MORE crap on the way.

Grizzly 45

Well,we still aren't as safe as we thought fellow non SA users.
This is from an internal triloge[leaked] document. Dated on the day of the conference in Brussels.

Just a bit on the conference.It was a apprently " Case of hearing things that my toenails curl,and on the other hand hopefully seeing a light at the end of the tunnel." According to Mark Schieferdecker the president of German Rifle Association.

The cat is out of the bag now…

New attempt (16.11.2016!) by the EU commission to ban specifically:

Civilian firearms of “AR 15 family”, also derivates
Civilian firearms of “AK47 family”, also derivates
ALL detachable magazines above 10 rounds (also for handguns, repeating-firearms, rimfires etc.)
Strong regulation of magazines and semi-automatic firearms
Stricest evaluation of exemptions
Immediate decision on bans, since “EU citizens” demand more protection!
Sourced from EU commission document, 16. November 2016, published on Website of Austrian Parliament: Link

PLEASE share with all European firearms associations, and if possible, translate the contents into other languages. Share with your colleagues and friends.

Original text:
Following two trilogue meetings, the co-legislators were still unable to agree on the revision of the Firearms Directive. These negotiations must be unblocked to take military grade assault weapons off the streets including those converted to semi-automatic use. The Commission’s position is clear that semi-automatic assault weapons derived from the “AK 47 Kalashnikov family” and the “AR 15 family” should be banned for civilian use given that they were designed for military use. Magazine sizes for short and long firearms should be limited to 10 rounds and should be subject to authorization and stringent checks and any derogation should be strictly limited and tightly controlled. EU citizens expect swift progress in this area to ensure their protection, so we must reach agreement before the end of 2016 on this key piece of legislation. In parallel, the Commission will launch a renewed push to clamp down on the illegal firearms trade including at the EU/Western Balkans Justice and Home Affairs Ministers’ Conference on 15-16 December.

It seems that the pressure is on now, and commission is getting bad publicity and crying about “delayed” firearms directive. However, in this the commission only has itself to blame, due to poorly drafted proposal, which they have not been able to this date, provide any justification for.

gunny123

By the end of 2016 ? A few weeks ? You can expect a dogs breakfast/fudge to be forced through in a rush so and we will all suffer. How on earth do they intend to control magazines ? Matched serial number to the gun or something ?

Grizzly 45

Can't see it happening by then.There is a growing upswing in the Parliment against this whole thing,it is the EU comission Fascists like Maelstrom,Alexis and King etc that are trying to push this thru...If they do force it thru it opens a whole new can of worms and will make the whole case for countries exits from the eU reich all the more stronger.Dont know if you saw the Swiss rep at the conference who said it nicely.They can put over 500 thousand shooters to a petition to the Swiss govt to break off relations and dump Shenegen if this goes thru.
Should also add,at the moment the presidency is held by Slovakia and then after that Malta..Both countries are pretty well known as pro gun ownership ,so they won't and aren't taking kindly to the Comissions attitude.

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

so they won't and aren't taking kindly to the Comissions attitude.

But thats why things like brexit, afd and trump getting elected are happening, the commission are completely disconnected from the concerns of people outside their own well paid happy little bubble.

Grizzly 45

A article on what happened in Brussels at the FU conference. It is shocking to think we have muppets like Alan Alexis in charge of a half a billion people in the EU via the unelected comission that can be either so badly misinformed or idelogically blinded to belive that they are right and no one else is.
One thing is for sure if the EU keeps pushing for this kind of social engineering in the EU,"the Trump effect" will be felt here too.[The sooner the better IMHO]

http://www.gunsweek.com/en/events/articles/gun-rights-conference-european-parliament

gunny123

"semi automatic is more effective than fully automatic for massacres" !

Heaven help us if thats the level of knowledge of the commission.

tac foley

gunny123 wrote: »

"semi automatic is more effective than fully automatic for massacres" !

Heaven help us if thats the level of knowledge of the commission.

Actually, it is a lot worse than that.

IRC, the head of the commission [please to note lack of the use of capitals here], was of the firm belief that three rounds equalled thirty-one shots.

Not only wrong, but mathematically impossible.

OTOH, he might just be a lawyer or a politician...

tac

Grizzly 45

Funny that no one mentioned this little ditty at the conference to Msur Alexis,or maybe he thinks it doesn't apply to us plebs...

Article 17 of the EU constitution
Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general interest.”
Wonder how much that would/will cost the EU,if they push this down to magazines as well for other Cat firearms?

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Funny that no one mentioned this little ditty at the conference to Msur Alexis,or maybe he thinks it doesn't apply to us plebs...

Article 17 of the EU constitution
Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general interest.”
Wonder how much that would/will cost the EU,if they push this down to magazines as well for other Cat firearms?

LadeeeezunGennulmen - I give you 'The get-out clause'!!!!!!!!!!!

tac

Grizzly 45

But that's only part of the sentence.
No one may be deprived of his or her possessions,[comma] except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law,[comma] subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. Full stop.

This came about because of a certain Herr Hitler having a problem with a certain religious and ethnic groups, ,And depriving them of their valuable possesions at a thousandth of it's market value in about the mid to late 1930sStill quite a sore point in Germany..So unless the EU wants to show that the much vaunted "human rights" of the EU subject arent worth the paper they are written on,they will have to do a buyback at market value,once they change the law...But please do pee off even more people with the EU project and magnify the Trump effect in countries that are pro gun and getting peeved off .

tac foley

Sir, I read it loud and clear. My point was even taking into account the rest of the sentence, you can STILL loose your guns.

It happened twice here in UK - 1987 and 1997.

tac

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A article on what happened in Brussels at the FU conference. It is shocking to think we have muppets like Alan Alexis in charge of a half a billion people in the EU via the unelected comission that can be either so badly misinformed or idelogically blinded to belive that they are right and no one else is.
One thing is for sure if the EU keeps pushing for this kind of social engineering in the EU,"the Trump effect" will be felt here too.[The sooner the better IMHO]

http://www.gunsweek.com/en/events/articles/gun-rights-conference-european-parliament

I'm afraid that listening to Merkel, Schulz, Trichet et al recently, on other matters such as Brexit, they have retreated into their own little world in the face of "populist" movements.

They were never ones for populism as recent history illustrates - never mind our re-running a referendum when we got the answer wrong, no-one has ever provided an explanation why the 62% NO to austerity vote in Greece last year has been ignored by
1. the Greek government
2. the EU
3. the media.

The Eurocrats have made a decision regarding the way forward -remember they had to choose with more Europe or less Europe after the UK referendum? Judging by their rhetoric, their answer is unanimously more Europe - i.e.; more intrusion into citizen's lives and hell-to-pay for anyone who whimpers (not that Enda or Frances would dream of it).

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Funny that no one mentioned this little ditty at the conference to Msur Alexis,or maybe he thinks it doesn't apply to us plebs...

Article 17 of the EU constitution
Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general interest.”
Wonder how much that would/will cost the EU,if they push this down to magazines as well for other Cat firearms?

They don't care about a few mags or SA rifles - ask anyone who had their savings in a Cyprus bank a couple of years ago.

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

Sir, I read it loud and clear. My point was even taking into account the rest of the sentence, you can STILL loose your guns.

It happened twice here in UK - 1987 and 1997.

tac

Self inflicted injury there in both cases I'm afraid,not Brussels fault.Well,You'll soon be out of it and no thanks to that unelected loon in Nr 10 for opening her big gob about Britian having exemplery gun laws that the EU should follow.Along with that other fellow before her who was as uninspiring as John Major.:)

gunny123

There was a talking head on one of the news channels today, who reckons if Marine le Pen gets elected it could be game over for the EU, or then again there is Geert Wilders. The Hungarians, who have told the eu to get stuffed a few times now. The EU isn't popular in countries like Italy, and the rise of AFD in Germany suggests a lot of Germans are tired of it too. Is there anyone outside of some of the Germans, who actually think a federal EU is attractive ?

With nonsense like this attempted gun ban, i seriously doubt it.

Grizzly 45

yubabill1 wrote: »

They don't care about a few mags or SA rifles - ask anyone who had their savings in a Cyprus bank a couple of years ago.

A few???? Estimated over a million plus in Germany alone...Cant keep them on the shelves over there they are continously the most pouplar seller for ten years straight.There are now five German companies churning these out with Teutonic precision .Average price about 1750 euros... God alone how many are now EU wide....Think it might be a bit more than Cypress bank accounts.

I'm afraid that listening to Merkel, Schulz, Trichet et al recently, on other matters such as Brexit, they have retreated into their own little world in the face of "populist" movements.

Called Bunker mentality..Or the Chaucescu balcony moment.

They were never ones for populism as recent history illustrates - never mind our re-running a referendum when we got the answer wrong, no-one has ever provided an explanation why the 62% NO to austerity vote in Greece last year has been ignored by
1. the Greek government
2. the EU
3. the media.

Oh we could add to that list all nite. In short we are putting in more than we are getting out in the long term,and all the more reason to leave soonest.

The Eurocrats have made a decision regarding the way forward -remember they had to choose with more Europe or less Europe after the UK referendum? Judging by their rhetoric, their answer is unanimously more Europe - i.e.; more intrusion into citizen's lives and hell-to-pay for anyone who whimpers (not that Enda or Frances would dream of it).

Will work here obviously with the EU collabratuers and Quisslings we have in the Dail,who are only in it for the money and leave all the serious decisions to the grown ups in Brussels.Our lot are still the best politicans anyones money can buy..But not so much in the rest of the Union where people are a bit more switched onto what its like to live under either dictatorships of the right or left in recent history.Things like Brexit,Trump and no doubt Le Pen in France next year are shattering their world view,and there is a swing back to the right.It would behove them to stop sitting in echo chambers and trying to foist rotten things on us the people and thinking we will keep swallowing it.:mad:

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

There was a talking head on one of the news channels today, who reckons if Marine le Pen gets elected it could be game over for the EU, or then again there is Geert Wilders. The Hungarians, who have told the eu to get stuffed a few times now. The EU isn't popular in countries like Italy, and the rise of AFD in Germany suggests a lot of Germans are tired of it too. Is there anyone outside of some of the Germans, who actually think a federal EU is attractive ?

With nonsense like this attempted gun ban, i seriously doubt it.

Only worry in Germany is that the Merkel devil you know is better than the Devils of a Very Red and somewhat Red Green[Absolutely NO friends of gun ownership or hunting] colation or the unknown but somewhat too close to the bone of the past of AFD/Pegida,but who are very pro gun..

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Only worry in Germany is that the Merkel devil you know is better than the Devils of a Very Red and somewhat Red Green[Absolutely NO friends of gun ownership or hunting] colation or the unknown but somewhat too close to the bone of the past of AFD/Pegida,but who are very pro gun..

Those german extreme greens scare me more than anyone else, Seeing quotes from Dr. Von Berg saying things that would make me wonder is she sane, the thoughts of the likes of her with power is terrifying.

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A few???? Estimated over a million plus in Germany alone...Cant keep them on the shelves over there they are continously the most pouplar seller for ten years straight.There are now five German companies churning these out with Teutonic precision .Average price about 1750 euros... God alone how many are now EU wide....Think it might be a bit more than Cypress bank accounts.



........




Will work here obviously with the EU collabratuers and Quisslings we have in the Dail,who are only in it for the money and leave all the serious decisions to the grown ups in Brussels.Our lot are still the best politicans anyones money can buy..But not so much in the rest of the Union where people are a bit more switched onto what its like to live under either dictatorships of the right or left in recent history.Things like Brexit,Trump and no doubt Le Pen in France next year are shattering their world view,and there is a swing back to the right.It would behove them to stop sitting in echo chambers and trying to foist rotten things on us the people and thinking we will keep swallowing it.:mad:

Dunno how much Cyprus bail-in was, but 2k x 1mill = 2Bn, even allowing 2 or 3 times that for rest EU, still small change to EU.

BTW, reading article yesterday saying Le Pen economic policy pretty naive, so will not appeal to majority, plus of course, the other parties will coalesce to keep her out.

Some guy called Fillon ousted Sarkozy as centre-right candidate - as Hollande enjoys lowest ratings in modern history and Fillon is pro immigration reform...

Grizzly 45

And according to the statistics affected are 200 million Eu citizens who are gun owners... 200 Billion euros...Still small change?;) OK ,even if they dont all go to court or don't bother,the toxic effect to the EU project is proably even more damaging..
But I'll let Tomasz W. Stępień the president of FU say it so much better as he did last Wed in Brussels. Enjoy.
https://firearms-united.com/2016/11/20/stepien/

roosman

wow !! now that's a presentation! beautifully crafted arguments and undeniable political logic by Tomasz. Sets the standard for any future debate here..

Grizzly 45

TBH, members of boards here were no slouches either when it came to us saying our piece in the Dail comission two[?] years ago .:) Take a bow,you know who you are!;)

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And according to the statistics affected are 200 million Eu citizens who are gun owners... 200 Billion euros...Still small change?;) OK ,even if they dont all go to court or don't bother,the toxic effect to the EU project is proably even more damaging..
But I'll let Tomasz W. Stępień the president of FU say it so much better as he did last Wed in Brussels. Enjoy.
https://firearms-united.com/2016/11/20/stepien/

Devil's advocate here: Where does the 200 million firearms owners figure come from?

There are roughly 500m citizens in EU28

Grizzly 45

http://www.gunsweek.com/en/current/articles/eu-gun-ban-new-call-action-firearms-united#points-be-made-3179

Grizzly 45

yubabill1 wrote: »

Devil's advocate here: Where does the 200 million firearms owners figure come from?

There are roughly 500m citizens in EU28

Actually misquoted or mis used.It should be 200 million legally registerd firearms in the EU.

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

http://www.gunsweek.com/en/current/articles/eu-gun-ban-new-call-action-firearms-united#points-be-made-3179

So, the lame duck governments of Germany, France and Italy (all three of which face impending elections - Italy will need a snap election if they lose next month's referendum) are putting pressure on the MEP's to agree to the (unelected) EU Commission's total ban as originally proposed.

I can see why they want this resolved by the end of 2016 - two will be out of power in 2017 and Merkel, if she survives, will be in a weakened state i some kind of coalition like we have here.

They're asking us to write to our MEP's once again.

Let's get it on.

Grizzly 45

Another shooting competition missed because of this BS:mad:.Spent the day writing to MEPS.A freakin right PITFH because you cant cut&paste a reply and it has to be almost handcrafted to each and every one.Well the Irish MEPS and the UK MEPs have been done by me.Anyone else done any?

tac foley

Like every legal gun-owner in the UK, I don't have any kind of a centrefire s/a firearm, but I support all those who still do, regardless of nationality or politics.

The right to self-determine those things that give you pleasure - and that includes taking part in your chosen sport or pastime - is written into the Human Rights clauses of the tenets of the European Union, much as the RKBA is written into the US Constitution.

So I've written to MY MEP, expressing my grave displeasure at the sheer effrontery of the proposals on their table, and I urge all those who live in the North of Ireland to do the same.

tac

Cass

A classic example. I need to be careful, as do we all, of technical contempt of court (harshly criticising a sentence).

Man found with illegal/unlicensed restricted firearm, modified, illegal/restricted ammo, for illegal purposes (self protection), all while being arrested for illegal activities.

Given €400 fine.

We are expected to loose our legally held firearms, that are registered and known, for the protection of essentially ourselves, when this is going on and the sentence for it is the equivalent of littering.

If more was done to stop people having these illegal firearms than trying to stop those that have abided by all the laws from enjoying their legal sport/pastime then people would have more faith in the system and the (albeit non elected) representatives.

tac foley

Over here, he would have about five years safe from the need for most forms of self-protection. Apart from the off-chance of having to fight off the unwelcome advances of his cell-mate, that is.

As you say, it makes a farce of the law, as it stands.

tac