Last minute further rent increase

Hayden Pennyfeather

Have been renting a 3 bed apartment for the past 3 years, paying a reasonable rate for the area (It's under market as far as i know - PRTB database is down so i can't check). We deal with our landlord through a letting agent. The letting agent informed us that the landlord was looking to increase the rent to a certain range and asked us would we be willing to accept the minimum in his range - a small increase on our current rate - we agreed. The agent contacted the landlord, he agreed and we were informed as such. About an hour later we were contacted again by the letting agent informing us that the landlord had changed his mind - in light of hearing of the incoming legislation - and wanted to increase the rent by a further €50 on top of the agreed increase.

Whilst we are willing to pay the proposed rent, we are annoyed that the landlord agreed an increase and subsequently went back on his word. Is there any point in arguing this point?

Also supposing we go ahead and agree to the new rent - what are our rights in terms of upgrading some of the furniture in the house? For example our couches are in very bad condition - out of shape with all the leather peeled off from natural wear and tear.

Thanks

seamus

An oral agreement to a new rental amount is binding according to the residential tenancies act. The landlord cannot arbitrarily decide to change his mind, even if it is just an hour later.

Your rights in regards to furniture and fittings are the same either way - anything which is broken or no longer fit for use must be repaired or replaced by the landlord.

Hayden Pennyfeather

seamus wrote: »

An oral agreement to a new rental amount is binding according to the residential tenancies act. The landlord cannot arbitrarily decide to change his mind, even if it is just an hour later.

Your rights in regards to furniture and fittings are the same either way - anything which is broken or no longer fit for use must be repaired or replaced by the landlord.

Thanks for the reply Seamus. The landlord's agreement was made over the phone to the letting agent who subsequently informed us via email - i assume your point is still applicable?! Just want to be 100% sure before going back to him.

In terms of going back to our landlord and informing him that our initial agreement was binding - are we protected from him turning around and trying to turf us out?

seamus

You're especially protected if you have an email. People can deny that they had a conversation, they can't deny they sent an email.

No, your landlord can't turf you out willy-nilly. Go to www.prtb.ie to see your rights. If he does attempt to evict you, contact the PRTB for advice.

Paulw

bigkocman wrote: »

The landlord's agreement was made over the phone to the letting agent who subsequently informed us via email - i assume your point is still applicable?!

So the email said something along the lines of - "the landlord has now changed his mind and wants an extra ..."

In that case, you already had an agreement. The "change of mind" would not be permitted.

Hayden Pennyfeather

Paulw wrote: »

So the email said something along the lines of - "the landlord has now changed his mind and wants an extra ..."

In that case, you already had an agreement. The "change of mind" would not be permitted.

Email from the letting agent to us went as follows:

"I’m just on the phone to him now. He is agreeing to the €XXXX so I will get the lease out in the post today as I’m out most of the day tomorrow."

The landlord obviously rang her back awhile later. The letting agent subsequently rang my house mate informing him of the landlords decision to increase further.

Paulw

Ok, so you have an email stating the new increase amount, which you agreed to, and then there was a further conversation later about a further increase?

I'd go back and state that there is already a rent increase agreed, as per the email, and that no further review can take place for at least another 12 months.

Hayden Pennyfeather

Paulw wrote: »

Ok, so you have an email stating the new increase amount, which you agreed to, and then there was a further conversation later about a further increase?

I'd go back and state that there is already a rent increase agreed, as per the email, and that no further review can take place for at least another 12 months.

Yes we have an email - as above - stating the the landlord had agreed to the increase that we had agreed to. Yes the letting agent rang us to inform us the landlord was seeking a further increase.

Hayden Pennyfeather

seamus wrote: »

An oral agreement to a new rental amount is binding according to the residential tenancies act. T

Seamus, do you know in what section of the act this is referred to?

Thanks

the world wonders

bigkocman wrote: »

Seamus, do you know in what section of the act this is referred to?

Thanks

part 3, sections 19 through 24

(2) The reference in this section to the setting of the rent under a tenancy is a reference to—


(a) the initial setting of the rent under the tenancy, and


(b) any subsequent setting of the rent under the tenancy by way of a review of that rent.
...
(2) References in this Part to a review of a rent include references to—


(a) any procedure (however it is described) for determining whether, and to what extent, a reduction or increase in the amount of the rent for the time being payable under the tenancy concerned ought to have effect, and


(b) the effect of the operation of a provision of a lease or tenancy agreement providing that, by reference to any formula, happening of any event or other matter whatsoever (and whether any act, decision or exercise of discretion on the part of any person is involved or not), such a reduction or increase shall have effect,


and, in the case of a provision of the kind referred to in paragraph (b), any prohibition under this Part on a review of rent occurring is to be read as a prohibition on the provision operating to have the foregoing effect.
...
(3) References in this Part to the setting of a rent are references to the oral agreeing of the rent or to its being provided for in a lease or tenancy agreement or, in the context of a review of rent—


(a) the oral agreeing of the rent,


(b) the oral or written notification of the rent, or


(c) in the case of a provision of the kind referred to in subsection (2)(b), the rent being set by virtue of the operation of that provision.

car_jacker

bigkocman wrote: »

Have been renting a 3 bed apartment for the past 3 years, paying a reasonable rate for the area (It's under market as far as i know - PRTB database is down so i can't check). We deal with our landlord through a letting agent. The letting agent informed us that the landlord was looking to increase the rent to a certain range and asked us would we be willing to accept the minimum in his range - a small increase on our current rate - we agreed. The agent contacted the landlord, he agreed and we were informed as such. About an hour later we were contacted again by the letting agent informing us that the landlord had changed his mind - in light of hearing of the incoming legislation - and wanted to increase the rent by a further €50 on top of the agreed increase.

Whilst we are willing to pay the proposed rent, we are annoyed that the landlord agreed an increase and subsequently went back on his word. Is there any point in arguing this point?

Also supposing we go ahead and agree to the new rent - what are our rights in terms of upgrading some of the furniture in the house? For example our couches are in very bad condition - out of shape with all the leather peeled off from natural wear and tear.

Thanks

the PRTB database has redicolously low average rent prices for specific areas , just checked there now , two bed terraced houses in stoneybatter for 1100 euro as the average , it was that three years ago , you would be around 1400 today

Arbiter of Good Taste

bigkocman wrote: »

Have been renting a 3 bed apartment for the past 3 years, paying a reasonable rate for the area (It's under market as far as i know - PRTB database is down so i can't check). We deal with our landlord through a letting agent. The letting agent informed us that the landlord was looking to increase the rent to a certain range and asked us would we be willing to accept the minimum in his range - a small increase on our current rate - we agreed. The agent contacted the landlord, he agreed and we were informed as such. About an hour later we were contacted again by the letting agent informing us that the landlord had changed his mind - in light of hearing of the incoming legislation - and wanted to increase the rent by a further €50 on top of the agreed increase.

Whilst we are willing to pay the proposed rent, we are annoyed that the landlord agreed an increase and subsequently went back on his word. Is there any point in arguing this point?

Also supposing we go ahead and agree to the new rent - what are our rights in terms of upgrading some of the furniture in the house? For example our couches are in very bad condition - out of shape with all the leather peeled off from natural wear and tear.

Thanks

How in the name of God does normal wear and tear cause the leather to peel off the couch? I have leather couches for 11 years that are still in excellent condition. You might find the LL won't be too amenable to hearing that.

Gatling

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

How in the name of God does normal wear and tear cause the leather to peel off the couch? I have leather couches for 11 years that are still in excellent condition. You might find the LL won't be too amenable to hearing that.

Faux leather ?

L1011

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

How in the name of God does normal wear and tear cause the leather to peel off the couch? I have leather couches for 11 years that are still in excellent condition. You might find the LL won't be too amenable to hearing that.

Bonded / PU leather - basically one tiny step up from fake in that there is some vague bit of a cow in it - can peel easily.

Actual fake 'leather' can be significantly worse.

Unless its the LLs old couch or its an extremely high end rental, its likely to be fake or possibly bonded/PU

Hayden Pennyfeather

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

How in the name of God does normal wear and tear cause the leather to peel off the couch? I have leather couches for 11 years that are still in excellent condition. You might find the LL won't be too amenable to hearing that.

I used the word leather lightly - more leather effect - it's like a coat of paint!