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NASRPC's refusal to allow affiliation of clubs
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Tackleberry. wrote: »Clivej do you agree with the recent actions of not allowing clubs to affiliate to the NASRPC? Even when these clubs had been affiliated year before.
The way I would answer your question is......
If I did not pay my fees by the due date to say
the shooting range,
the golf club,
the tennis club,
ETC,
Would I still have any say in how these clubs should be run??
Would I still have a vote at these clubs AGM??
I don't think so.
While I'm not in total agreement with the way the NASRPC reacted to these clubs non-payment of affiliation fees, I didn't have to make any decisions about it, (I'm glad to say).
Downrange really hit the nail on the head with his (her) comments above.
I really would like, NO LOVE, to to have labels with all the user names (handles) of the people who posted on this thread at the AGM laid on a table. And ask these people to take them up, not to wear them. Just to see how many of back stabbers go to the AGM in January.0 -
Downrange
I don't know who (whom) you are but with your first post on this thread and forum you have said it all out as it is.
Well done and I support all you have written above (I couldn't have wrote it any better)
Thank you for your support.
However, you summed it up even better than I did :-
"The majority will always win out in the end."
Unfortunately to the detriment of shooting sports in Ireland. This kind of ignorance and apathy will definitely play directly into the hands of the people who want our sport brought down to a mere token of what it could be.
The underhanded actions of this committee especially a few who looked for favors from ministers apparently for the good of shooting will destroy any chance of unity. Why?because of their need to massage their over inflated ego's. Proof of this is in the latest round of score manipulation to include "favourites"in international teams. Something I might add this committee said they would address.
What has the main group of shooters lost to their bargaining behind our backs? How can anyone trust this committee after their manipulation of the constitution to suit their own agenda?
The club's give a committee their jobs to work for them. The committee take instruction from their members. Otherwise they aren't working for shooting anymore.
So maybe the majority will win but it won't necessarily be in favour of the current committee.
They have lost the trust of their members,their supporters are fewer and fewer and they have no one to thank only themselves.
PRIDE COMES BEFORE A FALL.0 -
Tea drinker wrote: »probably more to it than that, 2 sides to every biscuit.
A particular club had not paid up and as such were technically not affiliated, then when they realised that, they sent a cheque to affiliate after the event, but only after having first sent some unsavoury correspondence to the committee. So the cheque was sent back.0 -
"Back Stabbers" is that the name badge you will choose then Clive?
See post #2550 -
habitformin wrote: »Unfortunately to the detriment of shooting sports in Ireland. This kind of ignorance and apathy will definitely play directly into the hands of the people who want our sport brought down to a mere token of what it could be.
The underhanded actions of this committee especially a few who looked for favors from ministers apparently for the good of shooting will destroy any chance of unity. Why?because of their need to massage their over inflated ego's. Proof of this is in the latest round of score manipulation to include "favourites"in international teams. Something I might add this committee said they would address.
What has the main group of shooters lost to their bargaining behind our backs? How can anyone trust this committee after their manipulation of the constitution to suit their own agenda?
The club's give a committee their jobs to work for them. The committee take instruction from their members. Otherwise they aren't working for shooting anymore.
So maybe the majority will win but it won't necessarily be in favour of the current committee.
They have lost the trust of their members,their supporters are fewer and fewer and they have no one to thank only themselves.
PRIDE COMES BEFORE A FALL.
"score manipulation to include "favourites"in international teams"
Scores were not ever at any time manipulated. Average scores calculated based on best three results over twelve months resulted in rounding differences that might not have been there had it been calculated a different way. The committee have addressed this - they have already agreed to use a different formula next year but they would not agree to changing the formula mid-year and rightly so.
I raised some important issues above, including the secret meetings and I suggested constructive dialog but you have not yet responded and unfortunately you have dismissed some recent comments as “ignorance”. That is most disappointing.0 -
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Was a renewal notice sent to any of the clubs to remind them that monies were due?
I still haven't had any answer to this, unless I've missed it.
If no renewal notice was sent, then the committee are to blame for clubs not renewing. If it was sent, and after non payment, and a reminder not sent, again the committee are at fault. If however, a renewal and reminder were sent, then the relevant clubs are at fault.
Despite this, it has never been a policy, that I am aware of, for the NASRPC not to accept a renewal, no matter how late it was sent.
What has changed, besides the obvious, for all the recent refusals to accept affiliation?0 -
habitformin wrote: »"Back Stabbers" is that the name badge you will choose then Clive?
See post #255
I've no problem with that.
So you will then know who I am (as many already do), will you introduce yourself to me??0 -
nice to see some of the committee joining in on the banter !!!!
now that you are here, why cant you answer some of the questions that were asked of you !!!!
give us some direct, as you see it,information regarding clubs that are affiliated ????
your website is so out of date !!!
If your website is out of date what else is out of date ?????
clivej ill introduce myself to you when next our paths cross, which wont be too far away and dont worry i know who you are0 -
habitformin wrote: »"Back Stabbers" is that the name badge you will choose then Clive?
See post #255
I've no problem with that.
So you will then know who I am (as many already do), will you introduce yourself to me??
And I am the one who doesn't get sarcasm.lo
But why not.0 -
nice to see some of the committee joining in on the banter !!!!
now that you are here, why cant you answer some of the questions that were asked of you !!!!
give us some direct, as you see it,information regarding clubs that are affiliated ????
your website is so out of date !!!
If your website is out of date what else is out of date ?????
clivej ill introduce myself to you when next our paths cross, which wont be too far away and dont worry i know who you are
As I am a new contributor on this thread, I assume that you might be suggesting that I am a member of the committee but I am sorry to disappoint you, I am nothing more than an ordinary shooter, just like most of the contributors on here. My knowledge and opinions are based on listening to the issues on both of the fence and making up my own mind.
By the way, I agree with you - the website is very out of date.0 -
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habitformin wrote: »Unfortunately to the detriment of shooting sports in Ireland. This kind of ignorance and apathy will definitely play directly into the hands of the people who want our sport brought down to a mere token of what it could be.
The underhanded actions of this committee especially a few who looked for favors from ministers apparently for the good of shooting will destroy any chance of unity. Why?because of their need to massage their over inflated ego's. Proof of this is in the latest round of score manipulation to include "favourites"in international teams. Something I might add this committee said they would address.
What has the main group of shooters lost to their bargaining behind our backs? How can anyone trust this committee after their manipulation of the constitution to suit their own agenda?
The club's give a committee their jobs to work for them. The committee take instruction from their members. Otherwise they aren't working for shooting anymore.
So maybe the majority will win but it won't necessarily be in favour of the current committee.
They have lost the trust of their members,their supporters are fewer and fewer and they have no one to thank only themselves.
PRIDE COMES BEFORE A FALL.
"score manipulation to include "favourites"in international teams"
Scores were not ever at any time manipulated. Average scores calculated based on best three results over twelve months resulted in rounding differences that might not have been there had it been calculated a different way. The committee have addressed this - they have already agreed to use a different formula next year but they would not agree to changing the formula mid-year and rightly so.
I raised some important issues above, including the secret meetings and I suggested constructive dialog but you have not yet responded and unfortunately you have dismissed some recent comments as ignorance . That is most disappointing.
Cherry pick the words I use if you will.I will try to make my point differently.
The lack of interest in addressing the current issues is disturbing.
The refusal to call an EGM in the face of a genuine call from members is wrong.
The complete lack of communication and total lack of respect for member clubs from this committee is ignorant.
Support of this behaviour is wrong
No information is forthcoming from the committee so it makes matters worse. That is the ignorance I refer to.0 -
habitformin wrote: »Cherry pick the words I use if you will.I will try to make my point differently.
The lack of interest in addressing the current issues is disturbing.
The refusal to call an EGM in the face of a genuine call from members is wrong.
The complete lack of communication and total lack of respect for member clubs from this committee is ignorant.
Support of this behaviour is wrong
No information is forthcoming from the committee so it makes matters worse. That is the ignorance I refer to.
Thank you for clarifying.
If you say that the committee has a lack of interest in addressing the current issue - why then do you think they called an information meeting some weeks ago? At that meeting, I believe that they addressed each matter in great detail and a lot of information was forthcoming. How do you think that myself and others are so well informed?
I, and others are not convinced that the call for an EGM was indeed genuine as a number of clubs affiliation status has been called into question.
I agree that communication could have been better and they have admitted that themselves but lets face it, they are not behind closed doors, they are available to approach at certain ranges on a weekly basis. Again, how do you think that myself and others are so well informed? We asked them.
Why don't some of you that are so against them make an effort to communicate with the committee directly and ask questions? You might be surprised that they might just welcome an opportunity to talk. They are, after all, only human like the rest of us.0 -
The way I would answer your question is......
If I did not pay my fees by the due date to say
the shooting range,
the golf club,
the tennis club,
ETC,
Would I still have any say in how these clubs should be run??
Would I still have a vote at these clubs AGM??
I don't think so.
While I'm not in total agreement with the way the NASRPC reacted to these clubs non-payment of affiliation fees, I didn't have to make any decisions about it, (I'm glad to say).
Downrange really hit the nail on the head with his (her) comments above.
I really would like, NO LOVE, to to have labels with all the user names (handles) of the people who posted on this thread at the AGM laid on a table. And ask these people to take them up, not to wear them. Just to see how many of back stabbers go to the AGM in January.
Glad to hear you dont agree totally with the way the the NASRPC death with the clubs, theres history in the way payments where never on time to the NASRPC which is what makes this a hard one to chew on, its also seen as tactical move to refuse affiliation because there where signs of a rift because of the Nargc/SC NASRPC issues, i like others here have no issue with the NASRPC as a body but just dont agree with the way clubs affiliation money was accepted at any time in the past but to cut the so called trouble makers out the constitution was applied and payments that where in the hands of the NASRPC where returned as late..
I can't go to the AGM as my club is no longer affiliated.
I would appreciate if you might ask this question on my behalf Clivej.
Can the NASRPC show the accounts so as to reflect timely payments of clubs for yearly affiliation to the NASRPC as required by the constitution.
I like you Clivej don't agree fully on how the NASRPC ended clubs affiliation, all the clubs by right should be at the AGM where issues can be resolved, as for the EGM its looks as if thats being ignored...i can only see another split and organisation being formed from this, which i think is not for the best as pistol and gallery shooting is small enough as it is...0 -
Tackleberry. wrote: »Glad to hear you dont agree totally with the way the the NASRPC death with the clubs, theres history in the way payments where never on time to the NASRPC which is what makes this a hard one to chew on, its also seen as tactical move to refuse affiliation because there where signs of a rift because of the Nargc/SC NASRPC issues, i like others here have no issue with the NASRPC as a body but just dont agree with the way clubs affiliation money was accepted at any time in the past but to cut the so called trouble makers out the constitution was applied and payments that where in the hands of the NASRPC where returned as late..
I can't go to the AGM as my club is no longer affiliated.
I would appreciate if you might ask this question on my behalf Clivej.
Can the NASRPC show the accounts so as to reflect timely payments of clubs for yearly affiliation to the NASRPC as required by the constitution.
I like you Clivej don't agree fully on how the NASRPC ended clubs affiliation, all the clubs by right should be at the AGM where issues can be resolved, as for the EGM its looks as if thats being ignored...i can only see another split and organisation being formed from this, which i think is not for the best as pistol and gallery shooting is small enough as it is...
At the meeting in the Manor Hotel, Abbeyleix, the accounts were to be forwarded on to all the clubs secretary's. Affiliated clubs would only get these I would think.
AT every AGM I have attended the accounts were there for any member to look over. Not sure if I have answered your question Tack.0 -
Add your reply here.habitformin wrote: »Cherry pick the words I use if you will.I will try to make my point differently.
The lack of interest in addressing the current issues is disturbing.
The refusal to call an EGM in the face of a genuine call from members is wrong.
The complete lack of communication and total lack of respect for member clubs from this committee is ignorant.
Support of this behaviour is wrong
No information is forthcoming from the committee so it makes matters worse. That is the ignorance I refer to.
Thank you for clarifying.
If you say that the committee has a lack of interest in addressing the current issue - why then do you think they called an information meeting some weeks ago? At that meeting, I believe that they addressed each matter in great detail and a lot of information was forthcoming. How do you think that myself and others are so well informed?
I, and others are not convinced that the call for an EGM was indeed genuine as a number of clubs affiliation status has been called into question.
I agree that communication could have been better and they have admitted that themselves but lets face it, they are not behind closed doors, they are available to approach at certain ranges on a weekly basis. Again, how do you think that myself and others are so well informed? We asked them.
Why don't some of you that are so against them make an effort to communicate with the committee directly and ask questions? You might be surprised that they might just welcome an opportunity to talk. They are, after all, only human like the rest of us.habitformin wrote: »Cherry pick the words I use if you will.I will try to make my point differently.
The lack of interest in addressing the current issues is disturbing.
The refusal to call an EGM in the face of a genuine call from members is wrong.
The complete lack of communication and total lack of respect for member clubs from this committee is ignorant.
Support of this behaviour is wrong
No information is forthcoming from the committee so it makes matters worse. That is the ignorance I refer to.
Thank you for clarifying.
If you say that the committee has a lack of interest in addressing the current issue - why then do you think they called an information meeting some weeks ago? At that meeting, I believe that they addressed each matter in great detail and a lot of information was forthcoming. How do you think that myself and others are so well informed?
I, and others are not convinced that the call for an EGM was indeed genuine as a number of clubs affiliation status has been called into question.
I agree that communication could have been better and they have admitted that themselves but lets face it, they are not behind closed doors, they are available to approach at certain ranges on a weekly basis. Again, how do you think that myself and others are so well informed? We asked them.
Why don't some of you that are so against them make an effort to communicate with the committee directly and ask questions? You might be surprised that they might just welcome an opportunity to talk. They are, after all, only human like the rest of us.
To Downrange,
It's obvious from your overall input who you believe. However it's still not okay that this committee gave an undertaking to re-enter the SC in hilltop and then did exactly the opposite. The current committee then showed their arrogance when they came out with"we didn't ask permission from our affiliated clubs to enter this sports coalition,so we don't have to ask for permission to leave". Who exactly do they think they work for? After all they are supposed to be non paid volunteers,why such resistance to change? I know if I got this much flak from my members I would at least look inside and question my actions to see what has so many calling for my resignation. From the above you can clearly see attempts were made to approach the committee members but the aftermath of this was more of the same, ignored and more solo runs . Exactly the same behaviour that caused distrust in the sports coalition,
All these actions have caused a split in a coalition that was effective. A united organisation is what I am still calling for. This committee are the only obstacle preventing this their EGO's prevent them from seeing their error.
AgaIn that word PRIDE.
Swallow hard take some heavy flak and back down that's their only course if they truly have the interest of shooting on this island at heart. Let go of their celebrity status and get back on the range as mere shooters like you and I .Give the reigns to some others for a while let the dust settle. By all means keep the extra seats caused by this split .use this to our advantage .sit beside with and in with the sports coalition as members
There should only be two sides at any negotiations not three.
We need unity now more than ever not rock stars.0 -
Well said downrange, as you said Egos are the down fall and the problem. I have been watching and listening for quite sometime on all these issues. I say if the committee still ignore the legitimate call for an EGM the only route to have a say will be the AGM. Either event will do to ask the questions that need to be asked. No stage shows or dramas no prearranged answers ie (Abbyleix info meeting) more like a directional meeting. And before you ask yes I did attend and took notes. It will be good to actually get the people that know the truth in the same room for once.!!!! Looking forward to it.0
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Penny drop moment I just realised if the club I normally attend is not allowed to have a say then I am at a huge loss, all this pontificating here will mean nothing if the club's not allowed to affiliate cannot vote at the AGM. Just as well . Probably won't make a blind bit of difference anyway.0
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habitformin wrote: »Penny drop moment I just realised if the club I normally attend is not allowed to have a say then I am at a huge loss, all this pontificating here will mean nothing if the club's not allowed to affiliate cannot vote at the AGM. Just as well . Probably won't make a blind bit of difference anyway.
That's the best post you have written in this entire thread that looks like you know what your talking about0 -
habitformin wrote: »Penny drop moment I just realised if the club I normally attend is not allowed to have a say then I am at a huge loss, all this pontificating here will mean nothing if the club's not allowed to affiliate cannot vote at the AGM. Just as well . Probably won't make a blind bit of difference anyway.
That's the best post you have written in this entire thread that looks like you know what your talking about
Really Clive that's the best you can come up with ? The shooting fraternity is tearing itself apart over rubbish in Ireland you come back with this? Again we will go the way of the Aussies and the UK is that that you want?
At least I have an interest and I am correct when I say unity is best .what's your answer how would fix this division?
How about some answers instead of this rubbish,rhetoric and one liners ?
Put your shoulder to the wheel and help .0 -
Apologies all my compliment was meant for habitformin ☺0
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Tackleberry. wrote: »I can't go to the AGM as my club is no longer affiliated.
This is incorrect. Just because your club is no longer affiliated, does not preclude you from going to the meeting and getting the information you require.
The AGM is an open meeting. You are more than welcome to go along just as any Joe Soap from the street can go.
Pose your question in AOB section yourself and that way you'll be replied to directly and not getting 3rd 4th and 5th hand replies and self opinions as whats happening on this forum.0 -
A particular club had not paid up and as such were technically not affiliated, then when they realised that, they sent a cheque to affiliate after the event, but only after having first sent some unsavoury correspondence to the committee. So the cheque was sent back.
downrange you have the sequence of events wrong, not that it will matter a whole lot. I won't name names but just to set the record straight, the cheque was given to a NASRPC committee member back in September as he was going to a committee meeting, that meeting was canceled so he rang another committee member to inform him, he was accused of lying and told to reconsider his position on the committee (why?). The cheque was given back to An Riocht by that committee member as it was felt it was better to hand it to the treasurer personally at the next opportunity, this happened at the shoot at Hilltop and some cross words were had. We all know what happened at Hilltop and what the committee said they would do and following the uturn by the committee An Riocht wrote an angry letter to the committee.
If this is the reason for rejecting An Riochts affiliation it is a poor one. I say if because we do not know if it is, it has been spouted around unofficially as the reason but the only official announcement concerned the timing of payment.0 -
This is incorrect. Just because your club is no longer affiliated, does not preclude you from going to the meeting and getting the information you require.
The AGM is an open meeting. You are more than welcome to go along just as any Joe Soap from the street can go.
Pose your question in AOB section yourself and that way you'll be replied to directly and not getting 3rd 4th and 5th hand replies and self opinions as whats happening on this forum.
Unfortunatley you are incorrect as a member of an "no longer affiliated" club he may be able to attend (not sure in that as I didn't ask) but he cannot partake in the AGM (I asked and that is what I was told)0 -
One of the main points on this thread has been the "At Hilltop the members wanted to stay in the SC, and then the NASRPC pulled out" or words to that effect.
At the same time as the letter from the NASRPC was being read out at Hilltop the same letter was read out by the NASRPC secretary at Harbour House to the people there.
After a lot of talking it was bought up as to WHY the NASRPC were still in the SC. As I heard it, it was the majority of people that said to get out from the SC now.
Now with this extra info was it not up to the committee to make a decision for it's members about what to do?? And they made the correct choice and got their voice on the FCP. Whereas by staying with the SC it would have been Des Croftens panel because the NASRPC did not get an invite onto that/DC's panel.0 -
Are you sure about that? I thought that a person could take part, but they would not be permitted to vote in any new committee or on any part of the consititution if their club was not affiliated. I must check it out further.0
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I won't name names but just to set the record straight, the cheque was given to a NASRPC committee member back in September as he was going to a committee meeting, that meeting was canceled so he rang another committee member to inform him, he was accused of lying and told to reconsider his position on the committee (why?). The cheque was given back to An Riocht by that committee member as it was felt it was better to hand it to the treasurer personally at the next opportunity, this happened at the shoot at Hilltop and some cross words were had. We all know what happened at Hilltop and what the committee said they would do and following the uturn by the committee An Riocht wrote an angry letter to the committee.
If this is the reason for rejecting An Riochts affiliation it is a poor one. I say if because we do not know if it is, it has been spouted around unofficially as the reason but the only official announcement concerned the timing of payment.
Just in case I'm being thick but can you clarify a couple of things for me please?
You are saying that the cheque was given to a NASRPC member back in September, that's clear. Did the NASRPC Committee member then go off with the cheque with the intention of bringing it to the next meeting?
Then you are saying that the NASRPC Committee member phoned somebody else on the Committee to say that they had the cheque and they were called a liar? Do I have that bit correct? What was he accused of lying about? That he didn't have the cheque?
That sounds strange.0 -
downrange you have the sequence of events wrong, not that it will matter a whole lot. I won't name names but just to set the record straight, the cheque was given to a NASRPC committee member back in September as he was going to a committee meeting, that meeting was canceled so he rang another committee member to inform him, he was accused of lying and told to reconsider his position on the committee (why?). The cheque was given back to An Riocht by that committee member as it was felt it was better to hand it to the treasurer personally at the next opportunity, this happened at the shoot at Hilltop and some cross words were had. We all know what happened at Hilltop and what the committee said they would do and following the uturn by the committee An Riocht wrote an angry letter to the committee.
If this is the reason for rejecting An Riochts affiliation it is a poor one. I say if because we do not know if it is, it has been spouted around unofficially as the reason but the only official announcement concerned the timing of payment.
"............the cheque was given to a NASRPC committee member back in September as he was going to a committee meeting, that meeting was canceled........"
Why so late too affiliate to the NASRPC??
Why not send it to the treasurer??
Was this before or after the 'Secret' meeting of clubs met to oust the top table??0 -
BattleCorp wrote: »Just in case I'm being thick but can you clarify a couple of things for me please?
You are saying that the cheque was given to a NASRPC member back in September, that's clear. Did the NASRPC Committee member then go off with the cheque with the intention of bringing it to the next meeting?
Then you are saying that the NASRPC Committee member phoned somebody else on the Committee to say that they had the cheque and they were called a liar? Do I have that bit correct? What was he accused of lying about? That he didn't have the cheque?
That sounds strange.
That is it in a nutshell and it does sound strange I agree, did some of the committee not want An Riocht on board or what I do not know but that is what happened.0 -
Are you sure about that? I thought that a person could take part, but they would not be permitted to vote in any new committee or on any part of the consititution if their club was not affiliated. I must check it out further.
As sure as can be, I wrote to the NASRPC secretary and that is the answer I received. I don't disagree with it by the way it would be stupid if just anyone could walk into a meeting and ask questions and make proposals, it would lead to a lot of messing.0 -
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Thanks for calling me stupid!
I was under the impression that questions could be asked as it's an OPEN meeting. I never said anything about making proposals. And I did say that they couldn't vote!0
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