which you received a roof over your head and a landlord who clearly didn't annoy you very much. This wasn't cash into your landlord's pocket, it was payment for services rendered, in the same way you pay an electricity bill.
You pay rent monthly and you are one month behind, so you are in rent arrears of 100%.

Do not withhold any rent. In fact, clear your arrears right now. While you are in arrears, the landlord can issue you with a notice of arrears, which is the first step in the eviction process. Clear your arrears, and he cannot.
Decide what you want to do. He can raise your rent, with 28 days' notice. If he hasn't formally told you what your new rent is going to be, then you haven't been issued with notice.
Send him a polite note saying that as he has not told you what the new rent will be, you will continue paying your existing rent until you hear otherwise.

He cannot give you notice to vacate just because you've had a disagreement. When he does tell you what the new rent will be, remember you don't have to pay the new rent for 28 days, and it must be the market rent for that area (i.e. what he could get from someone else for the same property). If you believe the rent is in excess of this, open a case with the PRTB.

If he tries to evict you and doesn't follow the correct process, open a dispute with the PRTB, refuse to leave, but keep paying your rent.

The best way to handle this now is:

- Clear your arrears. Today.
- Find out the market rent for your property and make the landlord an offer for a new monthly amount. Don't just say, "I'll give you another €50". If the market rent is €200 above what you're paying, you'll need to meet him halfway.
- When you and your landlord have agreed (in writing!) on a new monthly rent amount, check the PRTB's website to see if the tenancy is registered, and if it isn't, ask the PRTB to follow it up.

Diarmuid

Dgriff wrote: »

Needless to say, the discussion went downhill faster than Hernam Maier at at Kitzbühel and our relationship has seen better days but I think his approach today was simply wrong. Any advice?

Well at least you can recognise what went wrong. Instead of you both having a measured discussion, focusing on the positives and trying to come to a compromise that would suit both, you let the discussion get derailed into point scoring, working each other up and "getting stuff off your chest"

In the big scheme of things you seem both happy with the tenancy, otherwise it wouldn't be 11 years long. I'd suggest letting him cool off and then approaching him with a more conciliatory tone. That doesn't mean you have to roll over for him but maybe approach him with options which suit both him and you. You look after the small stuff, paint the house etc and get him to pay for it. (you know, compromise) etc

Heisenberg1

OP I would contact the PTRB too see what your options are here. Have you been claiming tax relief on the rent you pay? By the sound of your LL reaction he may not be registered for tax.

Fol20

You seem like a loyal tenant over 11 years and your landlord seems to respect that.

It sounds like the landlord has replaced the mandatory stuff and may have left the aesthetic go by the way side. The looks is subject to personal opinion and wouldnt need to be replaced as often compared to your own house, however 11 years is quite a long time not to paint.

As other people have said,you sound entitled and that you should get a pat on the back for paying rent for the past 11 years. Im sorry to say thats a given.. If you weren't in the house someone else would pay the rent. Even though you have paid 99pc of your rent, not paying the 1pc of rent is crucial. You need to get that sorted as your landlord seems to have been fairly accommodating in allowing you use the deposit to pay for 1 of the months you havent paid. To give you an example, thats like saying youv got milk in the shop for the past 10 years however in the past month you just took the milk and havent paid for it yet.

You never mentioned if he has updated rent a few times over the past few years. More than likely he hasnt modified it much. If he is looking for a hundred euro increase and it hasnt been increased in a good few years, your probably getting a good deal and dont realize it. How about have a look on daft and see what other people are charging in your area. If you realize that it is still below what other people are asking, i would contact your landlord and agree to the increase, sort out the unpaid rent, and possibly apologise for when you mentioned the prtb. I would do this as you have created some tension in your relationship and its best to nip it in the bud before it gets worse.

Fol20

The minute the PRTB gets involved to mediate, your relationship with the Landlord will be non existent and he will have no problem increasing to full market rate amount. Use them as a last resort instead of threatening or bring them in just yet. Maybe call them to be informed but dont mention it to the LL and dont use them to mediate unless you cant resolve between yourselves.

Butters1979

First, it doesn't matter how much you paid, as you agreed to pay all of it, not most of it. All that matters is your are in arrears by 1 month, not by "0.5%". He could well begin arrears proceedings.

He is entitled to up the rent to within market rates if he gives you 28 days notice, as long as there hasn't been a rent increase in 12 months. If he is doing this because the new legislation is on it's way is irrelevant, again, he's within his rights. The fact is rents are going up, as so you could expect yours to also rise, regardless of how long you've been there.

One thing you mentioned is "shoved 120K through his letter box". Do you pay in cash? If so there may be something dodgy with his taxes and why he hit the roof when you said this. If this is the case you could easily resist a rent increase as he could be in trouble with the tax man if this went to the PRTB.
If you pay through the bank however and he is registered then no wonder he didn't like that statement.

Mrs OBumble

Dgriff wrote: »

I have paid 99.5% of my rent over 11 yrs. I am a good tenant.

What's happened over the last 10 years is irrelevant.

What's happened since you went into arrears is all that's relevant.

I'm curious: you told him to take one month's arrears from the deposit. How large was the deposit to start with? I don't think it was common to pay several months rent as deposit 11 years ago. So possibly he's now not holding any deposit?


Also, yes, I would agree that you are a good tenant.

But not an excellent tenant, or even a great one. But a good one.

I don't see that "good" gets you any rights - any most LLs who are running their business properly would have issued you official notice of arrears by now.

handlemaster

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

OP I would contact the PTRB too see what your options are here. Have you been claiming tax relief on the rent you pay? By the sound of your LL reaction he may not be registered for tax.

Assume hes not paying tax is always brought up when an issue arises with a tenant on boards. Why assume that ? The tenant is trying to be a smart a***. Plain and simple most people dont react well to that.

Butters1979

handlemaster wrote: »

Assume hes not paying tax is always brought up when an issue arises with a tenant on boards. Why assume that ? The tenant is trying to be a smart a***. Plain and simple most people dont react well to that.

I agree it's very presumptuous and it’s probably not true, however the OP mentioning paying rent by shoving it through the letterbox is a red flag to me, assuming it wasn’t a figure of speech.

Why would you want that much money in cash unless it’s avoiding the taxman? It just sounds suspicious.

whippet

From the OP's posting history it seems that the tenancy is registered with the PRTB .. which would lead me to believe the LL is probably tax compliant also.

I would also assume that the OP is getting a fairly favourable rent as he is been there for 11 years.

As for the OP’s assertion that they are a great tenant – any tenant who is in arrears and plans to be for the next couple of months isn’t a great tenant. The LL now also has no security deposit on your tenancy. Banging on about all the money you have given the LL over the last 11 years has nothing to do with anything – you received services for this money .. that’s the way a tenancy works. Paying ‘most’ of your rent does not deserve an award .. you are obliged and expected at a minimum to pay all your rent when you agree to a tenancy.

He is entitled to a rent increase to market rates, the outside of the building is his responsibility but not a necessity and irrelevant to the rent increase, the garden is more than likely your responsibility also – unless stated in the lease (but would you really want the LL showing up every Saturday morning in the summer with a lawnmower?)

handlemaster

The OP is just trying to exagerate to create an impression that money was been given in an underhanded . Because when the tenant isnt happy tenants always have to say stuff to make it look as if the landlord isnt nice or greedy.

Dgriff

Dgriff wrote: »

. Because I have paid over 99.5% of my rent over 11 yrs you seem to suggest I have no rights and the landlord can simply throw me and my family out on the street. I think you are simply wrong. Would the prtb have the same view as you?.

Its doesn't matter if you have paid 99.9% of your rent, being in arrears is a valid reason to issue notice of arrears and then notice of eviction.

Most LLs would have told you no when you asked to take it from the deposit and begin the process of eviction. The LL was foolish to agree to this imo as now he has no deposit for the house and is still one month in arrears.

allibastor

To be honest, many landlords after a while don't massively keep up the property.

If he is the type of LL who inst big on repairs, why didn't you just agree to the rent freeze

TBH I would call him back and just say you got off on the wrong foot with him, you are just concerned as much as he is with the rate increase

BettePorter

allibastor wrote:

If he is the type of LL who inst big on repairs, why didn't you just agree to the rent freeze

Good point! If you ve been doing it anyway thus far then a rent freeze would be better than a 50+ a month rise (600 quid a year to be your own maintenance guy) ...obviously if the boiler etc needed replacing etc that would be diff.

antoinolachtnai

There are certainly many problems with the way your landlord is treating you.

I think there is a reality that your landlord is just not very good at arranging jobs like painting.

The reality is that your rent is in arrears. If you don't have the arrangements in relation to deferral you describe in writing he is in a strong position to seek his arrears be repaid within 14 days. If you don't pay in that time he is entitled to terminate the lease and give you notice. There are a few other gotchas with termination for arrears but that is basically it. If you decide to withhold rent he will certainly take this step.

If I were you I would try to come to some sort of arrangement with him.

I would suggest that you tell him you will pay off the arrears at a rate of 50 euros a month (or maybe a bit more) and that you will get the house painted at your expense *just this once*. I would take over looking after the garden too. For other repair stuff I would suggest it be at his expense but that you will make the arrangements.

You've had good relations with this landlord for a long time so I would try to find some way to recover the situation.

allibastor

BettePorter wrote: »

Good point! If you ve been doing it anyway thus far then a rent freeze would be better than a 50+ a month rise (600 quid a year to be your own maintenance guy) ...obviously if the boiler etc needed replacing etc that would be diff.

I gather from the OP that the LL doesnt do any small ticket items, but will do the structural stuff, such as white goods. Maybe build that in, like saying you will do the internal stuff like its your house, but any white goods or such are his call