Making me agree to rent increase in advance?

aviator7

Hi all, just looking for opinions here.

Received a letter from the man running the management company telling me he was increasing the rent from January.

He also said he is increasing the deposit to the amount of the new rent, i.e I have to pay the balance.

The letter said I have to decide within 7 days, and if I don't sign and return the letter agreeing to the increase then he will assume I am moving out and begin my notice period.

I have lived here for nearly four years now with no issues. I pay my rent every month and have never had to contact or meet the owner since moving in. The house is immaculate, I've even given the living room and kitchen a coat of paint in the past year. Fixed numerous things myself, including the shower and heating, I've changed all the bulbs to LED etc. The owner hasn't had to do any maintenance at all since I moved in. Rent was originally 840, went up a couple of times, and the latest he is looking for is 1350.

I have never gotten a new lease since my original 12 month one, and I don't want one either.

I'm fairly angry about the letter and the way it was worded, telling me I had 7 days to decide even though the increase takes effect in January, I have to "top up" my deposit, and that if I don't reply within seven he will assume I am moving out.

Do I have to decide within 7 days? Should I call his bluff and say I'm not paying an increase and see what happens? And what is the story with "topping up" a deposit?

Thanks in advance!

(Or if all else fails, anybody landlord out there looking for a trouble free tenant in North Dublin? :P )

CIARAN_BOYLE

Im sueprised topping up the deposit isnt done more regularly

if deposit is agreed at 2 months rent and rent increases by 400 over a 4 year stay suddeny you are 800 short of two months rent.

handlemaster

aviator7 wrote: »

Hi all, just looking for opinions here.

Received a letter from the man running the management company telling me he was increasing the rent from January.

He also said he is increasing the deposit to the amount of the new rent, i.e I have to pay the balance.

The letter said I have to decide within 7 days, and if I don't sign and return the letter agreeing to the increase then he will assume I am moving out and begin my notice period.

I have lived here for nearly four years now with no issues. I pay my rent every month and have never had to contact or meet the owner since moving in. The house is immaculate, I've even given the living room and kitchen a coat of paint in the past year. Fixed numerous things myself, including the shower and heating, I've changed all the bulbs to LED etc. The owner hasn't had to do any maintenance at all since I moved in. Rent was originally 840, went up a couple of times, and the latest he is looking for is 1350.

I have never gotten a new lease since my original 12 month one, and I don't want one either.

I'm fairly angry about the letter and the way it was worded, telling me I had 7 days to decide even though the increase takes effect in January, I have to "top up" my deposit, and that if I don't reply within seven he will assume I am moving out.

Do I have to decide within 7 days? Should I call his bluff and say I'm not paying an increase and see what happens? And what is the story with "topping up" a deposit?

Thanks in advance!

(Or if all else fails, anybody landlord out there looking for a trouble free ténant in North Dublin? :P )

Business letters can be hard to phrase and some people get upset at the easiest thing. The message has been recieved by you. You understand the issue and the solution. Pony up or move on really. The 7 day thing is probably more a reaction to the new government regulation they are about to pass.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Im sueprised topping up the deposit isnt done more regularly

if deposit is agreed at 2 months rent and rent increases by 400 over a 4 year stay suddeny you are 800 short of two months rent.

And what's that got to do with the price of cabbages?

Arbiter of Good Taste

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

And what's that got to do with the price of cabbages?

Maybe because the OP mentioned it in his post and it's a valid point?

dudara

Increasing the rent is one thing, but asking for additional deposit is unusual, and not something I'd be personally be keen on. Especially after 4 years in a tenancy. But I don't know where it stands legally.

handlemaster

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Im sueprised topping up the deposit isnt done more regularly

if deposit is agreed at 2 months rent and rent increases by 400 over a 4 year stay suddeny you are 800 short of two months rent.

How much do you think a deposit will cover if the tenant skips rent or damages the property? The LL is right to demand the higher deposit.

Wabbit Ears

The legislation puts landlords in a very weak position and makes evictions etc much more difficult. I expect to see deposits skyrocket, like 2 months minimum, perhaps 3 or 4 and every rent increase opportunity used to the max.

listermint

handlemaster wrote: »

How much do you think a deposit will cover if the tenant skips rent or damages the property? The LL is right to demand the higher deposit.

A deposits is agreed at the start of the contract.

What the ops landlord has technically done is turned a deposit to a rent guarantee different things .

The deposit is protection of the property physically for damage its purpose is not rent guarantee so the landlord isn't 'missing out on anything' they are changing the rules of the contract.

Not sound

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

In that case the deposit should be a year's rent, at least, plus the value of the house...

Rodgeb

They probably want to push this increase through before the new regulations come in. He cannot just assume you are giving notice by not replying. However some more info is needed.

Part 4 tenancy (which you are in) runs out after 4 years before a new one starts, when will you have been there 4 years?

When was the rent last increased? Was it within the last 12 months?
Take a look on Daft, is 1350 the norm for similar properties in your area? (Market Rate). In a Part 4 tenancy you can raise a dispute with the PRTB if he tries to raise the rent above the market rate.

Regarding increasing the deposit , I would tell him to go jump...

spaceHopper

Agree to the increase, don't mention the deposit but say that it's been 4 years since any maintenance has been done and more than 4 years since the place was painted give them a list of everything inside and out they should do. You won't hear from them again

handlemaster

listermint wrote: »

A deposits is agreed at the start of the contract.

What the ops landlord has technically done is turned a deposit to a rent guarantee different things .

The deposit is protection of the property physically for damage its purpose is not rent guarantee so the landlord isn't 'missing out on anything' they are changing the rules of the contract.

If the tenant doesnt pay their rent and moves out will the landlord give back the deposit ? If not why not ?

aviator7

Rodgeb wrote: »

They probably want to push this increase through before the new regulations come in. He cannot just assume you are giving notice by not replying. However some more info is needed.

Part 4 tenancy (which you are in) runs out after 4 years before a new one starts, when will you have been there 4 years?

When was the rent last increased? Was it within the last 12 months?
Take a look on Daft, is 1350 the norm for similar properties in your area? (Market Rate). In a Part 4 tenancy you can raise a dispute with the PRTB if he tries to raise the rent above the market rate.

Regarding increasing the deposit , I would tell him to go jump...

Thanks for the reply.

I will be in the house for four years mid February.

January this year was the last time he increased it.

1350 would be the upper end of what it available nearby at the moment, so yes around market rate.


The two points that are bothering me is being told I have to decide within a week, and the deposit increasing - which means essentially paying double the increase in January on top of the current rent. Can't see that being too pleasant less than a week after xmas.

Gongoozler

I'm not sure where the law is on raising the deposit, sounds odd, especially as it would presumably not be in the original contract as a possibility.

Regarding the idea of him saying you'll have to be gone by January, you're there quite a long time, and if you were to move out you'd have to give (at least) 8 weeks notice, so January does make sense. Though, again, I'm not sure if he can 'assume' you're giving notice if you don't agree.

You really need to contact the prtb, though I'd get there soon.

SteM

aviator7 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

I will be in the house for four years mid February.

January this year was the last time he increased it.

1350 would be the upper end of what it available nearby at the moment, so yes around market rate.


The two points that are bothering me is being told I have to decide within a week, and the deposit increasing - which means essentially paying double the increase in January on top of the current rent. Can't see that being too pleasant less than a week after xmas.

With regards to the increase in deposit. Maybe explain the situation, it's very close to Christmas and coming on the back of a rent increase etc, then ask him if you can pay the deposit increase in installments over x months?

runawaybishop

aviator7 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

I will be in the house for four years mid February.

January this year was the last time he increased it.

1350 would be the upper end of what it available nearby at the moment, so yes around market rate.


The two points that are bothering me is being told I have to decide within a week, and the deposit increasing - which means essentially paying double the increase in January on top of the current rent. Can't see that being too pleasant less than a week after xmas.

The rent rise seems appropriate so, the request for more deposit or a reply in 7 days has no real backing. Given your part 4 ends in feb it would be in your interest, should you wish to stay at the new rent rate, to get a new lease so you can't be kicked out as part 4 resets after 4 years.

gizmo555

Under current legislation you have 28 days to dispute the proposed increase. The landlord is trying to get an increase into effect before the government's proposals come in this month. Given you had an increase last Jan, this would prevent another until Jan 2017.

d31b0y

Hang on, I thought a landlord can only increase rent once in a 12 month period? This sounds dodgy as hell to me. Only trying to get in before the new legislation comes into effect. I would get on to the PRTB asap.

runawaybishop

d31b0y wrote: »

Hang on, I thought a landlord can only increase rent once in a 12 month period? This sounds dodgy as hell to me. Only trying to get in before the new legislation comes into effect. I would get on to the PRTB asap.

The rent was last increased in jan so this increase is fine as it takes affect from jan.

gizmo555

d31b0y wrote: »

Hang on, I thought a landlord can only increase rent once in a 12 month period? This sounds dodgy as hell to me. Only trying to get in before the new legislation comes into effect. I would get on to the PRTB asap.

The landlord is not trying to increase the rent early, he's trying to get an increase agreed early to beat the new legislation.

There is no legal basis for him purporting to require the OP to agree within 7 days, or to take a failure to agree as notice of ending the tenancy. On the other hand, if the OP's current tenancy ends in February anyway, he could in principle put him out then.

OP, I agree you should contact the PRTB and get back to the landlord with a counter offer. All landlords would prefer to keep a reliable tenant in place rather than go to the trouble of reletting.

aviator7

Thanks for all the replies, very informative.


What do you all think about the legality of seven day "decision time," if there is a time frame of 28 days to dispute a rent increase to the PRTB it seems odd if this is allowed.

Just to clarify, involving the PRTB is something I really don't want to do, I'd be much happier coming to agreement directly with the landlord.

My original lease is very clear in explaining how I give notice of my intention to move out, not replying to a letter within seven days isn't the method described. :rolleyes:

Gongoozler

There's no need to 'involve' the prtb, you don't have to set up a dispute, you can ring them and ask them to clarify the legality of what he's doing, instead of continuing to ask here where people obviously don't know.

gizmo555

aviator7 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, very informative.


What do you all think about the legality of seven day "decision time," if there is a time frame of 28 days to dispute a rent increase to the PRTB it seems odd if this is allowed.

Just to clarify, involving the PRTB is something I really don't want to do, I'd be much happier coming to agreement directly with the landlord.

My original lease is very clear in explaining how I give notice of my intention to move out, not replying to a letter within seven days isn't the method described. :rolleyes:

A landlord can only increase the rent once in any 12 month period, and cannot increase within 12 months of the commencement of the tenancy except in limited circumstances such as a complete refurbishment of the property which affects the market rent of the dwelling. The Residential Tenancies Act prohibits the landlord from setting a rent that is in excess of market rent. If a landlord intends increasing the rent, they must inform you, in writing, of any increase in rent, 28 days before the increase is due to take effect. A valid notice served by the landlord must state the amount of rent and the date to which it is to have effect. A landlord is also required to notify the PRTB of the revised rent so that the registrations details can be updated.

Where a valid notice of a rent review has been served by the landlord then either party can submit a dispute to the PRTB before the new rent is to have effect or before the expiry of the 28 days notice from the tenant receiving that notice. There is no time limit where an invalid notice is served.

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/rent-reviews

allibastor

Have you spoken with anyone from Citizens advice on this.

Your LL seems to be trying to front load an increase due the very public mess up by Alan Kelly (surprise)

I would ask the LL why the increase, but as said before, unless they issue you with a new contract, and completely ignore your first 4 years there they dont really have grounds for a new deposit.

I do love LL and management companies who think putting pressure on a very good tenant for the sake of 100 a month more is a good idea. Makes such good business sense.

Butters1979

The early rent increase notice is an interesting question. If he can do this what's to stop someone who is not due a rent increase until say next October to issue early notice now to avoid the new laws? Surely there's rules against this.

As for the 7 day or he will consider it notice you're leaving, that holds absolutely no water from a legal stand point. It could also be considered coercion and even blackmail, and I would strongly infer that's the way you see it also.

From what you say about prices in the area the rent increase itself seems fair under the old rules, however the way he is trying to force your hand with this threat doesn't sit well with me. I would personally resist it and contact a solicitor (but that's just me, you need to make your own decision).

The landlord has basically destroyed a relationship with what sounds like a very good long term tenant by this aggressive stance.

The deposit thing is just stupid, you singed a contract and gave the required deposit. Tell him to get lost.

April 73

Nobody likes to get the news that the rent or the mortgage is getting put up. The natural inclination is anger.

Is €1350 a fair rent for the current market where you live? If it is & you don't think you'll get better for less your best option is to negotiate with the landlord.

Point out that you are a stable long-standing tenant who takes care of the place & causes minimum work for the landlord. You might be willing to meet part-way on the rent increase but that the initial deposit paid is what was in the lease agreement & there are no grounds for increasing that. Mention that there is no obligation on you to give an answer in 7 days. You have 28 days & that should be enough time to reach an agreement. After four years you are also entitled to be given far longer than 28 days notice to quit the property (may become relevant when your Part IV tenancy expires)

As your Part IV tenancy comes to an end next year you would be advised to put get a new signed lease in place if you want to stay.

runawaybishop

April 73 wrote: »

Mention that there is no obligation on you to give an answer in 7 days. You have 28 days & that should be enough time to reach an agreement.

Just as a point the landlord is also under no obligation to give the tenant 7 days to think about it or to allow negotiation, they can just issue a valid notice that the rent will rise from Jan and as long as that is market rate then going to the PTRB will not have any effect.

maximoose

Gongoozler wrote: »

There's no need to 'involve' the prtb, you don't have to set up a dispute, you can ring them and ask them to clarify the legality of what he's doing, instead of continuing to ask here where people obviously don't know.

PRTB won't give you any advice, they'll refer you to Threshold who will.

Gatling

Tell your landlord you'll discuss any proposed increase in January and not before and if he's looking for an increase in the deposit paid 4 years ago ,
You already paid a deposit 4 years ago and it's not open for discussion

skallywag

I rented for many years in a country which has a very mature rental market, with strong protections in place for both the landlord and the tenant, as indeed did many other people who I would have known. Rent increases after the duration of the current lease could of course be expected, but I have never once heard of a case where a landlord would look to increase the deposit.

It's totally unacceptable in my opinion to expect the deposit to be 'topped-up', and at the risk of using a phrase which I normally shy away from, it sounds very Irish.