Irish Rail & Waterford

comeraghs

Why do Irish Rail continue regarding Waterford as less deserving of services compared to the other cities.

Just look at Irish Rail running trains from Dublin to Cork, Limerick & Galway but not Waterford after Monday's match v Bosnia.

Surely the Dublin - Carlow - Kilkenny - Waterford would have as much demand as those other cities!

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Jamie2k9

comeraghs wrote: »

Why do Irish Rail continue regarding Waterford as less deserving of services compared to the other cities.

Just look at Irish Rail running trains from Dublin to Cork, Limerick & Galway but not Waterford after Monday's match v Bosnia.

Surely the Dublin - Carlow - Kilkenny - Waterford would have as much demand as those other cities!

Demand is an element and the usage a service would receive. I do think there is an element before they looked at it and there is no demand.

There may also be cost complications in that the station here requires manpower to operate signalling equipment out to the Newrath level crossing where as Dublin-Cork/Galway and Waterford until Newrath is automatically and centrally controlled in Dublin 24/7 365 days a year regardless of service so it requires higher costs than the rest.

I think demand is there however its' ensuring people use it which is an issue.

The treatment of the GAA hurling games back in August by them was a complete joke as well.

Complaining in numbers usually works.

TheQuietFella

I can't understand the lack of train usage either and not just in the lack of use
for special events but for the transport of the general public.
I was in Dublin on both Thurs' & Fri' & travelled both the M7/9 & M50
and the volume of traffic was horrendous. Surely there should be some effort
made by all concerned to alleviate the road congestion from the motorways
by making more trains available to transport the public to their destinations!

dzilla

I can't understand why a Waterford - Limerick service is not viable. Like it goes at awkward times twice a day. Yet bus eireann have a regular near hourly service. Considering it serves clonmel/carrick/cahir also its kinda baffling.

Sully

One is presuming that the carriages aren't expected to be overflowing with people from that route going to the match. They judge demand on ticket sales. So if sales are slack with normal carriages or if the route has history of not carrying large volumes of people than don't expect them to throw on extra carriages just to please us

Jamie2k9

Sully wrote: »

One is presuming that the carriages aren't expected to be overflowing with people from that route going to the match. They judge demand on ticket sales. So if sales are slack with normal carriages or if the route has history of not carrying large volumes of people than don't expect them to throw on extra carriages just to please us

While I agree there is a higher % of walk up fares on the route compared to Cork for example. A big element of this is assumptions by IE and unwillingness to test a service.

Look at Dublin Irish Rail claimed for years that there was no demand for late night Dublin commuter services at Christmas and NY and here were are 2 years on they have been running and expanded over the last 2 years.

Take this Monday's service to Galway just 34 of 265 seats sold, if that's profitable to run then Waterford is profitable to run.

BBM77

dzilla wrote: »

I can't understand why a Waterford - Limerick service is not viable. Like it goes at awkward times twice a day. Yet bus eireann have a regular near hourly service. Considering it serves clonmel/carrick/cahir also its kinda baffling.

My father worked in CIE and he was telling me that once. That is what they do to lines they don’t want. They run the trains at odd times with low demand and then say it’s not being used and should be closed.

Jamie2k9

BBM77 wrote: »

My father worked in CIE and he was telling me that once. That is what they do to lines they don’t want. They run the trains at odd times with low demand and then say it’s not being used and should be closed.

True but in this case this line required around 10 gate keepers who require hourly pay which adds up to significant costs, current set up has them on split shifts hence the big gap between the morning/afternoon services.

Gael23

dzilla wrote: »

I can't understand why a Waterford - Limerick service is not viable. Like it goes at awkward times twice a day. Yet bus eireann have a regular near hourly service. Considering it serves clonmel/carrick/cahir also its kinda baffling.

I spent 4 years making 2 return journeys on that route every week. The issue for me was having to change at Limerixk Junction, something that I didn't feel safe doing at night this time of year in particular. The inconvenient times were another reason also.

dzilla

Gael23 wrote: »

I spent 4 years making 2 return journeys on that route every week. The issue for me was having to change at Limerixk Junction, something that I didn't feel safe doing at night this time of year in particular. The inconvenient times were another reason also.

Why does the train not go straight into limerick anyway?

cgcsb

Irish Rail close routes by reducing the usefulness of their service. They done it to Rosslare-Waterford. The bridge was well positioned to offer very competitive journey times between South Wexford and the City.

Government is now spending hundreds of millions on a new southern bypass of New Ross, such is the demand for travel. Go figure.

Gael23

cgcsb wrote: »

Irish Rail close routes by reducing the usefulness of their service. They done it to Rosslare-Waterford. The bridge was well positioned to offer very competitive journey times between South Wexford and the City.

Government is now spending hundreds of millions on a new southern bypass of New Ross, such is the demand for travel. Go figure.

I agree, to a point. I know New Ross very well and it has been choking in traffic for a good 20 years.

cgcsb

Gael23 wrote: »

I agree, to a point. I know New Ross very well and it has been choking in traffic for a good 20 years.

surely a decent rail service between south Wexford and Waterford would have relieved same? But of course IÉ just made it difficult to use until it was no longer used.

tonc76

cgcsb wrote: »

surely a decent rail service between south Wexford and Waterford would have relieved same? But of course IÉ just made it difficult to use until it was no longer used.

How much of a demand is there for a service between south Wexford and Waterford though?

Surely most of the congestion at Ross is created by passing traffic i.e. Rosslare to Cork/Kerry etc and vice versa

Gael23

tonc76 wrote: »

How much of a demand is there for a service between south Wexford and Waterford though?

Surely most of the congestion at Ross is created by passing traffic i.e. Rosslare to Cork/Kerry etc and vice versa

Agreed. The nearest stop to New Ross was about 8 miles out the countryside. Much of the traffic is en route elsewhere and doesn't need to go into the town.

cgcsb

tonc76 wrote: »

How much of a demand is there for a service between south Wexford and Waterford though?

Surely most of the congestion at Ross is created by passing traffic i.e. Rosslare to Cork/Kerry etc and vice versa

Enough to spend hundreds of millions on a parallel motorway evidently, pleanty of scope for a good service to Limerick with connections to Cork Galway and Kerry

tonc76

cgcsb wrote: »

Enough to spend hundreds of millions on a parallel motorway evidently, pleanty of scope for a good service to Limerick with connections to Cork Galway and Kerry

No idea what that's supposed to mean?

Wanderer78

sad not to see the new ross-waterford line being used. recently tried to walk it but had to do it mostly by road.

robtri

Wanderer78 wrote: »

sad not to see the new ross-waterford line being used. recently tried to walk it but had to do it mostly by road.

It is a shame, unfortuantely it just wasn't any where near profitable as a passenger service.

the line is fantastic to walk the parts that you can, especially just past Glenmore, the marshes and the old bridge. I do believe they are looking at opening it as a greenway...

Wanderer78

robtri wrote: »

It is a shame, unfortuantely it just wasn't any where near profitable as a passenger service.

the line is fantastic to walk the parts that you can, especially just past Glenmore, the marshes and the old bridge. I do believe they are looking at opening it as a greenway...

i understand is does come down to the bottom line but we re in desperate need of a serious upgrade to our rail network. its a pity we abandoned most of our network over the decades as we d have an amazing system now if we didnt.

i found it almost impossible to walk most of the line actually so i pretty much gave up after a while and just walked the road back to waterford. fantastic scenery though. they are looking into converting it into a greenway but i think id prefer the vintage railway idea as we ll have tons of these greenways eventually. something different would be nice. be a nice alternative tourist attraction.

Martin_D

A few thoughts on rail service from/to Waterford.
Economic cost is a key factor - use it or lose it is a reasonable business approach.
Rosslare to Waterford - no capacity, no freight, no tourist use - don't kid yourself that modern tourists want to opt for a train from rosslare to start their tour of Ireland (the few cyclists and back packers are never going to make an economic mass) - developing the volume is not a realistic option and developing a viable option cannot wait the several years you might marginally increase numbers.
The car ferry to Passage East and car pooling has eliminated any need for a rail line from Wexford for students and work . Flexible working hours, frequent services on ferry, independence of car beat the rigid train services alone a fixed line any day.
Waterford/Limerick - why would this route be anything other than a nostalgic route - what does rail offer over car and bus? the use of this line is minimal and a bit of an indulgence. Freight use will do its own thing based on cost/benefit analysis - just because freight might be economical (and the transport market will determine that) does not mean hat you have to use an open line for passengers just because its there!
Waterford Dublin- this s a very successful line and frequency is greatly improved in recent years. Use of the service from Waterford is patchy - whereas use from Kilkenny and other stops is high. Reliability has been excellent. Timetable options are good - any further options have to be proven - what other departure times are required? - we have daily departures at shortly after 6 am, 7 am and 7.50 - thats a great service as a regular user of this line these 3 morning options are excellent
Options out of Dublin are reasonable too - outside of early departure - the routine start shortly after 10 am and again after 1 pm - 3pm, 4.40, 5.35, 6.35. - having been on all of these regularly over recent years they seem to meet demand - in fact the number disembarking at Waterford can be small at Waterford compared to Carlow and Kilkenny.
I definitely think a use it or lose it needs to be clearly understood by the Waterford Public. Already there is a service in later evening to Carlow only.

A few issues!. - the Station at Waterford is dated, lacks reasonable facilities (although the increase in ticket machines is welcome). The shop is limited and lacks any real service identity (it is VERY functional and limited); the flooring is deadly in the station and toilets - slips and falls are almost expected.
Exit from Station is chronic - at times dangerous and potemtially lethal (not and exaggeration in my view).
Dublin to Waterford - far to often the landing platform is one of the far off platforms.
Far too often the departure platform is not clear until very close to scheduled departure time - frequently the passengers for the Waterford line are held in the main station area pending announcement of the platform - whereas it seems to me the Cork bound passengers know almost by rote that their train is at Platform 5 by routine.
Frequently the Waterford train is made up of two connected trains - this is fine from a transportation perspective but it means that the service trolly has to split its operation to either unconnected train section and is not therefore available to the entire passenger group for the trip duration.

On a point of annoyance - anyone notice the level of vermin pigeons tolerated in Heuston? - it is unacceptable in a primarily enclose space - give an inch and the feckers will take your sandwich !!!

Overall I have found the staff of Irish rail to be a nice bunch of staff. The catering staff pleasant, the ticket checkers efficient, the fraud checkers effective.

Oh! by the way you do not need you ticket to exit Plunkett station - despite the formal announcement on the train on arrival at Waterford - this has been the routine announcement for a few years now - it is not true and cannot be currently implemented, there are no exit barriers!! - it is sloppy and typical of "corporate" Irish Rail.

Finally - the train fare from Waterford to Dublin is very competitive - compared to the car or bus (given the convenience, reliability, and comfort) - particularly compared to fares from Cork (check it out)

BTW - I don't work for IR, I am a frequent user, I don't have relatives working for them & I do at timers encounter frustrations on the service - bit overall it works for me.

Jamie2k9

Waterford Dublin- this s a very successful line and frequency is greatly improved in recent years. Use of the service from Waterford is patchy - whereas use from Kilkenny and other stops is high. Reliability has been excellent. Timetable options are good - any further options have to be proven - what other departure times are required? - we have daily departures at shortly after 6 am, 7 am and 7.50 - thats a great service as a regular user of this line these 3 morning options are excellent

Options out of Dublin are reasonable too - outside of early departure - the routine start shortly after 10 am and again after 1 pm - 3pm, 4.40, 5.35, 6.35. - having been on all of these regularly over recent years they seem to meet demand - in fact the number disembarking at Waterford can be small at Waterford compared to Carlow and Kilkenny.

I definitely think a use it or lose it needs to be clearly understood by the Waterford Public. Already there is a service in later evening to Carlow only.

Stats show Waterford is busier than Kilkenny and from what I gather Dublin Coach has hit them particularly hard from Kilkenny.

Timetable is generally good however 18.35 is to early for the lsat service you would struggle unless you are working in minutes of the Luas to make it. I do agree if more people made an effort to use it (I mean not free loaders with passes) it would be good.

Oh! by the way you do not need you ticket to exit Plunkett station - despite the formal announcement on the train on arrival at Waterford - this has been the routine announcement for a few years now - it is not true and cannot be currently implemented, there are no exit barriers!! - it is sloppy and typical of "corporate" Irish Rail.

Station redevelopment would of had them, PA hasn't been updated since they entered service in 2007 ish.

Wanderer78

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

.....I mean not free loaders with passes....

:rolleyes:

Jamie2k9

Been really honest, Irish Rail commercial department wouldn't consider them passengers when exploring additional services.

They are paid the equivalent of one trip per year for each pass in circulation.