Lurker's Log

aquinn

Heya, well done on week 1, day 1.

Am certainly no expert on marathon training plans but opinion is that P&D for a novice isn't recommended. I followed the Boards plan, well I thought I had perfectly but don't worry about that bit for the minute. Did you find a meno draft plan or the boards plan for this year. Both excellent plans.

If happy then current plan please ignore as I think you are doing the 30-35 week?

If not or have questions if suitable maybe ask for opinions from experienced folk.

mbarr

aquinn wrote: »

Heya, well done on week 1, day 1.

Am certainly no expert on marathon training plans but opinion is that P&D for a novice isn't recommended.

Thanks A! Yeah, as Dubgal (I think) said over the weekend, the clue is in the name of the book

I've checked out the boards plan, will do some digging for the meno plan this weekend.

Murph_D

mbarr wrote: »

Thanks A! Yeah, as Dubgal (I think) said over the weekend, the clue is in the name of the book

I've checked out the boards plan, will do some digging for the meno plan this weekend.

It was me with the "clue is in the title" comment, but I wouldn't be surprised if DG said that too. P&D is a great plan, and I'm planning to start it myself next week, but a good few boards runners have struggled with it on a second marathon, never mind the first. I'd think if you have the suggested base mileage and are very comfortable with the various sessions/paces you might be OK but agree with aquinn that the novice plan, which is a variation I think of the original "career move" edition of the meno plan, might be a better experience for a first timer. It's certainly enough to deliver the kind of time you probably have in mind.

The Meno plan, which I used myself for my last three marathon cycles, is here. A great plan - lots of marathon pace running in it and it will certainly help build the required endurance.

All the best with it, whatever you decide.

mbarr

That Meno plan looks perfect! Don't know why I didn't come across it before! Loads of variety and lots of tempo while keeping the mileage about where I am now which is what I was looking for.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll be transitioning over to that next week for sure.

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

That Meno plan looks perfect! Don't know why I didn't come across it before! Loads of variety and lots of tempo while keeping the mileage about where I am now which is what I was looking for.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll be transitioning over to that next week for sure.

I'm doing that plan too mbarr, good luck with it, a lot of people here have had success with it.

mbarr

First week done, stuck to the first week of P&D slowed down to the paces specified by meno.

Thursday: 9 miles easy (9:43min/mi)
Saturday: 4 miles easy (9:43min/mi)
Sunday: 12 miles easy (9:33min/mi)

Christmas party season has meant very little sleep so I'm glad of the relatively gentle start.

This week is week 1 of my actual plan (which I've more or less stolen from Firedance as I also can't run on Wednesdays). Tune up races will probably be Trim and the Carlingford HM.

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

First week done, stuck to the first week of P&D slowed down to the paces specified by meno.

Thursday: 9 miles easy (9:43min/mi)
Saturday: 4 miles easy (9:43min/mi)
Sunday: 12 miles easy (9:33min/mi)

Christmas party season has meant very little sleep so I'm glad of the relatively gentle start.

This week is week 1 of my actual plan (which I've more or less stolen from Firedance as I also can't run on Wednesdays). Tune up races will probably be Trim and the Carlingford HM.

possibly the first time anyone's ever stolen anything (running related) from me

I see you're doing Rotterdam? get over here and add your name to the list! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98069390#post98069390

mbarr

Week 17.
Monday: 3 miles easy
Tuesday: 4 miles easy
Thursday: Session
2 mi w/u
8 mins @ 8:30
8 mins @ 7:55
8 mins @7:29
8 mins @ 6:57
2 mi c/d

The progressive session went very well, felt comfortable enough throughout and really happy that my last 8 mins was more 5k pace than 10k. Made the decision to skip the Friday recovery run as I was travelling home, and felt fine anyhow.

Saturday: 5 miles easy

My Sunday long run didn't happen due to a horrendous hangover, luckily I had today off work so got 14 easy miles in this morning. Getting the miles in over Christmas is proving as challenging as I imagined it would be. This week has a monster session (3x2miles tempo) on Christmas eve
and a 16 mile run on the day after St. Stephens Day. Hmmmm.

mbarr

Tuesday: 4.3 miles @9:28 avg HR 134 (average HR is definitely coming down for the easy runs which is nice)
Wednesday 5 miles easy with 6x100m strides
Thursday: Session, 3x2mile tempo (target pace 7:20)
2 mi w/u
2 mi @ 7:16
2 mi @ 7:14
2 mi @ 7:10
2 mi c/d

Really enjoyed the session, took a while to warm to the pace but halfway through the second 2 miles it seemed to click and I wasn't dying for it to finish.

Christmas day recovery run, something easy on St Stephen's day, and then 16 miles on Sunday to look forward to. Two laps of Knocknarea. Be grand! :eek:

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

Tuesday: 4.3 miles @9:28 avg HR 134 (average HR is definitely coming down for the easy runs which is nice)
Wednesday 5 miles easy with 6x100m strides
Thursday: Session, 3x2mile tempo (target pace 7:20)
2 mi w/u
2 mi @ 7:16
2 mi @ 7:14
2 mi @ 7:10
2 mi c/d

Really enjoyed the session, took a while to warm to the pace but halfway through the second 2 miles it seemed to click and I wasn't dying for it to finish.

Christmas day recovery run, something easy on St Stephen's day, and then 16 miles on Sunday to look forward to. Two laps of Knocknarea. Be grand! :eek:

Snap looking forward to the 16 miles, hope the weather plays ball! Happy Christmas

mbarr

Yeah this week has been so nice after the horrendous December we've been having! Happy Christmas to you too, good luck with the long run

Murph_D

Nice going Mark, I always found that progression run session you did last week very tough but you nailed it!

mbarr

Murph_D wrote: »

Nice going Mark, I always found that progression run session you did last week very tough but you nailed it!

Thanks D Happy enough with progress so far.

Week 2 completed, longest run ever, highest mileage week ever, longest session, first time running every day in a week, and it's Christmas!

Friday: 4 recovery
Saturday: 3 steady
Sunday: 16 mile long run @ 8:30

Long run was way too fast, especially given that it was a very hilly route. I did the first 8 miles alone, then my brother joined me for the last 8. I watched Chariots of Fire last night and I had the theme running through my head accompanied by wave after wave of euphoria. Thanks very much! Come for the scenery, stay for the endorphins. Not sure if it's normal to feel off your face as much as I seem to during my long runs but I'll take it

So next week is a mini step back week, then things start getting serious with 18 mile long runs back to back weeks, MP miles during long runs, races.

Murph_D

Love that film, and yes that's way, waay too fast. It's important to get this right early on, I feel. So many runners get it wrong first time out. Careful now!

mbarr

Murph_D wrote: »

Love that film, and yes that's way, waay too fast. It's important to get this right early on, I feel. So many runners get it wrong first time out. Careful now!

Yeah thanks D, I will cop myself on for the next one. 18 miles in early Jan, I'm going to set an alarm to keep the pace correct.

Monday: 4 miles easy
Tuesday: 4 miles easy with 6x10second hill sprints.

Hill sprints were interesting, hadn't done anything like that before. Enjoyable enough, wasn't sure whether to treat them like strides and recover fully or like intervals with timed recovery so ended up jogging slowly back downhill and then starting again, probably 30-45 sec recovery.

mbarr

Thursday: 10x400m @3k pace with 1 min recovery
Set off on the first of these way too quickly but settled in and enjoyed them, haven't done intervals in ages so it was a nice change. Took full standing recovery for the first time, I'd usually jog but with these being run a touch faster than I've gone over 400m I thought spending the minute standing still was the way to go.
Splits
1:31, 1:36, 1:36, 1:36, 1:35, 1:37, 1:37, 1:35, 1:37, 1:34

So a lovely run to finish off my first year of running, 810 miles ran since June, something I started just to try to finish the Warriors Run without dying has turned into what I hope will be a lifelong hobby/minor obsession. Thanks to everyone on here for your advice and encouragement, hoping to see you all out there in 2016

mbarr

Today, 10 miles with 6@PMP (~7:51) in Phoenix Park in the glorious morning weather, it felt amazing to feel the sun on my skin while running again!
went very well, PMP miles flew by, not easy, not hard, not going to torture myself too much with doubts at this stage.

That's the third week of the Meno plan completed, loving every minute of it, looking forward to the 18 miler next weekend so I can set the right (slow) pace for the rest of the LSRs. The idea of a 90 minute progression run scared the living sh1te out of me when I saw the plan, just looked it up and am very relieved to see that includes the warm up and cool down!

mbarr

Monday: 4 miles easy (9:29)
Tuesday: 6 miles easy with strides (9:24)

Thursday: progression session:
20 minutes w/u (9:17)
20 minutes steady (8:22)
20 minutes PMP (7:52)
10 minutes HMP (7:13)
20 minutes c/d (9:03)

All felt well except the steady, which felt neither here nor there and I couldn't get into a rhythm with it, was delighted when the 20 mins was up and I could get up to MP.

My garmin now supports more running dynamics, which now tells me
I spend 52% of my time on my right foot and 48% on my left, getting worse as I ran faster (most of my other run dynamics like vertical oscillation and cadence get "better" with increased pace). As with all garmin run dynamics, I'm not really sure what to do with this new information.

mbarr

Friday: 5 miles recovery
Saturday: 5 miles easy (@8:49)

Sunday: 18 miles easy (@9:21)
Headed off fairly early for this one, met with Firedance reasonably randomly which was lovely, nice to meet you FD! really great to meet one of the Rotterdam-bound crew. First few miles ticked along nicely chatting away.

I'm not sure if it's the training, the week off the drink, or the fact that I ran my 16 mile way too fast over Sligo hills but this felt great. Didn't look at my pace at all, I had the watch set to yell at me if my HR went over 140 (75% of my MHR, Meno's recommendation for easy runs, is 136 which turned out to be my average HR for the run) Occasionally strayed over 80% MHR when going up some of the steeper hills but overall fairly happy this was a good LSR pace.

Realised this evening that my wall schedule that I'm ticking off the runs on is missing a week between now and the Trim 10 mile, delighted about that! Mind you it is the week with the first 20 mile run so maybe I shouldn't be.

Firedance

Good job keeping things nice & easy, it'll make all the difference as the runs get longer! See you next time

13 weeks to go :eek:

mbarr

Mon: 3 miles easy
Tue: 3 miles easy

Thursday: 13.1 miles with 2x4mi @PMP
Ran in snowy conditions for the first time, resisted the urge to put my leggings on as I've not worn them for a session before and I didn't know if they would chaff or not.

The session went well, I found it a little difficult to get up to PMP for the first mile or two but it clicked eventually. second set was hilly, ended up running up the Kyber for the first time in mile 3 of that, happy to be able to keep the pace up without killing myself. Noticed on the way home that I was just shy of a half, so ran an extra bit around stoneybatter to make up the distance.

Couldn't get my keys out when I got home, when I did get them out I couldn't turn them in the lock, I think I was clenching my fists with the cold.

Looking forward to Sunday, and meeting some more Rotterdam-bound folk

Murph_D

You're going well, M. Nice work.

mbarr

Murph_D wrote: »

You're going well, M. Nice work.

Thanks D

Friday: 4 miles recovery
Saturday: 3 miles easy

Much tougher mentally getting out for the super short runs, especially in the cold where you know you're never really going to warm up. Looking forward to spring for that alone, pleasant short runs.

Really looking forward to tomorrow's run, meeting Tang1 for part of it which will be great.

ThebitterLemon

mbarr wrote: »

Thanks D

Friday: 4 miles recovery
Saturday: 3 miles easy

Much tougher mentally getting out for the super short runs, especially in the cold where you know you're never really going to warm up. Looking forward to spring for that alone, pleasant short runs.

[/B]Really looking forward to tomorrow's run, meeting Tang1 for part of it which will be great.[/QUOTE]

Enjoy the anticipation the actuality is rather anti climatic

TbL

mbarr

Sunday: Long run, 18 miles with last [EMAIL="3@PMP"]3@PMP[/EMAIL]

Met Tang1 for this one, left the house a bit early for a mile or two around Stoneybatter before heading in to the park where Tang1 and Firedance were waiting, FD was meeting running mates over at Castleknock gate 10 minutes later (I thought she was going to sprint across before her 18 mile run but sensibly she was driving)

Tang1 and I headed off for two laps of inner perimeter of the park, heading onto the trails at Ashtown gate and staying on until Knockmaroon gate, mucky in patches but not too bad. Great company and conversation, didn't notice the time going at all. I've been reflecting on how amazing this forum has been, I'm not sure I ever would have "got" running if not for reading people's logs and threads like the DCM novices thread here, and now meeting some of you in person and going for long runs in sound company, without being too gushy it's just great

Got the last three up to PMP, it was interesting running relatively fast on tired legs, good experience. Developed a blister on my little toe during the fast miles, pretty sure it was the super cushioned merino wool socks I was wearing, good for long slow, not great for speed. Good to find these things out!
15 miles @9:15, Avg. HR: 137
3 miles @ 7:45 Avg. HR: 154

First of four 20+ mile runs coming up next weekend, it'll be great to have one down.

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

I thought she was going to sprint across before her 18 mile run but sensibly she was driving

I should have told you 2 miles @ 5K pace was part of the plan

mbarr wrote: »

meeting some of you in person and going for long runs in sound company, without being too gushy it's just great

Obviously you're referring to last week when you ran with me? am just kidding, tang is much better company

mbarr wrote: »

Got the last three up to PMP, it was interesting running relatively fast on tired legs, good experience.

15 miles @9:15, Avg. HR: 137
3 miles @ 7:45 Avg. HR: 154

hats off to you, I couldn't do the last mile, I won't be letting that happen again though...

mbarr wrote: »

First of four 20+ mile runs coming up next weekend, it'll be great to have one down.

:eek:

nice to see you again yesterday

mbarr

Monday: 5 miles easy
Tuesday: 5 miles easy with dog

Thursday: 14 miles with 8 alternating,
splits:
8:14
7:30
8:14
7:21
8:19
7:23
8:04
7:21

I was having doubts about being able to keep up 7:20 for 13 miles, I have to keep reminding myself I'm not training for a half marathon. Blisters forming on my right little toe, on close inspection the whole toe is a bit mashed, the nail never came off and is now embedded sideways in the toe and hurts when I do anything except run. It seems to be the faster stuff that causes issues, and I think I'm done with fast until next Thursday so should be fine.

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

on close inspection the whole toe is a bit mashed, the nail never came off and is now embedded sideways in the toe and hurts when I do anything except run.

as long as you can run, nothing else matters (of course it would be better if it didn't hurt at all & hopefully you get it sorted)

great splits

mbarr

Firedance wrote: »

as long as you can run, nothing else matters (of course it would be better if it didn't hurt at all & hopefully you get it sorted)

great splits

Thanks FD I think I've tracked the problem down to my brooks Ravennas, I've only got 250 miles on them but they've been my go-to shoe for sessions, long runs and races and I think I need to mix it up a bit. Lanced the blister last night, did 4 miles recovery this morning in different shoes and all was well.

Good luck with your long run this Saturday, I like the idea of incorporating a parkrun into it, might try that for the next 20 mile.

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

did 4 miles recovery this morning in different shoes and all was well.

Good luck with your long run this Saturday, I like the idea of incorporating a parkrun into it, might try that for the next 20 mile.

good you too!! am hoping the company will help and its sort of breaks up the run a bit.

Are you doing Trim 10 mile race too?