MORE crap on the way.

Steve012

I haven't been keeping up to date on what the powers that be in Brussels are at regarding, a full ban? or partial?
How do you folks think semi auto .22's and .22 pistols fairing out?
Anyone have any idea.

Appreciated.

BattleCorp

Steve012 wrote: »

I haven't been keeping up to date on what the powers that be in Brussels are at regarding, a full ban? or partial?
How do you folks think semi auto .22's and .22 pistols fairing out?
Anyone have any idea.

Appreciated.

I don't think anyone has a clue about what is going to happen. As Clint Eastwood would say "It's a clusterfcuk".

At a guess, .22 semi auto pistols and rifles will be grand. Semi auto centrefire rifles should be ok but I wouldn't bet my house on it.

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

Please to note for the record that in Switzerland -

I have an idea already as i have family in Switzerland. Don't have much contact with them, but they've been there for over 40 years.

2. The arm is permanently altered internally from full-auto to semi-auto in compliance with Swiss Federal Firearms law AND Euopean laws.

This is one of the key points still being raised. The conversion of full auto to semi, along with de-acts being converted back to live fire, etc.

Steve012 wrote: »

I haven't been keeping up to date on what the powers that be in Brussels are at regarding, a full ban? or partial?

At the start of all this they were looking for full bans on, well, basically most types of guns. Semi auto shotguns, pistols, rifles, etc. It was initially a reaction to the terrorist attacks in France (both of them) but has quickly evolved into a bastardised attack on legal firearm owners because we're an easier target.

The initial ban was so badly thought out (and i use that term loosely) that they were not even going to ban the "weapons" that were used in the attacks including the type in the Norway massacre.

Over the last number of months a slight degree of common sense has broken through but not from enlightened debate and thorough discussion but from member states (countries, not people) actively opposing the proposals.

The EU done no ground work, no impact studies, and eventually admitted they cannot talk with accurate figures because the cost and workload to detail all the firearms in private owners hands, the types, current status, etc. is next to impossible because of the various laws in each country regarding registration and records.

Look at Ireland alone. While all firearms, and even things we would class as not being a firearm, must be registered and licensed. However the PULSE system is so out of touch with reality, so incomplete, so inaccurate that even the Garda inspectorate and an independent review said the system is wholly, almost comically, outdated and open to abuse and inaccuracies. They hand gun safes down as stolen firearms. Hand grenades, scopes, etc.

How do you folks think semi auto .22's and .22 pistols fairing out?

It is still far from over but the short version is most firearms are "safe". They have tightened up on registration (both firearms and dealers), and made de-acts more stringent.

There are other issues, but from an Irish perspective they are not too problematic. However as this is an EU wide issue and friends in the various European shooting sports will have to contend it's important we continue to show our support and object to these ridiculous proposals and show them for the impotent attempt at countering terrorism that they are.

Savage93

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Unless its one of these perhaps?:P;) an utter steal at 700 USD:pac:

WANT ONE !!!!!!!!!!

Grizzly 45

At that price ,I'd rather a Saiga 12 shotgun for another 300 dollars extra and get something that will work 100% of the time.:p

yubabill1

Steve012 wrote: »

I haven't been keeping up to date on what the powers that be in Brussels are at regarding, a full ban? or partial?
How do you folks think semi auto .22's and .22 pistols fairing out?
Anyone have any idea.

Appreciated.

As an addendum to Cass' excellent summary, I think they are still pressing for semi auto centerfire magazines to be limited to 10 rounds and handgun mags to 20.

As Griz has been reporting, Katya Triebel has been doing some top-class research and submitting same to this debate. They really, REALLY need high level (read: for dummies) summaries, as no politician is going to read them and even those that try to read them will soon give up, as they don't have the time to spend on one subject.

Cass

They want a cap on C/F semi auto rifle mags to 20 rounds. You can have more than this if you show "good reason" such as a member of a sport or range that allows/necessitates more than 20. In which case you're exempt from any restriction.

Grizzly 45

Here is a great position paper from FU as to why the mag ban wont work.
Cant get my head around these people that cant figure out that 2 20 rounders clipped or taped side by side equals one 40 round .One is illegal,the other perfectly legal..
http://firearms-united.com/2016/07/13/no-hc-mag-ban/
One intresting point there that might apply in some cases to us here.It is apprently EU case law of the European court of human rights [EUCHR]Its utterly illegal to compel anyone to join any club or organisation to gain a liscense or permit or anything of the like.Just a thought for future applications for pistols and CF rifles and having the precondition of being a club member.

Grizzly 45

https://www.facebook.com/MarinaAlbiolGuzman/posts/389643891159786.

If anyone ever had ANY doubts about the Greens anti gun and shooting stance globally and EU wide ,this is it! BTW this charming lady belongs to a group called Nordic Greens.FOUR of Our Irish mEPS [two SFers and Greenies] are members of it as well.
For the FB ers amongst us you might care to voice your displeasure on her FB page?

garrettod

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.....For the FB ers amongst us you might care to voice your displeasure on her FB page?

Perhaps, more importantly, they might also express their clear displeasure on the Irish MEPs pages, let them know they are being watched by those who employ them !

gunny123

garrettod wrote: »

Perhaps, more importantly, they might also express their clear displeasure on the Irish MEPs pages, let them know they are being watched by those who employ them !

They won't rock the massive salary (100k/year), travel expenses (4k a trip), official business allowance (304 euros a day), office allowance (4k a month), Staff allowance (up to 22k a month, split between the family and the cronies) + pension + medical reimbursement scheme ++++++ boat just for a few people with guns do ya. The more i see of the eu and its "parliament", the more i reckon Farage was right about them.

garrettod

gunny123 wrote: »

They won't rock the massive salary (100k/year), travel expenses (4k a trip), official business allowance (304 euros a day), office allowance (4k a month), Staff allowance (up to 22k a month, split between the family and the cronies) + pension + medical reimbursement scheme ++++++ boat just for a few people with guns do ya.....

They might, if enough of us kick up and they think we might pull those nice little jobs from under them !

As for Farage, there's right or wrong about leaving the EU and then there's Farage

Cass

garrettod wrote: »

......... let them know they are being watched by those who employ them !

garrettod wrote: »

........... we might pull those nice little jobs from under them !

With as little interest as there is in national politics how many do you think actually follow European politics. There is also the added bonus that we have no lobby group in this country and even if we did our numbers do not represent a high enough stake, in any one district/constituency, to pose any sort of risk.

It's an empty threat and frankly one that would only make the person using it look foolish for trying to brandish.

The only method we have is writing. We have the numbers to make a serious go of it, but as with all things we lack the unity and determination to follow through. Out of an estimated 120,000 firearm owners at the last bout of writing campaigns we had a maximum of 26, and with the last petition just shy of 1,000. That got a better response because people just had to click "Yes" or "No".

That is between 0.02 & 0.8% reaction. So what chance is there to threaten any MEP with their job if they don't do as we want?

Lastly out of the current 751 MEPs, Ireland have 11. A drop in the ocean and they're not members of the largest party.

None of of this should be taken as a reason for "why bother" attitudes. We must make whatever little say we have matter. However with a people that are so disinterested in looking out for their own interests you have to wonder. I mean anyone i speak to about this topic in real life has no clue. They never heard about an EU attempted gun grab. They did not know that their own firearms were at risk, that some still are, that de-acts have new standards, etc.

I can understand not wanting to be bothered with politics, but to have your head in the sand is dangerous. You'll wake up some morning and have AGS at your door looking to collect all your guns because they slept through a ban they could have helped avoid.

Grizzly 45

As some Greek sage once said."If you don't bother with politics,its no grauntee that politics won't bother with you!"

OTOH if half of the Irish shooting pouplation signed the change.org petition as it stands it would put it over a half million signitures,and that would mean that the whole legislation would have to be reviewed or re drafted by the EU. That would be quite a ake up call for Irish MEPS too.

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As some Greek sage once said."If you don't bother with politics,its no grauntee that politics won't bother with you!"

OTOH if half of the Irish shooting pouplation signed the change.org petition as it stands it would put it over a half million signitures,and that would mean that the whole legislation would have to be reviewed or re drafted by the EU. That would be quite a ake up call for Irish MEPS too.

jeez

didn't think the petition had got that big - does the review/re-draft clause apply post november vote? lovely way to throw a spanner in the works

BattleCorp

Too many Irish shooters are either apathetic or lazy. The proof of that was when Marion Harkin had her meeting in Athlone. There was hardly 20 people there. The shooting organisation I am with didn't even bother to send a representative.

goz83

BattleCorp wrote: »

Too many Irish shooters are either apathetic or lazy. The proof of that was when Marion Harkin had her meeting in Athlone. There was hardly 20 people there. The shooting organisation I am with didn't even bother to send a representative.

I actually think that unless it's something imminently going to cost us (Irish people) in cold hard cash, on a regular basis, there is little that will rile us up enough to get up off our holes and show support. Oh, but if there is a GAA match on, people find the time there alright....and then the pub after.

On the day of the Athlone meeting, I was working, but also I don't know enough about the sport in general to have been anymore than an extra face in the small crowd. I would certainly try to attend unless I was working, or out of the country though, even if the journey would have me crippled.

BattleCorp

goz83 wrote: »

I actually think that unless it's something imminently going to cost us (Irish people) in cold hard cash, on a regular basis, there is little that will rile us up enough to get up off our holes and show support. Oh, but if there is a GAA match on, people find the time there alright....and then the pub after.

On the day of the Athlone meeting, I was working, but also I don't know enough about the sport in general to have been anymore than an extra face in the small crowd. I would certainly try to attend unless I was working, or out of the country though, even if the journey would have me crippled.

Unfortunately, extra faces in the crowd was what we needed. Fair play to Marion, she was the only one who bothered with us and for that I'm grateful. But if the room had been packed out, it would have sent a much stronger signal that people are p1ssed off with these proposals. And it might have made us appear stronger and therefore make the politicians take more notice of us.

16 people in a room when these proposals have the capacity to affect nearly 100k people just doesn't cut it. Your average politician won't give a sh1t about 16 people being annoyed with this proposal. If it was 100k people annoyed, then they'd sit up and take notice.

And what has me more p1ssed off is that the NGB (open to debate) of my sport didn't bother to send a representative to that meeting.

Grizzly 45

Brian Crowley has in fairness been supporting us as well.But 2 out of 8 MEPs is pretty sad.Thankfully its a different story on the continent with gun owners and repersentation and especially former East bloc countries who really know what it is like to live in very gun controlled societies.Would have thought after our experiances here we would be the same too.
Funny tho .We can fill a room and then some if we are arsed about the issue.I refer to the NASRPC egm.
I get the feeling like most of us in daily life we leave the national and EU decisions to the big boys and girls in Dublin and Brussells.We have to change that attitude as a nation.

Cass

Apathy and "laziness" account for some of it, but as i said above i honestly believe the biggest problem we have is lack of knowledge. IOW people don't know what is going on.

I don't mean they don't understand it, i mean they don't know this is happening.

Forums and social media are good ways to get information out there but it's surprising the amount of people that are not on it, and then even those that are don't follow the right topics to know what is going on.

Lastly you have those that might have heard of it, but think it's nothing to do with them. IOW it won't affect their guns.

By the time they do know or find out it's too late. How many times have we heard or seen new legislation on a national level come in for people to ask "when did this happen" or "how come i didn't know this was happening".

So as well as writing to MEPs, TDs, and the other various Government representatives we should be writing and talking to the representatives in our NGBs, clubs, groups, etc. Have them post notices on their websites, Facebook pages, letters pinned to their notice Boards, and even holding information days/nights and explain what is happening to their members.

It would be bad if we lost our sport through failure to change minds, but because of inaction/didn't know it was happening would be a disaster.

Grizzly 45

With an anti gun Scottish socialist SNP in charge.:(
http://www.gunsweek.com/en/industry/news/eu-gun-ban-trialogue-starts

sfakiaman

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

With an anti gun Scottish socialist SNP in charge.:(
http://www.gunsweek.com/en/industry/news/eu-gun-ban-trialogue-starts

labour I think.

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Brian Crowley has in fairness been supporting us as well.But 2 out of 8 MEPs is pretty sad.Thankfully its a different story on the continent with gun owners and repersentation and especially former East bloc countries who really know what it is like to live in very gun controlled societies.Would have thought after our experiances here we would be the same too.
Funny tho .We can fill a room and then some if we are arsed about the issue.I refer to the NASRPC egm.
I get the feeling like most of us in daily life we leave the national and EU decisions to the big boys and girls in Dublin and Brussells.We have to change that attitude as a nation.

Matt Carthy is supporting us, too - had a couple of replies from him.

In fairness, we had a reasonable turnout for Marian's meeting. There were between 20-30 people in the room and I've been to meetings where the organisers outnumbered the attendees on more than one occasion...

BattleCorp

yubabill1 wrote: »

Matt Carthy is supporting us, too - had a couple of replies from him.

In fairness, we had a reasonable turnout for Marian's meeting. There were between 20-30 people in the room and I've been to meetings where the organisers outnumbered the attendees on more than one occasion...

I have to disagree with you on that one. We didn't have a reasonable turnout for Marian's meeting. I was there. There were hardly 20 people in the room. To be blunt, it was a sh1te turnout. Three people were the organisers, Marion, Des Crofton and the guy who was Marion's assistant (apologies but I can't remember his name). Take them out of the equation and there were less than 20 people there.

Less than 20 people there when there are proposals on the table that could decimate shooting sports in the country. That's less than 20 people out of how many gun owners here in Ireland? Nah, I couldn't consider that a reasonable turnout.

When you see things like the NASRPC AGM having to be moved to a bigger room to accommodate approximately 160 - 180 people, the turnout for Marion's meeting was very very disappointing.

Grizzly 45

As I said..Peoples pirorities can be bass ackwards around here on things.NASRPC ,fill the room to capacity and then have to move to a bigger conference room to have a blood bath coup de etat and election all in one go.Local issues,easily understood.
EU and semi auto rifles...Shure who'd want want of dem yokes?They are banned already! EU,well shure don't we have FACE/NARGC to deal with them problems??Forgetting the old adage of fecal matter going in a certain direction all the time:( [FACE was still in bed on this issue by Jan of this year.F U and others had already letters and campaign plans in operation 48 hours after the Paris attack.Not a critique of FACE,better late than never,but it shows they were somewhat unaware of how many hunters use SA's in the EU that would be affected]

yubabill1

I mentioned the connection between hunting rifles and assault rifles in several correspondences to MEP's and Dept of Justice (I think) over the last couple of years.

The infamous Bonnie and Clyde's use of high-powered cars and guns prompted law enforcement to copy their tactics and the guy who finally caught-up with them -Frank Hamer- purchased a Remington Model 8 semi auto hunting rifle to which he had added a custom high-capacity magazine.

It seems a small industry rose up to customise the Model 8 and its successor the Model 81 for police use; does this firearm in the video remind you of any assault rifle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpYIX5bPtcA

Grizzly 45

No more than this one would.Total civvie SA

Grizzly 45

Intrestingly Bonnie & Clydes favourite weapon was the Browning BAR 30.06 rifle.Nicked from National Guard armouries..
Things don't change much then.Considering most "assault weapons" seem to be going astray from military and police stockpiles that are recovered on the streets of Europe and the USA
.http://texashideout.tripod.com/guns.html

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Intrestingly Bonnie & Clydes favourite weapon was the Browning BAR 30.06 rifle.Nicked from National Guard armouries..
Things don't change much then.Considering most "assault weapons" seem to be going astray from military and police stockpiles that are recovered on the streets of Europe and the USA
.http://texashideout.tripod.com/guns.html

Yes, and Hamer's outfit were equipped with BAR's, following Bonnie and Clyde's lead.
But Hamer himself preferred a more controllable, intermediate calibre with some decent accuracy, unlike that afforded by the Tommy gun or such.

It's just another argument to counter the likes of senior law enforcement saying "yakka.. yakka.. assault rifles are for military/police only..yakka..yakka"

As far as the assault weapons going astray, I reckon the numbers falling into the wrong hands from military/police arsenals dwarf the numbers from civilians by magnitudes of order.

Grizzly 45

They do.was following the story of the Austrian poacher who shot two Austrian SEK men and an ambulance driver two years ago.Turns out the murder weapon was a Steyr AUG military service rifle with a silencer.An utter" Franken gun" made up of military parts that were supposedly decomissioned and destroyed by the Austrian army.

Apprently also in that part of the world something like 5 thousand US M4s are unaccounted for in the US armouries over there,and there aren't that many US bases left in Germany either anymore.Where they be at?

How did Irish criminals end up with new in the grease glocks too? A consingement of Glock 17 and 19s destined for the Dutch military went walkies out of the secure holding facilities of the Euro port[proably for a bag of decent weed ,knowing that lot!] so the story goes and before you can say oxo there are brand new Glocks for sale in the underworld six or seven years ago.

Stones ,glasshouses and sloppy storage doesnt mean much to EU govts obviously.:rolleyes: