Lurker's Log

tailgunner

Well done on the PB - sounds like you really had to dig in to get away from the pacer group at the end. Nice going.

Singer

Nice running, sounds like a tough course and day to race. Looks like you finished pretty fast too!

My own HM plans are just to do the race series half in September, sub-1:30 would be nice alright

mbarr

Recovered well after Saturday's race, hilly 4 mile recovery on Sunday followed by a lovely seaweed bath. I was in Belfast for work on Monday and Tuesday, got a nice 4 mile run around the city (after being told which areas to avoid by a local!) and back to Phoenix Park last night for my usual out and back.

While I was in Belfast I realised I had brought everything for running except for my shorts, so I went short shopping and bought a pair of Ron Hill trail shorts for an eye-watering price, however they are lovely and have 4 elasticated loops for gels and an expandable back pocket, so I think they'll be my marathon day shorts. From reading a few reviews just now I might need to pin the gels as well as looping them.

12 miles easy tonight, going to enjoy the last easy MLR, Sunday this week marks the beginning of the end, the last ramp up in intensity that lasts about two and a half weeks before tapering.

Firedance

mbarr wrote: »

12 miles easy tonight, going to enjoy the last easy MLR, Sunday this week marks the beginning of the end, the last ramp up in intensity that lasts about two and a half weeks before tapering.

bring.it.on.

tang1

mbarr wrote: »

Recovered well after Saturday's race, hilly 4 mile recovery on Sunday followed by a lovely seaweed bath. I was in Belfast for work on Monday and Tuesday, got a nice 4 mile run around the city (after being told which areas to avoid by a local!) and back to Phoenix Park last night for my usual out and back.

While I was in Belfast I realised I had brought everything for running except for my shorts, so I went short shopping and bought a pair of Ron Hill trail shorts for an eye-watering price, however they are lovely and have 4 elasticated loops for gels and an expandable back pocket, so I think they'll be my marathon day shorts. From reading a few reviews just now I might need to pin the gels as well as looping them.

12 miles easy tonight, going to enjoy the last easy MLR, Sunday this week marks the beginning of the end, the last ramp up in intensity that lasts about two and a half weeks before the madness begins.

Just fixed that last bit for you!!

Younganne

mbarr wrote: »

12 miles easy tonight, going to enjoy the last easy MLR, Sunday this week marks the beginning of the end, the last ramp up in intensity that lasts about two and a half weeks before tapering.

Firedance wrote: »

bring.it.on.

tang1 wrote: »

Just fixed that last bit for you!!

Taper madness only affects the first marathon so we should be fine....well myself and FD :rolleyes: , you poor boys have it all to look forward to!!;):D

Firedance

tang1 wrote: »

Just fixed that last bit for you!!

I can't wait for the taper - I'm gonna sleep my way through those two weeks (and put my phone on silent!!)

glad to hear no ill affects from Satuday Mark, hope the feet are tip top.

Firedance

Younganne wrote: »

Taper madness only affects the first marathon so we should be fine....well myself and FD :rolleyes: , you poor boys have it all to look forward to!!;):D

*cough* so just Mark then *cough*

tang1

Firedance wrote: »

*cough* so just Mark then *cough*

Jaysis your getting worse AM your even coughing in your posts!!!

Firedance

tang1 wrote: »

Jaysis your getting worse AM your even coughing in your posts!!!

sorry yeah, maybe you're right I do need to go to the doctor!!!

Murph_D

Good stuff the other day, M, sounds like you learned a good bit despite the disappointing result, which was still a PB so not too shabby at all. I haven't had the pleasure of following many pacers but by all accounts they can be a bit hit and miss, but it's certainly good to know beforehand what their strategy is re hills, banking time, etc. You did well to hang on and finish ahead.

mbarr

Murph_D wrote: »

Good stuff the other day, M, sounds like you learned a good bit despite the disappointing result, which was still a PB so not too shabby at all. I haven't had the pleasure of following many pacers but by all accounts they can be a bit hit and miss, but it's certainly good to know beforehand what their strategy is re hills, banking time, etc. You did well to hang on and finish ahead.

Thanks D, and well done on your rather relaxed 10 mile PB in Ballycotton Sub 70 there for the taking next time.

yeah definitely a learning experience for me, glad I got away with it!

mbarr

12 miles just seems too temptingly close to 13.1 to ignore so I ran the extra 1.1. Really really lovely run, heart rate was behaving itself, toes felt good, and as I ran past the zoo at the end a lion gave a massive roar.

mbarr

Sunday: 18 miles with 10 @ PMP. Tough run today, was not well rested and fairly hungover from yesterday's festivities (surprise last minute tickets to the Italy match). No more drinking till Paddies day! (and after that none till after the marathon)

A gentle jogged first mile and my heart rate was already 10bpm faster than it should be so I knew this wouldn't be easy, but actually once up to MP it felt fine, all was well until I was about 400m from the end of the 10 miles, intense pain in the top of my right foot. Retied my laces and ran on, I think they were too tight as that seemed to fix it. Seems if they are too loose my toes get mashed, too tight and my top foot tendon thing doesn't like it.

One long (long) run left, 22 miles with stuff, which will have to be done in Sligo which means hills. Fun! nearly there though.

Murph_D

Hills are always good on the "with stuff" LRs (or any LR). Nice run yesterday.

mbarr

Very tough run today, the plan called for 14 miles with 10 alternating around MP. It did not call for drinking a rake of craft beer with work colleagues last night. Anyhow, not easy at all, but encouragingly the miles alternating slightly slower than MP felt recuperative. Had to cut the cooldown short by .7 of a mile annoyingly as I was rushing for a train.

Today was my 3rd fastest half, beating my time from the race series half by 3 minutes. Going to take that as a good sign too. Just two more terrifying runs on the plan, this time next week they'll be both done.

Happy St. Patrick's Day everyone!

tailgunner

Ha. I love the way every time you describe a run as being tough, the words "craft beer" are never too far away. Glad to see the marathon training isn't getting in the way of the important stuff!

mbarr

tailgunner wrote: »

Ha. I love the way every time you describe a run as being tough, the words "craft beer" are never too far away. Glad to see the marathon training isn't getting in the way of the important stuff!

Haha, yeah there does seem to be a link there! I'm hoping to train my body to use it as fuel. Results so far not looking great!

mbarr

Today: 22 miles with stuff. I decided "stuff" would be 10 MP miles, after a nice 10 mile easy warmup. Ran the easy too hard, ran the stuff too hard, died a million deaths on the hills in the closing 2 miles of the stuff, and (i think) bonked for the first time ever on cooldown. Got it done though.

Growing up near Strandhill, the idea of running from Strandhill to Sligo town seemed like that would be a long way to run, and not something I would attempt. Running from Sligo town to Rosses Point, ditto. Running from Strandhill to Sligo town, continuing on to Rosses point, then turning around and repeating it in reverse would have seemed like a ridiculous thing to do on a bicycle, let alone running. Also despite it being about the flattest 22 mile circuit I could think of in Sligo, it's still lumpy as fook. 850 feet altitude gain (compared to 550 for the last 22 miles of the DCM route). So those are my excuses, 22 miles is long and this 22 miles was lumpy.

I ran by HR for the easy stretch which resulted in them being too quick (didnt keep the HR low enough TBH), which in turn I think caused my difficulties at the end. Splits: 9:39, 8:50, 8:47, 8:26, 8:50, 8:43, 8:58, 8:56, 8:36, 8:31

The 10 at MP really exposed a weakness in my own pacing in hills, I have no idea how fast to go up them. I know I can make time back on the way down the far side, but I know that I won't get everything back and need to push on the way up. I'm just always overestimating how hard I should be pushing up these hills in order to maintain a consistent pace over the mile. So once I get to the top and realise that I've pushed too hard, there's no real point in slowing down for the downhill as I'm not using much energy for that anyhow. Maybe I shouldn't be thinking of the thing in terms of mile splits at all, rather my overall pace for the section. For my 14 miles at MP this week I'll err on the side of undercooking, and set the watch to show pace for the entire 14 miles rather than split by split.
Splits for MP section: 8:02, 7:54, 7:49, 7:58, 7:45, 7:55, 7:51, 7:49, 8:02, 7:39

It was going ok (hard but fair) until around mile 17, where I started to doubt if I could finish the MP miles. pushed through those doubts, mile 19 was very uphill (111 foot rise) and completely broke me. I only got through mile 20 by virtue of it being mostly downhill. My two mile cooldown I just lost it completely. I was so mentally focused on finishing the MP stretch I hadn't considered that the last two miles would be so challenging. I had to stop to walk twice. The splits don't seem to show this (although I think I remember stopping the watch once while walking) and I can't remember how far I walked for before running again (about 100 metres I think). Having done a bit of reading about bonking I'm not sure it actually was that as I was able to start running again (albeit mostly downhill). no gels, no water on this run. Could have been dehydration, general fatigue, lack of mental sharpness on the cooldown. Dunno. Cooldown splits: 8:28, 8:25

Anyhow, good vigorous (overvigorous) workout, interesting new body sensations to parse, and the last long run checked off the plan. 54ish miles for the week, 50 last week, my first two in a row over 50 miles. Off the back of the Kinvara half two weeks ago it's really no wonder that things are starting to creak a bit. I'm mentally ready for taper now, as AM says, Bring It On!

Mrs Mc

You got it done well done enjoy the taper

Murph_D

Well done. One way of dealing with hills is to just try to keep the effort constant. You will lose time but you can have it back on downhill and straight. Good idea to not sweat individual miles re pace. Better to think in sections, or 5k splits maybe. I've bonked on a long run or two. Even had to get a taxi home once. All part of the fun! Good run.

Firedance

well done M! am very jealous though

snailsong

Well done on getting it done. As I said on Strava, the pacing wasn't disastrous. Just a shade too hot.

Doing this without water or fuel is a bit hardcore, possibly inadvisable, and almost certainly a factor in the difficulty at the end. I was feeling a bit under pressure in the first half of my long one today. A little water and one gel at halfway and the second half was much easier.

Singer

snailsong wrote: »

Well done on getting it done. As I said on Strava, the pacing wasn't disastrous. Just a shade too hot.

Doing this without water or fuel is a bit hardcore, possibly inadvisable, and almost certainly a factor in the difficulty at the end. I was feeling a bit under pressure in the first half of my long one today. A little water and one gel at halfway and the second half was much easier.

So as ever I'm a terrible person to listen to, but I agree with this analysis - I think you ran this a little too hard, those hills were tough and you didn't need to be speeding up and down them as hard as you did. Even your bonked cooldown miles were relatively fast. THAT SAID, it's a great workout - I also bonked on one of my long runs (a 20 miler I think), and it was down to over-confidence on the fuel side. If it helps, the bonking was as bad as my last few miles in the actual marathon, so it's great practice

Take it pretty easy over the next few days!

mbarr

Mrs Mc wrote: »

You got it done well done enjoy the taper

Thanks will do!

Murph_D wrote: »

Well done. One way of dealing with hills is to just try to keep the effort constant. You will lose time but you can have it back on downhill and straight. Good idea to not sweat individual miles re pace. Better to think in sections, or 5k splits maybe. I've bonked on a long run or two. Even had to get a taxi home once. All part of the fun! Good run.

Thanks D great advice on the hill pacing (I'll be doing my best to avoid them between now and the marathon though!)

Firedance wrote: »

well done M! am very jealous though

I can remember feeling a bit envious when I couldn't run a few sessions with my feet and you were flying. You'll be back flying soon!

snailsong wrote: »

Well done on getting it done. As I said on Strava, the pacing wasn't disastrous. Just a shade too hot.

Doing this without water or fuel is a bit hardcore, possibly inadvisable, and almost certainly a factor in the difficulty at the end. I was feeling a bit under pressure in the first half of my long one today. A little water and one gel at halfway and the second half was much easier.

Yeah I think this rings true for me. also I want it to be true because it's easier to resolve than general fatigue due to undertraining/picking too fast a marathon target

Singer wrote: »

So as ever I'm a terrible person to listen to, but I agree with this analysis - I think you ran this a little too hard, those hills were tough and you didn't need to be speeding up and down them as hard as you did. Even your bonked cooldown miles were relatively fast. THAT SAID, it's a great workout - I also bonked on one of my long runs (a 20 miler I think), and it was down to over-confidence on the fuel side. If it helps, the bonking was as bad as my last few miles in the actual marathon, so it's great practice

Take it pretty easy over the next few days!

Thanks B much appreciated! I'm glad it happened now and not in the marathon for the first time. Overconfidence perfectly expresses my fuel and water strategy (or complete lack thereof) today, lesson firmly learned (there seem to be a lot of them in marathon training). I can actually remember looking longingly at a pond in someone's garden during easy mile 8 so there was obviously some thirst going on.

Going to take it very handy indeed.

mbarr

Thursday: 14 miles@PMP (7:57min/mile)

Meno describes this run as the sting in the tail of his plan; it's the last significant session before taper. I haven't had a run where I kit myself out in my marathon gear, so this was it. I'm still missing my shoes, I bought a pair of saucony guide 8s a few weeks ago but due to the state of my other shoes they'll have too many miles in them come marathon time, so I've a pair of guide 9s on order. Apart from that I got dressed up in my gear, looped 4 gels into the elasticated loops in the ron hill shorts that the reviews told me wouldn't work, 2 in the expansive back pocket.

Headed off from the house, it was very strange to be running close to MP straight away. It was also very strange having half a litre of liquid bouncing up and down around my waist, disconcerting and not very nice. I hit Phoenix Park, plan was to run 3 loops of the north half of the park. North road is a bit of a drag, chesterfield run from castleknock gate side is nicely downhill, so the MP miles fluctuated higher and lower, but I feel I got the effort right, made the time back on the downhill and didn't kill myself uphill. I configured a screen for my watch with distance, lap pace, average pace, and time on it. It was nice to see the average pace, after a few miles it's hard to budge this one way or the other, so i didn't freak out as much over getting every split on or under 8:00. This was what killed me at the weekend so I feel that's on the way to being sorted.

Around 1 mile in my gels started to fall out of the loops, as advertised. I ended up abandoning two of them and carrying two in my hands, however they had developed slow punctures in the fall so I ended up covered in gel up to my elbows. :rolleyes: It's not particularly nice having your fingers sticking together, going to try to avoid this in the marathon.

Anyhow, the run was fine, there were times when it felt hard and the self doubts were present but mostly when on the flat or downhill it felt comfortable and sustainable. At the end I would estimate I could have kept going at that pace for at least another 5 miles. That would get me to 19 and I could see how the fun would start there.

Taper now, looking forward to reflecting on the training, planning strategy for the day, breaking in my new runners on some easy runs, and trying to keep the madness at bay.

mbarr

Tipping away the last few tough runs, 16 miles easy in Sligo last weekend, 10 with 8@PMP tonight. I had new runners on order and luckily they arrived today so this was my real test run of all equipment to be used in 9 days time. I was slightly apprehensive as the last time I tried to run with 6 gels it was incredibly uncomfortable and I ended up with gel up to my elbows.

Fortunately for me Firedance is an amazing person and walked up across town on Tuesday to loan me her gel belt (thanks FD!) so I had a new piece of gear to test in addition to the new shoes. I had headed out for 3 miles easy on Tuesday and found the belt weird and the gels started slipping, only to go home and discover I was wearing it the wrong way around like a muppet. Reversed the direction tonight and I barely noticed it was there, absolutely perfect! Easy to get the gels out individually too. Everything felt great tonight, none of the gear was annoying me.

I've had a slight tightness to my breathing all week and I'm terrified that I'm coming down with a chest infection, my sleep and diet have been appalling recently and I'm starting to pay for that. Early nights and healthy food from now on and pray the damage hasn't already been done. Anyhow that tightness was apparent on certain sections of tonight's run, pace felt fine but I was slightly short of breath, or couldn't completely fill my lungs or something. I have absolutely nothing to do this weekend so I'm thinking of spending most of it in bed.

annapr

That 14 miles @ MP is a key session... According to those more experienced than me (Ok, Murph), if you can nail that session, then you will nail the marathon at that pace. Proved true for me, looking good for you too! Should give you lots of confidence, especially now that you've figure out the gels too

Singer

mbarr wrote: »

I've had a slight tightness to my breathing all week and I'm terrified that I'm coming down with a chest infection, my sleep and diet have been appalling recently and I'm starting to pay for that. Early nights and healthy food from now on and pray the damage hasn't already been done. Anyhow that tightness was apparent on certain sections of tonight's run, pace felt fine but I was slightly short of breath, or couldn't completely fill my lungs or something. I have absolutely nothing to do this weekend so I'm thinking of spending most of it in bed.

Looks like the maranoia is really kicking in! :pac:

Hopefully it's nothing, but either way rest sounds like a good plan. Go easy on the craft beers this weekend and rest

Firedance

annapr wrote: »

That 14 miles @ MP is a key session... According to those more experienced than me (Ok, Murph), if you can nail that session, then you will nail the marathon at that pace. Proved true for me, looking good for you too! Should give you lots of confidence, especially now that you've figure out the gels too

Oh I wonder where you might have heard that before M relax, do some deep breathing and yes get your diet & sleep sorted from now.

You'l be fine, you can borrow my race mantras to go along with belt, 'You can and you wil', 'Trust the Training' - give me something to jump up and down about next Sunday!!