Rent Increase thread

Timothy Bryce

I haven't had a chance to read fully through this whole thread so apologies in advance if this has been mentioned already. It's something that's bugging me quite a bit, and none of the mainstream media appears to be talking about it. I feel it's contributing to the rental crisis significantly.

Some background: I bought a 2 bed apartment in south Dublin in late 2006, probably near the top of the boom. Paid just shy of €450k for it, on a tracker mortgage. When the downturn came, I was put on reduced hours at work, and it meant I couldn't make ends meet - ultimately I decided to move out and live with my parents, and rent out the apartment. I'm a landlord by circumstance, not by design.

Since then, I take in c.€11k in rental income per annum, which is offset by c.€10k in mortgage payments, €2k in management fees, roughly €1k to a letting agent and other miscellaneous outgoings. In recent years it's made a substantial loss and I've had to add my own income to balance the books.

I have a real bugbear that the Revenue only give me mortgage interest relief of 75%, and given it's a tracker mortgage, 10 years into the term, the interest I pay out each year is getting smaller and smaller. They look to tax me on the €11k minus 75% of the mortgage interest (usually around €2k), and other expenditures. It leaves me a liability to the revenue each year of an average of €3-4k. I use my already taxed PAYE income to make payments on a phased basis over 10 months. All the while, I'm 34 years of age, I live at home with my parents outside of Dublin (paying them nominal rent), money that should be going into savings is going to pay the Revenue on what is essentially a loss making business.

I've spoken to a couple of accountants who've told me to suck it up and hope that the place is in positive equity soon so I can offload it and cut my losses. Recently I've increased the rent to help balance the books, and I know it's put a serious squeeze on the young family who rent from me.

If the Revenue were to look at my rental income differently, it's unlikely that I would have had to increase the rent. I'm stuck in a hole, dying to get out and start my life again, but the bills to the revenue are crippling me.

Anyone else in a similar situation to me?

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

snubbleste

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

I haven't had a chance to read fully through this whole thread so............. Anyone else in a similar situation to me?

You got a €450k mortgage for a flat at the age of 24 :eek:
Slaving away to pay for that is nuts, causes personal hardship
Have you considered bankruptcy or similar?

handlemaster

The system is against landlords for sure will all the taxes etc . But in saying that I dont think the tax payer should bail you out because you purchased an apartment that went down in value.

P.s. The same happened to me. Keep the head up and remember its only money.

athtrasna

Rent increase thread

Mod

Silverbling

beauf wrote: »

If you move to somewhere with a housing crisis you have to accept there will be problems.

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index/europe

What if you have rented there for 30 years and not moved to the area?

Silverbling

[QUOTE=Timothy Bryce;99212845

Since then, I take in c.€11k in rental income per annum, which is offset by c.€10k in mortgage payments, €2k in management fees, roughly €1k to a letting agent and other miscellaneous outgoings. In recent years it's made a substantial loss and I've had to add my own income to balance the books.



If you are on the green luas line and looking for a long term renter who will look after your property please pm me, I have excellent references but am self employed

I am paying privately to live in a 1 room granny flat with my 2 kids so space is not an issue

I have 16 months left in the system as they gave me 2 years based on my stamps, no one will take rent allowance off someone self employed, we are the ones that work 80-100 hour weeks and not quit to go on the welfare full time!

I am doing a degree along with running my new business and graduate next February

I just need a break, in 2 years I will be employed in an industry standard job as the degree will give me the piece of paper which supplies the high salary, I can then afford to pay someone to run my websites which will be in profit

KungPao

Lived in a rented apartment with the wife for 2 years at 800pm. Not bad. Place was iffy but clean and safe in a very nice area.

In February LL said he wanted to raise it to 1000pm. He tried to sugar coat the raise by saying it will be locked at that for the next 2 years. The thought of giving him €24,000 over that time made me feel queasy. Gave him the aul "but we are great tenants etc" and he said we can settle on 900pm.

Thought about it and just said **** that. Moved back to live with the mother (she lived alone in 3 bed house), and we will save for a deposit. Nice to get out of that rental market for now at least.

LL let us leave at short notice...sure why wouldn't he? Probably getting over a grand now for the place considering the lack of properties out there.

Diemos

Our landlord wants to increase our rent by 825€ per month.

Do we win the rent increase thread? :P

KungPao

Diemos wrote: »

Our landlord wants to increase our rent by 825€ per month.

Do we win the rent increase thread? :P

What's the story there?!

Was wondering if my LL would bother increasing the rent as we have almost no contact with him but go a text there two weeks ago that my rent is going up 25 euro a month from the start of April* (I rent a room not the whole place, going up the same amount for the other two housemates). Hardly worth talking about really compared to some of the rent increases happening and you could argue its still under market rate slightly anyway.

Yes technically I know I should probably be getting 3 months notice but the LL is sound and never bothers with us (but is good for getting stuff fixed etc), its only 25 euro and the house operates very casually anyway no leases, only a months notice (or less even) for moving out, turnover of housemates etc etc.

Diemos

KungPao wrote: »

What's the story there?!

275€ per month hike in Jan 2015 followed by a letter for a further 825€ in December.
The apartment next door completely renovated and advertised online but for a crazy amount.
It has been advertised and empty for over a year.
Our landlord has found this advert online and thinks his apartment is worth the same amount.

elfy4eva

Diemos wrote: »

275€ per month hike in Jan 2015 followed by a letter for a further 825€ in December.
The apartment next door completely renovated and advertised online but for a crazy amount.
It has been advertised and empty for over a year.
Our landlord has found this advert online and thinks his apartment is worth the same amount.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but if you received a rent hike in January 2015, with the rent freeze introduced surely you can't be increased till minimum January 2017???

Diemos

Yes, we contacted the PRTB, they informed us that a number of landlords were either confused by the new law or trying to take advantage of the confusion around the new law.
We wrote a letter to the the landlord, informing him of our findings and we've heard nothing back.

To be honest, I'm a bit miffed that he thinks the apartment is worth anything like what he was asking.
We'll see out the next few months and move on.
Too much crap, we've paid for all the gas boiler services and repairs since we moved in (his responsibility, I know but when the boiler broke in the first few months he was getting cowboys (including his brother), none of which were registered plumbers, to work on the boiler when it broke). With a cold apartment and no hot water (no sign of a resolution), we asked a friend who is registered and insured, he found and fixed the problem (gas is not something you want a handyman working on), the door to the balcony on the second bedroom seems to be leaking, the room always has a musty smell, dark stain on the carpet at the door, the bathroom needs an entire re-fit, the burglar alarm has never worked and the wood on the balcony is a death trap, rotted through (almost every other apartment has had theirs replaced since we've been there) and the place need to be refreshed completely.

I'm painting a bad picture, but it has been our home and we've kept it clean and looked after it.

I'm sure there are a lot of landlords who will appreciate tenants who pay on time and keep the apartment in good nick.

handlemaster

Diemos wrote: »

Yes, we contacted the PRTB, they informed us that a number of landlords were either confused by the new law or trying to take advantage of the confusion around the new law.
We wrote a letter to the the landlord, informing him of our findings and we've heard nothing back.

To be honest, I'm a bit miffed that he thinks the apartment is worth anything like what he was asking.
We'll see out the next few months and move on.
Too much crap, we've paid for all the gas boiler services and repairs since we moved in (his responsibility, I know but when the boiler broke in the first few months he was getting cowboys (including his brother), none of which were registered plumbers, to work on the boiler when it broke). With a cold apartment and no hot water (no sign of a resolution), we asked a friend who is registered and insured, he found and fixed the problem (gas is not something you want a handyman working on), the door to the balcony on the second bedroom seems to be leaking, the room always has a musty smell, dark stain on the carpet at the door, the bathroom needs an entire re-fit, the burglar alarm has never worked and the wood on the balcony is a death trap, rotted through (almost every other apartment has had theirs replaced since we've been there) and the place need to be refreshed completely.

I'm painting a bad picture, but it has been our home and we've kept it clean and looked after it.

I'm sure there are a lot of landlords who will appreciate tenants who pay on time and keep the apartment in good nick.

The LL is entitled to ask for the market rate as long as he complies with all the regulations. He will have to wait.

Fkall

As you are living in an apartment the management company is responsible for servicing the boiler annually.

Diemos

He is not asking the market rate, he is asking significantly above the market rate.
He has picked one anomaly, the fact that it has been vacant for so long proves this.

If he asks for that amount when we leave then there is no way he will get it.
The market simply won't support the price.
It's no skin off my back, I'm walking.

Diemos

Fkall wrote: »

As you are living in an apartment the management company is responsible for servicing the boiler annually.

Really, I was told it was the landlord. The boiler is in our apartment.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Fkall wrote: »

As you are living in an apartment the management company is responsible for servicing the boiler annually.

No. It's the landlord's responsibility.

Butters1979

Diemos wrote: »

275€ per month hike in Jan 2015 followed by a letter for a further 825€ in December.
The apartment next door completely renovated and advertised online but for a crazy amount.
It has been advertised and empty for over a year.
Our landlord has found this advert online and thinks his apartment is worth the same amount.

That's an insane increase. The fact that the other apartment has been empty for a year implies the rent expectations are too high. that can't count as the 'going rate'.

Does anyone know if the 'going rate' is based off what other properties are being actually rented out at or can it include what they are just advertised at? That could be open to abuse, if you have a building full of apartments just advertise one at a stupid high price and all of a sudden you have your new 'going rate'.

Graham

Butters1979 wrote: »

That's an insane increase. The fact that the other apartment has been empty for a year implies the rent expectations are too high. that can't count as the 'going rate'.

Does anyone know if the 'going rate' is based off what other properties are being actually rented out at or can it include what they are just advertised at? That could be open to abuse, if you have a building full of apartments just advertise one at a stupid high price and all of a sudden you have your new 'going rate'.

I would guess it would fail the market rate test.

Market rent is defined as a rent that a willing Tenant not already in occupation would give and a willing Landlord would take for the dwelling, having regard to other terms of the tenancy and the letting values of dwellings of a similar size, type and character to the dwelling and situated In a comparable area to that in which it is situated.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

No. It's the landlord's responsibility.

And a service every year would be overkill too. Once every few years should be fine unless its having problems.

boardfriek

Interesting to read all of the posts really.

To give you an update. I will have called a meeting with my landlord for tomorrow and I will use the chance to discuss the raise of the rent (what can I loose?). Just to give you a better picture. I am living in a three bedroom house in an OK-area 20min walk from Cork´s city center with garden in the backyard and parking in the front of the house for two cars. The house has BER B3, solar panels and central gas heating with showers being warmed using that system (non-PowerShowers). My tenancy started in 2010 with a rent of 900 Euro´s ever since. Landlord is a private person, no agency (thanks God). He has given notice in the correct timeframe of 90 days and rent will go up by 300 Euro´s from June. There was never any hassle, he did not have to do much as the house was first letting so everything was new and I have maintained very well. I am a non-smoker, no pets , no parties, no noise or complaints. Never paid rent a single day late.

I would really appreciate any last minute recommendations to help in my negotiations. My goal is to negotiate a discount of 100 Euro´s per month. Does that sound reasonable? Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback.

KungPao

@boardfriek

If he wants around €1200, he'll probably get it...from you or someone else. 900 was recession prices, he'll say, now its underpriced etc etc.

Sadly the "ive been here x years and caused no trouble" angle doesnt do much. He wants money...the more, the better.

That said, you may get a discount. Ask if €1050 is doable and work from there, and plead your case. But remember there may be people on his radar that are willing to pay full whack or even more.

Best of luck.

Absolutely look for a discount. It's not unreasonable to ask.
Consider the situations from the landlords perspective;

• you pay the new rent unquestionably
• you pay an increased rental rate X but not the full rate
• you don't pay and he requires a new tenant.

Obviously he would prefer the first, but he might well prefer the second to the third too if the first is not an option!

It could conceivably be worth over €500 per year to the landlord (~ €40 discount per month) simply to have you (a trusted & good tenant) in the house over a new unknown tenant.
It could also conceivably be worth > €500 in potential lost earnings (couple of weeks between you moving out and new tenant in etc) and cost to not have to serve notice and find a new tenant.
That means that though the landlord might accept that though he could potentially, starting afresh today achieve a rental figure of €1,200 per month, that the far more certain chance of receiving €1,100 per month is worth it.

You can figure out what you believe the benefit of your tenancy is over that of new unknown tenant, and also the cost of retaining you (0) vs finding a new tenant (X), and ask your landlord to give you that as a discount.

Of course, they might say no, that's their choice. But a lot of landlords would see sense in this situation imo. You're not even particularly appealing to their emotions here, you are appealing to their business sense and their bottom line.

You have proven worth as a tenant, it's not unreasonable to mention that. It does seem that you accept that a rent increase is warranted, which is a decent start, you seem prepared to pay more, just possibly not quite what is being asked!

boardfriek

Thanks KungPao & Aubree Hollow Smallpox for you recommendations. Really helpful.

Additional info from my side. The house next to me (attached) was up for rent two month a go for roughly 4 weeks. Starting price was 1500 Euro´s after 10 days down 1400 Euro´s followed by 1300 Euro´s before it was taken off as he found new tenants. My guess is that this was the benchmark for him in setting the new rent. I would not know at this stage if the new guys ended up paying 1300 or negotiated 1200 in the end. Fact is that they moved in with a dog which is according to the contract and to his statements against policy.

April 73

Briella Chubby Hockey wrote: »

And a service every year would be overkill too. Once every few years should be fine unless its having problems.

In Northern Ireland its a legal requirement for a gas boiler to be serviced yearly & a safety cert to be issued in rental properties. It is the LL's responsibility.

If a landlord here has any sense (or decency) they will get a gas boiler serviced every year & keep the records. Imagine if there was a CO issue & someone died for the sake of €70 or €80 which is a tax write-off anyway?

April 73

boardfriek wrote: »

Interesting to read all of the posts really.

To give you an update. I will have called a meeting with my landlord for tomorrow and I will use the chance to discuss the raise of the rent (what can I loose?). Just to give you a better picture. I am living in a three bedroom house in an OK-area 20min walk from Cork´s city center with garden in the backyard and parking in the front of the house for two cars. The house has BER B3, solar panels and central gas heating with showers being warmed using that system (non-PowerShowers). My tenancy started in 2010 with a rent of 900 Euro´s ever since. Landlord is a private person, no agency (thanks God). He has given notice in the correct timeframe of 90 days and rent will go up by 300 Euro´s from June. There was never any hassle, he did not have to do much as the house was first letting so everything was new and I have maintained very well. I am a non-smoker, no pets , no parties, no noise or complaints. Never paid rent a single day late.

I would really appreciate any last minute tips to help in my negotiations. My goal is not negotiate a discount of 100 Euro´s per month. Does that seem reasonable? Thanks in advance for constructive feedback.

You've had six years at the original rent so I think the LL is within his rights to look to increase the rent at this stage. €300 is a hefty increase but that may be around the market rate.
Definitely negotiate with the LL. After six years of you left he would probably need to decorate & spend money to get new tenants. If you stay he won't have that outlay. Also point out that for every €100 you pay him he will only keep €52 and the government get an extra €48.
Because of the two year rental freeze period though the LL may not want to lock into another two years of below market rent. Start by offering €1000 but I think you'll be lucky to meet at €1050. More likely it'll be €1100.

handlemaster

boardfriek wrote: »

Interesting to read all of the posts really.

To give you an update. I will have called a meeting with my landlord for tomorrow and I will use the chance to discuss the raise of the rent (what can I loose?). Just to give you a better picture. I am living in a three bedroom house in an OK-area 20min walk from Cork´s city center with garden in the backyard and parking in the front of the house for two cars. The house has BER B3, solar panels and central gas heating with showers being warmed using that system (non-PowerShowers). My tenancy started in 2010 with a rent of 900 Euro´s ever since. Landlord is a private person, no agency (thanks God). He has given notice in the correct timeframe of 90 days and rent will go up by 300 Euro´s from June. There was never any hassle, he did not have to do much as the house was first letting so everything was new and I have maintained very well. I am a non-smoker, no pets , no parties, no noise or complaints. Never paid rent a single day late.

I would really appreciate any last minute tips to help in my negotiations. My goal is not negotiate a discount of 100 Euro´s per month. Does that seem reasonable? Thanks in advance for constructive feedback.

My advise is dont give the I never paid rent late etc.... it's what is required.... And dont be an ass

Graham

April 73 wrote: »

Also point out that for every €100 you pay him he will only keep €52 and the government get an extra €48.

Don't do this.

It's just as likely to make the landlord ask for an extra few quid to make up for the government cut or refuse to negotiate in the knowledge he's not going to see much of the increase.