M20 Limerick to Cork

power101

At the end of September the current government came out with their capital investment plan from 2016 to 2021. A noticeable project missing from this is the M20 motorway from Limerick to Cork. Is anyone else shocked by the fact we will then not have any motorway complete by more than likely 2030 since it will take at least 5-10 years to plan and build assuming its included in the next capital plan etc.

The west coast will never be able to compete with the east coast unless the basic infrastructure is built. At the moment usually takes 1hr 45 to 2 hours to get the cork. 1hr 49 on Google I know as I travel the route regularly.The distance is 100km by the current road so with a motorway it would take only 50 minutes and as the crow flies it would be 86km so a straighter route would mean travel times of under 45minutes.

Surely this needs to be made an election issue. It's basically if you vote Fine Gael you're voting for no to important infrastructure in Limerick and Cork for the next 15 years and no M20.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/little-chance-m20-cork-limerick-motorway-will-be-built-by-2030-363809.html

Jofspring

As has been mentioned before, there is no way Dublin want Cork, Limerick and Galway to be linked up by motorway. We would become an even more attractive prospect for international companies and a would most likely take jobs out of the capital.

It's absolutely crazy there is no motorway. You actually wouldn't even need to build a motorway. If the roads were even wider and more direct it would actually suffice. All people want are better and safer roads.

Mc Love

There is a whole thread dedicated to the topic in the Roads forum. Apparently there is a plan for an Atlantic corridor from Cork to Derry, but it could be years circa 2030 before its complete

steveon

Jofspring wrote: »

As has been mentioned before, there is no way Dublin want Cork, Limerick and Galway to be linked up by motorway. We would become an even more attractive prospect for international companies and a would most likely take jobs out of the capital.

It's absolutely crazy there is no motorway. You actually wouldn't even need to build a motorway. If the roads were even wider and more direct it would actually suffice. All people want are better and safer roads.

Totally agree with you if this was Dublin it wouldn't even be at planning or any other stage but completed years ago....the nra or whatever waste of money they have spent changing there name should be held responsible for all deaths that are lost on this disgraceful peace of infrastructure and totally agree even extending the dual carriageway or widening in a lot of sections should at lease be expected not just us outside the pale feeding off the crumbs as always....

Cookiemunster

Lets throw some facts at your little rant there.

steveon wrote: »

Totally agree with you if this was Dublin it wouldn't even be at planning or any other stage but completed years ago....

Dublin doesn't get all the spend. Ask any Dub about the metro or Dart underground and they'll tell you exactly that. In fact they'll complain about the money being wasted on things like the M17/M18 or road upgrades in Mayo rather than their transport needs.

steveon wrote: »

the nra or whatever waste of money they have spent changing there name should be held responsible for all deaths that are lost on this disgraceful peace of infrastructure

The M20 is top of the former NRAs priorities, but the government wont finance it.
Also the NRA also didn't just decide to change their name. The government decided to amalgamate them with the RPA to create TII (Transport Infracstructure Ireland) as a money saving exercise.

steveon wrote: »

and totally agree even extending the dual carriageway or widening in a lot of sections should at lease be expected not just us outside the pale feeding off the crumbs as always....

Dublin holds 1/3 of the population of the county so it's obviously going to get more funds than any other part of the country. The rest of the country doesn't just get crumbs.

If you want to blame anyone, blame our local ministers and the government. We have the second most powerful politition in the country in Limerick and he has done absolutely nothing for us. Enda on the other hand has gotten roads left, right and center in Mayo.

mitresize5

Cookiemunster wrote: »

If you want to blame anyone, blame our local ministers and the government. We have the second most powerful politition in the country in Limerick and he has done absolutely nothing for us. Enda on the other hand has gotten roads left, right and center in Mayo.

Michael Noonan has delivered more jobs for Limerick in 4 years that FF did in 20. Viagogo, Uber, Regeneron are three off the top of my head. We are punching way above our weight in terms of new job announcements. This is no coincidence although some people will continue to believe what they want to believe.

The roads in Mayo were built in Pee Flynns time.

If your looking for an Irish 'model' on how to get roads built look at the Healy Raes in Kerry. Support the government in return for bypassing every little hamlet in your neck of the woods.

Next spring is the ideal time for an independent in South Limerick or North Cork to run on this platform as most likely independents will hold the balance of power in the next Dail.

As much as it galls me to say it this is the only way I can see that road being kick started.

cgcsb

Jofspring wrote: »

As has been mentioned before, there is no way Dublin want Cork, Limerick and Galway to be linked up by motorway. We would become an even more attractive prospect for international companies and a would most likely take jobs out of the capital.

hehe. There is absolutely no fear that a completed M20 would make a dent in Dublin's economic dominance. It'll shave 30 mins off the car journey, that's all. You can currently travel between Cork and Limerick in 90 minutes by train. If Irish Rail brought in a direct service it'd be 70 minutes. The motorway won't be the silver bullet you imagine. The regional Cities themselves need to be better managed. Cork and Galway need an events center and a real BRT system with park and ride. Both Cork and Galway need to end urban sprawl and bring in strict planning and high density living, then you'll start to see economies of scale emerge.

cgcsb

steveon wrote: »

Totally agree with you if this was Dublin it wouldn't even be at planning or any other stage but completed years ago....the nra or whatever waste of money they have spent changing there name should be held responsible for all deaths that are lost on this disgraceful peace of infrastructure and totally agree even extending the dual carriageway or widening in a lot of sections should at lease be expected not just us outside the pale feeding off the crumbs as always....

The recent capital investment plan saw commitment to the M17,M28 and M25/M11 along with road upgrades in the west and rural broadband schemes. Dublin got nada, zilch, DARTu and Metro North, both of which would carry the entire population of Cork in a single day, got canned. Dublin got the short end of the stick despite raising the majority of the State's revenue. So really it's Dublin that got the crumbs despite having the greatest need. Web summit left Dublin sighting poor infrastructure. Dublin's money doesn't get spent in Dublin, it fills potholes in the bog to get Inda re-elected.

Silentcorner

cgcsb wrote: »

hehe. There is absolutely no fear that a completed M20 would make a dent in Dublin's economic dominance. It'll shave 30 mins off the car journey, that's all. You can currently travel between Cork and Limerick in 90 minutes by train. If Irish Rail brought in a direct service it'd be 70 minutes. The motorway won't be the silver bullet you imagine. The regional Cities themselves need to be better managed. Cork and Galway need an events center and a real BRT system with park and ride. Both Cork and Galway need to end urban sprawl and bring in strict planning and high density living, then you'll start to see economies of scale emerge.

And therein lies the problem.

Not only have we an overdeveloped Capital city, we also have one of the most Centralised System of Government in the developed world.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-local-government-too-centralised-council-of-europe-report-1.1387984

Truth is, we don't have any control of our destiny all decisions are made by unelected City/County Managers who are the most powerful officials in the regional cities...and they answer to the Dept of Environment not politicians.

The M20 would allow development in the same way the M50 has.

This should be urgent because Dublin is in crisis and has been for some while, from homelessness to crime to congestion...the quality of life for ordinary Dubs has been damaged significantly...no one wants long commuting times, no one really wants to live in Suburban Dublin which is really a bunch of stand alone satellite towns stretching 50/60km into the countryside.

The likes of George Redmond/Liam Laylor/Ray Burke/Bertie Ahern/Charlie Haughey have destroyed the chances of Dublin ever been a city that can have free flowing, socially integrated suburbs.

Mr.H

Direct distance between Limerick and Cork is approx 100KM. On a motorway that is about 45-50 min drive (of course that is point to point which is not a reality on any motorway. Just pointing out that a motorway between the two cities would be of huge benefit)

Anyone pretending this isnt Dublin trying to stop other cities from growing is deluded or a government supporter.

For every 20 job announced in the country about 18 of them are for the capital or surrounding areas. While a 3rd of the population does live there, the government mandate is to grow the capital and for that they need more people living and working there to be attractive to foreign investors. This means they are encouraging people to live in the capital therefore encouraging jobs in the capital to bring more people there.

They say there isnt enough water to fill demand in the capital yet there was 10 years ago......................... its because there are more houses now in the capital. If there isnt enough then what is the fast cheap way to fix it? maybe encourage people to live in other parts of the country?

They say transport is an issue in Dublin............................... The Dart, Luas, Bus lanes everywhere, Cycle routes everywhere, M50, bypasses everywhere, bridges everywhere, Bus routes everywhere on a very very very frequent service. No excuses. If there still isnt enough transport to fill demand what is the easy cheap solution? maybe encourage people to live in other parts of the country?

They say rent is high and housing is unavailable so house prices and rent go up. What is the fast cheap way to fix it? maybe encourage people to live in other parts of the country?

Come on ffs surely I am not the only one seeing this

CIT, UCC, UL, LIT, NUI, WIT all good standard colleges in the 3 "other cities" which would be huge prospects for technology companies coming to this country.

A motorway running from Galway to Limerick and down to Waterford and Cork would be a huge boost to the three cities in terms of opportunities in investment as well as take the pressure off the capital in terms of utilities, housing and road congestion.

Building the road would bring huge amount of jobs for the building sector.

Shannon has the longest runway in the country yet it has been all but decommissioned by Dublin over the years because any success outside Dublin is deemed as a rival of Dublin.

So dont pretend that this government give two shoes about the people outside Dublin. We may not be 1/3 of the country but we are the remaining 2/3's

Top class transport in Dublin yet we sometimes wait for a bus for an hour to get from the City to Thomond

cgcsb

Mr.H wrote: »

Anyone pretending this isnt Dublin trying to stop other cities from growing is deluded or a government supporter.

You're barking mad. If them Dubs are so powerful why did Dublin get completely shafted in the recent capital spending plan?

Mr.H wrote: »

They say transport is an issue in Dublin............................... The Dart, Luas, Bus lanes everywhere, Cycle routes everywhere, M50, bypasses everywhere, bridges everywhere, Bus routes everywhere on a very very very frequent service.

We've been promised DART underground for 40 years, and it's now 20 more years away :eek: The M20 only saw the light of day a decade ago. Public Transport in Dublin is woefully inadequate.

Mr.H wrote: »

Shannon has the longest runway in the country yet it has been all but decommissioned by Dublin over the years because any success outside Dublin is deemed as a rival of Dublin.

It's the other way around, Dublin was forbidden from having a new longer runway because it would be seen to be competing with Shannon. Despite Dublin having ten times the number of passengers.

Ireland is a small country, one major hub airport and smaller airports with a much shorter list of destinations is sufficient. The Netherlands recognises this, and that's why Schipol is their only major hub airport serving a population of more than 20 million.

Mr.H wrote: »

So dont pretend that this government give two shoes about the people outside Dublin. We may not be 1/3 of the country but we are the remaining 2/3's

Dublin is run by Rural TDs, we have no control over our own affairs, we can't even keep our own property tax much less the 50%+ of state revenue that is raised in Dublin.

Silentcorner

cgcsb wrote: »

You're barking mad. If them Dubs are so powerful why did Dublin get completely shafted in the recent capital spending plan?



We've been promised DART underground for 40 years, and it's now 20 more years away :eek: The M20 only saw the light of day a decade ago. Public Transport in Dublin is woefully inadequate.



It's the other way around, Dublin was forbidden from having a new longer runway because it would be seen to be competing with Shannon. Despite Dublin having ten times the number of passengers.

Ireland is a small country, one major hub airport and smaller airports with a much shorter list of destinations is sufficient. The Netherlands recognises this, and that's why Schipol is their only major hub airport serving a population of more than 20 million.



Dublin is run by Rural TDs, we have no control over our own affairs, we can't even keep our own property tax much less the 50%+ of state revenue that is raised in Dublin.

Dublin is a low rise city, which has created a logistical nightmare, also which interestingly made the land around Dublin far more valuable, if only there was a way to influence the planners of the city eh? If you believe that poor infrastructure is a result of rural TDs you are barking mad!!

I agree, Dublin is a disaster, one car crash this morning brought the city to a standstill...a joke!!!

But it wasn't rural TDs that have damaged Dublin City....I have already listed the TDs who in my opinion have severely damaged the quality of life for ordinary Dubs...

cgcsb

Silentcorner wrote: »

Dublin is a low rise city, which has created a logistical nightmare, also which interestingly made the land around Dublin far more valuable, if only there was a way to influence the planners of the city eh? If you believe that poor infrastructure is a result of rural TDs you are barking mad!!

I agree, Dublin is a disaster, one car crash this morning brought the city to a standstill...a joke!!!

But it wasn't rural TDs that have damaged Dublin City....I have already listed the TDs who in my opinion have severely damaged the quality of life for ordinary Dubs...

but it's the rural TD who needs to be re-elected that keeps Dublin from receiving significant spend on transport. road building in Mayo is flying along to get Enda back in. Dublin got nothing in the recent capital investment plan despite being by far the most populous City.

Silentcorner

cgcsb wrote: »

but it's the rural TD who needs to be re-elected that keeps Dublin from receiving significant spend on transport. road building in Mayo is flying along to get Enda back in. Dublin got nothing in the recent capital investment plan despite being by far the most populous City.

All TDs need to be re-elected including Dublin TDs.

You are right to be annoyed at the state of Dublin but you are directing your anger in the wrong direction, look closer to home.

Back in 2000 Bertie chanced the decentralisation program, a disaster from start to finish...but even back then it was recognised that the state was being developed in a very uneven fashion that was over 15 years ago...it would have made more sense to direct more FDI into the regional cities back then.... I am aware that the likes of Google/Facebook etc wouldn't set foot in a provincial city, but a lot of the smaller FDIs wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.

Or for example, they could have moved RTE and it's 2,000 jobs out into Waterford for example...it would have brought down the wage bill, maybe then they could afford the 6 Nations Championship...

But Dublin is paying for the costly mistakes made in the Planning Department, and will continue to pay long into the future...

Mr.H

cgcsb wrote: »

You're barking mad. If them Dubs are so powerful why did Dublin get completely shafted in the recent capital spending plan?

:eek: wow. So Dublin got "shafted"??

• €2.4 billion, 16.5km Metro link from Dublin city to the airport and on to Swords
• The Dart line will be extended to Balbriggan
• Planning will begin on extending the Dart to Maynooth and to Hazelhatch
• Phoenix Park tunnel will be reopened
• M7 Naas to Newbridge Bypass Widening

Thats just some of the transportation upgrades that affect Dublin under the aforementioned Capital Spending Plan. Still think Dublin got "shafted"?

cgcsb wrote: »

We've been promised DART underground for 40 years, and it's now 20 more years away :eek: The M20 only saw the light of day a decade ago. Public Transport in Dublin is woefully inadequate.

The DART underground another few Billion to finish. The fact is that a cheaper solution was available.

The rest of the country has infrequent bus services let alone underground railways ffs. It is impossible to rely on a bus on a Sunday in Waterford or Limerick (I cant speck for Cork and Galway as I havent lived in either but Im sure they probably have similar issues).

In Dublin it IS possible to get anywhere in the city or surrounding areas by public transport. That is NOT a possibility in other cities and that is not good enough.

Pretending Dublin is the city that is being left rot is a joke.

cgcsb wrote: »

It's the other way around, Dublin was forbidden from having a new longer runway because it would be seen to be competing with Shannon. Despite Dublin having ten times the number of passengers.

Hence they took the profits from Shannon for years and used them to redevelop Dublin. Dublin where forbidden, so instead they tried to slowly take Shannon apart. Have you been to Shannon in the last 20 years? Hasn't changed much. They took routes away from Shannon by offering airline companies rates and deals to use Dublin. This of course wasnt possible for Shannon as they where run by Dublin. Shannon is now standing on its own but with a half shut down Airport they are struggling.

Shannon could have easily been THE ONE Airport in the country with proper motorway connections.

The thing is its easier to sell Dublin as a major European Capital to investors by having Dublin as the major Airport. By redirecting all routes to Dublin and forcing the issue they have basically killed Shannon.

cgcsb wrote: »

Ireland is a small country, one major hub airport and smaller airports with a much shorter list of destinations is sufficient. The Netherlands recognises this, and that's why Schipol is their only major hub airport serving a population of more than 20 million.

Smaller Airports generally dont have larger runways. Dublin only became much larger in the last 20 or 30 years. The only reason it became so big is because they havent allowed the likes of Shannon and to a lesser extent Cork, to upgrade their airports.

If funding was being given to upgrade the countries airports it was only Dublin reaping the benefit.

cgcsb wrote: »

Dublin is run by Rural TDs, we have no control over our own affairs, we can't even keep our own property tax much less the 50%+ of state revenue that is raised in Dublin.

Yea poor Dublin. Of course the rest of the country is paying water charges and property tax to build facilities to transport water from the Shannon to Dublin........................ But lets not leave facts get in the way of the Republic of Dublin

Silentcorner wrote: »

All TDs need to be re-elected including Dublin TDs.

You are right to be annoyed at the state of Dublin but you are directing your anger in the wrong direction, look closer to home.

Back in 2000 Bertie chanced the decentralisation program, a disaster from start to finish...but even back then it was recognised that the state was being developed in a very uneven fashion that was over 15 years ago...it would have made more sense to direct more FDI into the regional cities back then.... I am aware that the likes of Google/Facebook etc wouldn't set foot in a provincial city, but a lot of the smaller FDIs wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.

Or for example, they could have moved RTE and it's 2,000 jobs out into Waterford for example...it would have brought down the wage bill, maybe then they could afford the 6 Nations Championship...

But Dublin is paying for the costly mistakes made in the Planning Department, and will continue to pay long into the future...

Yea like Apple in Cork...............................

When a major company talks to Ireland about coming here, they open negotiations about rates and locations and such. We usually depending on the company give them huge tax incentives. We encourage these companies to come to Dublin. This is because when new investors look at Ireland we can say "look we have Google, Amazon, Facebook all here in Dublin". From a selling point of view it makes sense. Although I am sure any salesman could also spin them being in the country rather than just one particular city.

With high speed Internet sweeping through the country................... VODAFONE (not government sponsored*) installed these lines. If it was Eir, I am pretty sure it would have been Dublin sorted first. But with our Broadband now at a much higher level I am sure the next big Internet companies would love to be in Cork or Limerick. Why wouldnt they? Top class IT Colleges at their doorstep, An International Airport and not in a crazy busy city such as Dublin. Plus the natural tourist crap for any clients they may have.

A motorway going even from cork to Limerick with an upgrading of the roads from Limerick to Galway would turn these three cities into an attractive option for any major organisation.

Of course allowing Shannon to actually become an Airport again would be pretty handy.
*open to correction

Cookiemunster

Few things Mr. H.
Eircom/Eir have been a private company since 1999 so you're correct they'd follow the money first rather than spread around loss making areas.
All the cities (including Limerick) already have pretty high speed internet.
Vodafone are rolling out their offering in conjunction with the state owned ESB.

While to a point I agree that the DAA stifled Shannon, you're completely wrong that Dublin grew to the size because of this. Dublin grew because it resides in a city of 1.5m people. Shannon would never have been as big as it's located in totally the wrong place.

cgcsb

Mr.H wrote: »

:eek: wow. So Dublin got "shafted"??

€2.4 billion, 16.5km Metro link from Dublin city to the airport and on to Swords

But of course that's not happening,it's been long fingered for 6 years. That means it'll be drawn up...again and it'll become an election promise in 2021

Mr.H wrote: »

The Dart line will be extended to Balbriggan

Won't happen in the next 6 years but even if it did, that's not a significant investment.

Mr.H wrote: »

Planning will begin on extending the Dart to Maynooth and to Hazelhatch

Planning has already been completed on those projects, the government let the planning permission expire a few weeks ago and now they say they'll start it again. In other words it's not happening.

Mr.H wrote: »

Phoenix Park tunnel will be reopened

At a cost of less than €10m this project began long before the capital investment plan was announced. It's the only €10m being ACTUALLY being spent on transport projects in the Capital.

Mr.H wrote: »

M7 Naas to Newbridge Bypass Widening

Not in Dublin, once it's open it'll only encourage more cars into Dublin, i.e. it's a bad project for Dublin.

Mr.H wrote: »

Thats just some of the transportation upgrades that affect Dublin under the aforementioned Capital Spending Plan. Still think Dublin got "shafted"?

Yes, terribly for reasons outlined above.

Mr.H wrote: »

The DART underground another few Billion to finish. The fact is that a cheaper solution was available.

No there was and is no cheaper solution available, so we get nothing.

Mr.H wrote: »

The rest of the country has infrequent bus services let alone underground railways ffs.

Yeah you don't have underground railways in the rest of the country because the rest of the country is not the capital, and by far the largest City in the country. The notion that if Dublin gets underground rail that everywhere else needs it is plain stupid.

Mr.H wrote: »

Shannon could have easily been THE ONE Airport in the country with proper motorway connections.

:eek: why would we actively chose to locate our one HUB airport on the edge of nowhere in Shannon as opposed to the fringes of the capital, like every other small modern nation? They didn't build Schipol Airport in the Mastricht for a reason.

Mr.H wrote: »

The only reason it became so big is because they havent allowed the likes of Shannon and to a lesser extent Cork, to upgrade their airports.

That's not true now is it? Dublin Airport is much bigger because it is the handiest airport for the vast majority of people, people vote with their feet. Dublin airport was moving more than 20 million passengers before T2 was built

Mr.H wrote: »

Yea poor Dublin. Of course the rest of the country is paying water charges and property tax to build facilities to transport water from the Shannon to Dublin.

Again not happening.

Jofspring

It may be the capital but Dublin size wise is not a big county. Ireland has been squeezing people into Dublin for years without the infrastructure. If more was done to push people around the country then it would alleviate a lot of problems in Dublin. People will move where the jobs are. A lot of people dread the thoughts of having to move to Dublin but are forced to do so due to lack of work elsewhere.

cgcsb

Jofspring wrote: »

It may be the capital but Dublin size wise is not a big county. Ireland has been squeezing people into Dublin for years without the infrastructure. If more was done to push people around the country then it would alleviate a lot of problems in Dublin. People will move where the jobs are. A lot of people dread the thoughts of having to move to Dublin but are forced to do so due to lack of work elsewhere.

People move to cities because that's where the jobs/education/social opportunities are in a globalised economy. If they didn't all move to Dublin they'd move to Cork, either way we'll have to bite the bullet and build proper infrastructure in the Cities.

goochy

I am a Dub who left Dublin / Kildare area 9 yrs ago to move to Cork ( job transfer) , when I lived in Dublin area I really didn't like this country however having seen so much of Ireland now I love my country. I think the reason Dublin is so rundown despite being relatively prosperous is that theres no real pride in the county- not talking about the type who go to Hill 16 !

osarusan

Lack of a proper road between Cork-Limerick-Galway is a complete joke whatever the reason.

Between limerick and both cities, the road quality varies from motorway standard to something little better than a country lane.

I drove to Cork recently and had some farmers just stop the traffic so they could get their cows across the road!

Jofspring

cgcsb wrote: »

People move to cities because that's where the jobs/education/social opportunities are in a globalised economy. If they didn't all move to Dublin they'd move to Cork, either way we'll have to bite the bullet and build proper infrastructure in the Cities.

Precisely and having a decent and safe road between three big enough counties/cities is vital to better infrastructure for those cities. We aren't talking a motorway between two small villages in the back arse of nowhere.

MilfordBud

Mr.H wrote: »

Yea like Apple in Cork...............................

When a major company talks to Ireland about coming here, they open negotiations about rates and locations and such. We usually depending on the company give them huge tax incentives. We encourage these companies to come to Dublin. This is because when new investors look at Ireland we can say "look we have Google, Amazon, Facebook all here in Dublin".

Amazon are based in Cork too

power101

We can use some of the €19 billion apple will have to pay us in back taxes to build the infrastructure. They expect the negative ruling against apple by the end of the year. Hopefully Noonan and Fine Gael don't follow through on their absurd appeal for the taxes due to us.

Mr.H

The fact is that a motorway would have improved this part of the country in a far bigger way than a lot of projects in Dublin.

Do Australia concentrate on their capital? How about America??

Fact is just because its a capital doesn't mean the rest of the country has to be forgotten about.

Amazon, Dell, Apple had no problem being outside Dublin. I am sure other companies also could give a toss. Its about selling and that is what the government do. They sell the capital to companies because it follows their mandate.

1000 jobs in Limerick is worth a potential 100,000 votes through keeping the locals happy.

1000 jobs in Dublin (or the surrounding areas) is worth 1.5 million votes through keeping locals happy.

As for people preferring Dublin Airport back in the day that is rubbish. I know a load of people who use to prefer Shannon and they where from Dublin. I currently prefer Dublin as it has all the flights.....................

Mr.H

power101 wrote: »

We can use some of the €19 billion apple will have to pay us in back taxes to build the infrastructure. They expect the negative ruling against apple by the end of the year. Hopefully Noonan and Fine Gael don't follow through on their absurd appeal for the taxes due to us.

I think despite their denial, Apple would walk away if we didnt at least appeal.

I for one think all companies should have to pay. I say screw the corporation tax aswell to be honest. Other countries have no issues attracting investors without the corporation tax

Jofspring

Dublin airport Isn't exactly a preferred airport, most of the time it's just the only option. Most people on this side of the country would prefer to fly from Shannon or even cork (if there was a decent road). If your from Limerick and you have to fly from Dublin you add 4 hours round trip just getting to Dublin, then the price of petrol say €50 and then the price of parking another €40. People from Limerick, Clare and even Galway would most likely get dropped and collected from Shannon airport by friends and family, especially with the motorway from Limerick to Tuam going to be finally finished.

marno21

As someone who has one of the higher post counts in the M20 thread on the roads forum, I am delighted someone has decided to start a thread in the Limerick forum because it's good to see it's on the minds of Limerick people and not just those with an interest in the Roads forum.

The M20 being threatening to the strength of Dublin is a fairly valid reason as to why the M20 hasn't been constructed, however Dublin's 'strength' can't get much strong from a transport point of view. The M50 is at present at capacity peaking at 160,000 vehicles a day (between the N4 junction and the N7/Red Cow juncton) (capacity is stated at 140,000). There is no immediate plans to improve public transport bar the Luas Cross City works, which aren't going to be of much use for someone commuting Maynooth - Sandyford.

One thing I don't understand is how the N18 route has been developed along it's entirity yet the N20 route has been completely untouched from the end of the Croom bypass to the beginnng of the Blarney DC (bar the retrofitting of the 2+1 scheme between Mallow and Rathduff which actually ended up making the road more dangerous and reduced through traffic speed when someone got stuck behind a tractor on the '1' sections). The N18 got the Shannon/Hurlers Cross upgrade (2003), Newmarket on Fergus bypass (2002), Ennis Bypass (incl N85 relief road some of which is DC) (2007), Crusheen to Gort (2010) and now Gort to M6 (2018 opening, will probably be 2017)

From a pragmatic point of view, if this motorway is to progress it needs to be split. At present it is two suspended schemes:

* M20 north from Attyflin (N20/N21 merge) to Velvetstown near Buttevant, including N21 Adare Bypass. The Adare bypass section is no longer relevant to this scheme because it's being advanced as part of the Limerick to Foynes improvement scheme. This scheme involves the online upgrade of the Croom bypass and a new Croom junction where the old N20 meets the Croom bypass not too far north of Croom (by the Adare Machinery premises)

* M20 south from Velvetstown to a future junction with the N40 Cork North Ring Road near Blarney. This scheme also includes the construction of said North Ring Road, and includes an online upgrade from the Burnfort junction on the existing N20 as far as the Blarney DC.

I'm not sure on this but I think whilst the project was being mooted it was either progress the two above as a single project (whilst everyone thought we had an endless supply of money) or progress as two projects running side by side. Whatever the plan was, we got neither.

It's evident that we need this motorway but this government seems to have no interest in the road network other than to get votes. The recent road elements of the capital investment plan are fairly pathetic. A lot of schemes that are tiny, under constructed or EU funded. Nothing major and 0km of new motorway

Irish_rat

I think they should go ahead and get the online section on the croom bypass done just like the Nenagh bypass. At least it will be started somewhat. Then the government get their thinking hats on and deliver this in 2 separate projects. Croom to Mallow should be priority first.

I don't think infrastructure investment is Dublin centric at all. Projects like DU and Metro North are as critical as the M20. All 3 should be the utmost priority right now. FG are the problem. Not a FF supporter but boy did they get the roads built. Gort-Tuam was all ready to go just before FG took power. They have done zilch apart from the M1 widening and a few Mickley mouse bypasses. They stopped from getting M20 to tender and it was well on track to do so saving a few million at the time has been a huge mistake IMO.

The country is improving we should be building critical projects like this now.

An outer orbital bypass of Dublin will be needed in 10/15 years time, a road from Naas to Meath to the M1

cgcsb

Jofspring wrote: »

Precisely and having a decent and safe road between three big enough counties/cities is vital to better infrastructure for those cities. We aren't talking a motorway between two small villages in the back arse of nowhere.

I'm in favour of the M20 going ahead. I don't think it'll make Dublin smaller though, as people here are suggesting.

cgcsb

Mr.H wrote: »

As for people preferring Dublin Airport back in the day that is rubbish. I know a load of people who use to prefer Shannon and they where from Dublin.

oh an anecdote. Incorrect though, Dublin was always head and shoulders a much bigger airport, in terms of passenger numbers. Shannon's real passenger numbers were revealed when the compulsory stop over at Shannon was ended.

Your friends probably preferred to fly from Shannon because quiet airports are generally a more pleasant experience. Nobody likes waiting in line for an hour.