Newbie looking to get advice on a Leaf

Fastpud

Hi All,

Just about to book a Nissan Leaf SV for Jan 2016 and was hoping for some advice or pointers. Generally daily car usage is for school runs and running around Dublin so expect 50-60km per day usage. Once a month there the is a trip down the country so access to FC is necessary (Boo to ESB on the monthly subscription €16.99 plan!)

I am looking to get the Cold Pack, 30KW battery, parking sensors.

The 30KW battery is to ease the range anxiety and Nissan are doing it for €2000 for 2016 models at the moment so seems a no brainer. I should be able to get to Cork with just one top up or am I being overly optimistic?

Are there other options that are a must?

Will there be any issues or costs I need to factor in?

Will I regret it? Any getting it on PCP so will be stuck for 3 years if I hate it. (Have taken it for a test drive and liked the car - just worried that the inconvience of the range and charging will be a problem some day. Switching from a Ford Focus 1.6 Auto so performance will be fine.

Plan to switch to night rate so expect charge costs to be approx €1-2 per night as the battery will only need topping up. Is this correct?


Thanks in Advance,
Fastpud

Fastpud

Fastpud wrote: »

Hi All,

Just about to book a Nissan Leaf SV for Jan 2016 and was hoping for some advice or pointers. Generally daily car usage is for school runs and running around Dublin so expect 50-60km per day usage. Once a month there the is a trip down the country so access to FC is necessary (Boo to ESB on the monthly subscription €16.99 plan!)

I am looking to get the Cold Pack, 30KW battery, parking sensors.

The 30KW battery is to ease the range anxiety and Nissan are doing it for €2000 for 2016 models at the moment so seems a no brainer. I should be able to get to Cork with just one top up or am I being overly optimistic?

Are there other options that are a must?

Will there be any issues or costs I need to factor in?

Will I regret it? Any getting it on PCP so will be stuck for 3 years if I hate it. (Have taken it for a test drive and liked the car - just worried that the inconvience of the range and charging will be a problem some day. Switching from a Ford Focus 1.6 Auto so performance will be fine.

Plan to switch to night rate so expect charge costs to be approx €1-2 per night as the battery will only need topping up. Is this correct?


Thanks in Advance,
Fastpud

Regarding the ESB chargers, if it's the case they do charge 17 Euro's PM then sign up when you need to use it. But looks like you will need it every month. I expect this charge to be eliminated. Fingers crossed but most of your charging will be done at home saving a lot more than your Focus i guarantee you , you won't regret getting the Leaf.

You have most of the essential options however the 6.6 kw charger on the 30 kwh battery is highly advisable, charging in half the time from normal non street charge points is very convenient.

The ESB won;t install a 6.6 kw or 32 amp home EVSE but you can upgrade yourself and sell the old evse or insist you want the 32 amp one at home. It will make all the difference believe me.

Charging in 5 hrs compared to 10 is just simply a no briner.

The 30 kwh charges faster from the fast charger also, same time gets more range.

stesaurus

Fastpud wrote: »

Hi All,

Just about to book a Nissan Leaf SV for Jan 2016 and was hoping for some advice or pointers. Generally daily car usage is for school runs and running around Dublin so expect 50-60km per day usage. Once a month there the is a trip down the country so access to FC is necessary (Boo to ESB on the monthly subscription €16.99 plan!)

I am looking to get the Cold Pack, 30KW battery, parking sensors.

The 30KW battery is to ease the range anxiety and Nissan are doing it for €2000 for 2016 models at the moment so seems a no brainer. I should be able to get to Cork with just one top up or am I being overly optimistic?

Are there other options that are a must?

Will there be any issues or costs I need to factor in?

Will I regret it? Any getting it on PCP so will be stuck for 3 years if I hate it. (Have taken it for a test drive and liked the car - just worried that the inconvience of the range and charging will be a problem some day. Switching from a Ford Focus 1.6 Auto so performance will be fine.

Plan to switch to night rate so expect charge costs to be approx €1-2 per night as the battery will only need topping up. Is this correct?


Thanks in Advance,
Fastpud

You'll love it

Fastpud

Thanks for the quick response.

"Plan to switch to night rate so expect charge costs to be approx €1-2 per night as the battery will only need topping up. Is this correct?"

Just to clarify is this assumption above correct?

Fastpud

Fastpud wrote: »

Thanks for the quick response.

"Plan to switch to night rate so expect charge costs to be approx €1-2 per night as the battery will only need topping up. Is this correct?"

Just to clarify is this assumption above correct?

For the 30 Kwh there'll probably be 27 kwh usable so at my night rate @0.85 C/Kwh would cost € 2.25.

Because you'll drive 60 Kms max a day you will use about 11-12 Kwh maybe a bit less so that would be just 1 Euro with the night meter.

20,000 Kms a year works out about 300 euro's a year based on my night rate, haggle a bit and they should give you a reduction.

The current 24 Kwh battery charges in about 30 mins from 18-90% in about 30 mins in milder weather, the 30 Kwh charges in 33 Mins 9-90% and you get more range ! Brilliant, more range for the same time on the fast charger.

Should give you an extra 100-110 Kms V 80-90 Kms on the 24 Kwh Leaf.

Fastpud

" Should give you an extra 100-110 Kms V 80-90 Kms on the 24 Kwh Leaf. "

Are you saying I will only get 100kms on the 30kw battery?
I was expecting 160kms approx from full.

steelboots

I think Mad_Lad is referring to miles and not Kms. I had a loan of an SV 24kw the weekend and got 88 miles out of a charge, which wasn't bad as half that was done on a dark, wet cold night with the heater going some of the time. I'm sure as we get used to driving the Leaf we will be able to squeeze more out of it.

Note, the 88 miles was 100% down to ---% (i.e. I was so low it wouldn't tell me how low).

I'm going for the SVE with the 6.6K charger, I picked the extra toys (i.e. leather seats and bose sound system) over the range. My thinking was I'm doing 54 miles per day round trip so it would be very rare I would need the extended range and would tale the wifes car if going further a field and I have access to a charger in work) so I would get more use out of leather seats (with kids) and enjoy the bose sound system (and believe me its good). I'm going PCP so will give back when the 60kw comes out if the price is right etc..

I believe getting the cold pack (i.e. Heated seats and steering wheel) is well worth the extra €300 and gives you further range by using this over the heater.

Best of luck.
Steelboots

Fastpud

OK that's makes sense and matches the expected range!

Would love the SVE but as I feel the extra range would be better for the longer runs as this will be the only car in the house and can't stretch to both the SVE and the 30kw battery.

Fastpud

Fastpud wrote: »

" Should give you an extra 100-110 Kms V 80-90 Kms on the 24 Kwh Leaf. "

Are you saying I will only get 100kms on the 30kw battery?
I was expecting 160kms approx from full.

You're right, I'm miscalculating, 9-90% so if it has a normal range of 140-170 Kms for the 30 Kwh that would be 126 Kms subtracting 10% from 140 kms or 153 kms subtracting 10% from 170 Kms.

Think I was calculating based on 80%.

Too many 12 hr shifts. 3 days done 3 nights to go 72 hrs ! :eek:

Mourinho

Sorry to jump in but just curious with you electric car owners.

How far can your car get on a charge? Does it cost a bomb on ESB to be charging every day, would a battery need replacing often, etc?

Mourinho

Mourinho wrote: »

Sorry to jump in but just curious with you electric car owners.

How far can your car get on a charge? Does it cost a bomb on ESB to be charging every day, would a battery need replacing often, etc?

There are two battery options now, the standard 24 Kwh range 110-140 Kms Winter Summer, 140 Kms being about max Summer range 60-80 Kph maybe some faster stints.

The 30 Kwh battery currently costing 2 K more until end of December I think, then 3 K after.

The 30 Kwh was tested by the EPA of having a 107 mile range or around 172 Kms but this will be anywhere from 140-180 Kms winter /Summer.

The 30 Kwh battery charges faster and can get from 7-90 % in about 33 mins compared to 18-80% in 30 mins for the 24 Kwh battery.

The 30 Kwh in theory should last longer because it's a little bigger it won't be cycled so much.

A July built 2013 Leaf in the U.K clocked up 102,000 Miles and lost about 10% capacity and is still perfectly usable, he had about 1,700 fast charges and something like 5000 normal charges if I remember correctly.

My 151 January leaf has 24,000 kms and showing no loss of capacity though it that varies depending on usage.

The 2011-131 (up to July 2013) leaf had some change to the battery and it's far more reliable I can't see the 2014+ Leaf battery requiring replacing for many years.

The idea is to top up when you can rather than run the battery very low all the time.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Hi guys,

Ignorant question, but how does traffic affect the battery? My longest journey would be about 100KMs once a month, but the 1st few km of this journey would be moving very slowly in heavy traffic, maybe 20 mins of traffic.

Padraig Mor

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Hi guys,

Ignorant question, but how does traffic affect the battery? My longest journey would be about 100KMs once a month, but the 1st few km of this journey would be moving very slowly in heavy traffic, maybe 20 mins of traffic.

The opposite of an ICE - sitting in traffic uses feck all battery!

SteelyDanJalapeno

Padraig Mor wrote: »

The opposite of an ICE - sitting in traffic uses feck all battery!

Excellent, thanks

Villain

Fastpud wrote: »

Hi All,

Just about to book a Nissan Leaf SV for Jan 2016 and was hoping for some advice or pointers. Generally daily car usage is for school runs and running around Dublin so expect 50-60km per day usage. Once a month there the is a trip down the country so access to FC is necessary (Boo to ESB on the monthly subscription €16.99 plan!)

I am looking to get the Cold Pack, 30KW battery, parking sensors.

The 30KW battery is to ease the range anxiety and Nissan are doing it for €2000 for 2016 models at the moment so seems a no brainer. I should be able to get to Cork with just one top up or am I being overly optimistic?

Are there other options that are a must?

Will there be any issues or costs I need to factor in?

Will I regret it? Any getting it on PCP so will be stuck for 3 years if I hate it. (Have taken it for a test drive and liked the car - just worried that the inconvience of the range and charging will be a problem some day. Switching from a Ford Focus 1.6 Auto so performance will be fine.

Plan to switch to night rate so expect charge costs to be approx €1-2 per night as the battery will only need topping up. Is this correct?


Thanks in Advance,
Fastpud

Check that Nissan are going to connect you to the new Nissan Connect EV system rather than the awful carwings system, the ability to pre-heat the car from the mains via an app is an excellent feature but sadly Nissan has failed horribly to build a stable platform.

Regarding the general EV buying advice? I bought a SVE leaf just over a year ago I love the car with the exception of carwings, the ESB plans are crazy but hopefully they will see sense and the Government will step up to the plate.

PCP is how I financed my leaf and it has pros and cons, the re-sale value is rather poor at present, I had hoped by the time my PCP was ending the values might have picked up and equity would be decent but not so sure that is the case.

Having spoken with some people who imported their Leaf from the UK, I think that is a good option to get value if you can finance it.

stesaurus

Mourinho wrote: »

Sorry to jump in but just curious with you electric car owners.

How far can your car get on a charge? Does it cost a bomb on ESB to be charging every day, would a battery need replacing often, etc?

You need a slightly different mindset. You have in effect a 'petrol station' at home and leave your home each morning with a full tank.
So if your normal commute is within its range then perfect. Any longer and you may need to use the ESB infrastructure.
Charging is cheap as chips at home. Very roughly you'd use about 1.5-1.7kw of power for 10km of range. So work out your likely commute and look at your Electricity price. Switching to night rate suits a lot of people too.

The eCars pricing has been leaked that will apply from April. Frankly it's ridiculous and way overpriced for a incredibly unreliable service.

Batteries are holding up for the older leafs only losing a few % of capacity after a few years. Difficult to say though in long term, jot enough info but looking fine. Maybe similar to general HP loss over the life of an ice.
The good thing is everything else is pretty much guaranteed to last. Very little maintenance and things that go wrong. You'd be able to drop in an upgraded battery pack after say 10 years and pretty much have a new car again with more range.

I absolutely love my car. I've always been a bit of a petrol head and a techie so it's a perfect mesh for me. I wouldn't recommend an EV at present though. The eCars charging is too up in the air so maybe wait until the dust settles on that first.

Regarding carwings,

I use the Leaf Manager App on Android and connect to the Japanese servers and it's far more reliable and the App is better.

When I can't connect on the car wings app the leaf manager app connected to the Japanese servers usually works.

Preheating command is usually received by the car in about 5 mins.

And in leaf Manager the preheating timer is the time the heat actually comes on not the departure time like you would set from the leaf itself.

Leaf manager can also set a charge start timer too, but I would only ever trust the setting in the car itself for a charge timer !

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

Regarding carwings,

I use the Leaf Manager App on Android and connect to the Japanese servers and it's far more reliable and the App is better.

When I can't connect on the car wings app the leaf manager app connected to the Japanese servers usually works.

Preheating command is usually received by the car in about 5 mins.

And in leaf Manager the preheating timer is the time the heat actually comes on not the departure time like you would set from the leaf itself.

Leaf manager can also set a charge start timer too, but I would only ever trust the setting in the car itself for a charge timer !

Leaf manager does work a lot more than carwings alright but isn't laughable that a third party app is more reliable that Nissan's own app!

Anyway Brian from Nissan said that new users should get Nissan Connect EV

Villain

Villain wrote: »

Leaf manager does work a lot more than carwings alright but isn't laughable that a third party app is more reliable that Nissan's own app!

Anyway Brian from Nissan said that new users should get Nissan Connect EV

I thought everyone was moving to Nissan Connect ?

I wonder will it be more reliable ?

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought everyone was moving to Nissan Connect ?

I wonder will it be more reliable ?

Everyone will slowly but new users from Jan should have it first, it can't be any more unreliable!

invara

I bought a 2011 one this summer and that might be another way to go. It cost about 12k incl installing charger at home. Most days I do 50km, with the odd 70-80 km day. At that price I am less concerned about it being a huge mistake, and can get out of it at any time. The early cars were fully loaded, but had a tighter range. It has lost one bar of the 12 on the lifetime battery gauge, but it works for me. I expect to keep it for 5-6 years, not bother with the ESB public charging stuff, and so it should cost about 2k per annum which would have been 4-5k in an ICE.

Have yet to make carwings work for me, and with the colder days it would be nice to pre-heat.

I was advised not to bother with a nighttime meter, as you can get caught for under-use. In practice topping up takes about 4 hours, because you never arrive home on empty.

Villain

invara wrote: »

I was advised not to bother with a nighttime meter, as you can get caught for under-use. In practice topping up takes about 4 hours, because you never arrive home on empty.

Buy something like http://efergy.com/eu/ monitor your usage and if you use more than 30% at night then switch, I now use over 40% at night by using timers on dish washers washing machines etc and obviously charging too. Can mean good savings

steelboots

According to my analysis regarding night saver I calculated the following, based on my house (2 adults + 4 kids) using 5890kw per year, based on Airtrictys standard rates use 28% of elec @ Night to make worth while without leaf.

I reckon I could burn 27% of my elec at night (i.e. Washer, Dryer, Dishwasher, Elec Shower) and the certin items run all the time (e.g. Fridge). Bare in mind the night rates is from 11pm to 8am in Winter and 12pm-9am in the summer so you might be able to squeeze the shower in night saver rate Mon-Fri.... (not including the Leaf)

Long and short of it is if you have delay times on the big elec burners then Night saver is the way to go.

FYI, I have new devices and monitored the elec usage per load as follows:
9Kg washing machine on eco mode (50deg c) and it used 1.16kw.
8kg vented close dryer 1.5kw
Dishwasher daily cycle 1.1Kw.

The med fridge/freezer, american size, average of 70w per hour.

A typical shower is 8-9kw/hour so a 10 min shower 1.34kw

pwurple

Hi OP, the new battery range is great, should suit you fine. I find performance much better than my previous car, EV's are very nippy!

Cold pack and extra big battery I would go for also.

I've done Cork - Dublin twice on the 24kw battery, so you will get further. Took me two charges, but the fast chargers are at handy locations for stopping with children. Plug in, pop to loo or get snack with kids, back in car and off again.


On the night saver, I switched provider as well as adding the meter. Since getting the new meters (and the car) our electricity bill has come down about 10%, rather than increasing because we got an electric car. We also get our showers in the morning on the night rate. So, the net effect is that the 'fuel' is free.

Your tax will come down, insurance... mine came down, but it's a bit more legwork. Most insurance companies don't list EV's on the websites, so you have to phone them to get quotes.

Maintenance cost is way down. No engine wear (no engine!), brake-pads don't wear as fast if you use the regen-charging. 99 euro for a service is the going rate at the moment.

I'd buy it again no question.

invara

invara wrote: »

It has lost one bar of the 12 on the lifetime battery gauge, but it works for me. I expect to keep it for 5-6 years, not bother with the ESB public charging stuff, and so it should cost about 2k per annum which would have been 4-5k in an ICE.

How many Kms are on it ? can you run leaf spy and take a screen shot of the battery report ? was it a U.K import ?

Maybe you can sell it for a 2014 when the price is right, the battery is far better.

invara wrote: »

Have yet to make carwings work for me, and with the colder days it would be nice to pre-heat.

The U.K Carwings helpline is brilliant, they helped me out me a few times.

The Car has to be de-registered from the previous owner, also get them to verify the mileage on it, the Leaf records every Km driven and sends it to Japan along with battery statistics, charging statistics etc,

invara wrote: »

I was advised not to bother with a nighttime meter, as you can get caught for under-use. In practice topping up takes about 4 hours, because you never arrive home on empty.

If you got an EV you certainly don't have to worry about low usage so night meter is good, Bord gais charge me 8.5 C/Kwh night and 17 C/Kwh Day which is less than what I paid on day rate before.

I'm on the plan that you pay a set rate per month and it goes up or down depending on usage so I get a cheaper rate, I will be re-negotiating in January !

Fastpud

Hey Thanks for all of the replies. Loads of useful info there.

I have couple of more questions on range & charging

1. Do you only get to 80% on the fast chargers? So following a FC my 170Kms range is now 170*.8=136Kms
2. Can you get to Cork from west Dublin eg Clondalkin in one FC charge eg charging at Urlingford(with out needing Valium)
3. How slow is the "Granny Charging Cable" and how much is it to buy.
4. Motorway driving at 100kms, what range should I expect from a full change?

Again thanks.

DrPhilG

Villain wrote: »

I now use over 40% at night by using timers on dish washers washing machines etc and obviously charging too. Can mean good savings

Since I changed to the night meter I have used 604 day units and 700 night.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The U.K Carwings helpline is brilliant, they helped me out me a few times.

I found them utterly useless. Told I would get a call back, which never came. Called again a month later and got the same treatment.

DrPhilG

Fastpud wrote: »

Hey Thanks for all of the replies. Loads of useful info there.

I have couple of more questions on range & charging

1. Do you only get to 80% on the fast chargers? So following a FC my 170Kms range is now 170*.8=136Kms
2. Can you get to Cork from west Dublin eg Clondalkin in one FC charge eg charging at Urlingford(with out needing Valium)
3. How slow is the "Granny Charging Cable" and how much is it to buy.
4. Motorway driving at 100kms, what range should I expect from a full change?

Again thanks.

You can charge as high as you want at a FCP. But once you get over 80% the speed of the charge nosedives.

If you have the time to wait you can still keep going, but bear in mind that others may need to use it and wouldn't appreciate someone clinging on past 80%. In the time it takes you to add that last 20%, someone else could add 70%+.


Granny charging is the slowest form of charging by a long way. A full charge from near empty would take maybe 10 hours if I remember correctly.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

I found them utterly useless. Told I would get a call back, which never came. Called again a month later and got the same treatment.

I had completely the opposite experience !

Fastpud

Fastpud wrote: »

Hey Thanks for all of the replies. Loads of useful info there.

I have couple of more questions on range & charging

1. Do you only get to 80% on the fast chargers? So following a FC my 170Kms range is now 170*.8=136Kms
2. Can you get to Cork from west Dublin eg Clondalkin in one FC charge eg charging at Urlingford(with out needing Valium)
3. How slow is the "Granny Charging Cable" and how much is it to buy.
4. Motorway driving at 100kms, what range should I expect from a full change?

Again thanks.

The 30 Kwh was tested getting from 7% to 90% in 33 mins compared to 18% - 80% in the 24 kwh leaf.

So 80-90% on the 30 Kwh might not be that slow with the 30 kwh it's certainly a good improvement.

Lets say the leaf 30 kwh has a good safe range of 140-160 Kms at 100 Kph subtract 10% that would be "around" 140-150 Kms in 33 mins.

24 Kwh Leaf 80% of say 110 Kms (110 kms on a full charge) Comfortably at 100 Kph -20 % (because above 80% is slow) = 88 kms ! not a bad improvement at all !!

Exact figures will depend on lots of things such as temperature, surface water and head winds and speed. Those are good safe figures.

I always use the normal street charge points when I can because it means not having to find a fast charger and waiting to charge.

Again 6.6 kwh charger is essential with the 30 Kwh battery even though the 3.3 kw will work most of the time because you won't be charging from 0% daily it will still be really convenient to have it when you need it, get the 32 amp home EVSE for even more convenience, you want to go somewhere you can top up in half the time, no brainer f you ask me !