2015-16 Champions Cup thread

sheep?

First time since 97/98 an Irish team ain't in the knockouts if I'm right. The year Bath won it.

CatFromHue

Wasps

(1) Saracens England v England Northampton Saints (8)

(4) Wasps England v England Exeter Chiefs (5)

(2) Leicester Tigers England v France Stade Français (7)

(3) Racing 92 France v France Toulon (6)

(a) For Semi-final 1

If the clubs ranked 1 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home country

If the clubs ranked 1 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 8 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage

(b) For Semi-final 2

If the clubs ranked 3 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 3 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 7 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home country advantage

If Toulon win their QF they get home advantage for the Semi :pac:

So would Exeter

errlloyd

Ospreys

CatFromHue wrote: »

(1) Saracens England v England Northampton Saints (8)

(4) Wasps England v England Exeter Chiefs (5)

(2) Leicester Tigers England v France Stade Français (7)

(3) Racing 92 France v France Toulon (6)



If Toulon win their QF they get home advantage for the Semi :pac:

So would Exeter

I presume it doesn't make a difference who wins between Exeter, Wasps, Sarries or Northampton, the game will be in Twickers?

Digifriendly

Ospreys

errlloyd wrote: »

The most hilarious result of all this is that despite having the final in the South of France, there is a very strong chance it will be two English teams. The only way to avoid an all English final would be a French team winning away from home.

One of Saracens, Northampton, Exeter or Wasps has to be in the final.

The other side is less clear, but a French team will have to win away from home. This is because Leicester are against Stade at home, so unless Stade win that game away Leicester will go through the semis.

If Leicester get to the semis they will have to play the winner of Racing v Toulon.

Racing will play Leicester in England
Toulon would play Leicester in France.

So unless Stade win in Leicester, Toulon win in Paris or Racing win in England, the final will be all English.

Very well thought out. Still fancy Racing to make the final. Am predicting Saracens vs Racing decider.

awec

Anyone, ANYONE but Saracens.

Dave_The_Sheep

Or Toulon.

Teferi

awec wrote: »

Anyone, ANYONE but Saracens.

or Toulon.

CMOTDibbler

The first year ever that there is no representation from Pro 12/Celtic League/Sco-Ita-Ire-Wal teams in the knock out stages.

First year ever that an entire league isn't represented in the knock out stages (other than by boycott or similar).

Better get used to it

Year|Top 14|Premiership|Pro 12
2016|3|5|0
2015|3|4|1
2014|3|2|3
2013|3|3|2
2012|2|1|5
2011|4|2|2
2010|4|1|3
2009|1|3|4
2008|2|3|3
2007|2|3|3
2006|3|3|2
2005|3|3|2
2004|3|2|3
2003|3|2|3
2002|3|2|3
2001|3|2|3
2000|3|2|3
1999|4|0*|4
1998|3|4|1
1997|3|3|2
1996**|1|0|3

* English clubs and Cardiff and Swansea boycotted the competition in 1998/99
** The RFU and SRU did not permit their clubs to enter. Pool winners went straight to semi-final.

pickarooney

I think mine was the Saracens vote, or else I took the safe Toulon option. I don't think 5 of Clermont's staunchest fans thought they'd win but we have a lot of believers here.

I actually want Wasps to win though.

former total

Ospreys

pickarooney wrote: »

I think mine was the Saracens vote, or else I took the safe Toulon option. I don't think 5 of Clermont's staunchest fans thought they'd win but we have a lot of believers here.

I actually want Wasps to win though.

I voted for Clermont because they had the easiest group and would definitely get a home quarter final, and Clermont never lose at home...

ArmchairQB

pickarooney wrote: »

I think mine was the Saracens vote, or else I took the safe Toulon option. I don't think 5 of Clermont's staunchest fans thought they'd win but we have a lot of believers here.

I actually want Wasps to win though.

Yeah I would like to see Wasps win it

Larbre34

I knew our record was poor but Ive just seen that of Scarlets. The team leading the Pro12 loses 6/6 in Europe. Our league is in very big trouble now and not just because of that one statistic. While Ospreys were within a whisker, the reality is in Leinster or Ulster's pool they would have finished last.

Tough days ahead.

CatFromHue

Wasps

Lanelli have never been up to much in Europe so them not doing well doesn't phase me.

The only Pro12 sides to be up to much in Europe are the Irish sides and I think next year both Leinster and Ulster will better.

CatFromHue

Wasps

Lanelli have never been up to much in Europe so them not doing well doesn't phase me.

The only Pro12 sides to be up to much in Europe are the Irish sides and I think next year both Leinster and Ulster will better.

Wasps

I don't know why people are going through all the permutations of who might win considering the rest of the tournament has been cancelled.

Looking forward to seeing you all in next seasons Champions Cup Thread. Bye!

Wasps

I don't know why people are going through all the permutations of who might win considering the rest of the tournament has been cancelled.

Looking forward to seeing you all in next seasons Champions Cup Thread. Bye!

penybont exile

Yes ..... Now that this Euro nonsense is over let's get on with the main course.

Nice looking starters ......

CMOTDibbler

Larbre34 wrote: »

I knew our record was poor but Ive just seen that of Scarlets. The team leading the Pro12 loses 6/6 in Europe. Our league is in very big trouble now and not just because of that one statistic. While Ospreys were within a whisker, the reality is in Leinster or Ulster's pool they would have finished last.

Tough days ahead.

I think they're already here. I've no idea how much money has been lost to the provinces over the last two years in Europe, but the money available in the Premiership and Top 14 is easy to see.

This is the first season that we've ever lost three front line players to foreign clubs. POC and Madigan could be looked at as outliers but Marty Moore and (if true) Keith Earls and possibly Zebo as well?

wp_rathead

European Rugby Champions Cup quarter-finals
(All kick-offs local time)

Saturday 9 April
QF2: Wasps v Exeter Chiefs, Ricoh Arena (15.15) BT Sport / beIN Sports
QF1: Saracens v Northampton Saints, Allianz Park (17.45) Sky Sports / beIN Sports

Sunday 10 April
QF4: Leicester Tigers v Stade Francais Paris, Welford Road (13.45) BT Sport / beIN Sports
QF3: Racing 92 v RC Toulon, Stade Yves-du-Manoir (17.15) FR 2 / Sky Sports / beIN Sports


European Rugby Challenge Cup quarter-finals
(All kick-offs local time)

Friday 8 April
QF3: Sale Sharks v Montpellier, AJ Bell Stadium (19.45) Sky Sports / beIN Sports

Saturday 9 April
QF4: Gloucester Rugby v Newport Gwent Dragons, Kingsholm (12.45) Sky Sports
QF1: Harlequins v London Irish, Twickenham Stoop (20.05) BT Sport
QF2: Grenoble v Connacht Rugby, Stade des Alpes (21.05) FR 4 / BT Sport / beIN Sports

pickarooney

Congrats to RichieRich89, the only soul-seller brave enough to pick Saracens as European champions!

bilston

pickarooney wrote: »

Congrats to RichieRich89, the only soul-seller brave enough to pick Saracens as European champions!

Yeah but hopefully he has been banned!

Anyway I guess there is only about a month to go until the draw for 2016/17. I'm hoping and expecting that both Ulster and Leinster will much more competitive next season.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

Congrats to RichieRich89, the only soul-seller brave enough to pick Saracens as European champions!

Maybe he's right about Te'o too?

icdg

bilston wrote: »

Yeah but hopefully he has been banned!

Anyway I guess there is only about a month to go until the draw for 2016/17. I'm hoping and expecting that both Ulster and Leinster will much more competitive next season.

Like to be later due to the extremely late finish of the Top 14 this year - they don't finish till the end of June!

phog

The draws for the composition of the pools for the 2016/17 European Rugby Champions Cup and Challenge Cup will take place in Neuchâtel, Switzerland on Wednesday, 29 June.

Maybe time for a new thread .

vienne86

Scarlets

So who gets the 20th place in the Champions Cup, seeing as Montpellier, Challenge Cup winners, have already qualified by right? Does the Top 14 7th place, Bordeaux, get in now?

irishbucsfan

vienne86 wrote: »

So who gets the 20th place in the Champions Cup, seeing as Montpellier, Challenge Cup winners, have already qualified by right? Does the Top 14 7th place, Bordeaux, get in now?

Yes, next highest finisher in the league, so Bordeaux were guarranteed their place a little while back

vienne86

Scarlets

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes, next highest finisher in the league, so Bordeaux were guarranteed their place a little while back

Stupid of me not to cop that before - I thought it would take a miracle tonight to get them in. Delighted they are in, and I long for them to be drawn in the same pool as Leinster!

phog

Almost impossible for Irish to compete in Europe - Gordon D'Arcy's worrying assessment ahead of new season

molloyjh

phog wrote: »

Almost impossible for Irish to compete in Europe - Gordon D'Arcy's worrying assessment ahead of new season

He's not far wrong. Look at the pools this year. Munster won't make it out of their pool. Connacht probably won't either given Wasps form at the moment and Toulouse won't be beaten at home again in all likelihood. Leinster probably have the best shot, but Montpellier and Northampton are going to be very tough. They'll need to top their pool and that's a big ask. Finally Ulster will find it hard to top theirs ahead of Clermont and will struggle to make up the points required to be one of the best runners up against Exeter and Bordeaux.

The way I see it at the moment is something like this:

Pool Winners:
Racing
Wasps
Saracens
Leinster
Clermont

Best Runners Up:
Toulouse
Toulon
Montpellier

And even that is somewhat hopeful. Leinster may well not get out of their pool at all either. Although I do think one of ourselves or Ulster will. Pool 3 is clearly the one where 2 sides will emerge. Sale and Scarlets aren't going to be able to put it up to Toulon and Saracens.

thomond2006

When are the Pro12 TV contracts up for renewal? TG4 provide a pittance (less than €1m IIRC). Irish rugby will need Eir Sport to up the ante regarding the TV money, it's a source of finance that must increase.

icdg

The deal runs until the end of 2017-18, so there's a bit of way left to go on that. Incidentally I recall the EPCR deal is up at the same time.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

When are the Pro12 TV contracts up for renewal? TG4 provide a pittance (less than €1m IIRC). Irish rugby will need Eir Sport to up the ante regarding the TV money, it's a source of finance that must increase.

It must increase here in Ireland specifically. We have the biggest market in the Pro12 and that should be reflected in the TV rights, but it really isn't at all.

Winters

molloyjh wrote: »

He's not far wrong. Look at the pools this year. Munster won't make it out of their pool. Connacht probably won't either given Wasps form at the moment and Toulouse won't be beaten at home again in all likelihood. Leinster probably have the best shot, but Montpellier and Northampton are going to be very tough. They'll need to top their pool and that's a big ask. Finally Ulster will find it hard to top theirs ahead of Clermont and will struggle to make up the points required to be one of the best runners up against Exeter and Bordeaux.

The fact that the English and French owners appear to have no strict limit on the amount of home grown and home qualified players that they can employ means their recruitment of "foreign" players is unbalancing the game. Not only are other teams weakened by losing their players they are also having to compete financially to keep them.

While salary caps are currently used as a quasi/semi control I would have thought a common (world/hemisphere wide) "home country qualified" rule similar to Ireland's would bring a large degree of balance to rugby in both hemispheres. I reckon the majority of global pro teams would already be at or under a 5 player rule which should make it more feasible. This would then force the likes of the English and French speculator owners to focus more on local recruitment and development which is what rugby should be about.

I would like to think that strict player quotas would be easier to enforce and would negate the financial disparities.

molloyjh wrote: »

It must increase here in Ireland specifically. We have the biggest market in the Pro12 and that should be reflected in the TV rights, but it really isn't at all.

And who pays for that increase?

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

When are the Pro12 TV contracts up for renewal? TG4 provide a pittance (less than €1m IIRC). Irish rugby will need Eir Sport to up the ante regarding the TV money, it's a source of finance that must increase.

It might be good for the teams to pick up on the extra TV rights money but who's going to be outbidding TG4? Even if eirSport want the rights would they even have to double the current fee? It looks like RTE has no mass in it.

bilston

phog wrote: »

thomond2006 wrote: »

When are the Pro12 TV contracts up for renewal? TG4 provide a pittance (less than 1m IIRC). Irish rugby will need Eir Sport to up the ante regarding the TV money, it's a source of finance that must increase.

It might be good for the teams to pick up on the extra TV rights money but who's going to be outbidding TG4? Even if eirSport want the rights would they even have to double the current fee? It looks like RTE has no mass in it.

If Pay TV were to get exclusive rights then they'd pay more money. At the moment the rights are divided between 4 or 5 channels. Sky or BT will pay a lot more if they are the sole broadcaster.

Sky or BT/Eir Sport with exclusive live rights and BBC/TG4/TV3 or whoever with a Match of the Day style highlights programme may be the best way forward to maximise money and maintain interest amongst casual supporters.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

He's not far wrong. Look at the pools this year. Munster won't make it out of their pool. Connacht probably won't either given Wasps form at the moment and Toulouse won't be beaten at home again in all likelihood. Leinster probably have the best shot, but Montpellier and Northampton are going to be very tough. They'll need to top their pool and that's a big ask. Finally Ulster will find it hard to top theirs ahead of Clermont and will struggle to make up the points required to be one of the best runners up against Exeter and Bordeaux.

The way I see it at the moment is something like this:

Pool Winners:
Racing
Wasps
Saracens
Leinster
Clermont

Best Runners Up:
Toulouse
Toulon
Montpellier

And even that is somewhat hopeful. Leinster may well not get out of their pool at all either. Although I do think one of ourselves or Ulster will. Pool 3 is clearly the one where 2 sides will emerge. Sale and Scarlets aren't going to be able to put it up to Toulon and Saracens.

You shut up we'll fecking win the thing.

All-Irish Semi Finals. All Irish Final.

Alright?

bilston

I'm a bit more confident about the provinces this year.

You can't underestimate the impact of the WC last year. The Pro 12 will always suffer more than the other leagues because it serves 4 national teams, the Premiership and Top 14 serve 1 national team each. The fact is the Pro 12 sides were nowhere near ready for the start of Europe in comparison to the Premiership and Top 14. The English players were back from WC duty a week earlier and even then we held our players back longer anyway as we usually do. There is no WC distraction this season and I expect a better European performance.

Obviously the money involved now makes it harder for our teams, but I wouldn't be surprised to see both Leinster and Ulster in the Quarter Finals and depending on the draw maybe one making the semi finals, and if you get a home territory draw there then who knows.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

You shut up we'll fecking win the thing.

All-Irish Semi Finals. All Irish Final.

Alright?

Digifriendly

Ospreys

molloyjh wrote: »

thomond2006 wrote: »

When are the Pro12 TV contracts up for renewal? TG4 provide a pittance (less than 1m IIRC). Irish rugby will need Eir Sport to up the ante regarding the TV money, it's a source of finance that must increase.

It must increase here in Ireland specifically. We have the biggest market in the Pro12 and that should be reflected in the TV rights, but it really isn't at all.

This would not be good news for viewers in NI if they had to subscribe to Eir Sports. A throwback to days when Setanta had live rights and very few here in NI subscribed. Surely with S4C and BBC Alba promotion of native language is important and with GFA the coverage of TG4 north and south of the border is vital so k p rugby on TG4.

RichieRich89

Ulster

molloyjh wrote: »

He's not far wrong. Look at the pools this year. Munster won't make it out of their pool. Connacht probably won't either given Wasps form at the moment and Toulouse won't be beaten at home again in all likelihood. Leinster probably have the best shot, but Montpellier and Northampton are going to be very tough. They'll need to top their pool and that's a big ask. Finally Ulster will find it hard to top theirs ahead of Clermont and will struggle to make up the points required to be one of the best runners up against Exeter and Bordeaux.

The way I see it at the moment is something like this:

Pool Winners:
Racing
Wasps
Saracens
Leinster
Clermont

Best Runners Up:
Toulouse
Toulon
Montpellier

And even that is somewhat hopeful. Leinster may well not get out of their pool at all either. Although I do think one of ourselves or Ulster will. Pool 3 is clearly the one where 2 sides will emerge. Sale and Scarlets aren't going to be able to put it up to Toulon and Saracens.

Darcy is obsessed with NIQs. He seems to think that it's impossible for the provinces to compete unless they have 5 or 6 high-quality imports. It's a bit of a joke really when you consider how many internationals Leinster have. Leinster might very well not qualify from their group, but it's laughable for someone to think that it's virtually impossible to compete with Montpellier and Northampton when a lot of the same players will be going toe-to-toe with England, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand

molloyjh

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Darcy is obsessed with NIQs. He seems to think that it's impossible for the provinces to compete unless they have 5 or 6 high-quality imports. It's a bit of a joke really when you consider how many internationals Leinster have. Leinster might very well not qualify from their group, but it's laughable for someone to think that it's virtually impossible to compete with Montpellier and Northampton when a lot of the same players will be going toe-to-toe with England, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand

Obsessed? Where are you getting that from? He had an article where he mentioned it in June but that's it AFAIK. And he wasn't talking about competing in the pools, he was talking about winning the Champions Cup outright. He spoke about logistical issues with delayed pre-seasons etc for the internationals leaving the provinces playing catch up with the big spenders in England and France. All very logical stuff really. We can argue just how valid that is but I don't think he said anything particularly crazy in the article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gordon-d-arcy-overseas-stars-essential-for-ireland-s-success-1.2693871