Rent Increase thread

quadrifoglio verde

Beagle Boy wrote: »

There is a lot of interesting commentary on here. However I haven't really seen anything that addresses my original question. If its over year since a tenant had a rent review/increase (for argument say its a year and a half) is there any reason why a landlord would rush to do it right now rather than just do it in the next few months. Is it down to the notice period being longer from January 2016 onward?

Reading it, it says rent increase. They've had a rent increase in Jan 15, so I'd be going with they're not due an increase now until 2017.
I'd be waiting until the legislation is in in your case. If rent can be increased, happy days, if it can't, well you weren't going to lose out anyway.
We will know in the next few weeks exactly what's coming down the line

quadrifoglio verde

Lux23 wrote: »

Rents are not controlled if they are set by the market rate, that's not control. I wouldn't even mind if the market was properly defined, it's not, a one bedroom apartment with new fittings and fixtures is the same as a one bed flat that hasn't see a lick of paint.

If 1,000s of landlords left the sector tomorrow there would be more affordable housing for those that want to buy freeing up more rental units. It's the one property landlords clogging up the system, the government needs to make it less attractive to them freeing up more properties for those that want to buy or for big property companies that actually know how to run a business.

No it isn't. Are you honestly trying to say that a one bed shack rents that goes on the market the same time as a luxurious one bed studio will both go for the same rate?
No it won't.

What will happen is a certain amount of tenants will decide what the price for each one bed appartment is. Not the landlord.

What's your suggestion for rent control. That the market might be prepared to pay more, but aren't allowed? What happens to the person who wants to pay 1800 to live close to where they work, but because of rent control has to take a place 2 hours away from work....is that fair?

Well in that case you won't find either one property landlords or multinational companies rushing in to rent out properties leaving you with two options
Illegal tenancys and property ownership

Your only option to bring down rents, is increase supply. Nothing else will bring down rents and be fair for everyone

FrStone

housetypeb wrote: »

Bought by canny investors who know they can only maximize profit every two years while paying 52% tax for the privilege?

These investors have no problem making money in other countries with much stricter rent controls.

I suppose that unlike the one off landlord, they understand that while rent payments may not cover the loan repayment, in 25 years they will own the property while only paying a small amount of the loan themselves.

Beagle Boy

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Reading it, it says rent increase. They've had a rent increase in Jan 15, so I'd be going with they're not due an increase now until 2017.
I'd be waiting until the legislation is in in your case. If rent can be increased, happy days, if it can't, well you weren't going to lose out anyway.
We will know in the next few weeks exactly what's coming down the line

Not sure I'm following this. If a tenant hasn't had an increase in a year and a half its April 2014 since the had a review so the rule about not having a review until 2017 if they've reviewed in 2015 is irrelevant?

quadrifoglio verde

Beagle Boy wrote: »

Not sure I'm following this. If a tenant hasn't had an increase in a year and a half its April 2014 since the had a review so the rule about not having a review until 2017 if they've reviewed in 2015 is irrelevant?

No, we need clarity in the legislation as to whether it'll be a rent increase or a rent review.

I'm banking on it being a rent increase and not a rent review because if it's a review and tgevrent went down, then according to the legislation it can't be reviewed for two years. I can't see the gov going with that.

As it stands the rent can only be increased once in a twelve month period.
But this is talking about once every 24 months that it can be increased, not reviewed.

If the tenants last increase was I'm april 2014, then under current legislation and my understanding of what the legislation will be going forward, the rent can be increased today or in 2016. But if it increased on Jan 1st 2015 it won't be allowed be increased until Jan 1st 2017

Gatling

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

No, we need clarity in the legislation as to whether it'll be a rent increase or a rent review.

I'm banking on it being a rent increase and not a rent review because if it's a review and tgevrent went down, then according to the legislation it can't be reviewed for two years. I can't see the gov going with that.

As it stands the rent can only be increased once in a twelve month period.
But this is talking about once every 24 months that it can be increased, not reviewed.

If the tenants last increase was I'm april 2014, then under current legislation and my understanding of what the legislation will be going forward, the rent can be increased today or in 2016. But if it increased on Jan 1st 2015 it won't be allowed be increased until Jan 1st 2017

Posted this in the other thread .

"Minister Kelly said it will be illegal for landlords to increase rent between now and the introduction of the legislation unless a rent review is due or, if under the terms of the tenancy, the rent has not been increased in the last year or two and a rent review is due"

Link


http://m.rte.ie/news/2015/1111/741041-rent-legislation/

Tarzana2

Lux23 wrote: »

Many are poorly run businesses, however the difference between being a landlord and many other businesses is that tenants have no choice but to pay the market rate because we need somewhere to live. We also have to pay for heat and electricity but these sectors have price control. Should the rental private sector be at the mercy of free market principles? I don't think so.

I see the free market argument on this forum a lot, but these principles aren't set in stone, the state can step in and regulate. A taxi driver has to charge the same amount as his competitor, why is the rental sector being protected?

Yeah, I somewhat agree. People need a roof over their heads, it's a basic need. So many people in Dublin now are paying more than a third of their wages in rent, that just seems so wrong. But, IMO, the thing that needs to happen more than anything else is that Dublin needs to build up rather than out. I'd happily live in an apartment long term if it was a decent size, I'd have no problem with it being on the tenth floor or whatever.

I agree though, many landlord do not treat it as a proper business.

murphaph

Beagle Boy wrote: »

There is a lot of interesting commentary on here. However I haven't really seen anything that addresses my original question. If its over year since a tenant had a rent review/increase (for argument say its a year and a half) is there any reason why a landlord would rush to do it right now rather than just do it in the next few months. Is it down to the notice period being longer from January 2016 onward?

Landlords are spooked. We genuinely don't know what's coming down the line. Too much kite flying by government and Kelly in particular. Too much uncertainty.

runawaybishop

Gatling wrote: »

Posted this in the other thread .

"Minister Kelly said it will be illegal for landlords to increase rent between now and the introduction of the legislation unless a rent review is due or, if under the terms of the tenancy, the rent has not been increased in the last year or two and a rent review is due"

Link


http://m.rte.ie/news/2015/1111/741041-rent-legislation/

You can only increase rent when a review is due anyway.

Gatling

runawaybishop wrote: »

You can only increase rent when a review is due anyway.

But as we are seeing landlords are demanding increase agreements now .
I only signed an agreement in the middle of July if I get a call or email suggesting it's time to negotiate an increase .
I'll reply see you in July 2017

runawaybishop

Gatling wrote: »

But as we are seeing landlords are demanding increase agreements now .
I only signed an agreement in the middle of July if I get a call or email suggesting it's time to negotiate an increase .
I'll reply see you in July 2017

Read what he said again, he just reiterated that landlords can increase rents now if they are due.

Gatling

runawaybishop wrote: »

Read what he said again, he just reiterated that landlords can increase rents now if they are due.

If, is the word asking for an increase in November when your lease agreement isn't due to be up sometime in 2016 is been sly ,
We've had 4 increases in 4 years I'll be glad of a break of increases

runawaybishop

Gatling wrote: »

If, is the word asking for an increase in November when your lease agreement isn't due to be up sometime in 2016 is been sly ,
We've had 4 increases in 4 years I'll be glad of a break of increases

This rent control isn't a good thing, in the long run it will cost you more money.

handlemaster

There is going to be tears in two years time .... rent will go higher than ever before

keane2097

handlemaster wrote: »

There is going to be tears in two years time .... rent will go higher than ever before

You'd swear it wouldn't have regardless.

gizmo555

keane2097 wrote: »

You'd swear it wouldn't have regardless.

Rents will go higher than they otherwise would have because this legislation will make landlords fearful that further measures will be introduced, or that this measure won't be revoked in four years as promised.

After all, income tax was first introduced in 1798 as a temporary, emergency measure!

Silverbling

There is not enough supply but the problem is not the landlords wanting the best price but where does the money come from to pay the South Dublin rents before you start on bills and all the other living expenses.

If the rent is covering your mortgage and repairs why not take a decent long term tenant at under the market rate, surely it is a safer bet than someone desperately trying to make ends meet who at some point will end up defaulting and then getting into a situation where they need evicting

Wages have not gone up, we have done 7 years of hardship and I would love to know how single parent familes or even 2 average wages can manage to pay their way when the rent is 1.8k a month plus

I am in the middle ground here, I did have savings but stupidly used it to start a business to better our future but as we all know the self employed don't tick any boxes therefore should be left to fend for themselves, it used to be you told a landlord you were self employed and his face would light up...........now you mention the word and they go white and start quivering and muttering about audited accounts while legging it out of the front door

gizmo555

Silverbling wrote: »

If the rent is covering your mortgage and repairs why not take a decent long term tenant at under the market rate, surely it is a safer bet than someone desperately trying to make ends meet who at some point will end up defaulting and then getting into a situation where they need evicting

Many landlords, including myself, take this approach. The problem is that with the cack handed government interference just to be seen to be doing something, they fear they will in future be stuck unable to increase rents even if an increase is justified.

It's not for nothing that the nine most frightening words in the English language are said to be "We're from the government, and we're here to help!"

Lux23

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

No it isn't. Are you honestly trying to say that a one bed shack rents that goes on the market the same time as a luxurious one bed studio will both go for the same rate?
No it won't.

No, but when a landlord decides to increase the rent on the market rate, they can look on daft and say right, there are lots of one bedroom apartments going for €1,000 so this is what I am going to charge. Standards don't come into this at all. Perhaps if you complain to the PRTB they inspect the apartment and then other apartments in the area to make sure the €1,000 is right. I doubt they do though.

I think we need brackets in which properties will fall into if they reach certain standards, a bit like a BER rating. The landlords themselves can decide what they charge but tenants and say the PRTB could then challenge what a landlord is charging based on whatever bracket they fall into.

Granted the likelihood of the PRTB having the resources to do this is slim so maybe the only real workable solution is rent control.

gizmo555

Lux23 wrote: »

Standards don't come into this at all.

There is a well defined set of standards for rental accomodation.

Lux23 wrote: »

Granted the likelihood of the PRTB having the resources to do this is slim so maybe the only real workable solution is rent control.

And where would whatever body which had the task of setting and controlling rents get the resources?

Beagle Boy

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

If the tenants last increase was I'm april 2014, then under current legislation and my understanding of what the legislation will be going forward, the rent can be increased today or in 2016. But if it increased on Jan 1st 2015 it won't be allowed be increased until Jan 1st 2017

Ok thanks. Is it the case that if you don't review the rent on the annual date that you can do it at any point after that. So in the case above the last review/increase was April 2014, there was no review in April 2015, can a review be done now or does it have to wait for April 2016?

runawaybishop

Beagle Boy wrote: »

Ok thanks. Is it the case that if you don't review the rent on the annual date that you can do it at any point after that. So in the case above the last review/increase was April 2014, there was no review in April 2015, can a review be done now or does it have to wait for April 2016?

As long as a year has passed it can be done whenever.

quadrifoglio verde

Beagle Boy wrote: »

Ok thanks. Is it the case that if you don't review the rent on the annual date that you can do it at any point after that. So in the case above the last review/increase was April 2014, there was no review in April 2015, can a review be done now or does it have to wait for April 2016?

If there's no contract signed then yes (tenant staying on part 4)

If there is a contract signed with the rent staying the same you've given the tenant more rights and therefore can't increase the rent until the contract expires, unless there's a clause about a rent review.

Retrovertigo

Silverbling wrote: »

It was all going so well! I understand his reasons for wanting the house back but had I known at any point that it was a possibilty I would not have used my savings to start a business or made other life choices, instead it came as a total shock with 112 days notice and no contingency plan on my part

Your personal life choices are not the responsibility of a landlord. From everything you've posted it sounded like he was more than fair to you and you begrudge him for having to move, nothing else to it.

Tar.Aldarion

Was waiting for it to happen for a few weeks but yes, got a request to raise rent just over 20% (I imagine entirely due to this). Which is a few thousand a year more.

pc7

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Was waiting for it to happen for a few weeks but yes, got a request to raise rent just over 20% (I imagine entirely due to this). Which is a few thousand a year more.

Does this bring it to market rates? You could try negotiate with LL, maybe suggest 10-15% instead.

Tar.Aldarion

No idea what market rates are as there are so few things on daft near me and they are of different standard etc, so i find info like that to figure out, I imagine I am below market rate anyway. Will try and negotiate!

pc7

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

No idea what market rates are as there are so few things on daft near me and they are of different standard etc, so i find info like that to figure out, I imagine I am below market rate anyway. Will try and negotiate!

All you can do is ask, if your a good tenant they should work with you.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

4ensic15

Heisenberg. wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You can look at the oireachtais website to see what stage the Bill is at. there is always the possibility the President could refer it to the Supreme Court.

lynchie

Still at committee stage as of yesterday

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2012/6912/document1.htm

ash xxx

Hey,

I emailed Alan Kelly's office yesterday wondering when it would be formally introduced as our lease is up on 17th January 2016.

Rent review letter for last 2 years has arrived around 10th December so I am anxious for these measures to be introduced. Email back said they expect it to pass both Houses by 26th November and should be enacted shortly after that. So they said I SHOULD be covered. Here's hoping!

Ash

handlemaster

ash xxx wrote: »

Hey,

I emailed Alan Kelly's office yesterday wondering when it would be formally introduced as our lease is up on 17th January 2016.

Rent review letter for last 2 years has arrived around 10th December so I am anxious for these measures to be introduced. Email back said they expect it to pass both Houses by 26th November and should be enacted shortly after that. So they said I SHOULD be covered. Here's hoping!

Ash

If your LL is reading boards he would sent it by now ðŸ˜

NewApproach

It's the landlords property, let him set the price. If the tenant isn't happy, the landlord will have to find a new tenant. I really don't see the issue with this capitalist approach, and I say that as a tenant. Why should a landlord subsidise a tenants rent by charging below a market rate?

apple_ blossom

I am confused by the 24 month rent freeze , or whatever you want to call it.
I pay my rent one month in advance. I have had a rent increase every year the last 4 years and I just got another letter from my landlord notifying me of another increase, from December (which is really January 16 rent) . can he do that ? He only increased it last December ( ie for Jan15) ?? What about the whole 24 month thing ??? Aarrgghhh . ....I can't even start to describe my frustration

Gatling

apple_ blossom wrote: »

I am confused by the 24 month rent freeze , or whatever you want to call it.
I pay my rent one month in advance. I have had a rent increase every year the last 4 years and I just got another letter from my landlord notifying me of another increase, from December (which is really January 16 rent) . can he do that ? He only increased it last December ( ie for Jan15) ?? What about the whole 24 month thing ??? Aarrgghhh . ....I can't even start to describe my frustration

It's not law yet and won't apply to rent reviews that are due to negotiatied,
Land lords can increase it every 12 months inline with properties in the same area

Jaketherake

Just reading threads from years ago where people were arguing whether extra charges on LLs would be passed on in rent. eg property taxes, lower interest allowances etc

Some were adamant that they couldnt be passed. Most LLs know only too well that for any extra tax on them they must charge the tenant over double that to make it back. And that as soon as the market would bear it not only would they be passed on on the double, but also more passed on to make up for the time they had to wait to be in a position to do so.

Now whats happening is the same thing, but it is going to be front loaded.

Anyway here are a few links. A good read with hindsight i think

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056086997&page=4

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81785551

Selik

apple_ blossom wrote: »

I am confused by the 24 month rent freeze , or whatever you want to call it.
I pay my rent one month in advance. I have had a rent increase every year the last 4 years and I just got another letter from my landlord notifying me of another increase, from December (which is really January 16 rent) . can he do that ? He only increased it last December ( ie for Jan15) ?? What about the whole 24 month thing ??? Aarrgghhh . ....I can't even start to describe my frustration

I've done a similar things with my tenants (rent review around Nov every year but doesn't kick in til Jan) although I'm also unsure of how the new legislation is going to work here - see the 4th post down in this thread and some of the replies.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057520787

So in my case I think it's either going to be - tenants new rent in January will be frozen for 2 years OR (which may be worse for them) I increase the rent again for January 2017, which would then be frozen for 2 years from that month.

I'm still confused though and I hope they box these things off properly in the forthcoming legislation, specifically does the freeze apply from the review date or the actual rent increase date - as alot of LLs (like myself) like to give plenty of notice of any forthcoming change. I'm also a tenant myself so can see all sides to this.

quadrifoglio verde

Jaketherake wrote: »

Just reading threads from years ago where people were arguing whether extra charges on LLs would be passed on in rent. eg property taxes, lower interest allowances etc

Some were adamant that they couldnt be passed. Most LLs know only too well that for any extra tax on them they must charge the tenant over double that to make it back. And that as soon as the market would bear it not only would they be passed on on the double, but also more passed on to make up for the time they had to wait to be in a position to do so.

Now whats happening is the same thing, but it is going to be front loaded.

Anyway here are a few links. A good read with hindsight i think

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056086997&page=4

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81785551

Not the same.
The only thing that will allow a landlord to increase rent is the demand of the market.
Not property tax or usc or prsi.
Now extra taxes may inadvertently cause rents to rise due to more landlords leaving the market to take advantage of better investment opportunities, but its the demand from tenants that directly sets the rent.

If supply had increased and taxes increased at the same time, the rents would have fallen.

4ensic15

Quite a few put their necks on the line here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79006148

athtrasna

apple_ blossom wrote: »

I am confused by the 24 month rent freeze , or whatever you want to call it.
I pay my rent one month in advance. I have had a rent increase every year the last 4 years and I just got another letter from my landlord notifying me of another increase, from December (which is really January 16 rent) . can he do that ? He only increased it last December ( ie for Jan15) ?? What about the whole 24 month thing ??? Aarrgghhh . ....I can't even start to describe my frustration

I'll clarify that we have a single current rent increase thread for a reason. Threads merged

Mod

karenalot

apple_ blossom wrote: »

I am confused by the 24 month rent freeze , or whatever you want to call it.
I pay my rent one month in advance. I have had a rent increase every year the last 4 years and I just got another letter from my landlord notifying me of another increase, from December (which is really January 16 rent) . can he do that ? He only increased it last December ( ie for Jan15) ?? What about the whole 24 month thing ??? Aarrgghhh . ....I can't even start to describe my frustration

My impression is that if your rent increased anytime during 2015 you won't be due another increase till 2017. Doesn't matter when the notice is or was given to you.

Fkall

karenalot wrote: »

My impression is that if your rent increased anytime during 2015 you won't be due another increase till 2017. Doesn't matter when the notice is or was given to you.

Retrospective legislation is unlikely to survive challenge in the courts.

As such, any increase notified prior to the enactment of the new law will be valid.

Zeouterlimits

Just got a rent increase notification, an extra 100. Hmm.
This being in 2015, it would hopefully mean they could not put it up again for 2 years?

Jazzzman

Hi, boring rent increase query.

First off, I've raised this with the PRTB but figured in the mean time I'd pick your brains here.

I've been sharing for 2 years so.

Our lease renews every December.

Last November we were informed the rent would increase. Fine.

We received a letter this month informing us the rent would be rising again, and significantly so.

I guess the question is; under the new legislation being introduced, is the landlord entitled to do so?


Side note: the letter was delivered by the landlord himself and dated early November. We're not convinced it was actually delivered at the date stated. There's a communal postbox area so we don't check it daily. The point being there's a distinct possibility he delivered it past the notice period required. Of course proving it would be another thing.

Gumbo

Jazzzman wrote: »

I guess the question is; under the new legislation being introduced, is the landlord entitled to do so?

The legislation is not in force yet, so the LL has not done anything illegal just yet.

Fol20

I dont think the new legislation is in yet however i am open to correction.

Paulw

Jazzzman wrote: »

Our lease renews every December.

Last November we were informed the rent would increase. Fine.

We received a letter this month informing us the rent would be rising again, and significantly so.

I guess the question is; under the new legislation being introduced, is the landlord entitled to do so?

No new legislation has come in to effect, so the old laws apply. He can review rent once every 12 months, in line with market rates in the area.

So, from what you have said, it doesn't look like he has done anything wrong, as long as the increase is in line with market rates (which have recently shot up).

Jazzzman

Thanks folks.

handlemaster

He hasnt increased it in 2015 already so it's not relevant even if legislation were in acted