Lurker's Log

Firedance

how are the feet Mark? any improvement?

mbarr

Firedance wrote: »

how are the feet Mark? any improvement?

Better today FD, thanks for asking Got a bit of a shock, hoping a few days off will resolve. Initially had pains in my right foot, which is now fine, but my left foot started showing classic symptoms (according to dr. google) of PF. It's noticeable but not horrendous. Don't know how much is my post race mind going nuts or if it's the beginning of an injury.

Out of interest had you planned 20 miles for sunday, 10 easy 10 steady? Or 18 with 3x2 at MP?

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

Better today FD, thanks for asking Got a bit of a shock, hoping a few days off will resolve. Initially had pains in my right foot, which is now fine, but my left foot started showing classic symptoms (according to dr. google) of PF. It's noticeable but not horrendous. Don't know how much is my post race mind going nuts or if it's the beginning of an injury.

I don't want to make things worse but this is exactly what happened to me when training for DCM14, I ignored it pretty much and ended up out for a long time, not to say that's whats going on with you but be careful, if you have a physio go to them this week, if you don't I can pm you a few very good ones.

mbarr wrote: »

Out of interest had you planned 20 miles for sunday, 10 easy 10 steady? Or 18 with 3x2 at MP?

I have 20 miles on my plan for this week, 10 easy, 10 steady. TBH if I were you I wouldn't consider doing anything like that number of miles, forget about trying to catch up on lost runs, the most important thing is make sure you don't aggravate the foot. A stitch in time saves nine n all that!

tang1

If it's the slightest hint of PF M go get it looked at, I like FD missed DCM due to a bad bout of it. I ignored it thinking I could run through it and made it worse, think I didn't run for the best part of 4 months because of it. Rolling a tennis ball along the sole of the affected foot is great for releasing the knots built up.

mbarr

Thanks guys, will go get it looked at. PMed you AM

denis b

Great run mbarr and with you on the pain/effort side of racing. Interesting angle on the idea of race-pain association and your idea of extinguishing same. Would be interested to hear your experiences about that.

Murph_D

Good luck with the physio. Early prevention and all that. Hopefully you'll be back on the road in no time.

mbarr

Thanks everybody, physio appointment was great, lots and lots of S&C exercises for me, a course of ibuprofin, no fast running for the next 3 weeks (when I'm headed back to him) but most importantly I can run easy with mileage as per plan so absolutely delighted about that!

Bought myself a new pair of Saucony Guide 8's last night to cheer myself up, gonna take them for a spin this evening

Thanks for the physio recommendation Firedance, and thanks everyone for the advice and personal experiences. Bit of a wake up call, I can't ignore S&C and stretching, too much at stake physically to be doing this half-arsed.

Firedance

Graat news! I bet they're the same exercises I got & they worked extremely well

tang1

Good stuff M, glad to see its nothing serious.

mbarr

Could have kissed the man. Anyhoo, I went straight out tonight and run a bit too fast. :rolleyes: Just so delighted to be running at all I got a bit carried away.

I went and bought a 2.7kg medicine ball in TK Maxx, S&C three times a week now. For folk running 6 days a week with a session and a long run, would you usually do this on your rest day, and the easy days not near the session? I have to admit my eyes usually skip over the details when I see S&C on other people's logs. Gonna have to pay a bit more attention now

The physio said my 10 mile race was a "spike" due to me suddenly increasing my pace over distance dramatically. I had always felt that of course in a race you would push yourself further and faster than you would in training, however if I look at the pace I was going in the 10 mile, 7:13, if i ran that in a 5k i'd be within a minute of my (not soft) PB, if I ran it in a 10k it'd be a 5 and a half minute PB. If I race a half during the rest of this cycle I reckon I'll forget about my PB entirely and run within myself, eyes on the prize (Rotterdam) and all that.

Firedance

Interestingly I just had that very conversation with a clubmate earlier (racing a half pre marathon) she will be agreeing with you running within yourself

'Re s&c I think you should ease into it, 3 times a week mid marathon training seems a lot to me, when I did those sessions I was 'off the road' but someone who's more experienced might answer better. Dont do a session the day before a run session or long run. There is an s&c thread on the main forum so pop in there & ask the guys, they're very experienced in this area.

mbarr

Great weekend of running, ~3 miles Saturday with the missus, impressed with her abilities in her first run apparently in years. She enjoyed it so much she joined me for my first 4 miles of Sunday's long run, where I subconsciously pushed her a bit harder and ran her up the Kyber, she still stuck with it though, great start to her possible running career

Headed back to the house with her to grab my gloves, something I'd be very glad of when the hail hit briefly. I didn't feel like running laps of the park so once I reached Castleknock gate I exited and headed off towards Clonsilla on an out and back aimless sort of run. Got as far as Clonsilla station (I think) when the hail hit, I realised I was totally lost, so retraced my steps back.

Very comfortable all the way through with the exception of the last two miles, looking at the splits I was speeding up for them so that's probably why.

That's the last of the 20 milers on the plan, the rest of the long runs are 18, 22, HM race, 18, 22, 16, 12, Marathon

Murph_D

The plan is designed around racing every 4-5 weeks so it's OK to race the races as long as you follow the schedules properly, taking the right 'alternative' weeks to match your race schedule. I queried this myself at the time and was encouraged by meno to race - in race weeks effectively the race is the session, and don't forget the recovery!

Re S&C I'd be very wary of introducing anything other than small changes to your routine at this stage. Only 8 weeks left. More than one runner around here has found themselves stretching, foam rolling, and conditioning themselves to an early retirement or lengthy injury spell. All good at the right time.

mbarr

Murph_D wrote: »

The plan is designed around racing every 4-5 weeks so it's OK to race the races as long as you follow the schedules properly, taking the right 'alternative' weeks to match your race schedule. I queried this myself at the time and was encouraged by meno to race - in race weeks effectively the race is the session, and don't forget the recovery!

Re S&C I'd be very wary of introducing anything other than small changes to your routine at this stage. Only 8 weeks left. More than one runner around here has found themselves stretching, foam rolling, and conditioning themselves to an early retirement or lengthy injury spell. All good at the right time.

Thanks D, I will take it handy on the S&C for sure. I think I'll try a S&C session once a week, and instead of heading back to physio after three weeks just do the next 3 weeks easy running only, then after the HM reintroduce some speed. Head back to him after marathon then for a look at how things are working.

Firedance

Murph_D wrote: »

The plan is designed around racing every 4-5 weeks so it's OK to race the races as long as you follow the schedules properly, taking the right 'alternative' weeks to match your race schedule. I queried this myself at the time and was encouraged by meno to race - in race weeks effectively the race is the session, and don't forget the recovery!

yes the plan is designed to race those races and I will be racing kinvara, however, caution is good too especially given your experience at trim, this is your first marathon and the goal is Rotterdam. My clubmate's argument was that not everyone can race a HM 5 weeks out from a marathon. She's not wrong but then neither is meno!! The best we can do, in my opinion, is listen to our own bodies and be smart enough to make adjustments if they're needed, which is something I was not 2 years ago.

great to see your other half joining in, she must have been swept up in the post Trim elation

mbarr

Firedance wrote: »

yes the plan is designed to race those races and I will be racing kinvara, however, caution is good too especially given your experience at trim, this is your first marathon and the goal is Rotterdam. My clubmate's argument was that not everyone can race a HM 5 weeks out from a marathon. She's not wrong but then neither is meno!! The best we can do, in my opinion, is listen to our own bodies and be smart enough to make adjustments if they're needed, which is something I was not 2 years ago.

great to see your other half joining in, she must have been swept up in the post Trim elation

Yeah I think I'm a lot less experienced than the target audience for Meno's plan. It has dawned on me since Trim that at the end of the day, I'm a novice, and probably would have done fine on the boards plan. I'm actually loving the easy running at the moment, initially I didn't think I could live without a speed session or lots of MP running, but now I just want to enjoy my first marathon, run a good race and finish strongly dying to do another.

Murph_D

mbarr wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm a lot less experienced than the target audience for Meno's plan. It has dawned on me since Trim that at the end of the day, I'm a novice, and probably would have done fine on the boards plan. I'm actually loving the easy running at the moment, initially I didn't think I could live without a speed session or lots of MP running, but now I just want to enjoy my first marathon, run a good race and finish strongly dying to do another.

Don't forget you started out on P&D!

You're well able for the meno plan. Could be wrong but I think that boards plan is a variation of it anyway. But yes - agree with the above, absolutely vital to bear injury and niggles in mind when deciding whether to race, do sessions, even long easy ones. First priority is always to make it to the goal race in one piece, as we all know.

Best of luck over the next phase. You're going well.

Singer

mbarr wrote: »

Yeah I think I'm a lot less experienced than the target audience for Meno's plan. It has dawned on me since Trim that at the end of the day, I'm a novice, and probably would have done fine on the boards plan. I'm actually loving the easy running at the moment, initially I didn't think I could live without a speed session or lots of MP running, but now I just want to enjoy my first marathon, run a good race and finish strongly dying to do another.

I think you're underselling yourself! I don't think it's surprising the day after a 20 mile run you're talking about taking it easier than originally planned

You've been following a plan pretty well, and I think following the novice plan would've been a little on the easy side for you. You won't be regretting the speed sessions and MP running during the marathon

mbarr

Thanks guys, I think it's becoming clear I go fairly batsh*t crazy after races! I'll be an emotional wreck after the marathon no doubt

mbarr

Fairly meh week last week, had a job interview on Friday that had me fairly disrupted. Ended up pushing my long run to today, very happy with how that went. 18 miles, alternating 2 easy 2MP. MP splits were 7:52, 7:52, 7:52 and 7:54. Delighted with that, was very tired finishing the last split but there was a fair amount of uphill in it.

That's my first long run with MP sections, so far so good, session to fit in later in the week with a continuous stretch of 10 MP miles so that should let me know where I am.

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

That's my first long run with MP sections, so far so good, session to fit in later in the week with a continuous stretch of 10 MP miles so that should let me know where I am.

:eek: :eek: scares the hec outta me!!!

well done on the long run

aquinn

That's a great run M, how's the foot/feet now?

mbarr

aquinn wrote: »

That's a great run M, how's the foot/feet now?

Cheers feet are a little stiff today, different problem to last time I think, my toes feel like I've smashed them with a hammer. Might need to look into lacing my shoes differently. Heel/arch feeling fine though so that's good.

aquinn

Do you do the heel lock/laces thing? Found it on the novices thread last year and it is great for anchoring foot. Turns out there are extra lace holes on runners and this is what you need them for.

mbarr

Yeah gonna give that a try, I remember reading about it on the novice thread. Cheers for the reminder!

aquinn

From your lurking days! :eek:

mbarr

Tried the heel lock laces there for my recovery run, seems like exactly what I needed. My brooks adrenalines that I usually only wear for <4 mile runs cos the toe box normally feels so tight actually felt comfortable! Looking forward to trying it on my good shoes for the session later in the week

mbarr

Thursday: 14 miles, 10@MP

Overcooked the MP section of this, still, felt fairly good throughout. Splits were 7:51, 7:54, 7:48, 7:52, 7:50, 8:01, 7:58, 7:43, 7:42, 7:45.

Really should be running MP more relaxed, closer to 8:00min/miles, I've got about 6 more weeks to get it right. Actually with taper really only 4 more weeks. The half next weekend should soften my cough a bit! I've decided Kinvara is handier than Carlingford (they're both shockingly awkward to get to) so I'm booked up, going to go to Sligo for the weekend and rob the parent's vehicle to spin down to K town. Hopefully see some familiar faces there

The lock laces were hugely successful, they work even better on my spacious sauconys. Toes still feel a bit bruised and battered, just the mileage I think.

tang1

Nice going M, if you need a lift if Sligo doesn't work out give me a shout. If not see you in Kinvara.