Rent Increase thread

Selik

Well finally some clarity:

(From The Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012)

a) The duration allowed between rent reviews has been extended from 12 months to 24 months. This change will be put in place for 4 years, after which the duration between reviews will go back to 12 months.
A Landlord can only increase the rent once in any 24 month period, and cannot increase it within 12 months of the commencement of the tenancy.
Note – A landlord who has legitimately commenced a rent review prior to the enactment of the new legislation (Dec 4th) is entitled to complete that statutory review process.

joxer1988

Giles wrote: »

Well finally some clarity:

(From The Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012)

a) The duration allowed between rent reviews has been extended from 12 months to 24 months. This change will be put in place for 4 years, after which the duration between reviews will go back to 12 months.
A Landlord can only increase the rent once in any 24 month period, and cannot increase it within 12 months of the commencement of the tenancy.
Note – A landlord who has legitimately commenced a rent review prior to the enactment of the new legislation (Dec 4th) is entitled to complete that statutory review process.

I think this ^bolded part may be incorrect as section 20 of the RTA now should be:

20.—(1) Subject to subsection (3), a review of the rent under the tenancy of a dwelling may not occur—

(a) more frequently than once in each period of 12 months, nor

(b) in the period of 12 months beginning on the commencement of the tenancy.

(2) Subsection (1) has effect notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in the lease or tenancy agreement concerned.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply despite the fact that a period of less than 12 months has elapsed from—

(a) the last review of the rent under the tenancy, or

(b) the commencement of the tenancy,

if, in that period—

(i) a substantial change in the nature of the accommodation provided under the tenancy occurs, and

(ii) the rent under the tenancy, were it to be set immediately after that change, would, by virtue of that change, be different to what was the market rent for the tenancy at the time of that last review or the commencement of the tenancy, as the case may be.

plus the Section 20 amendment:

(1) Section 20 of the Principal Act is amended by inserting the following subsections
after subsection (3):
“(4) The references to ‘12 months’ in—
(a) paragraphs (a) and (b) of subsection (1), and
(b) subsection (3),
shall, for the duration of the relevant period, be construed as
references to ‘24 months’.

So basically, where it said "12 months", it now says "24 months" - for the next 4 years.

Can anyone verify for me?

Jaketherake

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Finding it hard to get a definitive answer on this but just wondering - lease signed in January 2015. Coming up to the end of that lease now, we want to stay on in the apartment but can the landlord increase our rent? Not sure how (or if at all) the 2 year rent freeze that came into law last week is applicable. We haven't received any notification, just wondering so we can know what to expect thanks.

According to the examples the text the LL cant raise your rent in Jan 2016

Read example 2.

http://www.prtb.ie/docs/default-source/press-releases/stabilising-rents-boosting-supply.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Jaketherake

So now it looks like if a LL has to give 3 months notice he has to guess what the market rate will be then.

unless it works like this
lets say he is increasing the rent on 1st April.
On 1st Jan he gives notice that the rent will be increasing on 1st April in line with market rates.
So he waits until closer to April to say how much the rent will actually be as he cant possibly know what it should be, nor provide proof of what it will be when he gives the notice.

Or does he just see what the rate of change has been and use that to predict what the rent will be in 3 months time and stick that in the samples he is sending the PRTB.

This whole thing is very poorly thought out.

Selik

Ok so my tenants have been onto Threshold and this is what they have said:


Thank you for contacting Threshold.

New legislation came into effect on December 4th 2015 stating that rent can now only be reviewed once ever 24 months and there must be written notice with a period of 90 days. Therefore as your rent was increased in January 2015 your rent CANNOT now be increased again until January 2017 you are covered by new legislation to avoid a rent increase in the coming year. This is not negotiable, this is the law. As your rent review is not due until January and the legislation was passed in December your landlord must now wait until January 2017.

I had a feeling things would go down this road! They are referring to the rent review being in January but the review has never been in January - always November/December with the increase kicking in the following January.

I might give them a call tomorrow as this directly contradicts what the PRTB have said to me and also the general consensus on the legislation.

Jaketherake

Giles wrote: »

Ok so my tenants have been onto Threshold and this is what they have said:


Thank you for contacting Threshold.

New legislation came into effect on December 4th 2015 stating that rent can now only be reviewed once ever 24 months and there must be written notice with a period of 90 days. Therefore as your rent was increased in January 2015 your rent CANNOT now be increased again until January 2017 you are covered by new legislation to avoid a rent increase in the coming year. This is not negotiable, this is the law. As your rent review is not due until January and the legislation was passed in December your landlord must now wait until January 2017.

I had a feeling things would go down this road! They are referring to the rent review being in January but the review has never been in January - always November/December with the increase kicking in the following January.

I might give them a call tomorrow as this directly contradicts what the PRTB have said to me and also the general consensus on the legislation.

There was a program on RTE where threshold advised someone who was being evicted to overhold. I wouldnt believe a word out of threshold. They just make it up as they go along.

Selik

Yeah I'm aware that Threshold are known for being a bit fast and loose with their advice alright.

I'd rather not go down the PRTB route if at all possible (never had to before) but if I'm left with no other option then so be it.

Is there anybody here who can specifically quote the new legislation where it states that a legitimate rent review before the act came in still stands? I've searched the actual bill itself (using keywords) and found some vague references but hard to really make sense of them.

Sarn

I would agree with the PRTB's advice. I can't see how a legitimate rent review that was initiated before the amendment to the legislation came in to force can be ignored. Threshold's interpretation does not seem to be correct. If you can demonstrate that you have always given the same notice period for the rent review then there should be no issue. That's speaking as a tenant.

4ensic15

Sarn wrote: »

I would agree with the PRTB's advice. I can't see how a legitimate rent review that was initiated before the amendment to the legislation came in to force can be ignored. Threshold's interpretation does not seem to be correct. If you can demonstrate that you have always given the same notice period for the rent review then there should be no issue. That's speaking as a tenant.

It all turns on the meaning of review. Review means (in this context) an increase. It does not mean consider or notify.

Selik

4ensic15 wrote: »

It all turns on the meaning of review. Review means (in this context) an increase. It does not mean consider or notify.

Exactly, however there doesn't seem to a definitive answer on this anywhere. Can anybody answer with direct reference to the bill itself?

April 73

Giles wrote: »

Well finally some clarity:

(From The Residential Tenancies (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012)

a) The duration allowed between rent reviews has been extended from 12 months to 24 months. This change will be put in place for 4 years, after which the duration between reviews will go back to 12 months.
A Landlord can only increase the rent once in any 24 month period, and cannot increase it within 12 months of the commencement of the tenancy.
Note – A landlord who has legitimately commenced a rent review prior to the enactment of the new legislation (Dec 4th) is entitled to complete that statutory review process.

This sounds to me as though in cases where notice of a rent change has been given prior to Dec 4th that it is valid to proceed.
But it's not completely clear. What exactly is a rent review? The actual date the rent will change or notice of the intention to change?
I think it must be notice of intention to change as that gives time for the tenant to dispute the rise with the PRTB as part of the "statutory review process".

AnthonyOD1987

Quick question that may have been asked in another thread, I currently rent a house where the lease is a 12 month term. I understand that the rent can only be increased once every 24 months, seen as the lease is only 12 months could the landlord come back when the lease expired next December, set a new lease then with increased rent . technically could this be classified as a new lease?

tharmor

Folks I am in process of signing a new lease......the lease agreement document is some template dated 2005.....hope its fine or do I need to get a latest template ?

Can anyone shade light please ? TIA !

madfcuker

Hi All,
So the moment has come that I have be dreading for the last year. I got notice of rent increase. My rent is increasing from 700 to 820 a month from January. Letter was dated 15/12/2015 and rent is due on the 10th of the month.

Just looking for some clarification on 2 things, how much notice period should be given of rent increase, been living here for over 6 years and how much notice period should be given to state I am moving out.

Gumbo

madfcuker wrote: »

Hi All,
So the moment has come that I have be dreading for the last year. I got notice of rent increase. My rent is increasing from 700 to 820 a month from January. Letter was dated 15/12/2015 and rent is due on the 10th of the month.

Just looking for some clarification on 2 things, how much notice period should be given of rent increase, been living here for over 6 years and how much notice period should be given to state I am moving out.

90 days notice of rent increase.
Sounds like you have Part IV tenancy and over 4 years occupancy so if 4 or more years: 112 days notice.

Worth pointing out that you should not rush decisions. Make sure you can get a similar place for lower rent before moving out and the. Realizing you had a good deal.

otwb1

it's 90 days now (new legislation from the 5th December). check out prtb.ie

star_spotter

otwb1 wrote: »

it's 90 days now (new legislation from the 5th December). check out prtb.ie

this is correct , its now ninety days

star_spotter

madfcuker wrote: »

Hi All,
So the moment has come that I have be dreading for the last year. I got notice of rent increase. My rent is increasing from 700 to 820 a month from January. Letter was dated 15/12/2015 and rent is due on the 10th of the month.

Just looking for some clarification on 2 things, how much notice period should be given of rent increase, been living here for over 6 years and how much notice period should be given to state I am moving out.

what part of the country is that and what kind of property roughly ? ( if you dont mind me asking )

Tar.Aldarion

otwb1 wrote: »

it's 90 days now (new legislation from the 5th December). check out prtb.ie

What if somebody got notice in november?

Nevermind I see here that is teh old perod of notice.

http://www.prtb.ie/search-results/news/article/2015/12/04/new-amendments-to-the-legislation-on-rent-increases-and-notices-of-termination-effective-from-4th-december-2015

madfcuker

Thanks for clarifying this for me. The rent increase was coming. I've been paying under market value for a couple of years now. The rent increase is in line for similar properties in the area.

Will try and negotiate with LL. I will make sure all communications will be recorded.

madfcuker

madfcuker wrote: »

Will try and negotiate with LL. I will make sure all communications will be recorded.

This increase will be the only one that the landlord is allowed for two years so he may negotiate tougher than previously.

newacc2015

madfcuker wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying this for me. The rent increase was coming. I've been paying under market value for a couple of years now. The rent increase is in line for similar properties in the area.

Will try and negotiate with LL. I will make sure all communications will be recorded.

Generally negotiating only works when you have the upper hand. Im sorry but you dont. The landlord could easily fill that place at €820 a month. You even said yourself that you are paying below market rate. Plus your landlord is locked into €820 for the next 2 years. Why do you think he will settle for a below market rate for the next 2 years?

uck51js9zml2yt

When was the last increase?

Whyner

I'm sure this has been answered already but I couldn't find it with a quick glance

We sign a new contract every year, probably because our rent has also increased every year, we've been there since June 2011 (4.5 years)

Can our rent be increased? They've put it up again with new lease starting Jan 6th

Nice wan

SteelyDanJalapeno

Is 920 a month for a 2 story house 3 doubles and a single (Box Room) good value in Cork City?

Whyner

Whyner wrote: »

I'm sure this has been answered already but I couldn't find it with a quick glance

We sign a new contract every year, probably because our rent has also increased every year, we've been there since June 2011 (4.5 years)

Can our rent be increased? They've put it up again with new lease starting Jan 6th

Nice wan

They emailed us re the increase on Dec 3rd but we did not receive any formal written notice until the 7th. According to PTRB, formal written is the only valid notice method

Selik

Whyner wrote: »

They emailed us re the increase on Dec 3rd but we did not receive any formal written notice until the 7th. According to PTRB, formal written is the only valid notice method

I think emails may suffice (they certainly should) or at least that's what I've heard, however you still got a letter and if it's 28 days before the increase then it's valid. When was your last rent review?

ford2600

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Is 920 a month for a 2 story house 3 doubles and a single (Box Room) good value in Cork City?

Where in Cork City is it?

Sounds good, would be a lot more in certain areas. IPrices have gone up a lot in last 2 years

Selik

Whyner wrote: »

They emailed us re the increase on Dec 3rd but we did not receive any formal written notice until the 7th. According to PTRB, formal written is the only valid notice method

I think emails may suffice (they certainly should) or at least that's what I've heard, however you still got a letter and if it's 28 days before the increase then it's valid. When was your last rent review?

Whyner

Giles wrote: »

I think emails may suffice (they certainly should) or at least that's what I've heard, however you still got a letter and if it's 28 days before the increase then it's valid. When was your last rent review?

We signed our last lease starting Jan 6th 2015