More fines for landlords..

handlemaster

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/curbs-on-landlords-who-evict-to-sell-up-34185259.html

Another kick at the landlord. I have still to see anything about non paying tenants and how this can be dealt with quickly. <MOD SNIP>

Butters1979

Your title "more fines for landlords" should read "more fines for landlords breaking the law".
Just don't evict tenants to "sell" if you have no intention to sell. Seems fair.

seamus

Those who are intent on using excuses to get tenants out will continue to do so, I don't think additional fines or requirements are going to do anything about it.

Issue notice to tenant, stick property up on myhome.ie during the tenant's notice period, ignore all requests to view it, take it down a month after the tenant has left.

wowy

I have no problem punishing landlords that use the intention-to-sell mechanism, but who then make no honest attempt to sell the property.

However, with the way that legislation is becoming more onerous on landlords, I'd be concerned that this would lead to creepage that eventually landlords would be fined if they evict on the basis of intention-to-sell, but then don't actually sell. Yes, it would punish those landlords who use the mechanism just to evict a tenant, but it would unfairly penalise landlords who make an honest attempt to sell, but couldn't complete (no acceptable offer, no bank consent, etc).

Gatling

seamus wrote: »

Those who are intent on using excuses to get tenants out will continue to do so, I don't think additional fines or requirements are going to do anything about it.

Issue notice to tenant, stick property up on myhome.ie during the tenant's notice period, ignore all requests to view it, take it down a month after the tenant has left.

Don't think it's going to be that easy

"Landlords will have to provide written evidence, in the form of a statutory declaration signed by a solicitor or auctioneer, to tenants outlining their intention to sell."

ted1

Gatling wrote: »

Don't think it's going to be that easy

"Landlords will have to provide written evidence, in the form of a statutory declaration signed by a solicitor or auctioneer, to tenants outlining their intention to sell."

so it might cost €100 to get a note from a Solicitor.

they really need to target rogue Tenants. Rents might come down if landlords dont have to make allowances fro non payment of rent, etc.

as i said before, if the government want landlords to accept rent allowance tenants, they shoudl underwrite them and cover any instances of non payment, breach of lease and damage.

Butters1979

I certainly see your point that is concerning fining landlords who honestly try to sell but can't. That would be unfair. I feel the legislation is aimed specifically at those who do not however. The article is extremely vague and doesn't really say how they would identify those who were dishonest.
"If they are found to have conned tenants into moving out, landlords will face a fine." is all it says. Has anyone read the actual legislation?

Thephantomsmask

seamus wrote: »

Those who are intent on using excuses to get tenants out will continue to do so, I don't think additional fines or requirements are going to do anything about it.

Issue notice to tenant, stick property up on myhome.ie during the tenant's notice period, ignore all requests to view it, take it down a month after the tenant has left.

If the property becomes available to live in in the first 3 months after the tenancy ends then the landlord is legally obliged to offer the previous tenant first refusal to move back in.

_Brian

Gatling wrote: »

Don't think it's going to be that easy

"Landlords will have to provide written evidence, in the form of a statutory declaration signed by a solicitor or auctioneer, to tenants outlining their intention to sell."

Say I do that and have a few viewings but the offers I get on te house are crap. So I decide to continue renting. Danger is the previous tenant could report and I'll be fined !!

All recent "initiatives" have been just tenant based. If anything there are more reasons to get out of the business and so less rental stock available, price pressure further increases.
There should be some effort to allow more tax relief for general landlords, make it more Profitable and the rental stock will increase and rents ease off.

There seems to be an attitude that it's a crime for a landlord to make a profit. There will be no functional market until the investor who is hanging for half a million and upwards is allowed to make a profit.

testaccount123

_Brian wrote: »

Say I do that and have a few viewings but the offers I get on te house are crap. So I decide to continue renting. Danger is the previous tenant could report and I'll be fined !!

Then dont evict your tenant from their home just to test the market...

These measures are to be commended. We need to encourage professional property rental businesses in this country, not single property landlords who dont understand the law and are just looking to make a quick profit by flipping the property.

Fol20

Everything is geared toward helping tentants. Do the government want to decrease supply even further with more and more landlords leaving the market.

Can anyone name one good thing that has been given to Landlords in the past 5 years..

On the other end of the scale Can people say a few things that are increasing the pain felt by landlords.

It should be a comprise instead of a one way street for the past few years and tenants still arent happy.

_Brian

testaccount123 wrote: »

Then dont evict your tenant from their home just to test the market...

These measures are to be commended. We need to encourage professional property rental businesses in this country, not single property landlords who dont understand the law and are just looking to make a quick profit by flipping the property.

I think that's an unreasonable approach.
The standard starting position is that every landlord is a cuunt, more so in they only have one property!!

If an estate agent appraises the property well, I decide to sell, move tenants out, house fails to achieve what the property professional advised me it would. And I'm the demon ??
So many rented properties are in financial trouble it's not unexpected to try and get out if you think it's feasible, now your to be fined if you can't sell.

Anyway, ultimately it's the tenants that suffer the more Landlords are hammered and forced to drop the properties.
Locally to is rented properties are being dropped and picked up into home ownership. The stock of rental property has evaporated and rents are continually moving up as supply/demand is getting tighter. When my last tenants were moving out after five years (without one rent increase) we had a plethora of families desperate to rent and after six months some still haven't secured properties. The old "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind when I hear so much enjoyment in seeing landlords being continually slapped down.

heebusjeebus

Could you not just tell the tenants that you want to move back into your house?
When they leave, you can "change your mind", and re-let.

FrStone

_Brian wrote: »

I think that's an unreasonable approach.
The standard starting position is that every landlord is a cuunt, more so in they only have one property!!

If an estate agent appraises the property well, I decide to sell, move tenants out, house fails to achieve what the property professional advised me it would. And I'm the demon ??
So many rented properties are in financial trouble it's not unexpected to try and get out if you think it's feasible, now your to be fined if you can't sell.

If you decide to rent again, you just offer first refusal to your previous tenants to move back in again and thereby avoid any fine.

It's a good measure to avoid landlords trying to get rid of a tenant every year so they can up prices.

However Alan Kellys measures are so watered down they don't do a huge amount for either tenant or landlord.

Thephantomsmask

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Could you not just tell the tenants that you want to move back into your house?
When they leave, you can "change your mind", and re-let.

Same thing as selling above, you are obliged to give them first refusal within three months if the property becomes available. Three months is a lot of rent to lose just to try and scam previous tenants for more rent, nevermind the prtb fines if a landlord is caught doing it.

borderlinemeath

With the increases in rents, increased tenant protection and landlord isolation, it's getting to the stage where an illegal eviction is going to be more cost effective than going through the proper channels to get rid of a problem tenant.

I'm all on for clamping down on rogue landlords, but at this stage the measures being suggested are ridiculous if the powers that be think it's going to increase supply in any shape or form. Who are the government advisers that are advocating these measures? Do they consult landlords or even tenants before coming up with these measures? As a landlord who hasn't increased rent since July of 2014 I'm seriously thinking of selling up. The tenants are grand, but they will struggle like everybody else to find somewhere that is the same rent. In reality they're looking at a 30-40% increase for a similar property. As it stands the property is probably not in negative equity but it's only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, so if there's only lowball offers and I can't get out of the mortgage then I'll be forced to withdraw the sale. And then have the threat of a fine? Nice timing as well with revenue online deadline this Friday :rolleyes:

Fol20

Thephantomsmask wrote: »

Same thing as selling above, you are obliged to give them first refusal within three months if the property becomes available. Three months is a lot of rent to lose just to try and scam previous tenants for more rent, nevermind the prtb fines if a landlord is caught doing it.

Its 6 months. Mind you after a tenant moves out he will more than likely be tied to a new house or risk loosing his deposit so he will more than likely not move back in.

murphaph

Fol20 wrote: »

Can anyone name one good thing that has been given to Landlords in the past 5 years..

Actually I can't think of a single thing that the state has done to improve my experience as a landlord. I know the German state has reformed tenancy law in that time and has tackled the issue of rent nomads head on with fast track processes to remove such people. At least there's a bit of give and take here.

murphaph

Fol20 wrote: »

Its 6 months. Mind you after a tenant moves out he will more than likely be tied to a new house or risk loosing his deposit so he will more than likely not move back in.

Exactly....the practicalities mean most tenants will not move back in, especially in the LL "strongly hints" that he intends to put the house up for sale again in the near future to see if the market has improved or whatever.

These are all silly paper measures. We need real reform of the tenancy laws for the benefit of all except the bad landlords and tenants.

gaius c

seamus wrote: »

Those who are intent on using excuses to get tenants out will continue to do so, I don't think additional fines or requirements are going to do anything about it.

Issue notice to tenant, stick property up on myhome.ie during the tenant's notice period, ignore all requests to view it, take it down a month after the tenant has left.

Yeah to hell with tenants and their rights. Sure they are only cattle to be moved from one milking parlour to the next.

gaius c

Fol20 wrote: »

Can anyone name one good thing that has been given to Landlords in the past 5 years..

The ability to keep taking in rent and not pay their own financial obligations.

Gumbo

gaius c wrote: »

The ability to keep taking in rent and not pay their own financial obligations.

That sweeping statement is like saying every tennant destroys your property and takes no care in it. So in other words, BS.

borderlinemeath

gaius c wrote: »

The ability to keep taking in rent and not pay their own financial obligations.

There's as many, if not more bad tenants than bad landlords. That don't pay their rent and destroy the landlords asset. There's also plenty more who think it's their absolute right to not pay the last months rent to ensure the "greedy" landlord doesn't get to keep their deposit, and also leave plenty of undue mess behind them. But sure they're just the poor victim tenants.:rolleyes:

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

The ability to keep taking in rent and not pay their own financial obligations.

That's landlords taking advantage of a general "allowance" if anything. Any home owner is free to abuse the system in this way.

Can you name a specific measure taken by the state in say the last decade to improve things for law abiding landlords like me?

jetfiremuck

It always amazes me we have the gov establishing rules for rentals, that gets screwed up, then the gov dabble to fix the resulting problem. Looks like the push is make property rental an awkward restrictive business one way or another

handlemaster

gaius c wrote: »

The ability to keep taking in rent and not pay their own financial obligations.

Hardly a intelligent statement to make. Why dont you say all tenants are terrible to deal with.

handlemaster

jetfiremuck wrote: »

It always amazes me we have the gov establishing rules for rentals, that gets screwed up, then the gov dabble to fix the resulting problem. Looks like the push is make property rental an awkward restrictive business one way or another

This move by government is nothing more than electioneering . Its designed to take the air from the rental problem

April 73

On the doorsteps next year FG & Labour will say "We did something about rent rises. We brought in rent control". Not much consolation to tenants who are having their rents pre-emptively increased right now or those getting a steeper than expected rise to take account of a two-year freeze.
It won't go down too well on the LLs doorsteps either.
It doesn't look too clever as vote-winning policies go!

conorhal

borderlinemeath wrote: »

With the increases in rents, increased tenant protection and landlord isolation, it's getting to the stage where an illegal eviction is going to be more cost effective than going through the proper channels to get rid of a problem tenant.

I'm all on for clamping down on rogue landlords, but at this stage the measures being suggested are ridiculous if the powers that be think it's going to increase supply in any shape or form. Who are the government advisers that are advocating these measures? Do they consult landlords or even tenants before coming up with these measures? As a landlord who hasn't increased rent since July of 2014 I'm seriously thinking of selling up. The tenants are grand, but they will struggle like everybody else to find somewhere that is the same rent. In reality they're looking at a 30-40% increase for a similar property. As it stands the property is probably not in negative equity but it's only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, so if there's only lowball offers and I can't get out of the mortgage then I'll be forced to withdraw the sale. And then have the threat of a fine? Nice timing as well with revenue online deadline this Friday :rolleyes:

You're falling into the trap of assuming this is about landlords or tenents, it's about electoral optics.

This will drive a lot of landlord's out of the market, yeah there are some unscrupulous ones, but quite often the 'ol I'm selling up tactic (or raising the rent for that matter) is often about removing a problem tennent rather then making more money, because the truth is it's neigh on impossible to get shot of a problem tennent without it costing you 18 months of rent.

I was listening to a Newstalk interview there a few weeks ago that told the heartbreaking tale of a single mother of three about to be evicted into homlesness by a heartless landlord who had hiked her rent by 40% over the past two years.
The intervew was going quite well untill the poorly media trained victim of this landlords greed departed from the script and mentioned that, in her opinion, the landlord just hiked up the rent to force her out because of complaints of anti social behaviour about her kids from other tennents in the apartments. She was aparently 'sick of defending them to her landlord and her neighbours'. When asked if she could stay with family in the meantime she intimated that she 'didn't get on with any of them'. You show me person who's family would rather see them homeless then deal with them and I'll show you sombody you probably don't want to live next to.

Needless to say the interview swiftly concluded when the 'heartless landlord and the desperate tenent' narrative collapsed and the truth of the situaton became obvious. She was being rendered homeless because she was a pain to live next to and had a very combative relationship with both landlord and neighbours, who had clearly had enough of her and were using the only means they had at their disposal to get rid of her.

handlemaster

as conorhal was mentioning the old story of the poor tenant be thrown out by the bad landlord is been peddled out to often. The fact is for the public they are only been given a version of the truth there is never the other side been told of what these ... helpless tenants are actually getting up to in the properties they rent.. and don't forget .. the poor children... the poor things...

handlemaster

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/landlords-have-nothing-to-fear-says-alan-kelly-705115.html


Kellys says its about protecting tenants... wheres the protection for landlords with tenants... this is going down hill fast..