Possible 6 Nations Team?

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, making the top 4 is a huge advantage over being 5th-8th. It's going to our secondary goal next season outside of the annual grand slam attempt.

kuang1 wrote: »

Well look at those who qualified for the QFs this WC as runners up in their group...

France
Argentina
Scotland
Wales

Even though for 2 world cups in a row we've won our group from the 2nd seed position and failed to beat a runner-up from another group in the QF, this is still the preferred route to a semi.

So it's daft to totally dismiss the relevance of world rankings when it comes to making the draw for WC groups.

If we could somehow rank ourselves in the top 4 at that moment in time it would only be a good thing. (Note: I said IF)

When will that be done for Japan '19 btw? Or is it yet to be decided.

I think they're going to try to get it closer to the event this time.

The point I was making is that going for the 3rd straight 6N is far and away the greater motivator than IRB rankings. Ireland got a dream draw for the last RWC (with lowest ranked team from Pot 1).

If Ireland do well in the 6N, the rankings will take care of themselves.

former total

kuang1 wrote: »

When will that be done for Japan '19 btw? Or is it yet to be decided.

It was suggested that it would be done closer to the event, but this has not been confirmed.

aimee1

former total wrote: »

It was suggested that it would be done closer to the event, but this has not been confirmed.

it will be done in 12 months time. The japanese requested it for ticket sales purposes because they have the olympics a year after the RWC.

aimee1

RedemptionZ wrote: »

That's still fairly hit and miss when you have seed 3 in the group of death and seed 2 in the easiest group.

A strong 2016 for ireland and we are say 4th next December, scotland have a good year but argentina have a disaster.

Group B - Ireland, Scotland, Fiji/Tonga, Canada, Uruguay/Hong Kong

It is unlikely but the stronger our year, the more favourable the draw COULD be

blackdog1

Personally can't see many changes for the 6 nations there is a 2 million pot up for grabs for that. He'll experiment on SA your definitely. Can see Mcloskey getting some game time on that as well as henshaw at fullback for a game. I'd also like to see olding make the tour if fit. Furlong will get game time because I think they see him as Ross's long term successor unless Marty can stay fit. We also badly need a younger sh to develop

aimee1

aimee1 wrote: »

A strong 2016 for ireland and we are say 4th next December, scotland have a good year but argentina have a disaster.

Group B - Ireland, Scotland, Fiji/Tonga, Canada, Uruguay/Hong Kong

It is unlikely but the stronger our year, the more favourable the draw COULD be

This is still only marginally better than what Ireland had this year. Let's say Argentina have a stinker next year, then come into form for the RWC, climb up to 5th in the world rankings, and Ireland lose form and drop to 8th in the world. Then Argentina and Ireland meet in the quarters again?

The reality is that if you top the group, you then have to play England/France/Wales/Argentina. If you don't, then you have to play NZ/Aus/SA. The group you get really doesn't mean too much, unless you're only aiming to make a semi.

Regardless, there's too much on the line for Schmidt to make wholesale changes and experiment, which is a shame.

aimee1

Basil3 wrote: »

This is still only marginally better than what Ireland had this year. Let's say Argentina have a stinker next year, then come into form for the RWC, climb up to 5th in the world rankings, and Ireland lose form and drop to 8th in the world. Then Argentina and Ireland meet in the quarters again?

The reality is that if you top the group, you then have to play England/France/Wales/Argentina. If you don't, then you have to play NZ/Aus/SA. The group you get really doesn't mean too much, unless you're only aiming to make a semi.

Regardless, there's too much on the line for Schmidt to make wholesale changes and experiment, which is a shame.

Yeah but wasting ourselves in the process of topping the group killed irelands qf chances

Wales lost 6-7 players in their group games and it cost them v the boks in the qf

aimee1

aimee1 wrote: »

Yeah but wasting ourselves in the process of topping the group killed irelands qf chances

Wales lost 6-7 players in their group games and it cost them v the boks in the qf

That's pure luck, just like the draw.

NZ and Australia both made it to the final with virtually no injuries. NZ had to play the same French side that Ireland did, without losing 5 players to suspension/injury. Aussie had to play the same sides as Wales, without suffering the same fate.

Noopti

If Stander continues his form (and I don't see any reason why that wouldn't happen) then he cannot be ignored. He is the form backrow in Ireland, if not player.

Yeah there are all the arguments about the IQ issue, but living in the real world, competing in a tough (and commercial, let's not forget) sport then you pick anyone the rules say you can, if they are the form player. Simple.

thomond2006

Noopti wrote: »

Yeah there are all the arguments about the IQ issue, but living in the real world, competing in a tough (and commercial, let's not forget) sport then you pick anyone the rules say you can, if they are the form player. Simple.

That's why it's up to World Rugby to change the rules. Five years minimum or parentage.

WarZ

Just thinking about the potential team and there's a real meh vibe to it. There's no real exciting young players to come in. Our backline is crying out for a fast elusive player and we just don't have it. Our backline is so mediocre past 9-10 it's not even funny.

sydthebeat

WarZ wrote: »

Just thinking about the potential team and there's a real meh vibe to it. There's no real exciting young players to come in. Our backline is crying out for a fast elusive player and we just don't have it. Our backline is so mediocre past 9-10 it's not even funny.

you could say the same about the other 5 6N teams though.

i think this will be henshaws tournament.. hes now a firm fixed senior player at this stage in his career, so i hope to see him flourish. he certainly has the attributes to be the next great centre... a mix of gerber and jauzion

WarZ

sydthebeat wrote: »

you could say the same about the other 5 6N teams though.

i think this will be henshaws tournament.. hes now a firm fixed senior player at this stage in his career, so i hope to see him flourish. he certainly has the attributes to be the next great centre... a mix of gerber and jauzion

Yeah I suppose you could say it's a bit of a meh tournament in general. Second tier compared to the 4 nations and the quality is well behind

I think it's a bit OTT to claim Henshaw is a mix between Gerber and Yauzion! At the moment he's closer to Roberts than either of those 2 and I can't see him improving beyond that.

sydthebeat

WarZ wrote: »

1. Yeah I suppose you could say it's a bit of a meh tournament in general. Second tier compared to the 4 nations and the quality is well behind

2. I think it's a bit OTT to claim Henshaw is a mix between Gerber and Yauzion! At the moment he's closer to Roberts than either of those 2 and I can't see him improving beyond that.

1. you might, i certainly wouldnt say that

2. Roberts.. the crash merchant?? ah come on.... Henshaw has a much more rounded game, as well as having Roberts power

kuang1

WarZ wrote: »

I think it's a bit OTT to claim Henshaw is a mix between Gerber and Yauzion! At the moment he's closer to Roberts than either of those 2 and I can't see him improving beyond that.

Why can't you see him improving beyond that?

Noopti

thomond2006 wrote: »

That's why it's up to World Rugby to change the rules. Five years minimum or parentage.

Yup. And up to Schmidt to pick the best players available to him.

WarZ

kuang1 wrote: »

Why can't you see him improving beyond that?

I just don't think he's that type of player. He can run good lines and is a strong runner but he doesn't strike me as an elusive centre or particularly skilful.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

Also I don't ever want to see Stander line out for Ireland. It's one thing coming over here to play for a province and becoming IQ in the process. It's another to come over with the express purpose of playing for Ireland. He's not Irish, he had no links to Ireland and had no reason to want to play for Ireland other than the fact that he couldn't get the call-up at home and wanted to play international rugby for anyone who would take him. If he was given the chance to play for SA today I'm sure he'd be gone in a heartbeat and any other country that offered him the opportunity would have gotten his services. I don't want someone like that in an Irish jersey.

For the record, Stander was called up to SA squad and he turned them down. Issue he had was that they wanted him to change his position to hooker as they thought he wasn't big enough to play backrow and he didn't want to do that.

That he also plays in an area of the park where we have a good few home grown options doesn't help. POM, SOB, Heaslip, Ruddock and TOD should all get priority over him without any doubt. Developing guys like Murphy and Conan should also be far more important than giving a journeyman time. At least with Payne he's playing in a position of relative weakness for us. Even Strauss is playing in a position where the depth of home grown talent isn't great. Project players should be used to supplement the squad where there are gaps. There are no gaps in the back row.

Remind me again what happened to Ireland v. Argentina when SOB & POM were missing from the backrow. We really don't have great depth there, particuarly players who provide leadership. Murphy is a journeyman and was out of his depth v. Argentina. Ruddock is always getting injured.

kuang1

WarZ wrote: »

I just don't think he's that type of player. He can run good lines and is a strong runner but he doesn't strike me as an elusive centre or particularly skilful.

Wouldn't like to be looking at the world wearing whatever type of glasses you do.

WarZ

kuang1 wrote: »

Wouldn't like to be looking at the world wearing whatever type of glasses you do.

It's called reality. I've no doubt Henshaw won't go on to become a Jauzion.

I've high hopes for Ringrose though

RichieRich89

What I'd like to see: 1. McGrath, 2. Best, 3. Ross, 4. Toner, 5. Ryan, 6. Henderson, 7. O'Brien, 8. Heaslip, 9. Murray, 10. Sexton, 11. Zebo, 12. McCloskey, 13. Cave, 14. Trimble, 15. Olding; 16. Cronin/Strauss, 17. Healy, 18. Furlong, 19. Ruddock, 20. Henry, 21. Reddan, 22. Jackson, 23. Henshaw/Fitzgerald

What I think we might see: McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Henderson, Ruddock, O'Brien, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, R. Kearney; Strauss, Healy, Moore, Ryan, Henry, Reddan, Madigan, D. Kearney

edit: forgot Earls. He'd be in contention for 11, 14 and 23

Stan27

1 McGrath/ Healy (like to see Buckley get capped be deserves it)
2 best
3 Moore
4/5 Henderson toner.
6 o brien
7 van Der flier
8 stander
9 Murray (marmian on the bench)
10 sexton
12/13 mccloskey / henshaw
11/14 futzgerald/ earls
15 toh/ payne

pickarooney

I had no idea van der Flier was Irish until just now!

vienne86

Stan27 wrote: »

1 McGrath/ Healy (like to see Buckley get capped be deserves it)
2 best
3 Moore
4/5 Henderson toner.
6 o brien
7 van Der flier
8 stander
9 Murray (marmian on the bench)
10 sexton
12/13 mccloskey / henshaw
11/14 futzgerald/ earls
15 toh/ payne

Hmm. I still prefer Henderson in teh back row, and I don't think we'll see Van der Flier in just yet!

Stan27

vienne86 wrote: »

Hmm. I still prefer Henderson in teh back row, and I don't think we'll see Van der Flier in just yet!

Re Henderson I think put him in the second row, we don't have many, and we have lots of back rows.
Yes but more of a natural 7 maybe

molloyjh

kuang1 wrote: »

Wouldn't like to be looking at the world wearing whatever type of glasses you do.

They're not glasses, they're goggles. Slow motion goggles to be precise.

Stan27

So many injurys will be interesting to see the team now

bilston

Still 4 rounds left in Europe (5 for Ulster) and a couple of big Inter Pros as well so plenty of rugby to go but right now I'd be thinking the following (not necessarily what I think Joe will pick).

15 Kearney
14 Fitzgerald
13 Henshaw
12 McCloskey
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Ryan
5 Toner
6 Ruddock
7 O'Brien
8 Heaslip

16 Strauss, 17 Healy, 18 Moore, 19 Foley, 20 Henry, 21 McGrath, 22 Jackson, 23 Zebo

I'll be honest I'm a bit fearful for our chances this season. I hope I'm wrong but I think we could finish 3rd or 4th.

bilston

Still 4 rounds left in Europe (5 for Ulster) and a couple of big Inter Pros as well so plenty of rugby to go but right now I'd be thinking the following (not necessarily what I think Joe will pick).

15 Kearney
14 Fitzgerald
13 Henshaw
12 McCloskey
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Ryan
5 Toner
6 Ruddock
7 O'Brien
8 Heaslip

16 Strauss, 17 Healy, 18 Moore, 19 Foley, 20 Henry, 21 McGrath, 22 Madigan, 23 Zebo

I think Schmidt will pick Earls at 13 with either D.Kearney or Zebo on the wing. I would also expect Madigan on the bench over PJ. An in form Healy would start at LH. Stander could feature too.

I'll be honest I'm a bit fearful for our chances this season. I hope I'm wrong but I think we could finish 3rd or 4th.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

Still 4 rounds left in Europe (5 for Ulster) and a couple of big Inter Pros as well so plenty of rugby to go but right now I'd be thinking the following (not necessarily what I think Joe will pick).

15 Kearney
14 Fitzgerald
13 Henshaw
12 McCloskey
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Ryan
5 Toner
6 Ruddock
7 O'Brien
8 Heaslip

16 Strauss, 17 Healy, 18 Moore, 19 Foley, 20 Henry, 21 McGrath, 22 Madigan, 23 Zebo

I think Schmidt will pick Earls at 13 with either D.Kearney or Zebo on the wing. I would also expect Madigan on the bench over PJ. An in form Healy would start at LH. Stander could feature too.

I'll be honest I'm a bit fearful for our chances this season. I hope I'm wrong but I think we could finish 3rd or 4th.

Injuries are going to be hugely problematic for us this season. I don't think Seanie is going to be fit. I'm fairly worried about that inner ear thing tbh. It could see him out for a while. Mike Ross looks to have fallen behind Moore and Furlong at Leinster, and if that's the case I can't see him starting for Ireland. I also don't see Earls getting named at 13 at all. I have McGrath as replacement SH, but I'm not convinced he'll get the nod there. Might we see Marmion at 21 instead? I think we might be looking at something like:

McGrath Best Moore
Ryan Toner
Ruddock Heaslip Henry

Murray Sexton
Fitzgerald Henshaw
Earls Kearney Trimble

Cronin, Healy, Furlong, Foley, Murphy, McGrath, Madigan, Zebo