NASRPC's refusal to allow affiliation of clubs

LB6

Ah ok - Read your post wrong sorry

LB6

Well never let it be said, that you weren't given the opportunity to take part in the AGM.

The motion is put up for debate. I'm sure that debate entails a conversation between TWO sides. You seem to be absolutely determined to stick your head in the sand.

Come up, get frustrated. Have your discussion. You are allowed to do that you know. You just can't VOTE!

habitformin

Speaking for everyone again?? Where have I heard this kind of opinion before?
I apologise to anyone who thinks my posts are repetitive . But as cra says I will be wasting my time at any AGM.
Thank you billBen for that little bit it's encouraging to know that email exist can we see the rest of it please?
Yes, it is the committee I am talking about and as for the Culchie remark I am of the opinion that this divide is getting to be a lenister v the rest divide . I hope to the name of God I am wrong . Things are bad enough already. I just can't see why anyone could possibly think this committee could be thanked for anything they have done in the last few months? And now I find myself and lots of other shooters in my club and other clubs completely excluded from any kind of redress or solution because of the actions by this "golden shower" .Would you be happy?
LB6 would you just shut up and walk away if you were treated in this way? Or would you just let it happen and accept the fate bestowed on you by a committee you never bothered in your life before?
Let's face it I have a right to be mad at this kind of treatment ,and I have only voiced my concerns as to the way this committee is driving this whole representation thing .I simply could never trust them again how could anyone.

cra

LB6 wrote: »

Well never let it be said, that you weren't given the opportunity to take part in the AGM.

The motion is put up for debate. I'm sure that debate entails a conversation between TWO sides. You seem to be absolutely determined to stick your head in the sand.

Come up, get frustrated. Have your discussion. You are allowed to do that you know. You just can't VOTE!

LB6 I don't think you fully grasp what I am saying, you may be correct that I can attend the AGM but I think you'll find I will not be able to speak or have a discussion. I wrote to the secratery and he told me that could not propose motions, vote or partake in the AGM, I don't think I can make it any plainer than that. If there is a discussion about An Riochts expulsion it will be a one sided discussion as nobody from An Riocht will be allowed present their side of the discussion.

Tea drinker

cra wrote: »

LB6 I don't think you fully grasp what I am saying, you may be correct that I can attend the AGM but I think you'll find I will not be able to speak or have a discussion. I wrote to the secratery and he told me that could not propose motions, vote or partake in the AGM, I don't think I can make it any plainer than that. If there is a discussion about An Riochts expulsion it will be a one sided discussion as nobody from An Riocht will be allowed present their side of the discussion.

Well isn't this partly down to bad communication and misunderstanding on both sides - I mean the payment and expulsion part, it is "legal" but sloppy.
So why doesn't someone from another club ask for clarification and explanation of the rules, because (my understanding anyway!!!) they are following the rules in not allowing An Riocht take the floor...

LB6

cra wrote: »

I wrote to the secratery and he told me that could not propose motions, vote or partake in the AGM, I don't think I can make it any plainer than that. If there is a discussion about An Riochts expulsion it will be a one sided discussion as nobody from An Riocht will be allowed present their side of the discussion.

Show me where it says you can't "partake" in the AGM? Yes you can't propose motions, or vote.

I'm sure that the motion proposed to ask about An Riocht not being a member anymore will mean questions from the floor. Just turn up, go peuce from frustration, and listen. You might learn something!

BillBen

Habitformin that was taken from the long list of motions that is up for discussion i just copied it to show that people will be asking questions re your club.

cra

LB6 wrote: »

Show me where it says you can't "partake" in the AGM? Yes you can't propose motions, or vote.

I'm sure that the motion proposed to ask about An Riocht not being a member anymore will mean questions from the floor. Just turn up, go peuce from frustration, and listen. You might learn something!

As I said I wrote to the SECRETARY of the NASRPC and that is what he told me

LB6

habitformin wrote: »

1.But as cra says I will be wasting my time at any AGM.

2.Thank you billBen for that little bit it's encouraging to know that email exist can we see the rest of it please?

3.Yes, it is the committee I am talking about and as for the Culchie remark I am of the opinion that this divide is getting to be a lenister v the rest divide . I hope to the name of God I am wrong .

4.And now I find myself and lots of other shooters in my club and other clubs completely excluded from any kind of redress or solution because of the actions by this "golden shower" .Would you be happy?

5.LB6 would you just shut up and walk away if you were treated in this way? Or would you just let it happen and accept the fate bestowed on you by a committee you never bothered in your life before?

1. Rubbish - go to the meeting and listen. There will be discussion. Don't come back on here after the AGM going on and on about not being able to sort it out.

2. The Email exists and was sent out to members of the NASRPC. It is not our property to forward on to others.

3. Culchie/Leinster/Rest divide. Limerick is well outside the pale, makes me a culchie. I'm in a club that's in Leinster. Where does that put me and all the other "culchie" people who happen to be shooters in those clubs?

4. The "Golden Shower" seemingly wrote to the club asking to meet up at a place of the clubs choice. Did the club happen to acknowledge the letter or suggest "maybe that's a good idea, let's thrash this out in person, and stop all this he says/she says" &*(&^&*

5. No I definitely would not "shut up and walk away", but I'd not be doing it all over the internet. I'd have some decorum and go about things the correct way and have the discussions in a civil tone and sort it out.

TBH. You're not endearing yourself to the viewing public here either.

LB6

cra wrote: »

As I said I wrote to the SECRETARY of the NASRPC and that is what he told me

He told you or he wrote to you? Have you got it in writing? Would be interesting to see where you were told you could not part-take in the AGM

cra

LB6 wrote: »

He told you or he wrote to you? Have you got it in writing? Would be interesting to see where you were told you could not part-take in the AGM

Yes its in writing

LB6

Thank you. I know it's private post between him and you, so I'm not going to ask to see it.

That's interesting. Must check where it says that in the constitution.


Constitution available online at 11/1/16

"All bona fide members of affiliated clubs present at the A.G.M. may vote on any proposal put forward
during proceedings"

Nowhere does it say that you cannot part-take, just that you have to be a member of an affiliated club to vote.

Grizzly 45

How long is this AGM being planned to be held??Because looking at all these proposals there is a Hell of alot of ground to be covered in an afternoon.I'd be surprised if one tenth of thm are trashed out properly and adapted If this was a corporation or multi national,i think you would be looking at a non stop 48 hour weekend marathon.Either than,or this is starting at Oh dark hundred on Sat.:P

habitformin

LB6
Don't worry I won't be ,there won't be any point .
The damage is done . Your precious committee has done a great job. It's stacked the deck so's to speak and gotten rid of any dissenters by executive action. It completely ignored it's members on several accounts .Ignoring call for EGM ,refusing to participate in the SC. Expelling clubs .changing from constitution 'a' to constitution'b' to suit it's own agenda, ran shoots on ranges as affiliated clubs .the same ones it refused affiliation above ?the biggest sin here is running a solo agenda and splitting a united front against those who would happily see us all playing cricket or badminton instead of target shooting.(fine sports but not my thing)
Maybe I am not endearing myself to anyone on here but I am NOT quietly asking for favours or quietly slipping in and out of back rooms trying to "fix" my side of things .this clandestine approach is simply wrong .
I have come on here and called it like it is. If that is not liked then it can't be helped.
The whole debacle is and was caused by this committee not you or me or most on here.
Someone has to speak about how things really are. Yes Saturday is fast approaching can this committee allow now outsiders to participate .if they could why would they .they have taken all steps they could to exclude me and my fellow club members. And I don't think what they did was legal at all.

LB6

habitformin wrote: »

LB6
Don't worry I won't be ,there won't be any point .
The damage is done . Your precious committee has done a great job. It's stacked the deck so's to speak and gotten rid of any dissenters by executive action. It completely ignored it's members on several accounts .Ignoring call for EGM ,refusing to participate in the SC. Expelling clubs .changing from constitution 'a' to constitution'b' to suit it's own agenda, ran shoots on ranges as affiliated clubs .the same ones it refused affiliation above ?the biggest sin here is running a solo agenda and splitting a united front against those who would happily see us all playing cricket or badminton instead of target shooting.(fine sports but not my thing)
Maybe I am not endearing myself to anyone on here but I am NOT quietly asking for favours or quietly slipping in and out of back rooms trying to "fix" my side of things .this clandestine approach is simply wrong .
I have come on here and called it like it is. If that is not liked then it can't be helped.
The whole debacle is and was caused by this committee not you or me or most on here.
Someone has to speak about how things really are. Yes Saturday is fast approaching can this committee allow now outsiders to participate .if they could why would they .they have taken all steps they could to exclude me and my fellow club members. And I don't think what they did was legal at all.

1. I'm not worried. It's your loss if you don't turn up to hear what's being said. I'll be there, I'm just as curious as to why all this kicked off in the first place.
2. My "precious committee" were the elected representatives of all clubs that went to the AGM last year. An Riocht were there. You were probably there!
3, "Maybe I am not endearing myself to anyone on here but I am NOT quietly asking for favours or quietly slipping in and out of back rooms trying to "fix" my side of things .this clandestine approach is simply wrong." I didn't say you should slip in and out of back rooms to fix your side of things. Nice of you to switch it around to suit your agenda.
4. What were "all steps" taken to exclude you and your fellow club members. List them off so I know.
5. You don't think "what" was legal?
6. Have you a link to constitution a and constitution b? I'd dearly love to read them!

habitformin

I have on here been accused of being repetitive.
All the info is already on here.
several other people posting have also explained exactly what went on and is going on.
You already know yourself exactly how all this went down .
This is ridiculous .
It's plain to see that no matter what went on this is a split that may not have been organised but once started it was grasped and foolishly seen as a good thing.
It isn't,and only time will be show how well we were doing when this committee took drastic action against the wishes of its members.
If the majority see two separate shooting groups in a FCP facing against each other to fight separate agendas as a good thing then so be it.
I don't.
As for legalities of expulsion of already affiliated clubs and payments acceptance on dates that suited and didn't suit . And calling a whole club names by email ? And running shoots on ranges as affiliated clubs then dumping the club's once questions are asked. Well it's a pity these valid questions won't be asked on Saturday.
That's my side of this .
What's yours?

LB6

habitformin wrote:

All the info is already on here.

Bullet point it in one post. line by line.

habitformin wrote:

Several other people posting have also explained exactly what went on and is going on.

I'm asking you.

habitformin wrote:

You already know yourself exactly how all this went down .

I hear from one side and then I hear dribbled down bits on a forum from the other side. It would be better if both sides were in the same room at the same time and let the members decide then based on information forthcoming.

habitformin wrote:

This is ridiculous .

Yes it really is.


Cheers for fixing the quotes :-)

habitformin wrote:

It's plain to see that no matter what went on this is a split that may not have been organised but once started it was grasped and foolishly seen as a good thing.

Foolishly depending on whether you want to see the good in it or not.

habitformin wrote:

It isn't,and only time will be show how well we were doing when this committee took drastic action against the wishes of its members.

It may have been drastic action, but nobody asked me....so they neither went against or with my wishes. However I do believe that having members from the TS community on the FCP is vital.

Who was on that committee and who did they represent?

habitformin wrote:

If the majority see two separate shooting groups in a FCP facing against each other to fight separate agendas as a good thing then so be it.

The majority won't. They'll know that their chosen sport, be it TS, Gun clubs, Deer hunting etc will all be represented equally.

habitformin wrote:

As for legalities of expulsion of already affiliated clubs and payments acceptance on dates that suited and didn't suit .

Everyone knew the fees were due. It was said at the AGM in 2015.

habitformin wrote:

And calling a whole club names by email ?

This i'd love to see! My name should be Thomas!

habitformin wrote:

And running shoots on ranges as affiliated clubs then dumping the club's once questions are asked. Well it's a pity these valid questions won't be asked on Saturday.

That would come under the motion posted already that will be discussed.

habitformin wrote:

That's my side of this
What's yours?

My side is that I want to have the full facts. I don't want to be going to the AGM on Sat only knowing some of the details and then having people tell me other information. I need to be able to make an informed decision. Going off half-cocked on the forum here doesn't help your cause.

Right I'm done for the night. night hon!

cra

LB6 wrote: »

Thank you. I know it's private post between him and you, so I'm not going to ask to see it.

That's interesting. Must check where it says that in the constitution.


Constitution available online at 11/1/16

"All bona fide members of affiliated clubs present at the A.G.M. may vote on any proposal put forward
during proceedings"

Nowhere does it say that you cannot part-take, just that you have to be a member of an affiliated club to vote.

As I said before in a couple of posts, the constitution online at the moment is not the constitution the committee seem to be working from so I wrote to the secretary for clarification and to that question he replied "Since An Riocht are unaffiliated you are unable to propose motions, vote or partake in the AGM. That is the constitution.". Bear in mind this is from the committee that will be running the AGM

LB6

cra wrote: »

As I said before in a couple of posts, the constitution online at the moment is not the constitution the committee seem to be working from so I wrote to the secretary for clarification and to that question he replied "Since An Riocht are unaffiliated you are unable to propose motions, vote or partake in the AGM. That is the constitution.". Bear in mind this is from the committee that will be running the AGM

Thank you.

I will be asking for a copy of the constitution to be emailed to me before the meeting.

habitformin

LB6 wrote: »

cra wrote: »

As I said before in a couple of posts, the constitution online at the moment is not the constitution the committee seem to be working from so I wrote to the secretary for clarification and to that question he replied "Since An Riocht are unaffiliated you are unable to propose motions, vote or partake in the AGM. That is the constitution.". Bear in mind this is from the committee that will be running the AGM

Thank you.

I will be asking for a copy of the constitution to be emailed to me before the meeting.

Might as well get all of them emailed to you lb6 all the different ones they are using that is.
There seems to be at least 2 different versions .and the committee are using both.

BattleCorp

habitformin wrote: »

Might as well get all of them emailed to you lb6 all the different ones they are using that is.
There seems to be at least 2 different versions .and the committee are using both.

The Constitution can only be changed if 2/3 of the clubs vote for it to be changed at the AGM. At least that's my understanding of how it works. So, if it was changed, it was changed a year ago at the request of the majority of members at the AGM.

habitformin

BattleCorp wrote: »

habitformin wrote: »

Might as well get all of them emailed to you lb6 all the different ones they are using that is.
There seems to be at least 2 different versions .and the committee are using both.

The Constitution can only be changed if 2/3 of the clubs vote for it to be changed at the AGM. At least that's my understanding of how it works. So, if it was changed, it was changed a year ago at the request of the majority of members at the AGM.

Agreed however they are pulling parts that suit themselves out of two different versions.

jb88

Tea drinker wrote: »

Well isn't this partly down to bad communication and misunderstanding on both sides - I mean the payment and expulsion part, it is "legal" but sloppy.
So why doesn't someone from another club ask for clarification and explanation of the rules, because (my understanding anyway!!!) they are following the rules in not allowing An Riocht take the floor...

Someone from another club has asked for Clarification. (ME)
So for everyone a club member not associated with An Rioicht has asked why, and the reasoning will be explained as is the request.

Someone from Leinster by the way
I think others may also have made motions.

habitformin

jb88 wrote: »

Tea drinker wrote: »

Well isn't this partly down to bad communication and misunderstanding on both sides - I mean the payment and expulsion part, it is "legal" but sloppy.
So why doesn't someone from another club ask for clarification and explanation of the rules, because (my understanding anyway!!!) they are following the rules in not allowing An Riocht take the floor...

Someone from another club has asked for Clarification. (ME)
So for everyone a club member not associated with An Rioicht has asked why, and the reasoning will be explained as is the request.

Someone from Leinster by the way
I think others may also have made motions.

Thank you that's very encouraging . This is the positive stuff I am used to on ranges .at least that's taken care of.

clivej

"All my bags are packed, I'm ready to go, I'm standing here outside your door,
I hate to wake you up to say good-bye.
But the dawn is breaking, it's early morn, the taxi's waiting He's blowing his horn.
Already I'm so lonesome I could die."

It's nearly time to get up from spreading all the sh!t on the ground and smell the roses.
Bring it on I say.

badaj0z

clivej wrote: »

It's nearly time to get up from spreading all the sh!t on the ground and smell the roses.
Bring it on I say.

Problem is Clive that, after you have finished spreading the manure around, the roses are not going to smell very nice.

clivej

badaj0z wrote: »

Problem is Clive that, after you have finished spreading the manure around, the roses are not going to smell very nice.

And what exactly is the 'manure' I've been spreading, none that I know of, only saying it as I have been told, not gossip.
In fact I think you should retract that remark ASAP

But I'll still carry on shooting the gallery comps.
Only today I booked the ferry for this year's Bisley & the Phoenix comps.
So to the ppl that are/have spread all the manure, sit in it or get out & carry on. Because if you's all don't then its you's that will be the end of the NASRPC

badaj0z

clivej wrote: »

only saying it as I have been told, not gossip.

Bit of a contradiction in terms there Clive.

habitformin

clivej wrote: »

And what exactly is the 'manure' I've been spreading, none that I know of, only saying it as I have been told, not gossip.
In fact I think you should retract that remark ASAP

But I'll still carry on shooting the gallery comps.
Only today I booked the ferry for this year's Bisley & the Phoenix comps.
So to the ppl that are/have spread all the manure, sit in it or get out & carry on. Because if you's all don't then its you's that will be the end of the NASRPC

Clive your glib smug attitude are at best indicative of someone who thinks he has won a great victory.
That's just sad as any division is in fact a loss.
I'm glad for you that you should find things so funny.
This situation is not funny and you are not helping at all by mouthing off like this.
The reality is simple if this falls apart you might as well stay in Bisley as it wont be long before there wont be much left here for you or any Gallery shooters.
Again I repeat myself ... Unity is the way forward. This SC is flawed and it is a rag tag bunch BUT IT WORKED.
We should stick together and not fall like the UK or Australia.
Can you not see the point? do you not care at all?
Does this actually please you?
Okay there are differences. building trust should have followed. stay in and make changes . but above all else keep the united front .
in time it would /will work.
all through this I have called for unity.
You seem to be against unity can you explain this please?

cra

clivej wrote: »

And what exactly is the 'manure' I've been spreading, none that I know of, only saying it as I have been told, not gossip.
In fact I think you should retract that remark ASAP

But I'll still carry on shooting the gallery comps.
Only today I booked the ferry for this year's Bisley & the Phoenix comps.
So to the ppl that are/have spread all the manure, sit in it or get out & carry on. Because if you's all don't then its you's that will be the end of the NASRPC

Are you that sure that everything you have been told is true and not manure, I have talked to a lot of people through out this debacle and some of the information being fed to them by the committee has the stench of manure from it. For example I was told that committee members have said that repeated offers have been made to An Riocht to meet and sort out differences and that An Riocht have refused to engage, that just stinks as it hasn't happened. It was suggested once by email and An Riocht wrote back but have received no reply. Committee members have threatened that if they were not all reelected then none of them will accept positions, now that's just bully boy tactics and it stinks. The biggest pile of all is the fact that the committee have effectively expelled at least 5 clubs and there is some stench off of that. If you are looking for manure Clivej then you are pointing your fork the wrong way and the blame for the end of the NASRPC will rest with the committee if they are allowed to carry on as they are.