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Rent Increase thread

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    #152
    Jazzzman
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭Jazzzman


    handlemaster wrote: »
    He hasnt increased it in 2015 already so it's not relevant even if legislation were in acted

    If for arguments sake the legislation was introduced in November, then would we not have been covered by the new law of not being able to increase rent < 2 years?


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    #153
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Jazzzman wrote: »
    If for arguments sake the legislation was introduced in November, then would we not have been covered by the new law of not being able to increase rent < 2 years?

    No, just the law that stops more than one rent increase within 12 months.


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    #154
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    Jazzzman wrote: »
    If for arguments sake the legislation was introduced in November, then would we not have been covered by the new law of not being able to increase rent < 2 years?

    No. The two years only applies if the rent had been raised in 2015.


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    #155
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    No. The two years only applies if the rent had been raised in 2015.

    So my landlord can increase the rent in June 2016 as we only moved in during June 2015?


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    #156
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Lux23 wrote: »
    So my landlord can increase the rent in June 2016 as we only moved in during June 2015?

    Yes, correct.


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    #157
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    No. The two years only applies if the rent had been raised in 2015.

    |t also applies if the rent was set in 2015. That is if it ever becomes law.


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    #158
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Paulw wrote: »
    Yes, correct.

    Wrong.


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    #159
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    |t also applies if the rent was set in 2015. That is if it ever becomes law.

    I was responding to the poster whose LL had raised their rent in Nov 2014


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    #160
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    So if the rent was set and signed in 2014 but the lease was to start in 2015, can an increase be made?
    Even if the lease were signed on January 1st 2015 can (shouldn't) the landlord give their notification 28 days in advance of the the first day of the second year of lease? Using the 1st of January as an example, wouldn't that mean the landlord should give notice by the the 4th of December?


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    #161
    Selik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Selik


    cerastes wrote: »
    So if the rent was set and signed in 2014 but the lease was to start in 2015, can an increase be made?
    Even if the lease were signed on January 1st 2015 can (shouldn't) the landlord give their notification 28 days in advance of the the first day of the second year of lease? Using the 1st of January as an example, wouldn't that mean the landlord should give notice by the the 4th of December?

    I'm still waiting on a concrete answer myself to this question and for the last 3 weeks between here and the Property Pin there has yet to be definitive clarification.

    The question really should be - Does a rent review in advance of a change of rent count as the last rent increase date or is it the actual month of the increase. It has to be one or the other and if it's the actual month then there needs to be further clarification if the actual debit date is to considered the increase date. That doesn't really make sense to me if that's the case as a rent review legally has to be 28 days minimum before the increase date.

    Anybody???


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    #162
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    The answer to that is very important for anyone who reviewed rent late in 2014 with the increase kicking in on Jan 1st 2015.

    Wish someone knew the answer!


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    #163
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    Giles wrote: »
    I'm still waiting on a concrete answer myself to this question and for the last 3 weeks between here and the Property Pin there has yet to be definitive clarification . . .

    Anybody???
    April 73 wrote: »
    The answer to that is very important for anyone who reviewed rent late in 2014 with the increase kicking in on Jan 1st 2015.

    Wish someone knew the answer!

    Nobody knows except Alan Kelly, and he's not telling. This uncertainty which he has personally created is a major factor in driving up rents. No landlord wants to be caught out when whatever brainwave he finally gets Michael Noonan to agree to comes into effect.


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    #164
    Selik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Selik


    April 73 wrote: »
    The answer to that is very important for anyone who reviewed rent late in 2014 with the increase kicking in on Jan 1st 2015.

    Wish someone knew the answer!

    Exactly, I'm in that exact situation with my tenants and neither of us know where we all stand. Will of course be fully complying with whatever the regulations are but we really need the detail here and there's simply none as of yet - just peoples opinions which all seem to differ, obviously.


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    #165
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    April 73 wrote: »
    The answer to that is very important for anyone who reviewed rent late in 2014 with the increase kicking in on Jan 1st 2015.

    Wish someone knew the answer!

    Notification can be given now of an increase to take place on 1st Jan 2016. the legislation has not been enacted and there is a presumption against retrospectivity. That would be the legal position but no doubt the PRTB will be asked to rule on this afterwards. The trouble is that a landlord refused an increase would have to go to the High Court in order to overturn any adverse finding by the PRTB. Unless one of the bigger multiple landlords decide its worth it, there will never be complete legal certainty about this.


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    #166
    tharmor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭tharmor


    Paulw wrote:
    Yes, correct.

    Thats not true....if its anew lease..rents will not increase for 2 years afaik !


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    #167
    Selik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Selik


    Well.... the Residential Tenancies Bill is being signed into law today, does anybody know where I can read the actual bill itself?


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    #168
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    It looks like the Dáil deputies had difficulty understanding what was going on themselves yesterday!
    Seems to me from a very quick skim of those proceedings that any rent notification already given & valid under the old law (12 months since last review, valid notice period, market rate) will stand. Open to correction of course.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2015-12-01a.466


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    #169
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    April 73 wrote: »
    It looks like the Dáil deputies had difficulty understanding what was going on themselves yesterday!
    Seems to me from a very quick skim of those proceedings that any rent notification already given & valid under the old law (12 months since last review, valid notice period, market rate) will stand. Open to correction of course.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2015-12-01a.466

    From a very quick skim myself, I interpreted that the 12 months notice period does not stand? Also open to correction. I think it would be very good if the annual review remained as this has put a serious concern into the minds of landlords.
    It would have been much better if any legislation changes improved the ability to deal with bad landlords and bad tenants promptly.


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    #170
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    It looks like the 12 months doesn't stand post-amendments to the bill but anyone who notified a rent increase before the amendments under the old 12 months review period does stand.
    So from now on its 24 months but prior to the amendments being signed into law 12 months stood.
    Again - only my interpretation.


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    #171
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Giles wrote: »
    Well.... the Residential Tenancies Bill is being signed into law today, does anybody know where I can read the actual bill itself?

    It won't be a Bill after it is signed.


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    #172
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    It won't be a Bill after it is signed.

    So is it signed into law yet as an Act or SI? and when did this occur? or has it occurred yet?
    I'm trying to determine when it will or has become effective.


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    #173
    Selik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Selik


    April 73 wrote: »
    It looks like the 12 months doesn't stand post-amendments to the bill but anyone who notified a rent increase before the amendments under the old 12 months review period does stand.
    So from now on its 24 months but prior to the amendments being signed into law 12 months stood.
    Again - only my interpretation.

    Here is the official document and while it gives scenarios as examples, it STILL doesn't clear up the issue of whether a notice to increase before the act came in is valid even if the increase doesn't kick in until 2016 - unless I'm missing something?

    http://www.prtb.ie/docs/default-source/press-releases/stabilising-rents-boosting-supply.pdf?sfvrsn=0

    I might just call the PRTB tomorrow and see if they can give me straight answer!


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    #174
    JaMarcusHustle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭JaMarcusHustle


    Finding it hard to get a definitive answer on this but just wondering - lease signed in January 2015. Coming up to the end of that lease now, we want to stay on in the apartment but can the landlord increase our rent? Not sure how (or if at all) the 2 year rent freeze that came into law last week is applicable. We haven't received any notification, just wondering so we can know what to expect thanks.


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    #175
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Anyone know if its been enacted?


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    #176
    Selik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Selik


    cerastes wrote: »
    Anyone know if its been enacted?

    I spoke to somebody in the PRTB yesterday and she said that the legislation still hasn't been signed into law yet.... and she didn't know when. Go figure!


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    #177
    ash xxx
    Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭ash xxx


    cerastes wrote: »
    Anyone know if its been enacted?

    It was apparently enacted on Friday night, I know the President signed it into law on Friday. I had been anxiously emailing Alan Kelly's office trying to find out, as our lease is due for renewal in January.

    See Indo article here


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    #178
    Selik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Selik


    ash xxx wrote: »
    It was apparently enacted on Friday night, I know the President signed it into law on Friday. I had been anxiously emailing Alan Kelly's office trying to find out, as our lease is due for renewal in January.

    See Indo article here

    So the PRTB are talking complete rubbish then? She woman I spoke to was genuinely very insistent that the bill hadn't yet been signed despite reports to the contrary, like that Times article.


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    #179
    slayerking
    Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭slayerking


    Giles wrote: »
    So the PRTB are talking complete rubbish then? She woman I spoke to was genuinely very insistent that the bill hadn't yet been signed despite reports to the contrary, like that Times article.

    There's also an update on citizens information website stating the new legislation was signed into law on the 4th, but they haven't updated the website yet.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html


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    #180
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    slayerking wrote: »
    There's also an update on citizens information website stating the new legislation was signed into law on the 4th, but they haven't updated the website yet.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html
    Page 1902.
    http://www.irisoifigiuil.ie/currentissues/IR081215.pdf


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    #181
    joxer1988
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭joxer1988


    http://www.prtb.ie/media-research/news-centre/latest-news/2015/12/04/new-amendments-to-the-legislation-on-rent-increases-and-notices-of-termination

    http://www.moneyguideireland.com/new-rules-on-restricting-rent-increases.html


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