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Ban on heading the ball in US youth soccer

  • 10-11-2015 9:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,495 ✭✭✭✭


    Well as if the sport couldn't get any crazier over there, now the young players in the MLS youth teams are forbidden from heading the ball, due to fear of concussion. What a load of bollocks IMO.

    Full story here: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/10/health/us-youth-soccer-concussions/

    What do ye make of this?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Broxi_Bear_Eire


    Utter nonsense IMHO heading a ball was more dangerous in the past when the ball would absorb water in bad weather and make it very heavy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I used to get dizzy, blurred vision and headaches after heading things like crosses and kick outs (even when I headed it properly). Some people just have a thinner layer of protection around the brain. Even when I got older the same happened so I just avoided heading the ball, unless it came at me at a slower rate.

    I think a better solution would be to just use a lighter ball for kids.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    More recently, researchers looked at concussions among U.S. high school soccer players and found rates in girls' and boys' high school soccer had risen between 2005 and 2014. For every 10,000 "athlete exposures" -- meaning a student participating in a game or practice -- the study calculated 4.5 concussions for girls and 2.8 among boys, a rate less than half that for football but still significant.

    Heading a soccer ball wasn't the main reason, with the report finding that players were more likely to suffer concussions after other forms of physical contact..

    With the NFL concussion lawsuits and people in the USA who sue everyone left right and centre, wouldn't be surprised to see it banned


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    Makes sense to me

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/nov/01/football-heading-brain-damage

    repeated heading of the ball causes concussion. It doesn't really show up so kids keep heading before it has any chance to repair. "Modern" doesn't mean perfect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    Do kids that age play american football?

    If so, surely that's considerably worse for head trauma?


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  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Hmm, the research quoted seems to indicate that concussions in soccer are mainly caused by other types of physical contact. Seems to indicate that this won't actually do all that much. That said kids skulls would still be developing and possibly more susceptible to damage. (edit: just saw atilladehun's post indicating heading does indeed contribute to concussions)

    Teaching kids to keep the ball it on the ground would be a beneficial by-product of this.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,370 ✭✭✭✭Oat23


    I used to get dizzy, blurred vision and headaches after heading things like crosses and kick outs (even when I headed it properly). Some people just have a thinner layer of protection around the brain. Even when I got older the same happened so I just avoided heading the ball, unless it came at me at a slower rate.

    I think a better solution would be to just use a lighter ball for kids.

    Same used to happen to me. I was also the tallest on the team and marked the front post at corners, so I was heading the ball multiple times in every game. Also in training when we were practicing defending/attacking crosses.

    Was always annoyed I had to give it up when I moved, but now I look back I don't care as much. Thinking about all the light headedness and blurred vision I used to get has started to bother me over the past few years and I'm worried for the future a little.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I think it's a good idea, we have to protect kids from head injuries.

    I hear Tony Pulis is unhappy about it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Is there anything that isn't potentially dangerous anymore.Every single sports seems to have some sort of negative side affect to it and it seems like pretty much every single food causes cancer these days.

    Surely if heading the ball was so dangerous there would be a huge amount of players from the past suffering because of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Tomagotchye


    They will amazing at the ground game now. Right way to go. Sure Messi rarely uses his head.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭AllGunsBlazing


    For a country that's mad on contact sports their child proofed attitude towards the beautiful game is somewhat baffling.


  • Subscribers Posts: 32,855 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    It'll be a non contact sport there soon judging by this.
    Heading a soccer ball wasn't the main reason, with the report finding that players were more likely to suffer concussions after other forms of physical contact.

    "If we can enforce the rules and minimize player-to-player contact, that could get rid of 60% of concussions, plus that would reduce other injuries," said study co-author Sarah K. Fields, an associate professor of communication at the University of Colorado-Denver.

    If this becomes widespread there it'll only ensure that the US can never produce a mens team that can come close to winning the world cup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    I started playing footie when I was 10.

    I remember stupidly trying to head kick-outs, with a cold, damp winter ball....
    I remember seeing stars when I did!

    limiting headers for under-10's doesn't seem the most awful thing in the world.... remembering this is for very young children & people shouldnt overreact.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    theteal wrote: »
    Do kids that age play american football?

    If so, surely that's considerably worse for head trauma?

    Not really.... the one time I seen pee-wee football, the contact was pretty modest.

    Here's a breakdown on how they categorise children players.
    http://www.popwarner.com/football/footballstructure.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Corholio


    Is there anything that isn't potentially dangerous anymore.Every single sports seems to have some sort of negative side affect to it and it seems like pretty much every single food causes cancer these days.

    Surely if heading the ball was so dangerous there would be a huge amount of players from the past suffering because of it.

    I think studies have shown that every person have different amounts of protection regarding concussions etc, that's why some get it a lot and some not at all.

    Jeff Astle is probably the most famous recent case. He died at age 59 due to a degenerative brain disorder, and because of the way he played, it was almost certainly down to heading the ball. Due to the condition he died not knowing or realising that he was once a footballer. The doctor that treated him is on record as saying that if he hadn't known he was 59, he would have said he was in his 90's due to the condition of his brain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭AllGunsBlazing


    In games where it was raining Astle would have been practically heading a medicine ball. The newer ones are more akin to a plastic bag caught on breeze.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    There should be no heading for any players age 10 and under, while heading should be limited only to practice for those ages 11 to 13.

    Totally fine with that, tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Corholio wrote: »
    I think studies have shown that every person have different amounts of protection regarding concussions etc, that's why some get it a lot and some not at all.

    Jeff Astle is probably the most famous recent case. He died at age 59 due to a degenerative brain disorder, and because of the way he played, it was almost certainly down to heading the ball. Due to the condition he died not knowing or realising that he was once a footballer. The doctor that treated him is on record as saying that if he hadn't known he was 59, he would have said he was in his 90's due to the condition of his brain.

    But he seems to be the only player that's been affected.Surely a lot of players of his generation would have been negatively affected as well if it was overall that dangerous a thing to be doing.He seems like an isolated case.

    As the poster above says the balls them days when wet would have been incredibly heavy which is not the case these days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭sReq | uTeK


    I think its a great Idea, at a certain age children should be protected. I believe when you hit your later teenage years, 16+ you're probably more developed.

    Balls these days are a lot less nasty than olden days, that said I purposely avoid heading the ball as I had a detached retina due to being hit face on with a ball 3 years ago.

    Another reason I think its a great idea is ultimately it will teach children that football "SHOULD" be played on the floor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,948 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    I'm fine with it. We had this discussion recently on the soccer coaching forum. The technique of heading can still be taught using a light ball or a foam ball so they know the technique and how to head a ball safely when the time comes.

    There shouldn't be too many opportunities at underage level and small sided games to actually head the ball if you're doing it right.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    But he seems to be the only player that's been affected.Surely a lot of players of his generation would have been negatively affected as well if it was overall that dangerous a thing to be doing.He seems like an isolated case.

    As the poster above says the balls them days when wet would have been incredibly heavy which is not the case these days.

    He's not, he's just the most famous. My uncle was an international and played old division 1. He has rapid onset dementia before the age of 60. I'm sure there's loads.

    As I said before just because it's modern doesn't mean it's perfect. I still play a bit of 11 a side and see stars / have a headache on a long ball.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,024 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Quite an odd one.

    Yeah, you can talk about practicing heading in training, but lets be realistic, those sessions will be few and far between. There are just too many individual things to practice in training, so an aspect of the game that's not applicable for several years will be left behind. Largely i'd say they'll have a session or two on the basics, and that'll be it until they hit 13/14. We all know how it goes, most of your ability and experience comes from training matches and proper games. Even the best training sessions only give you the basis of a technique, and it's doing it over and over again in matches that make you good at it.

    Surely it would have made more sense to just use a lighter ball?

    Would imagine it'll impact their players down the line too.

    While perhaps there will be a potential benefit to playing the ball on the ground more, I'm not sure that will compensate for the things they'll be lacking. Crossing, headed layoffs, defending etc these kids will all be years behind their International counterparts. Being 14 by the time you can actually play the whole game is a bit nuts when you look at 16 and 17 year olds now being potential first teamers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,403 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    theteal wrote: »
    Do kids that age play american football?

    If so, surely that's considerably worse for head trauma?

    Huge debate about American Football rules ongoing at all levels at present over the issue of head trauma / concussions...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭Ferris_Bueller


    When I was younger a team mate of mine headed a ball that was dropping from a height and he hit the ground unconscious, had to get subbed off, definitely not good for the young lad! No heading until a certain age doesn't seem like a terrible idea tbh, although surely they will have to incorporate it at a certain age level rather than ban it completely until senior level.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    When I was younger a team mate of mine headed a ball that was dropping from a height and he hit the ground unconscious, had to get subbed off, definitely not good for the young lad! No heading until a certain age doesn't seem like a terrible idea tbh, although surely they will have to incorporate it at a certain age level rather than ban it completely until senior level.

    They'll basically have to ban any sort of contact sport full stop if heading is banned in soccer at any sort of decent level.

    I've just read of a baseball player who died of CTE because he threw himself around the field a lot trying to catch the ball.

    Seems like it's just one of those risk associated with living life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,184 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    It's not such a bad idea however it's probably not required since the introduction of specific football weight for each age group at the start of this season. (<8 290gms; <11 320gms; <u14 370 gms - all size 5)

    If you haven't read the fai player development plan then I would suggest doing so, it's good to see practical process being implemented.



    Edit: link.... http://www.fai.ie/domestic/player-development-plan/player-development-plan-presented-to-fai-agm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    They'll basically have to ban any sort of contact sport full stop if heading is banned in soccer at any sort of decent level.

    u-10 is not a 'decent level' though.... this is about small children.

    Heading would continue as normal for older US children.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭tastyt


    A load of bollocks if you ask me. Talk about the world gone soft and wrapping kids up in cotton wool. The balls now are lighter than ever. The sport is gradually moving to being a total non contact game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,881 ✭✭✭bohsman


    Saw a clip about this on CNN last week, womens football is massive in America, as well as heading being bad for everyone up to age 13 or so due to skull still developing girls tend to be weaker too putting more pressure on neck etc too.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,546 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    tastyt wrote: »
    A load of bollocks if you ask me. Talk about the world gone soft and wrapping kids up in cotton wool. The balls now are lighter than ever. The sport is gradually moving to being a total non contact game.

    It's called progression. Years ago society thought it was ok to send kids to work in mines.

    Aged under 10 I think it makes sense that their neck muscles, vertebrae and brain tissue are still developing.

    Its nothing to do with being tough as it's about preventing unseen damage that can occur at the time and cause problems in later life.

    Also, won't cause sport to become non contact as heading is not part of the 'contact' side of the game.

    Once they are over 10 they can start heading as normal so I don't see the issue with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Like others, I remember getting headaches and dizziness during soccer blitzes. I think this is a good idea tbh. They may still get concussed via other means but why not reduce the risks wherever practical?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Corholio


    But he seems to be the only player that's been affected.Surely a lot of players of his generation would have been negatively affected as well if it was overall that dangerous a thing to be doing.He seems like an isolated case.

    As the poster above says the balls them days when wet would have been incredibly heavy which is not the case these days.

    In fairness he's the only the most famous player that's been highlighted. There's a story about the doctor that treated Astle that he had a former player coming to him with similar symptoms and it seems there is plenty of former players who are now suffering from such degenerative diseases but they just haven't linked football to it yet because it can be a natural occurrence in a lot of older people anyway.

    I just don't think we know the full extent of the damage that heading has caused players. The barstool opinion of 'the game's gone too soft etc' is misguided imo, why not save potential future injury when possible? Also the actual science to fully test it doesn't seem to be focused on what's needed, but any reports that have been done have pretty much all shown brain abnormalities and damage to white matter tracts in the brain. It's also interesting to note that a kid from the age of 6 onwards has developed 90% of the size of their future adult head but their necks are nowhere near developed, causing more impact than it should be put through.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    5starpool wrote: »
    It'll be a non contact sport there soon judging by this.

    so they're saying if you collide less, you get less collisions. Really? That's a research finding?

    It's preposterous to try minimise player-to-player contact.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭FatherTed


    It's for U-10 which is a good idea. Kids' brains/skull/neck are still developing and simply do not have the same strength of an adult. Plus realistically at that age most of the play is on the ground anyway. It's a lazy argument to say it's bollocks or the world's gone soft. Concussion is a serious issue and does need to be properly addressed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,024 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    u-10 it doesn't bother me, but its still illegal in games up to 13. Between 10 and 13 they're allowed to practice it in training, but since its not part of the game they'll actually be playing on the field, it's effectively something they won't do until 13 or 14.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Any specifics of how they implement the ban in an actual game?
    Will it be like handball with the referee distinguishing between accidental/deliberate.
    If a centre half just heads it clear from a near post corner then what happens? If a keeper throws himself Schmeichal style at an incoming forwards shot and he happens to save it with his head is that OK?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭ch750536


    Badly trained kids close their eyes, head down and run in the direction of the ball. You only need 2 kids to do this at the same time for disaster.

    I'm all for banning headers till U12. We have to protect kids.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    This is just to stop head to head collisions really which should be avoided at a young age :)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They should ban head the balls first...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭clever user name


    Played center half from under 11's until I was 26. I certainly wasn't the tallest center half but I was good in the air. Every game I headed high balls 10-15 times...but I never got dizzy, never had blurred vision, never got headaches and never felt an ill affects. Once or twice if I caught a long goal kick perfectly on my head it would hurt for a second, but that's it. So like someone said above, seems to be a very subjective thing.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1024/826344-heading/
    Research shows heading footballs affects brain

    New research into heading a football has identified "significant" changes in brain function from routine practice.

    The study from the University of Stirling is the first to detect direct changes after players are exposed to everyday head impacts, as opposed to clinical brain injuries like concussion.

    The findings come after concerns that players' brains are damaged by repeated head impacts.

    World Cup winner George Cohen has called for the game to tackle the issue of head injuries, saying old-style leather footballs were "nasty".

    Former England and West Brom striker Jeff Astle died in 2002 at the age of 59, suffering from early on-set dementia which a coroner found was caused by heading footballs and gave the cause of death as "industrial disease".

    A subsequent re-examination of Astle's brain found he was suffering from the neuro-degenerative brain disease Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy.

    CTE can only be established following death and it has also been found in deceased American footballers, boxers and rugby players.

    Astle's daughter Dawn has been campaigning for more research into the matter and was told by the Football Association and the Professional Footballers' Association in late 2014 that they were talking to FIFA.

    Now researchers have tested a group of 19 footballers by making them head a ball 20 times.

    The ball was fired from a machine designed to simulate the pace and power of a corner and scientists tested players' brain function and memory before and immediately after the heading sessions. They were also tested after 24 hours, 48 hours and two weeks.

    Increased inhibition in the brain was detected after just a single session of heading. Memory test performance was also reduced between 41 and 67%, with effects normalising within 24 hours.

    Whether the changes to the brain remain temporary after repeated exposure to a football and the long-term consequences of heading on brain health, are yet to be investigated.

    Cognitive neuroscientist Dr Magdalena Ietswaart said: "In light of growing concern about the effects of contact sport on brain health, we wanted to see if our brain reacts instantly to heading a football.

    "Using a drill most amateur and professional teams would be familiar with, we found there was in fact increased inhibition in the brain immediately after heading and that performance on memory tests was reduced significantly.

    "Although the changes were temporary, we believe they are significant to brain health, particularly if they happen over and over again as they do in football heading.

    "With large numbers of people around the world participating in this sport, it is important that they are aware of what is happening inside the brain and the lasting effect this may have."

    Dr Angus Hunter, from the Faculty of Health Sciences and Sport, added: "For the first time, sporting bodies and members of the public can see clear evidence of the risks associated with repetitive impact caused by heading a football.

    "We hope these findings will open up new approaches for detecting, monitoring and preventing cumulative brain injuries in sport.

    "We need to safeguard the long term health of football players at all levels, as well as individuals involved in other contact sports."

    Ms Astle told the Mail on Sunday: "Would I be surprised if damaging effects of heading are found? No. The question is: what are they doing to do about it? What are the authorities going to do to protect our children?"

    Cohen told the Daily Telegraph in June: "You felt sick sometimes when it hit you. They started out at 14 to 16 ounces but, with rain, they were two or three pounds.

    "Even if it hit you on the side of the head, a graze, it was really uncomfortable. Those early balls were really rather nasty.

    "I remember sometimes being in a wall defending a free-kick and you have got to stand there.

    "Some players put their head in the way. I never moved out of the way but I always thought, 'This is going to bloody well hurt'.

    "You are protected by your skull but what happens is (the brain) wobbles from side to side. And if the ball hit you from the sky when you were still on the ground, the feeling would go right through to your feet."

    I was sceptical before but it will be interesting to see how this issue developes.

    In some ways I'd worry as well for the future of a lot of sports with any physical contact because there seems to be very few where there isn't some long term damage caused by them particularly considering how health and safety conscious the world has become.

    Still people are probably far better off to enjoy the game and think that they could be run down by a car tomorrow so why really worry too much about a chance of long term damage.

    You take heading out of the game and it takes away an awful lot from it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,719 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    with all the other real dangers in life to the young - drugs, obese eating , fast food and excessive sugar , obsessive online gaming , lack of exercise - somehow playing football in any form , like previous generations is a lot healthier , than the nanny state world of today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    There is new guidelines and directions in place even here now. I know from my local youth team, along with my nephews team, they are using different balls through the age groups. They are lighter and get gradually heavier.

    When I first went 11 aside, you were playing with a full size ball end off.

    I gather the issue is more with the potential clash of heads rather than the actual ball itself. But for **** sake, it's a contact sport. What next, boxers can't throw punches? Another sign the cotton wool brigade are being pandered too instead of having their issues noted and then told politely that fundamental rules of the game will not be changed.

    Jesus have you seen the balls used now? They are like balloons.

    I'd be fine with it at the likes of 7aside and kids at that age, where the developement should be more focused on technical and passing and the likes, but once the age goes up a bit, and once kids move into the likes of eleven aside it needs to be there. It's a skill and part of the game, something to be coached properly so kids dont jump with their eyes closed. Like its just part of the game, could you imagine what the game would be like if people couldn't head the ball. wtf is that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Corholio


    I don't think it's right to use this as a nanny state criticism imo, there's plenty of other things far above it. Heading in football is yet to be fully realised consequence imo, I don't think we can categorically state either way and the stuides of head injuries in other sports always leave big gaps for those that died of possible or probable consequence of it, but they just could not be legally proved as that. You don't have to have side effects to have long term damage, this is the way with so many injuries. I think a lot of the 'toughen you up' or 'worlds gone soft' etc still exists to the detriment of medical opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Corholio wrote: »
    I don't think it's right to use this as a nanny state criticism imo, there's plenty of other things far above it. Heading in football is yet to be fully realised consequence imo, I don't think we can categorically state either way and the stuides of head injuries in other sports always leave big gaps for those that died of possible or probable consequence of it, but they just could not be legally proved as that. You don't have to have side effects to have long term damage, this is the way with so many injuries. I think a lot of the 'toughen you up' or 'worlds gone soft' etc still exists to the detriment of medical opinion.

    Football has taken some proactive steps though, which I don't believe has been the case in other sports.

    There is a different weight balls used through the age groups. And just look at the balls used today.

    Looking at patterns and retired proffesionals who played in the 70's,80's or even 90's is not relevant as its a different state of affairs and parameters.

    The proper realisation and analysis probably won't happen until the current generation have retired for a period, so at least another what, 20 years?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,630 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    TheDoc wrote: »
    I gather the issue is more with the potential clash of heads rather than the actual ball itself. But for **** sake, it's a contact sport. What next, boxers can't throw punches? Another sign the cotton wool brigade are being pandered too instead of having their issues noted and then told politely that fundamental rules of the game will not be changed.

    Jesus have you seen the balls used now? They are like balloons.

    I'd be fine with it at the likes of 7aside and kids at that age, where the developement should be more focused on technical and passing and the likes, but once the age goes up a bit, and once kids move into the likes of eleven aside it needs to be there. It's a skill and part of the game, something to be coached properly so kids dont jump with their eyes closed. Like its just part of the game, could you imagine what the game would be like if people couldn't head the ball. wtf is that?

    I don't agree. Only in the past decade have we started to truly grasp the dangers associated with impacts on the head. You're talking in serious cases about memory loss, vision issues, daily headaches, and seemingly an increased susceptibility to diseases like Alzheimer's. And that's not even getting into the mental issues like depression, personality changes, e.g. anger issues, and, in serious cases, suicidal thoughts.

    These are serious matters and shouldn't be dismissed with macho bravado, 'man up and get on with it', 'don't be wimps' etc. If we care about the men and women that play the game then we shouldn't shrug out shoulders about the prospect of these people struggling to remember their kid's birthdays in twenty year's time. Consider the case of Gary Speed who took his own life. Consider Clark Carlisle's suicide attempt. Did damage to the brain increased the likelihood of Speed's suicide, and Carlisle's attempted suicide? One suspects there are already studies under way looking at the effect of wear and tear on the brain and how it relates to the psychological status of sportspersons.

    If lighter footballs are required, or some form of Petr Cech-style head protection to minimize the jarring effect on the head, then these ideas shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. I think as a society we are going to be in for a very rude awakening as ways of assessing the brain improve and advance in the coming years. I think there's going to be some very troubling findings on the way which will pose serious questions for sports like football, rugby, rugby league, boxing, MMA etc. I just hope football is mature enough to put the welfare of players at the top of its priorities.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    I don't agree. Only in the past decade have we started to truly grasp the dangers associated with impacts on the head. You're talking in serious cases about memory loss, vision issues, daily headaches, and seemingly an increased susceptibility to diseases like Alzheimer's. And that's not even getting into the mental issues like depression, personality changes, e.g. anger issues, and, in serious cases, suicidal thoughts.

    These are serious matters and shouldn't be dismissed with macho bravado, 'man up and get on with it', 'don't be wimps' etc. If we care about the men and women that play the game then we shouldn't shrug out shoulders about the prospect of these people struggling to remember their kid's birthdays in twenty year's time. Consider the case of Gary Speed who took his own life. Consider Clark Carlisle's suicide attempt. Did damage to the brain increased the likelihood of Speed's suicide, and Carlisle's attempted suicide? One suspects there are already studies under way looking at the effect of wear and tear on the brain and how it relates to the psychological status of sportspersons.

    If lighter footballs are required, or some form of Petr Cech-style head protection to minimize the jarring effect on the head, then these ideas shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. I think as a society we are going to be in for a very rude awakening as ways of assessing the brain improve and advance in the coming years. I think there's going to be some very troubling findings on the way which will pose serious questions for sports like football, rugby, rugby league, boxing, MMA etc. I just hope football is mature enough to put the welfare of players at the top of its priorities.


    That makes no difference.

    Headgear like that just stops the affect on the outside i.e stopping a cracked skull or a cut but your skull is like a jar , the jar moves and your brain rattles around inside that is what is causing the damage.

    They really need to get footballers (including ones who have had no issues) to donate their brains after they die and see if there is any significant damage above what is expected, if only the brains of people who have had issues with their brain get donated then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and you will never know the true extent of the affect.

    I believe there are a number of england squad from the 1966 world cup who have have alzheimers but that may have happened regardless.

    You would think this issue would be much bigger and have been spotted an awful lot sooner considering how many people have played football (at various levels) throughout the world but there could be an awful lot of sports futures at risk in the future with greater medical knowledge being available now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 242 ✭✭RainMakerToo


    5starpool wrote: »
    If this becomes widespread there it'll only ensure that the US can never produce a mens team that can come close to winning the world cup.

    They'll call it soccer-football and start their own world series :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 785 ✭✭✭ILikeBananas


    I played 11-a-side for 4 or 5 years in my twenties at a fairly low level but I used to hate it if I was put in a position where I had to head a ball coming from a height (like a kick out). In my case, I had this instinctive reaction where at the last second I'd turn my face down away from the ball and it'd hit be right on top of the head instead of on the forehead. My head would be ringing after it and I'd often have a headache the next day. Try as I might, I was never able to head it with my forehead and instead used to go out of my way to avoid having to head the ball. It was one of the main reasons why I always preferred 5-a-sides to 11-a-side.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/29/pfa-urges-fa-consider-ban-heading-children-10/

    PFA urges FA to consider ban on heading for children under 10

    By Jeremy Wilson, deputy football correspondent
    29 DECEMBER 2016 • 8:32PM

    The Professional Footballers’ Association has called on the game’s authorities to consider a ban on heading for children aged under 10, The Telegraph can reveal.

    It follows guidelines in the United States that now prevent young children from heading the ball, a new study by the University of Stirling that indicated memory impairment after heading the ball and what experts have called the “frightening” anecdotal evidence of former players suffering with serious brain conditions.

    The Scottish Youth Football Association has promised to review its guidelines “urgently” and, asked whether football generally should follow, PFA chief executive Gordon Taylor told The Telegraph: “I think that has to be a serious consideration. It is not a knee-jerk reaction. It would be a considered reaction bearing in mind evidence that has been coming through from different sports and to a limited extent in football.

    “It would be a statement that might encourage a greater attention to this issue with regard to developed adults. There have been rule changes for youngsters about pitches they play on, about the numbers in the game, about whether or not girls should be involved with boys and up to what age. It is very much in line with that. We don’t want to put off the next generation but we need to be very mindful. The game needs to have a duty of care to all its participants.”

    The Stirling study reported a reduction in memory performance of 41-67 per cent in the 24 hours after players headed a football 20 times that was delivered with the pace and power of a corner kick. Memory function did return to normal 24 hours later but, with many former footballers being diagnosed with brain conditions in later life, the call for urgent and more detailed research has grown ever louder.

    Jeff Astle of West Brom and England died from a degenerative brain disease caused by the constant heading of a wet leather football throughout his 20-year professional career.

    Dr Willie Stewart collaborated on the research and, even after previously diagnosing chronic traumatic encephalopathy in England striker Jeff Astle, was amazed by the results. “It stunned me that just a single session of practice – nothing untoward, nothing out of the ordinary – could produce that immediate change,” he told The Telegraph.

    “It was such a trivial insult [blow]. I did not expect to see any real changes to the brain. My jaw hit the table when I looked at the results and realised that, actually, what we were presenting was that a single session of heading practice changes the brain function measured by electrical tests and from the point of view of how memory operates.”

    Stewart stressed that function did return to normal within a day and that the research in itself cannot be used to make specific recommendations about children.

    “This research doesn’t talk about young brains,” he said. “I think that is a decision to make in the sport. Personally I think it is probably not a good idea to be exposing young brains. It’s just a gut feeling.”

    Stewart then drew a striking comparison. “If I put boxing gloves on my hands, went into a school and offered to bang the kids around the head with the same force as a football, I would be locked up. If I take a football in and did the same thing, I would be appointed coach.

    Guidelines in the US prevent young children from heading the ball
    “Boxing has decided to protect the kids’ brains from head impacts up to a certain age and introduce it gradually. There is no science behind it; that is based on what seems to be common sense.”

    The Telegraph reported in May how campaigners were outraged by the lack of action and, while the FA and PFA did again pledge to look into research, they have still offered no timescale and little specific detail on what will be done.

    The FA and PFA first promised a joint study in 2002 when Astle’s inquest – and Stewart’s diagnosis – confirmed that his death was caused by playing football. The Astle family continue to wait for answers. “It is good to have this new research but it is disappointing that it is still not coming from the football authorities,” said Dawn Astle, Jeff’s daughter. “The PFA should be screaming from the rooftops for these players.


    US Soccer's heading mandate

    ⦁ Due to a settlement of a lawsuit US Soccer has issued a mandate on heading the ball in training and competition.
    ⦁ This mandate applies to players 12 years old and younger.
    ⦁ The effective date is January 1st 2016.
    ⦁ Players 10 years old or younger cannot be taught the skill of heading.
    ⦁ Players 10 years old or younger cannot intentionally head the ball in a competitive game.
    ⦁ Players who are 11 and 12 years old can receive heading instruction in training, but training is limited to 30 minutes per week. They can head the ball in competition
    ⦁ An indirect free kick for 10 year olds or younger
    ⦁ An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player deliberately heads the ball on the field.
    ⦁ The indirect free kick will occur at the point of the infraction.

    “As a mum, my instant reaction to the Stirling research was, if my son or daughter is sitting an exam on Friday and had football training on the Thursday night, I would say, ‘no heading’. That jumps out at me and it seems like common sense.”

    Taylor said the PFA was working with the FA, the Drake Foundation, an organisation that undertakes research into sports-related concussion, and other sports. “It’s about grasping the nettle and having a comprehensive research team establish some facts,” he said. “It’s not just a question of talking about it – it is a question of doing it.”

    In response to the Stirling research, the FA said: “This study gives an interesting insight into the short-term effects of heading the ball. The FA is committed to researching and examining areas of head injuries in football. We are assessing research projects in this area.”

    Very worrying stuff particularly when you see the number of England's 1966 team that are affected.Sad for so many legends not to have their memories of their great careers.

    It's really shameful nothing was done about this back when Jeff Astle died.I remember the story at the time and it was always in the back of my head but I was somewhat skeptical of the ban in US soccer as I thought with the game being so big any affect would have been caught long before.It's really shameful the FA never followed up on it properly and I'd expect any investigation and research even slightly linked with any professional footballing body will not be done properly for fear of what they might find out. There should be a thorough independent study of this being carried out.The whole thing makes sense in fairness as the thud of a football on your head is very similar to a punch and it's been known for years the dangers associated with boxing.


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