Possible 6 Nations Team?

macanbhaird

I know it's a bit early and the focus is more on the European Rugby Champions Cup (or whatever the f*@? it's called) and the Pro 12....
... and we're literally just over the RWC...
... but...

...what about??...


15: Zebo
14: Trimble
13: Henshaw
12: McCloskey
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Sexton
9: Murray

1: Jack McGrath
2: Strauss
3: Marty Moore
4: Henderson
5: Donncha Ryan
6: CJ Stander/ Ruddock
7: Sean O' Brien
8: Heaslip


16: Cian Healy
17: Sean Cronin
18: Mike Ross
19: Devin Toner
20: Chris Henry
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Ian Madigan
23: Stuart Olding


I like Best when he's on form and he really leads from the front but in fairness I'd like to see Strauss start. Good enough poaching ability and offers better running and offloading game.

Jack and Moore doing their thing.

Donncha Ryan hopefully filling a Paulie shaped hole. (attempting anyway)

I think Stander and Hendo would be great at breaking tackles, drawing players and threatening the gain line and could potentially open up the game a little more for Seanie.

Murray and Sexton obviously.

McCluskey's a big imposing 12 - draws caution and numbers as well.
And I think it's about time that Henshaw started rocking the 13. Defensively Henshaw'd be all over it and I think he would ultimately bring a decent level of intelligence to the position as well.

I really like Rob Kearney but Zebo is better. Not as natural a catcher but creatively outshines him. And he's no slouch either. I think he wins out.
Luke Fitz looks dangerous lately - hard not to include him
And balance all that up with Trimble on the other wing, I think you have a very potent back line.

Bring on Healy, Cronin and Toner early in the 2nd Half as dynamic impact subs.

Reddan and Olding to fire things up a bit. Olding's got something special as well as having that crucial ability to cover a number of positions.

Madigan over Jackson and Keatley.

Mike Ross to shore up the scrum at the end.

Chris Henry has got some moves. Good ground game. Good offload game. Good tackle count. Good work-rate. All round good game.

Probably like to see Matt Healy from Connacht get a run out at some stage just to blood him with the big boys a bit. See if he can step up to the next level.

aimee1

Given the seedings issue for next rwc I dont think there will be too many unforced changes or much change of style for the 6n

Stan27

Really like that team, especially the centre partnership

molloyjh

We'll almost certainly see:

McGrath Best Ross
Toner Henderson
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Payne
Fitzgerald Kearney Trimble

Strauss, Healy, Moore, Ryan, Henry, Reddan, Madigan, Earls

Healy might start if he can refind his form.

If Payne doesn't get back or doesn't find form when he does we might see Luke move to 13 with Earls coming in to the left wing and Zebo to 23.

Cronin could displace Strauss and PJ might displace Mads (unlikely).

Can't see (m)any change other than that. We need to do well to ensure our best seeding possible for the RWC 2019.

locum-motion

Oh, FFS!

It's early November!

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

We'll almost certainly see:

McGrath Best Ross
Toner Henderson
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Payne
Fitzgerald Kearney Trimble

Strauss, Healy, Moore, Ryan, Henry, Reddan, Madigan, Earls

Healy might start if he can refind his form.

If Payne doesn't get back or doesn't find form when he does we might see Luke move to 13 with Earls coming in to the left wing and Zebo to 23.

Cronin could displace Strauss and PJ might displace Mads (unlikely).

Can't see (m)any change other than that. We need to do well to ensure our best seeding possible for the RWC 2019.

I'd say this is much closer to reality. Stander may come into the reckoning though and I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face, if Payne isn't fit Cave should be 13, but alas that seems unlikely.

But yes I think Molloy has the most likely selection.

Oh and as we speak McCloskey isn't ready. He is clearly very effective but he makes little errors for Ulster that he just wouldn't get away with at test level. That's not to say he won't be ready in 3 months time but it would be unlike Joe to bring someone straight in without having them in camp first.

bilston

locum-motion wrote: »

Oh, FFS!

It's early November!

Yep, less than 7 weeks til Christmas!

McGrath Best Moore
Toner Henderson
Stander SOB Healip
Murray Sexton
Luke Fitz, Henshaw, Payne, Dave K
Rob K

Journeyman_1

I will weep if if our THs are still Ross/White when we have good young guys ready to step up. At least one of Moore/Furlong need to get that gametime imo, and it would be a real nod to the future tp stick both in.

Journeyman_1

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

I will weep if if our THs are still Ross/White when we have good young guys ready to step up. At least one of Moore/Furlong need to get that gametime imo, and it would be a real nod to the future tp stick both in.

Moore will be no.1 this 6n but imo Furlong is going to be an Irish Legend. His genetics and attitude are spot on for the future of international TH play.

case885

McGrath
Best
Ross
Toner
Henderson
Stander/Ruddock
O Brien
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Earls
Henshaw
Payne
Trimble
Kearney

Not a whole lot of change I'd imagine.

pickarooney

Seedings decided four years in advance? What the hell is that about? Will we never get a chance to experiment?

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Seedings decided four years in advance? What the hell is that about? Will we never get a chance to experiment?

The seedings were based on rankings from just under 3 years out from the 2015 RWC.

I think too much importance is put on the seedings though. The All Blacks were ranked number 1 in the world for the seedings, and they had to play seed 4 (France), seed 2 (SA) and seed 3 (Aus) in the knockouts.

On the flip side, Australia got seed 12 (Scotland) and seed 8 (Argentina) before the final. It's still extremely hit and miss.

I'd be all for Ireland experimenting now, but I reckon the main thing that will stop them won't be seedings for RWC, it will be that a third consecutive 6N title is on the line, so I'd expect a conservative approach.

molloyjh

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

I will weep if if our THs are still Ross/White when we have good young guys ready to step up. At least one of Moore/Furlong need to get that gametime imo, and it would be a real nod to the future tp stick both in.

But White was only there due to Moore being injured?

molloyjh

Also I don't ever want to see Stander line out for Ireland. It's one thing coming over here to play for a province and becoming IQ in the process. It's another to come over with the express purpose of playing for Ireland. He's not Irish, he had no links to Ireland and had no reason to want to play for Ireland other than the fact that he couldn't get the call-up at home and wanted to play international rugby for anyone who would take him. If he was given the chance to play for SA today I'm sure he'd be gone in a heartbeat and any other country that offered him the opportunity would have gotten his services. I don't want someone like that in an Irish jersey.

That he also plays in an area of the park where we have a good few home grown options doesn't help. POM, SOB, Heaslip, Ruddock and TOD should all get priority over him without any doubt. Developing guys like Murphy and Conan should also be far more important than giving a journeyman time. At least with Payne he's playing in a position of relative weakness for us. Even Strauss is playing in a position where the depth of home grown talent isn't great. Project players should be used to supplement the squad where there are gaps. There are no gaps in the back row.

macanbhaird

Yeah i forgot about Moore..
He'd definitely get in there ahead of Nathan White and might just nudge Ross out of the starting berth if he can.

molloyjh

macanbhaird wrote: »

Yeah i forgot about Moore..
He'd definitely get in there ahead of Nathan White and might just nudge Ross out of the starting berth if he can.

He's still coming back from injury himself so needs to start finding some form himself. Although he was starting to get back to his best at times against Scarlets.

macanbhaird

molloyjh wrote: »

Also I don't ever want to see Stander line out for Ireland. It's one thing coming over here to play for a province and becoming IQ in the process. It's another to come over with the express purpose of playing for Ireland. He's not Irish, he had no links to Ireland and had no reason to want to play for Ireland other than the fact that he couldn't get the call-up at home and wanted to play international rugby for anyone who would take him. If he was given the chance to play for SA today I'm sure he'd be gone in a heartbeat and any other country that offered him the opportunity would have gotten his services. I don't want someone like that in an Irish jersey.

That he also plays in an area of the park where we have a good few home grown options doesn't help. POM, SOB, Heaslip, Ruddock and TOD should all get priority over him without any doubt. Developing guys like Murphy and Conan should also be far more important than giving a journeyman time. At least with Payne he's playing in a position of relative weakness for us. Even Strauss is playing in a position where the depth of home grown talent isn't great. Project players should be used to supplement the squad where there are gaps. There are no gaps in the back row.

There is a part of me that wholeheartedly agrees with you... and then I look at the likes of England/ France and look at the foreign influence there and it makes me think.
SOB and Heaslip are in my lineup. POM and TOD are out injured. Murphy hasn't impressed on the big stage and Conan needs more consistent game time. I'll amend my lineup to account for a Ruddock/ Stander face off but I think Stander may win that matchup based on his consistency at game time.
I've pulled Payne from the centre in favour of Henshaw so feel I'm swapping one foreign influence for another

macanbhaird

bilston wrote: »

Oh and as we speak McCloskey isn't ready. He is clearly very effective but he makes little errors for Ulster that he just wouldn't get away with at test level. That's not to say he won't be ready in 3 months time but it would be unlike Joe to bring someone straight in without having them in camp first.

I'd imagine him getting a run out prior to 6N.
And I'd agree that he isn't quite ready - but look how much players have come on under the influence of Joe Schmidt.
Look at Trimble or Dave Kearney or Ruddock.
McCloskey could become a powerful weapon for Joe at 12

case885

molloyjh wrote:

Also I don't ever want to see Stander line out for Ireland. It's one thing coming over here to play for a province and becoming IQ in the process. It's another to come over with the express purpose of playing for Ireland. He's not Irish, he had no links to Ireland and had no reason to want to play for Ireland other than the fact that he couldn't get the call-up at home and wanted to play international rugby for anyone who would take him. If he was given the chance to play for SA today I'm sure he'd be gone in a heartbeat and any other country that offered him the opportunity would have gotten his services. I don't want someone like that in an Irish jersey.

molloyjh wrote:

That he also plays in an area of the park where we have a good few home grown options doesn't help. POM, SOB, Heaslip, Ruddock and TOD should all get priority over him without any doubt. Developing guys like Murphy and Conan should also be far more important than giving a journeyman time. At least with Payne he's playing in a position of relative weakness for us. Even Strauss is playing in a position where the depth of home grown talent isn't great. Project players should be used to supplement the squad where there are gaps. There are no gaps in the back row.

If Murphy and Conan are good enough there will be no worries of stander playing ahead of them, if not well then they'll have to up their game.
Stander is exactly what you want in a project player, he gives everything when he lines out for Munster and its great to see him as captain with POM away.
Anyway I guess Joe will be deciding if its morally wrong or not when he picks the next Ireland squad.

Scythica

McGrath Best Moore
Hendo Toner
SOB Heaslip Henry

Murray
Sexton
Gilroy McCloskey Henshaw Trimble/Earls

Payne

Healy
Cronin
Furlong
Ryan
Stander
Marmion / Hart / Wee P / Tomasso / Anyone younger than Reddan/Boss
Jackson / Madigan (depending on game plan)
Fitz / Zebo / Olding

Mixture between a bit of youth and more experienced. Cracking bench options I think, I'm sure people may disagree but heyoooo.

EDIT: Spend ages making it look like a rugby team lineout and it didnt save

Journeyman_1

molloyjh wrote: »

But White was only there due to Moore being injured?

Yep, I was just commenting on OP who would still have Ross/White for 6N.

former total

These threads always get blurred between what people want to see and what we can realistically expect to see.

I think the reality is that the team will be strikingly similar to the one that lined out at the world cup, allowing for injuries. Most likely we'll see Luke replacing Bowe with Earls and Dave K fighting it out for the other wing spot, Ruddock or Stander replacing POM and Moore replacing White.

I'd be very surprised to see wholesale changes.

aimee1

Basil3 wrote: »

The seedings were based on rankings from just under 3 years out from the 2015 RWC.

I think too much importance is put on the seedings though. The All Blacks were ranked number 1 in the world for the seedings, and they had to play seed 4 (France), seed 2 (SA) and seed 3 (Aus) in the knockouts.

On the flip side, Australia got seed 12 (Scotland) and seed 8 (Argentina) before the final. It's still extremely hit and miss.

I'd be all for Ireland experimenting now, but I reckon the main thing that will stop them won't be seedings for RWC, it will be that a third consecutive 6N title is on the line, so I'd expect a conservative approach.

The seedings determine the group draw which is important for ireland.

aimee1

Basil3 wrote: »

The seedings were based on rankings from just under 3 years out from the 2015 RWC.

I think too much importance is put on the seedings though. The All Blacks were ranked number 1 in the world for the seedings, and they had to play seed 4 (France), seed 2 (SA) and seed 3 (Aus) in the knockouts.

On the flip side, Australia got seed 12 (Scotland) and seed 8 (Argentina) before the final. It's still extremely hit and miss.

I'd be all for Ireland experimenting now, but I reckon the main thing that will stop them won't be seedings for RWC, it will be that a third consecutive 6N title is on the line, so I'd expect a conservative approach.

The seedings determine the group draw which is important for ireland.

aimee1

aimee1 wrote: »

The seedings determine the group draw which is important for ireland.

Maybe so, but if you can't make it out of your group, then you'll never be a contender. The reality is that rankings change so much between the draw being done and the event, so it really doesn't matter where you are in the top 8.

As we know, the group draw is the least of Ireland's worries, it's the knockout phase that is the weak point.

RedemptionZ

aimee1 wrote: »

The seedings determine the group draw which is important for ireland.

That's still fairly hit and miss when you have seed 3 in the group of death and seed 2 in the easiest group.

former total

No matter what way you look at it, world ranking points in the next 12 months are absolutely critical.

Winning the 6N and a decent showing in South Africa could push us back into top 4, that would be massive and Joe will absolutely be targetting that.

We won't be seeing massive experimentation in the 6N, people should probably just make their peace with that now. You won't be seeing Olding, McCloskey and Gilroy without further injuries. Eoin Reddan will still be wearing the 21 jersey.

CJ Stander will be involved at some level, if his form keeps up; Joe won't really give a f**k about his motivations for being here.

Clearlier

Scythica wrote: »

McGrath Best Moore
Hendo Toner
SOB Heaslip Henry

Murray
Sexton
Gilroy McCloskey Henshaw Trimble/Earls

Payne

Healy
Cronin
Furlong
Ryan
Stander
Marmion / Hart / Wee P / Tomasso / Anyone younger than Reddan/Boss
Jackson / Madigan (depending on game plan)
Fitz / Zebo / Olding

Mixture between a bit of youth and more experienced. Cracking bench options I think, I'm sure people may disagree but heyoooo.

EDIT: Spend ages making it look like a rugby team lineout and it didnt save

Is Gilroy even first choice at Ulster yet? Also, I really like Olding but he hasn't returned to play yet after a 2nd ACL operation in two years and despite reports that there would be an update at the end of October I'm not aware of any actual update being made. It's a bit premature to think that he will be involved in the 6 nations squad.

irishbucsfan

Basil3 wrote: »

Maybe so, but if you can't make it out of your group, then you'll never be a contender. The reality is that rankings change so much between the draw being done and the event, so it really doesn't matter where you are in the top 8.

As we know, the group draw is the least of Ireland's worries, it's the knockout phase that is the weak point.

No, making the top 4 is a huge advantage over being 5th-8th. It's going to our secondary goal next season outside of the annual grand slam attempt.

kuang1

Basil3 wrote: »

Maybe so, but if you can't make it out of your group, then you'll never be a contender. The reality is that rankings change so much between the draw being done and the event, so it really doesn't matter where you are in the top 8.

As we know, the group draw is the least of Ireland's worries, it's the knockout phase that is the weak point.

Well look at those who qualified for the QFs this WC as runners up in their group...

France
Argentina
Scotland
Wales

Even though for 2 world cups in a row we've won our group from the 2nd seed position and failed to beat a runner-up from another group in the QF, this is still the preferred route to a semi.

So it's daft to totally dismiss the relevance of world rankings when it comes to making the draw for WC groups.

If we could somehow rank ourselves in the top 4 at that moment in time it would only be a good thing. (Note: I said IF)

When will that be done for Japan '19 btw? Or is it yet to be decided.