MORE crap on the way.

JPNelsforearm

Finian McGrath........ What more can you say.... this guy has a seat at the table.. Proven number of fatalities every year and negative health impact clearly makes no impression...







Firearms bad, cigarettes and second hand smoke good.

Cass

This is not news, or not NEW news.

We mentioned it one, two, three, well a good few times in the last couple of years, at the same time we said how this man lauds the Cuban method of government.

Considering he needed 14 counts, and still only won his seat by a tiny, TINY margin how are people surprised at how he acts. Given his actions on the review committee did you think he change. Look how quick he folded to grab any semblance of power. Same with the rest of them, including the "beloved" Shane Ross. Man of the people my arse.

I realise only a small amount of people would vote for them based on their firearm policies, but with the likes of McGrath how can any person in their right mind think he was a good choice. Now he has folded, payed his water bill, been placed as junior minister, and wants to overturn a smoking ban.

Everyone give yourselves a big pat on the back. a real own goal.

/rant over. :mad:

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

This is not news, or not NEW news.

We mentioned it one, two, three, well a good few times in the last couple of years, at the same time we said how this man lauds the Cuban method of government.

Considering he needed 14 counts, and still only won his seat by a tiny, TINY margin how are people surprised at how he acts. Given his actions on the review committee did you think he change. Look how quick he folded to grab any semblance of power. Same with the rest of them, including the "beloved" Shane Ross. Man of the people my arse.

I realise only a small amount of people would vote for them based on their firearm policies, but with the likes of McGrath how can any person in their right mind think he was a good choice. Now he has folded, payed his water bill, been placed as junior minister, and wants to overturn a smoking ban.

Everyone give yourselves a big pat on the back. a real own goal.

/rant over. :mad:

On a positive note, when this government falls in the next year or even less, there is little chance that "Our Finian" will be re-elected.

Cass

"Falls".

Do you think this will resolve itself.? Do you think the people will actually do anything? Not a chance.

Ministers here have held onto power regardless of the circumstances. Hell even past ministers that have been charged, bankrupt, etc and current ones under investigation for fraud, etc. still hold onto their seats. This should be painfully obvious by just looking at the abomination we have now. FF so hungry to get back into Government they got into bed with FG. Same with the independents. Yet they'll all claim it's in the country's interests.

They only thing that will happen is in just over two years there will be a "reshuffle" so new TDs can get a go at being Minister and once you have the two years served you're entitled to a bigger Ministerial pension. And right from when you retire, NOT at retirement age like the rest of us.

Sparks

BattleCorp wrote: »

On a positive note, when this government falls in the next year or even less, there is little chance that "Our Finian" will be re-elected.

That gives him a year to do damage before going home to claim his ministerial pension.

BattleCorp

Sparks wrote: »

That gives him a year to do damage before going home to claim his ministerial pension.

He needs two years as a minister to get the pension. Not a chance this government will last that long. There will be another election before then.

Unfortunately you are right about the damage part.

Nekarsulm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Finian McGrath........ What more can you say.... this guy has a seat at the table.. Proven number of fatalities every year and negative health






Firearms bad, cigarettes and second hand smoke good.

Seat at the table, true. But "Super Junior" minister's have no voting rights at the table.
Thats not to say he can't be a pain in the rear, but bar making noise, he is fairly powerless.

Sparks

Nekarsulm wrote: »

bar making noise, he is fairly powerless.

We can hope; bu Jim Deasy was in Opposition and could only make noise in 2008. It was enough to get pistols almost banned completely.
Noise in a pre-election season (which might well be this government's entire tenure) is not trivial, because every backbencher and government minister is looking for a nice PR coup and "ban guns m'kay" is a perennial favourite.

Grizzly 45

There is alot to be said for term limits for these rascals in the Dail. Three terms of office.Thats 15 years,if you arent promoted or doing your job in the real world out here,you are really doing somthing wrong or are definately not holding the zero.
It would ensure alot of the dead wood and money boys would be turfed out,rather than having a bunch of jobs for lifers sitting here doing nothing.

Grizzly 45

Intresting article.
https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/law/EU-gun-ban-France-hunting-research/

Grizzly 45

http://firearms-united.com/2016/05/16/firearms-uniteds-answer-iure-subsidarity/

Never heard of the red or yellow card on EU legislation.BTW THIS is one place that we can have a say .Brian Crowley MEP is on this comittee ,and it mighr behove us to shoot him a polite email on this topic?

Grizzly 45

"I am not paid to tell the truth.Im simply PAID!"

Cone on DOWN !!MR Pierre Delsaux!!!

, Deputy Director General DG GROW said:
1.000 people killed with legal weapons per year
We know that 70-97% were illegal by national data
T
errorists used legal weapons.
Deactivated weapons and blank firing weapons became ILLEGAL when they were reconverted.

Cannot understand that sports shooters use AK-47’s.
They do: In military Rifle competitions, for example.

Tried to explain that the ban of B7 would not tackle hunters and marksmen - as these own only B4 rifles
We know that several 100.000 B7 rifles are in legal hand

Believes that 3 rounds means 31 bullets
3 rounds = 3 bullets

Summary: if somebody knows nothing about guns and gun crime this one should not present a gun law!

Question 1: This propsal has been invented by Fabio Marini and Cecilia Malmström in 2013 of DG Home.
So why did DG Home present this paper?

Question 2: DG Grow has a nice evaluation which DOES NOT recommends to ban B7 rifles and internet sales. There is NOT ANY study or evaluation or debate in the public EC papers which support such drastic restrictions.
So why are these rules in the proposal?

Grizzly 45

According to the Finnish Commissioner Elżbieta Bieńkowska talked about 100.000 killings with legally-held firearms. And nobody corrected her!

Between 2000 and 2012 almost 3 million people lost their lives by external causes in Europe (see chapter 2). Less than 2,4% were firearms-related suicides (see chapter 5). Less than 0,5% (12.076) were firearms-related homicides (see chapter 7). Both rates decreased by more than 30% in the last decade.

There is no evidence of 1000 annual homicides committed with legally held firearms.

For those who are intrested and might care to forward to mr Brian Crowley mEP as he is on this comittee.
http://firearms-united.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Report-Homicide-Suicide.pdf

Cass

That is the same stats that were offered up when the French MEP said that 10,000 deaths had occurred during the same 10 year period. When questioned about the number he said he did not have the source of the statistics to hand. When Firearms United applied to the Council to verify the numbers they said they had no such numbers.

IOW He made it up and was let say that nonsense.

As for Brian Crowley. He comes second after Ming Flanagan for the worse voting record among Irish MEPs with a figure of some 25% or so. Ming had 14% IIRC. Now those figures are form a 2014/2015 census, but you get the point. What good is lobbying our representatives when they only show up for every 4th or 5th vote.

Grizzly 45

If you are going to lie at least make it somewhat beliveable or plausabile
So a 100,000 deaths per annum in the EU by guns?? Thats about ten times more PA than "gun mad " America has in five years ! Going by such factual anti gun organisations like Handgun control.org or Moms demand action,etc
And nowhere in the EU can any Tom ,Dick or Sally rock up to a gun shop and purchase a firearm over the counter without a significant paper trail and liscensing in some shape or form.

Which leaves two options..
[1] These are figures sucked out of the air with no fact or fiction in reality.
[2] Gun control EU style is actually worse than the US liberal constitutional right model.:D

Grizzly 45

http://firearms-united.com/category/news-and-press/

Grizzly 45

Good power point presentation of the entire EU legislative procedure and where we are now exactly.

http://firearms-united.com/2016/05/29/legislative-procedure/

For those of you who still think this soesnt concern you .Read these points on what the EU comission and EU comittee wants to ban as well.

BAN on RIFLES capable of firing more than 11 rounds with out reloading.
Ban on HANDGUNS capable of firing more than 21 shots without reloading.

Operative word here is CAPABLE,and I dont need to remind a bunch of .22 pistol owners here about how much fun in the courts we had with this with the AGS deciding that any .22 pistol might be CAPABLE of taking ten round mags.
A sneaky way of getting round the semi auto problem and getting ALL rifles and handguns as well!:mad:

We are now dealing with dangerous idiots on a European level,and remember any firearm with a detchable magazine is CAPABLE of holding a higher capacity mag if there is one available and there is an inclination for misuse.

You now have,if you needed it,a viable clear and present danger on your radar as to the EU attempt to get your bolt action rifle or handgun too. Are you still going to do nothing??Email and bother every MEP that is on our side,and not on our side European wide.You have the perfect machine to do it with if you are reading this.:)

Grizzly 45

Trouble with your liscenses ?go to court.Where shooters win most of the time
Not competeting actively enough liscense denied!
"Idontlikedelookodatnow" and makey up laws.
Anti gun statements in the media and press with no comeback for shooters.

Co incidence?? In a country that Ireland wants to emulate and Irish politicans kiss its ass at every available opportunity.



http://firearms-united.com/2016/05/31/something-rotten-kingdom-sweden-spreading-part-1/

BattleCorp

Dear Sir,

I want to give you an update on the current situation regarding the Firearms Directive.

Members of the European Parliament have now tabled amendments on the Commission’s proposal. These have come from many members from many different committees, but have been tabled through the Internal Market Committee. There are over 800 in total.

I am now in the process of negotiating compromise amendments with the leading MEPs that have been nominated to represent each of the eight political groups. Having taken a first read through of the amendments, it appears that there is a very significant number of MEPs who take a similar view to myself, i.e. maintain the status quo unless there is good reason to change it. There appears to be strong support for removing the loophole regarding firearms that had been converted into blankfirers and for some requirements on safe storage. There are many different suggestions for how to deal with category A and category B firearms and many MEPs agree that it is not appropriate to make the designation based on cosmetic appearance.

However this is not a unanimous view and we will not have a full clarity until after the committee vote has taken place. This is currently intended to take place at the end of June.

Yours sincerely,

Vicky Ford MEP

Over 800 amendments. :eek: How the fcuk do they get anything done over there in that parliament.

Sparks

800 seems low to be honest. I remember us nearly hitting the hundred mark off the Ranges SI here and that's one country, and one piece of (highly technical) secondary legislation that wasn't exposed to backbenchers looking for their pre-election inch in the newspaper columns.

Grizzly 45

Article on the meeting in Athlone with Marian Harkin MEP. There is a right rouges gallery of shooting boards.ie members in the pictures.:)

Grizzly 45

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/law/EU-gun-ban-GENVAL-IMCO-LIBE-Commission-Council-JURI-update/

Brexit could play a crucial role in this,and could be a VERY double edged sword for us as well. Good in that it might dump out a load of anti gun MEPs .Bad in that we could loos Vicky Ford MEP as raconteur and have her replaced by a more anti gun MEP as chosen by the unelected EU Kommisars.
Intresting times as usual.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

Over 800 amendments. :eek: How the fcuk do they get anything done over there in that parliament.

Going by the power point chart of legislation process.I'm amazed thy manage to get it thru at all with all the comittees,sub comittees,,etc.

Grizzly 45

I'll be grand,shure I only have a single shot rifle or shotgun....Think Again after reading this...Good to see FACE finally waking up alotmore on this problem in Europe. Better late thn never I suppose.

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/law/EU-gun-ban-FACE-press-release/

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/law/EU-gun-ban-FACE-press-release/Council-Clamps-Down-Hunters-Sport-Shooters.pdf

Grizzly 45

Five AKs,125 kilos of high explosive,two RPGs, five k worth of ammo and dozens of detonators.All for 250 k euros
.And he didnt buy any deactivated ,blank firing guns or from a legal firearms dealer.These were the real Mc Coy supplied by the Ukranian secret service in a sting.

THIS is what EU politicans should be concerned about ,not legal gun owners with modern sporting rifles,or deacts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/euro-2016-terror-threat-attacks-france-ukraine-a7067186.html

German BILD newspaper is abit more detailed
http://www.bild.de/news/inland/terroranschlag/politik-eilmeldung-em-46154586.bild.html

gunny123

https://youtu.be/9GjeGAEGJy0

Grizzly 45

Cant see that one going well.How do you hunt if you have no guns?

Grizzly 45

Thank you for your further email. I have passed on your specific comments and concerns to Vicky Ford and will be in touch again as soon as I receive her reponse.

Kind regards

Is mise le meas
Brian

Brian Crowley MEP
Maryborough Lodge
Maryborough Hill
Douglas
Cork

Tel (021) 4896 433 Fax (021) 4896 401
Email info@briancrowleymep.ie
Web www.briancrowleymep.ie
Facebook www.facebook.com/briancrowleymep

Please do not print this email unless absolutely necessary




To: Brian Crowley MEP
Subject: RE: Regarding meeting of justice committee meeting on firearms yesterday

Derar Brian
Thanks for getting back to me on this .Note Vicky Ford's reply to you .
It seems that there is still an insistence of some EU govts and MEPS to move semi autos into a prohibited category and irrespective of facts to the contrary an insistence on banning them.Specifically


All detachable magazines holding more than 11 rounds for long guns (rifles, carbines,
shotguns) and more than 21 rounds for handguns, would be banned.

This is rather sneaky as the majority of sporting firearms and guns not even thought of under this legislation could be caught in this.IE many bolt action hunting and target rifles are capable of holding larger after market magazines.


• Semi-automatic firearms capable to accept those “High-Capacity” magazines would be banned.

I suggest people proposing this nonsense look at the USA where various states have tried this and failed miserably, and as there is no definition here of what "high capacity" is ,or would, or could be, this is an utter no go. Also this means even "civilian" semi auto rifles would be included as most if not all designs of civilian rifles can accept bigger aftermarket box magazines.

• Firearms using internal box or tube magazines capable to hold more than 11 rounds (for rifles, carbines, shotguns) or 21 rounds (for pistols) may also be banned or restricted.

• All semi-automatic firearms that can be shortened to less than 60 centimeters in length by the use of a collapsing, telescoping, folding or easily removable buttstock should be banned.

Another ridiculous proposition.As this is overall length,and fearing a cosmetic feature,[and a rather uncomfortable one at that].All that needs to be done is add two milimeters to a overall length and this is null and void.Also these short semi auto firearms do have a ligt use in hunting in dense brush for going after wounded animals[ EG European wild boar].


• “Demilitarized” guns – those semi-automatic, civilian-grade guns converted after full automatic military firearms – would be banned even if the modification has been put in place in such a way that would make re-conversion to select-fire/full-automatic capabilities impossible.

When a firearm is demilitarised properly it is impossible to make it into a select fire gun again without extensive machineist skills or even replacement parts for this conversion. Ownership of the parts is already illegal in most cases in the EU,and no one can legislate for criminal intent.Plus, if someone is that skilled a machineist,they wouldn’t be troubled by designing and building a simple sub machine gun from raw materials rather then going to the labourious process of building a deactivated firearm.

• While partial exceptions to those bans could be granted to sport shooters, only national shooting federations recognized by the ISSF (International Sport Shooting Federation) would have the authority to decide what a “Sporting firearm” is and what is not. This means that all guns that are not conceived for academic or Olympic shooting competitions – including IPSC/IDPA/3-Gun firearms – would not qualify for the exemption. Moreover, sport shooters would only be granted a permit for such firearms if they have been active shooters during the preceding twelve months.

Again,we have banned IPSC in Ireland.As it is claimed to be "combat training".Yet it is fully legal in the UK,NI ,Zimbabwae and China! Places where those regimes might have a ligit fear of armed uprising.Also it is a ridiculous proposition of a catch 22.How do you qualify,if your permit is refused to shoot?

• Deactivated firearms and alarm guns should be registered.

How does the EU intend to register X million of previously sold deacts that could be anywhere in the EU, along with 10to the power of X million blank firing alarm guns.Both of whom most EU countries don’t even consider firearms in the first place?



• Licenses allowing ownership of semi-automatic firearms could be limited in duration – possibly to as shortly as three years.
We already have this in Ireland for ALL firearms.And it is causing unimaginable greif and wastage of Garda manpower and time,not to mind taxpayer money.What would this be like on an EU scale??

• A grandfathering clause would allow current owners to retain those firearms, but no new ones could be acquired by anybody and existing ones could not be transferred for any reason – including inheritance: upon owner's death, those guns should thus be confiscated and destroyed without compensation.

Again see Ireland with centrefire handguns,courtesy of the criminal justice misc provisions act 2008. Considerd unconstitutional and awaiting a legal challenge.This also flies in the face of various EU countries laws on inheritance,notably Germany and proably also falls foul of the EU "charter on human rights" Article eight and fourteen right to peaceable enjoyment of private property and compensation for confiscation at market value in case of "the public good"

In short,this is a lot of unworkable stuff that will not go and do one thing to make any EU citizen safer against further misuse of terrorist weapons imported from war zones thru our porous borders and continue to harass and peanalise the ligit EU gunowner.
I would suggest you peruse response to the latest on Firearms United reply[ http://firearms-united.com/2016/05/13/eu-firearms-directive/ ] for some reasonable suggestions to these questions
Kindest regards

Mississippi.

Is any of you able to get on to the Firearms United Ireland Facebook page?
I cannot get on this past two days. The heading comes up and the refresh symbol keeps circulating but it will not enter.
Is it my phone or the site itself?

Grizzly 45

Must be the phone or net connection.Its working fine for me.