**Spoilers** Series 9, Episode 9 - "Sleep No More"

pixelburp

Ah, so this weeks story is a Mark Gatiss scripted, found-footage episode; great. Two things I'm not the biggest fan of. To be fair, Gatiss' writing can be patchy, and while stories like 'Night Terrors' and 'Cold War' were pretty good, particularly the latter imo, he also wrote Victory of the Daleks. So there's that.

Then it looks like we're getting the episode in a 'found footage' format, a gimmick that's well and truly played out by now in cinema. Personally, I can't stand it, and the only found-footage movie I've genuinely enjoyed was Trollhunter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZzgJfIQDvg

flazio

I think Gatiss has had more hits than misses Unquiet Dead and Crimson Horror are among some of my favourites. And of course the Adventure in Time and Space.
Having said that after two real good pieces, I'm not sure if this will be as good. We'll give a shot though

Also Starring LeVar Burton

I really can't stand found footage. I'm struggling to even watch this episode - essentially it's just on in the background for me here.

Busi_Girl08

....What?!

Axwell

Worst episode in a long time, struggled to get to the end of that!

SueBoom

Um...???

Busi_Girl08

I mean, I'm all for suspension of disbelief, it's Doctor Who, for feck sake.

But "The sleep in your eye has mutated into a ravenous monster"

Even Jenna Coleman couldn't hide the "dafuq" look in her face in that episode.

TheDoctor

Was the Masie Williams voice at the end for next weeks episode?

Haha
after the little adipose dudes I was happy enough with that
I liked the concept, and getting rid of sleep does sound like an idea someone would come up with

I don't like found footage but this was clever enough imo

pixelburp

As expected, half of that episode I spent trying to keep nausea in check. My GF, who usually half-watches alongside me, couldn't look at the screen at all; I really wish I could go back in time and persuade the Blair Witch people to chose another career; Found Footage is a total pox.

Regards the episode? Pretty much gubbins that stretched credulity to breaking point. Sure, none of us watch DR. Who for the strict scientific background n' all, but the Sandmen were just ludicrous. Smacks of concept writing really: the BBC wanted a Monster of the Week, and this was the best Gatiss could come up with on first draft.

Axwell

TheDoctor wrote: »

Was the Masie Williams voice at the end for next weeks episode?

Yes, shes in the alternative trailer too.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

It was awful and tedious to try and follow, so I didn't... Something about the sleep in your eyes turning into monsters and your man disintigrates at the end - did I miss anything important that I should know for future episodes?

Been a decent enough season so far, but this was the low point (actually it's probably the worst episode of all new Who)... The majority of viewers on twitter/facebook etc. seem to have hated it also. Thankfully, it's not a two-parter anyway. Most exciting part of the episode was the trailer for next week.

Kev W

Worst episode since Love and Monsters. The current series has gone off a cliff since episode 3.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Kev W wrote: »

Worst episode since Love and Monsters. The current series has gone off a cliff since episode 3.

I actually preferred Love and Monsters.

Axwell

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

did I miss anything important that I should know for future episodes?

Absolutely nothing - its a stand alone episode written by Gatiss. He wants to have a sequel to it at some point down the line. Basically he wanted it to end with the Dr unable to figure everything out rather than save the day so im sure we will see the Sandman next season at some point if he puts the episode in there.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Axwell wrote: »

Absolutely nothing - its a stand alone episode written by Gatiss. He wants to have a sequel to it at some point down the line. Basically he wanted it to end with the Dr unable to figure everything out rather than save the day so im sure we will see the Sandman next season at some point if he puts the episode in there.

Let's hope there'll be enough critical backlash from this episode, that his planned sequel doesn't come to pass.

FloatingVoter

Didn't Clara get sleep in her eye at one point :rolleyes: ? I was so bored I don't know if Gatiss remembered to conclude that or if it meant anything. Woeful episode (best part was finding out it wasn't going to limp into a second week).

Das Kitty

Wait... What?

Did any of that actually happen? I have no idea.

Big load of balls whatever way you look at it.

CastorTroy

Was that Ellen McClain as the computer? Or just someone trying to sound like her. No name in the credits.

As for the episode, I'm trying to figure out if it happened or not. The guy narrating said he made it up, yet the Doctor saying he didn't understand wouldn't really tie into that. I was expecting it to be all a dream, but then that would be a repeat of the Christmas special

Busi_Girl08

That's a good question. Basically the narrator used a glitch/electric signal to change the sleep pattern in the brain and therefore implant the sleepy eye guck virus in anyone who watches the video. Turning them all into sandmen?

The rescue team were lured there by something, the Doctor and Clara as well (the TARDIS taking them to where they were needed), to use them as a way to...I dunno, to create a ....viral video (bah-dum tsh)? Have a story compelling enough to keep people watching?

BuffyBot

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

That's a good question. Basically the narrator used a glitch/electric signal to change the sleep pattern in the brain and therefore implant the sleepy eye guck virus in anyone who watches the video. Turning them all into sandmen?

The rescue team were lured there by something, the Doctor and Clara as well (the TARDIS taking them to where they were needed), to use them as a way to...I dunno, to create a ....viral video (bah-dum tsh)? Have a story compelling enough to keep people watching?

Started strong (and I hate the found footage device) but it fell apart badly at the end.

Eugene Norman

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

That's a good question. Basically the narrator used a glitch/electric signal to change the sleep pattern in the brain and therefore implant the sleepy eye guck virus in anyone who watches the video. Turning them all into sandmen?

The rescue team were lured there by something, the Doctor and Clara as well (the TARDIS taking them to where they were needed), to use them as a way to...I dunno, to create a ....viral video (bah-dum tsh)? Have a story compelling enough to keep people watching?

But we can't be sure any of that happened.

Very odd episode.

Agent Coulson

The more this season goes on the more I really think it's time for Moffat to step down and for a new showrunner to step in.

flazio

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The more this season goes on the more I really think it's time for Moffat to step down and for a new showrunner to step in.

This episode was written by Mark Gatiss who many are tipping as Moffat's replacement.

Kev W

flazio wrote: »

This episode was written by Mark Gatiss who many are tipping as Moffat's replacement.

He's usually a terrific writer, I never would have recognised this as his writing though if I didn't know beforehand. That said, this episode is a blip, I'd still be happy to see him take over.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

My main reaction to that episode was..... what?

Glad to see I'm not the only one.

I was fairly sure it was a stand alone space episode until the end and then I thought I must have got that wrong, it's another 2 part episode. Apparently not!

I don't like space found footage either, it makes me feel ill and also there's nothing new or clever left to be done with it. I also found it ridiculous after about 3 space minutes of it and they were showing things clearly from space Clara's point of view so it was a bit annoying that it took so bloody long for the space Doctor to address that.

As for whether it really happened or not, I'm sure it did, in that the Doctor and the space crew were there. The explanation of what happened and how the space virus spread and all of that wasn't real. He was just trying to make a space tape that people would keep watching if they found it. Although, I don't see why he waited so long to put the signal in the space video? If he was thinking a rescue crew will come up and find the video why not just put it in right at the start? "Hello, I'm Mr. McGoo....zzzzzzzaaaaappppp.... and now you're all going to die."

I dunno. Assuming the Doctor really was there and sent the space station plummeting towards Neptune or whatever planet it was then the video is destroyed and never goes out to anyone? Unless he stuck it on the space internet before the Doctor arrived?

I don't even care.

The_Valeyard

This may be harsh,

But that may have been one of the worst episodes since the 9th Doctor.

Kev W

The_Valeyard wrote: »

This may be harsh,

But that may have been one of the worst episodes since the 9th Doctor.

Not harsh at all.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The_Valeyard wrote: »

This may be harsh,

But that may have been one of the worst episodes since the 9th Doctor.

I don't have a wealth of previous Doctor's to compare it with but I'd confidently say it was the worst of the Capaldi era. There were a fair few Smith episodes that made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I think part of the problem is that this episode feels very out of place with the rest of this series in both content and tone.
Bar the one tiny bit where the Doctor wasn't happy that Clara had named the monsters, which was kind of in keeping with his general worrying about her, this episode could have come at any point in any series with any Doctor and any companion.

malcy

Great episode. Nice to try something different. Was the right time for a standalone episode in a series full of two-parters. The Sandmen looked like proper old school Who monsters. My only niggle with the episode was the female from the rescue team with the ever changing accent. She went from Geordie, to Scouser, to almost Scottish at times. Found it a bit distracting.

Mark Gatiss is my top choice to take over as showrunner. A great writing talent and a fan of the show who i think gets it a bit more than Moffat does.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

malcy wrote: »

Mark Gatiss is my top choice to take over as showrunner. A great writing talent and a fan of the show who i think gets it a bit more than Moffat does.

I have no opinion on this matter but I think it's difficult to judge what a person may do to a show if given complete control over it based of one or two standalone episodes that have to fit in to someone else's vision of the show.

malcy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I have no opinion on this matter but I think it's difficult to judge what a person may do to a show if given complete control over it based of one or two standalone episodes that have to fit in to someone else's vision of the show.

Well Gatiss has written almost a full series worth of episodes now. He is more than capable. Look at Moffat though. 4 stories that were well recieved, then took over and it's been a mess ever since. He tries too hard, plaguerises his own work, writes himself into corners etc. Gatiss is a little more restrained in that regard.

I hope he comes up with the sequel to this episode for next series. Although he has also said he would love tp adapt his BF audio 'Invaders From Mars' which would be fairly brilliant.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

malcy wrote: »

Well Gatiss has written almost a full series worth of episodes now. He is more than capable. Look at Moffat though. 4 stories that were well recieved, then took over and it's been a mess ever since. He tries too hard, plaguerises his own work, writes himself into corners etc. Gatiss is a little more restrained in that regard.

I hope he comes up with the sequel to this episode for next series. Although he has also said he would love tp adapt his BF audio 'Invaders From Mars' which would be fairly brilliant.

Yeah, it works both ways. There are people who love the idea of Gatiss taking over, there are people who hate the idea. It's impossible to say what way things would go if he did take over. It's one thing to be able to write a strong episode every now and then, it's entirely another to have to wrangle a whole series of the show, especially when there's so many other writers involved.

I often wonder if one person was able to plan and write the entire series themselves how things would work out.

malcy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I often wonder if one person was able to plan and write the entire series themselves how things would work out.

They would need a lot of time to do it! I think that's Moffats biggest problem. The show doesnt get 100% of his attention as it should do. He has Sherlock to deal with as well and even he admits the workload is too much for him to deal with. RTD had 3 shows on the go at one stage, he shold ring him up for help!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

malcy wrote: »

They would need a lot of time to do it! I think that's Moffats biggest problem. The show doesnt get 100% of his attention as it should do. He has Sherlock to deal with as well and even he admits the workload is too much for him to deal with. RTD had 3 shows on the go at one stage, he shold ring him up for help!

There are often series on BBC that have the one writer, or a team of 2 at most. Granted they're usually only about 6 episodes long. But yes, it would require a person to give 100% of their time to the one project.

Look at next series though... this one finished filming ages ago and they've no idea when they next one will start filming so all in all they could have anything up to a year to write 9 or 10 scripts. That's doable.

dori_dormer

Ugh I'm so sick of them randomly appearing in a space ship with some secret evil and a few stupid red shirts.

They really need more imagination and scope. Previous series didn't focus this much on future humans, or human like races. They need more alien planets! I think Coleman really needs to go. I feel her and cap aldi have done all they can do. I find their Interactions boring and tedious, and never funny any more. I mean she's a good actress but I'll be so glad when she's dead

pixelburp

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I often wonder if one person was able to plan and write the entire series themselves how things would work out.

Just ask J. Michael Straczynski, I'm pretty sure he wrote an entire season of Babylon 5 back in the day.

I think the problem here in general terms is, and I hate to admit it, Dr Who as it exists right now has gone as far as it can. TV is a much different beast now, even wince 2005 when the show cane back , and knocking out what amounts to an anthology series year in year out just doest cut it anymore. The format's rusty and I don't believe the blame is solely Moffats, that a change in staff would yield results.

Look at the past and the same happened before, albeit for different reasons. At the end of Patrick Troughtons reign, the format was radically altered into a more rigid, earthbound series. A consistent cast, location etc., the show loved away from disconnected space shenanigans into (briefly) a paramilitary procedural thriller.

Dramas these days stress overarching stories, plots and character arcs, and while Who has dabbled with this, I get the feeling that the demand for weekly thrills for the kiddies means we get these half baked idea like Sleep No More, with generic bogeymen because that's what Dr Who is obligated to provide. A bit like Top Gear, latterly the BBCs other main export, Who has become something of a victim of its own success.

New ideas are needed for sure, but a rigid adherence to the anthology format's just not working anymore.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

dori_dormer wrote: »

Ugh I'm so sick of them randomly appearing in a space ship with some secret evil and a few stupid red shirts.

They really need more imagination and scope. Previous series didn't focus this much on future humans, or human like races. They need more alien planets!

I agree in part, but I think they need to focus on the fact that the Tardis can travel in time as well as space. There are loads of historical stories they could explore. Even when they do that now, the recent Vikings episode, it's hijacked by some rubbish aliens.

I know there was some sort of alien/monster in it but one of my favourite Doctor Who episodes, and one of the few Matt Smith ones I liked, was the Van Gogh episode. It explored some very basic human themes while still having time travel and monsters and all that jazz.

If I was calling the shots I'd say next year we go for two or three specials, 2 parts, slightly longer than the normal episodes, and have one ready for early summer, one for September-ish time and one to air over the Christmas season. More time to decide where the show is going, more time within the episodes to explore characters, themes etc. etc. and it allows them more time to transition between companions too.

malcy

I think a few historicals is the way to go going forward. I think the last one was Black Orchid in the 80's. There is plenty of peril to be had without there having to be an alien influence to move the story forward.

I personally want another run of full episodes next year, but if we have to make do with another specials year then so be it. Just make it a bit different and maybe bring in an old companion for them. Would be great to see Jamie or Ace travel for an episode or two. Only takes a minute to explain who they are to people who aren't familiar with them.

Just please, please, please make sure Xmas is the last appearence EVER of River Bloody Song......

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

malcy wrote: »

I think a few historicals is the way to go going forward. I think the last one was Black Orchid in the 80's. There is plenty of peril to be had without there having to be an alien influence to move the story forward.

I personally want another run of full episodes next year, but if we have to make do with another specials year then so be it. Just make it a bit different and maybe bring in an old companion for them. Would be great to see Jamie or Ace travel for an episode or two. Only takes a minute to explain who they are to people who aren't familiar with them.

Just please, please, please make sure Xmas is the last appearence EVER of River Bloody Song......

I assume River's presence in the Christmas episode is a bit like having the Lizard Lady and her pals in the Christmas one after Amy/Rory left. They need someone we know the Doctor has a relationship with to anchor the episode. They've overdone it with that particular gang in recent years, I think, so the next obvious one is River. That said.... a full Christmas special of The Doctor and Missy palling around would have worked for me

Busi_Girl08

malcy wrote: »

I think a few historicals is the way to go going forward. I think the last one was Black Orchid in the 80's. There is plenty of peril to be had without there having to be an alien influence to move the story forward.

The monster of the week arc is getting pretty tired alright. I think it would be refreshing to take it back to its historical/borderline educational roots. With the right writing it can be well done without being boring.

I personally want another run of full episodes next year, but if we have to make do with another specials year then so be it. Just make it a bit different and maybe bring in an old companion for them. Would be great to see Jamie or Ace travel for an episode or two. Only takes a minute to explain who they are to people who aren't familiar with them.

There have been a lot more references to the past lately. I think the powers that be are recognising the power of the nostalgia factor after the 50th anniversary. Bringing back another old face would be great.

It could be a matter of time before we see a regenerated Romana.

Just please, please, please make sure Xmas is the last appearence EVER of River Bloody Song......

I wonder she going to be "Ghost of Christmas/TARDIS Past" style in this.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I never warmed to River, although, in case it's not clear yet, I've only seen Matt Smith as the Doctor before Capaldi. However! Alex Kingston is a good actress, I've seen her give good performances before in lots of things, so a little bit of me is kind of hoping that simply working next to Capaldi will improve the character a little bit.

malcy

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

The monster of the week arc is getting pretty tired alright. I think it would be refreshing to take it back to its historical/borderline educational roots. With the right writing it can be well done without being boring.




There have been a lot more references to the past lately. I think the powers that be are recognising the power of the nostalgia factor after the 50th anniversary. Bringing back another old face would be great.

It could be a matter of time before we see a regenerated Romana.

I wonder she going to be "Ghost of Christmas/TARDIS Past" style in this.

Exactly. Some of my favourite stories are the early historicals. A return for Romana would be welcome. Especially with Gallifrey looming on the horizon again. The biggest mis-step for me has been the introduction of Missy, just awful. Hopefully the Timelords force regenerate her into a man again if they get their hands on her.

As for River, it doesn't matter who writes for her. She's been too smug and irritating for too long to redeem herself!!

dori_dormer

I also think part of what I liked about Matt smith was he had a small group of great people, who could dip in and out at interesting times, and he could play off their dynamic to mix it up a bit. Also there was the overall large arc of the silence. You never knew if a simple filler episode would have somethign suddenly relate to it.

Capaldi has no one but Clara which I think they are weighing too heavily on. He needs other interesting people to develop his character. Also I don't think he has any purpose either. HIs travels aren't currently driven by any reason which is why I feel we are gettign these random episodes. There is no greater goal. I don't feel any investment in watching Sadly

Eugene Norman

This thread has gone over the top with criticism of this series. It's good. The absence of an obvious arc is no harm. That said I agree there could be more historical stories preferably without aliens.

This was a weak episode. Watching it back though I kinda get the idea – we seem to be watching a monster of the week but the video itself is the thing to spread the sleep, with the embedded signals. We are watching not The Ring/Ringu but the video in those movies(no credit sequence which should have been a hint).

The execution was bad though. Amateur dramatics in a tumble drier as somebody called it on Den of Geek.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Eugene Norman wrote: »

This thread has gone over the top with criticism of this series. It's good. The absence of an obvious arc is no harm. That said I agree there could be more historical stories preferably without aliens.

This was a weak episode. Watching it back though I kinda get the idea – we seem to be watching a monster of the week but the video itself is the thing to spread the sleep, with the embedded signals. We are watching not The Ring/Ringu but the video in those movies(no credit sequence which should have been a hint).

The execution was bad though. Amateur dramatics in a tumble drier as somebody called it on Den of Geek.

Well said.

Personally I've loved this series. I love the 2 part episodes. I love Capaldi/Coleman. I love the darker tone it takes at times.

This one individual episode was weak, and while it's a shame it's in no way reflective of the rest of the series.

pixelburp

Eugene Norman wrote: »

This thread has gone over the top with criticism of this series. It's good. The absence of an obvious arc is no harm. That said I agree there could be more historical stories preferably without aliens.

I'be been enjoying this series by and large, I don't think the criticism is too ott; this is the first episode I've genuinely disliked, but Dr Who has got a little stale: it's only natural 9 seasons in that some things feel a little ragged here and there. This episode only highlighted by dint of how rote, uninspired it all felt. The viking episode was generic as hell, but it felt fun and everyone was having a good time. This felt like filler really imo. Though I'd agree that calling this as bad as Love and Monsters is a bit ludicrous all right

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

pixelburp wrote: »

I'be been enjoying this series by and large, I don't think the criticism is too ott; this is the first episode I've genuinely disliked, but Dr Who has got a little stale: it's only natural 9 seasons in that some things feel a little ragged here and there. This episode only highlighted by dint of how rote, uninspired it all felt. The viking episode was generic as hell, but it felt fun and everyone was having a good time. This felt like filler really imo

It really did. I mentioned it earlier but it felt like something that could have been in any previous series with any previous Doctor and companion. There was nothing to link it to anything that's come before. I wouldn't surprise me if Gatiss had handed in that script years ago and they hadn't been able to fit it into any of the other series. Even the fact it's "found footage" suggests that as a possibility.

ixoy

Thought it was grand, although probably would have worked better as 20 minutes. The science almost made the moon-as-egg seem plausible.

As to the calls for historical? Not going to happen I reckon. I don't think there's been a full-on historical since the Troughton era with the exception of 'Black Orchid'. The producers thought the kids viewing would be bored by it and ruled it out and I don't think this generation of producers are thinking any different. It's a shame as I'd really like it but then I'm in my 30s and they're trying to target people less than half my age...

Doctor DooM

Thought it was a good idea executed badly. I quite like the idea of "the bad guys win anyway" once the Doctor walks away. I'm not sure if it was the script or the editing but nothing really felt very impactful to any of it.

The whole "the sleep in your eyes is a monster" thing was suspension of disbelief bursting for me, personally, but usually I can't blame sci fi when that happens as it's a personal thing (for example in Aliens when I watch it now, the scene where they're checking a super high tech map machine- which has a physical map in it instead of a tablet or computer or hologram- usually pulls me out instead of, you know, giant rubber aliens ), but I THINK they were trying to say that's wrong and that the signal to your brain triggers a transformation into one of those sandmen thingies.

Very meh, first episode I've really been watching the clock in this year. Still miles better than some of the Tennant crappy episodes I see people defending though

Mr Bloat

I missed out on Doctor Who last weekend and watched The Zygon Inversion back to back with this episode last night and one thing that stood out for me was that there were references to 5 minutes equalling 1 month in both episodes. At the end of The Zygon Inversion, Clara said that the Doctor thought she had been dead for 5 minutes and he said that was the longest month of his life. In Sleep No More, 5 minutes in a Morpheus machine equalled a month of sleep and Clara was pulled into one of these machine. I wonder if there is some link between all of these?