MORE crap on the way.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

A classic example. I need to be careful, as do we all, of technical contempt of court (harshly criticising a sentence).

Man found with illegal/unlicensed restricted firearm, modified, illegal/restricted ammo, for illegal purposes (self protection), all while being arrested for illegal activities.

Given €400 fine.

We are expected to loose our legally held firearms, that are registered and known, for the protection of essentially ourselves, when this is going on and the sentence for it is the equivalent of littering.

If more was done to stop people having these illegal firearms than trying to stop those that have abided by all the laws from enjoying their legal sport/pastime then people would have more faith in the system and the (albeit non elected) representatives.

Something fishy about that case. A "magnum handgun capable of firing rubber bullets" ? What the hell is that ? Its the ones capable of firing lead bullets i'd be worried about. Was it a "Magnum" (a much abused term) airsoft by any chance ?

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Another shooting competition missed because of this BS:mad:.Spent the day writing to MEPS.A freakin right PITFH because you cant cut&paste a reply and it has to be almost handcrafted to each and every one.Well the Irish MEPS and the UK MEPs have been done by me.Anyone else done any?

No but i will.

Cass

gunny123 wrote: »

Was it a "Magnum" (a much abused term) airsoft by any chance ?

Could very well be, and in retrospect i should know better than to take articles at face value.

Would explain the sentence, and small fine.

Put it this way i hope you're right otherwise it's a serious "drop the ball" moment.

gunny123

Perhaps one of these ? I have heard of them being used for security.

http://lesslethalalternatives.com/tag/rubber-ball-gun/


This beast was originally designed for law enforcement use, to provide officers with a less lethal solution, but has since then been adopted by civilians in Europe for self defense application as well. It packs a nice 12×50 SAPL rubber buck shot round, each round containing 12 rubber projectiles that will put a not so nice hurt on whoever is on the business end of this thing when it goes off.

tac foley

Maybe, but where did the person get it?

Is thing thing on sale in the RoI? It certainly is NOT anywhere in the UK.

tac

Cass

Could be, but i've only ever seen the traditional airsoft stuff, never rubber rounds type.

MV is low so it falls into the airsoft category, but there are still laws on where, when and how you can possess/have one.

On a personal note using one for defence!. FFS, you'd be better off with a stick with some poo on the end. Be scarier.

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

Maybe, but where did the person get it?

Is thing thing on sale in the RoI? It certainly is NOT anywhere in the UK.

tac

I've read somewhere they are legal in several european countries for self defence.

Grizzly 45

Id bet any money,its something like this

Fits all the criteria to the non knowing of a "Dirty Harry magnum":rolleyes:
You can buy those in Germany,and out to and including Russia,in any gun shop without any kind of permit,Germany you just drop into the cops and give them 50 euros and fill out a form to carry them in a public place .Cost about 100 euros,and of course the EU comission wants these liscensed as they are oh so easy to convert to fire real ammo...:rolleyes:
UH huh I'd ask Alan Alexis or Cilla Maelstrom to go pull the trigger on one loaded with a .357 magnum round in a pot metal frame gun no problem.:P

Nekarsulm

Incredibly easy to get into the country, I should think. Any Polish or Lituanian. shop near here has aalways a couple of adverts for courier vans with weekly deliveries both ways. Local car body shop buys most if its Sikkens paint direct from Poland. Its less than half price...

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Another shooting competition missed because of this BS:mad:.Spent the day writing to MEPS.A freakin right PITFH because you cant cut&paste a reply and it has to be almost handcrafted to each and every one.Well the Irish MEPS and the UK MEPs have been done by me.Anyone else done any?

I don't write these things too easily, like most on here.

Have spent the last few days trying to think what way to construct what I want to say: I've come to the conclusion that the powers-that-be promoting this ban - Germany, France and Italy - are basically afraid of licensed firearms holders. I think it's due to the rise of "populism" in those countries.

The leaders of many EU countries are left-leaning liberals, who are all-for the types of personal freedoms they like, but very much against the types of freedoms that they don't and shooting is very much in the latter category.

Speaking of which, did anyone on here get a reply from Ming? I wrote twice so far and got nada back.

Cass

yubabill1 wrote: »

Speaking of which, did anyone on here get a reply from Ming? I wrote twice so far and got nada back.

Surprised!!

Irish MEPs have one of the lowest attendance records, and among the Irish you have Crowley last with 0%, ming at 16% and Harking third last at 70%. These stats are from 2014/2015 as i cannot find newer ones.

Low attendance means low votes or no votes. So Ming's criticism of the EU doing things for us without our say so holds less water when he is not there to even vote.

Now i believe the low figures had to do with family/health issues, but without being callous if any ordinary person were unable to work or perform their duties they would either voluntarily step down or be forced to retire.

However with a salary of €100,000 and expenses such as office (€50,000 p/a), staff (€255,000), and other expenses each MEP costs between €450,000 to €500,000 or so per annum. With the caveat that they don't have to provide receipts for their expenses as the EU works on, get this, an honour system.

Nice gig, isn't it?

gunny123

yubabill1 wrote: »

The leaders of many EU countries are left-leaning liberals, who are all-for the types of personal freedoms they like, but very much against the types of freedoms that they don't and shooting is very much in the latter category.

Yes, they are all for free speech, unless you are saying something they don't like, when it becomes "hate speech" and you are branded something ending with "ist" or "phobe". George Orwell had a few things to say on that subject, "newspeak".

The EU has appeared to many people as the "Ministry of Truth" for quite a while now.

ezra_

Cass wrote: »

However with a salary of €100,000 and expenses such as office (€50,000 p/a), staff (€255,000), and other expenses each MEP costs between €450,000 to €500,000 or so per annum. With the caveat that they don't have to provide receipts for their expenses as the EU works on, get this, an honour system.

Nice gig, isn't it?

Crowley's attendance was due to him being in hospital for a long time.
Begs the question of whether he should be there at all, but the man was very sick over the period.

Ming's was allegedly due to his wife being sick, or something like that.
You'd swear it was a three-day camel trek each way to Brussels!

yubabill1

gunny123 wrote: »

Yes, they are all for free speech, unless you are saying something they don't like, when it becomes "hate speech" and you are branded something ending with "ist" or "phobe". George Orwell had a few things to say on that subject, "newspeak".

The EU has appeared to many people as the "Ministry of Truth" for quite a while now.

Some are like that, alright.

That Schulz leaving the EU parliament was the best news I heard last week.

My struggle is trying to avoid criticising the EU institutions in my letters and I'm trying to understand how to appeal to frightened representatives in a positive way.

For instance, Mairead McGuinness - who has been silent - is rumoured to be in the race for Schulz's position and she would have been in contact with many firearms owners during her time on the telly, so I'm trying to figure out how to describe these people to her.

Cass

I kept mine short. When i say short i said as much as i could, but kept it just shy of a novel.

People have short attention spans and politicians even shorter. You need to give them the facts in quick succession, and still try to put across an emotional level. You don't want to sound like a cold, disinterested person.

Simply explain that of the spate of terrorist attacks in the past year or so only 9 used firearms. The rest were knives, vehicles, and of course explosives. Of those 9, 8 used AK47s which are illegal anyway.

Move gently onto the fact the statistics being quoted are pure speculation. Don't be afraid to say they're made up, because they are. That is not my opinion, it's fact. There has been no impact study, survey, or any sort of report. In fact this key point was a reason why the original vote did not touch firearms. They did not have figures to support the claims made then which included 10,000 legal firearm deaths, and similar outlandish stats.

I gave a brief run down of the licensing process (from an Irish perspective), and included the requirements for ownership. possession, usage. How my every purchase (including ammo) is recorded. I moved on to the safety record of of shooting sports and even compared it to some other sports.

I then finished off with my take on the actual repercussions of a ban. How it will not effect illegal firearms, how the proposed ban will not ban the guns actually used in terrorist attacks, the inability to legislate for the unpredictable, the need for better border security, increased anti smuggling methods, etc, etc.

Like Grizzly i had to write this a slightly different way each time, but some just copied and pasted the letter as i see no need to try and make each letter individual. They are all from me so why shouldn't they cover the same topics and read the same. Once it's mine that is the only thing that matters. IOW i did not copy and paste someone else's letter.

Cass

Yet more of the same.

Making decisions for people while denying them their right to choose. The same arrogance applies to the firearms issue. The "We know best" attitude shows how insulated and separated they truly are from real life.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

Yet more of the same.

Making decisions for people while denying them their right to choose. The same arrogance applies to the firearms issue. The "We know best" attitude shows how insulated and separated they truly are from real life.

The referendum with Renzi in Italy next month is seen as another possible stumbling block for the EU. If the five star movement gains power they have said they will hold a referendum on EU membership.

Its arrogance like that displayed by Jean Claude Drunkard in that article that will get a lot of peoples backs up.

Grizzly 45

God help Italy if five star gets in according to my Italian contacts.Although anti EU,they can't make up their minds on what to have for dinner,let alone run a country.Sounds like normal Italian politics to me,but anyway,this is the kind of "thickness" we have to deal with over there in Brussels when you read the journalists and politicns comments... At least we are now lumped in with animal rights and free speech for a change.

https://euobserver.com/justice/136074

Also,I have tried to work into my letters the unique Irish situation with gun laws and bans.Seeing that we have the strictest gun laws in the EU,and have had a virtual open civil war in the Northern part for 35 years.Where ironically even in the darkest days of the troubles the gun laws were more liberal than the peaceful Irish republic,and that we have [bar the UK] the fewest handguns and semi auto rifles liscend in the EU.We have the highest criminal usage of both types in the EU!! I illustrated that point with the famous shootout in Dublin in the Kinnanhan /Hutch feud and that it contradicted Alan Alexis nonsense of" terrorists only using semi auto fire as it is more effective than full auto fire" in this case by the amount of empty mags and shell casings recoverd by AGS. I pointed out that surely the EU should be aiming its laws at this kind of weapon misuse by terrorists and criminals,and not at the law abiding??

extremetaz

Just sent my emails away there now - Flanagan, Carthy, Harkin & McGuinness - anyone else I should be firing them at?

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

...and have had a virtual open civil war in the Northern part for 35 years.Where ironically even in the darkest days of the troubles the gun laws were more liberal than the peaceful Irish republic,and that we have [bar the UK] the fewest handguns and semi auto rifles liscend in the EU.We have the highest criminal usage of both types in the EU!!

Interestingly, the various terrorist groups operating in Northern Ireland had no need to steal LEGALLY-owned firearms of any kind. The kind that THEY favoured, the AK and the Armalite, were not to be found within the civil population, at least the semi-auto versions, since 1988. The same went for handguns, which were rarely used, tttt. Most killings involving the use of a handgun were with firearms that were already illegal, or those recovered from dead or injured police officers, or, in one case, taken off the bodies of two British soldiers who were publicly beaten to death on live TV.

The almost unbelievably low level of use of LEGALLY-owned handguns being used in crime was pivotal back in 1997, when the government of Northern Ireland told Westminster to go **** up a rope when told to ban handguns in the wake of the Dunblane Massacre.

In any event, there are probably still way more handguns in UK than there are in the Republic, for the simple reason that if you ignore the rather odd long-barrelled handguns and pistols, you are left with tens of thousands of BP handguns. In our club alone there are probably more than a hundred. Sad to say, they do not appear in the Republic as they are all loose-loaders, or muzzleloaders, whether they are single shot or revolvers, and require either black powder or one of the numerous substitutes.

And percussion caps.

And lead projectiles.

But they are still handguns.

tac

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

Interestingly, the various terrorist groups operating in Northern Ireland had no need to steal LEGALLY-owned firearms of any kind. The kind that THEY favoured, the AK and the Armalite, were not to be found within the civil population, at least the semi-auto versions, since 1988. The same went for handguns, which were rarely used, tttt. Most killings involving the use of a handgun were with firearms that were already illegal, or those recovered from dead or injured police officers, or, in one case, taken off the bodies of two British soldiers who were publicly beaten to death on live TV.

The almost unbelievably low level of use of LEGALLY-owned handguns being used in crime was pivotal back in 1997, when the government of Northern Ireland told Westminster to go **** up a rope when told to ban handguns in the wake of the Dunblane Massacre.

In any event, there are probably still way more handguns in UK than there are in the Republic, for the simple reason that if you ignore the rather odd long-barrelled handguns and pistols, you are left with tens of thousands of BP handguns. In our club alone there are probably more than a hundred. Sad to say, they do not appear in the Republic as they are all loose-loaders, or muzzleloaders, whether they are single shot or revolvers, and require either black powder or one of the numerous substitutes.

And percussion caps.

And lead projectiles.

But they are still handguns.

tac

Difficulty getting arms ?

Neil Blaney, Charles Haughey, Captain James Kelly , 1970 arms crisis/trial ring any bells, and i presume exactly the same lark going on, on the other side

tac foley

I never implied that the various factions had any problems getting hold of illegal firearms. The many Irish-American 'Clubs' in the USA and others like the late Colonel Gadhaffi saw to that.

tac

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

I never implied that the various factions had any problems getting hold of illegal firearms. The many Irish-American 'Clubs' in the USA and others like the late Colonel Gadhaffi saw to that.

tac

Just goes to show how pathetic and pointless some of the rubbish ordinary sports shooters have had to endure in the past decade and again now, are. Its like the ptb are worried about a dripping tap onboard the titanic.

tac foley

I had previously been employed in giving evidence within the UK legal/justiciary system, and the one thing that was blindingly obvious to anybody with more than two brain cells to rub together was just how easy it was for somebody with criminal intent to obtain a firearm. One person of interest, interviewed while still in jail but awaiting his impending release, confided in the interviewer that no matter where he was in London, he was no more than ten minutes away from a handgun.

tac

Grizzly 45

This is what has come out of the triloge sofar. Not much going to really affect us here.Apart you can proably forget ,unless you have one now,owning a new semi auto EVER!.
Move ALL CF semi autos from B7 cat to A7 cat..IE prohibited weapons.

BUT grant excecptions for those who own them to keep them liscensed,and be able to sell,trade etc with people who have the same liscense. IOW a liberal grandfathering of what's out there...And avoiding getting smacked by Article14 of the EU constitution.

And let's re invent the wheel ...in an oval shape.. If it has a ten shot mag ,it is still a B7,but put a 20 plus shot in it it becomes an A7 prohibited gun ,UNLESS you are a sports shooter in a registerd club and "shoot regularly in competitions"
No given definitions on any of this whatsoever,nor will they give.

Now the complete fools errand...
Magazines over ten shots for ALL guns to become a liscenseable component part [21 for handguns or short arms].BUT if you have them[ both types] before this becomes law,you are fine...[HINT! Go ask Santy for early Xmas pressies or a 3D printer]

Usual stuff about deacts,and making it a EU standard Deact.

Mandatory health and head shrinkage tests for all gunowners irrespective of gun type.We SHOULD be ok on this in Ireland as we have,more or less,this in place,although that not to say it might be beefed up in the future,say in the next 5 years when this legislation will be up for review again in the EU and another piece of salami of EU gun owners might or will be cut off no doubt.

Five year gun liscenses to be the norm across the EU.[Can see that playing merry Hell in Germany:)]

Only slightly positive silver lining[although at this stage it might be just radiation!] in this mushroom cloud is the fact that the EU parliment and comission [?] Will NOT accept any of the "Idont like de look of that now"reasons or line of thought along those lines to ban anything on "looks like"

OH! And they finally dropped the utter charade that this is to make us all safer from terrorism.

In short,an utter cluster fuk,that does nothing except put another layer of beuracy' on us and doesn't stop the Hutches and Kinahan's,Mc Carthy's and Dundons,Abdul or Samoud from going about their busisness of killing each other or us when they get a fit of Allah.:mad:

This is how its shaping up in Brussels and as usual the big bullies of the EU[Germany,France,Italy,UK] are the ones pushing this.Especially France as they want it tidied up before the general election in France and before Malta[very pro gun] gets the presidency in Jan.

Its all about disarming us all piece by piece by the EU super state. One thing is for sure the EU is doing all it can to further put out the fire of exits by using a hose connected to the petrol storage tank with this kind of thought. Go ahead!You are about to pee off another 60 million EU subjects who will be only too happy to see the end of the EUSSR.

Ill let Mrs V Ford MEP spell it out

https://youtu.be/BBsU2nRO9p8. Let me make it clear we are not u-turning on the parliament position and sports shooters will be able to continue.

Read the key points below:

The third trilogue on the Firearms Directive took place on 15 November. The fourth trilogue is agreed for 5 December. This is a normal and expected procedure.

There is a great deal of similarity between the Council and the Parliament. The Parliament is demanding our key positions are met.

Regarding Category A

The Council and Parliament texts both agree that certain semi-automatic firearms when fitted with high capacity magazines are to be treated as Category A prohibited firearms but with special permissions for sport shooters.

There is agreement between the Commission, Council and Parliament that the exemption for sport shooters must work not just on paper but also in practice. The Parliament is pressing for this and we are making progress. Any concerns on the practical implementation of this exemption can be addressed to the Director in DG Grow of the European Commission.

Regarding Annexes, both the European Parliament and the Council have firmly rejected the Commission’s original language on resemblance. We will not accept prohibiting items based on what they look like rather than what they are.

Further discussion is required on the issue of semi-automatics converted from automatics, the Parliament have restated their desire to try and find a solution that is workable for the responsible legal shooting community and there is support from the Council for grandfathering in order to ensure existing legal holders can continue to hold their firearms. The EP is also pressing for an agreement where these firearms can be transferred, inherited and sold.

The Commission have said they are not prepared to accept responsibility for technical specifications on conversions of automatic to semi-automatic firearms under Article 10ba and the Council does not want this.

Deactivated Firearms

It is important that deactivation of firearms should be irreversible and ensure the firearm is inoperable. The European Deactivation Regulation introduced in April 2016 sets a single standard for deactivation but has raised many practical issues for legitimate holders of these items, including reenactors.

There is now a clearer understanding by the Council and the Commission of the issues faced by legitimate holders of these items and progress is being made on resolving implementing issues in the Deactivation Regulation. The Parliament is clear that the Expert Working Group on the Deactivation Regulation must have completed their work by early 2017.

Regarding deactivations before April 2016, the Parliament position is that firearms deactivated to an equivalent previous standard should still be able to be bought and sold and Parliament suggests that national deactivation standards which are equivalent to the aims of the new EU standard adopted should be recognised as such. The Commission have now taken this concern on board and are working on new language to enable this.

It is clear that the Commission will not be prepared to just rubber stamp all old deactivation standards so it will be up to each Member State to make the case for deactivations undertaken according to their previous system and the Commission to then approve on a case by case basis.

Authorisations
We are making good progress on agreeing language for special authorisations for reservists and other specialist needs - although this is not yet finalised.

The Parliament is pressing for its language for member states to have monitoring systems, which includes the assessment of relevant medical and psychological information in accordance with national law, and which may be on a continuous or non-continuous basis.

European Firearms Pass
The Council has agreed to include Category A weapons in the European Firearms Pass when holders have authorisations for them. This will improve the implementation of the pass.

We are all dedicating significant time towards finalising a text which works for legal holders of firearms and also addresses those loopholes and inconsistencies which have existed in the past.

Grizzly 45

Got a reply from the UKIP,albeit a canned reply...Which is better than 95% of Irish MEP's replies...


EU Firearms Proposals

Thank you for writing to Mr Etheridge on this issue. The Commission proposal has recently passed a vote in the IMCO committee despite the attempts from UKIP MEP's to block it. This now means that the proposal is currently in trialogue negotiations between the Parliament, the Commission and the Council before a final text is voted on in parliament.

We have received many emails and letters of concern regarding this proposal and I would like to briefly outline the main issues that UKIP have with this proposal.

Firstly, the weapons used in the Paris atrocity, and more generally the weapons used in most terrorist attacks, are illegally-held weapons. Changing the law on gun ownership is therefore unlikely to have any significant impact on the availability of weapons to terrorists. Indeed the EU is clearly the problem, not the solution. There is extensive evidence that for example Croatia, which recently joined the EU, is a hotbed of smuggling - not only of arms, but also of money, drugs, people and even human organs. It has been said (and it is no exaggeration) that free movement of goods and people in the EU (and especially the Schengen area) has led to free movement of Kalashnikovs.

The problem is not that we have too little regulation, but that we are failing to implement the legislation we already have.

Secondly, so far as we understand it the UK already has some of the tightest firearms regulation in the world and this is confirmed in various statements from the Home Office. We do not believe that further legislation at EU level will make any additional contribution to public safety. In any case we in UKIP are opposed in principle to any extension of competences at the EU level.

I can therefore confirm that UKIP MEP's have, and will continue to, oppose the new EU Firearms proposal. Sadly, however, I fear it will be approved anyway. There is nothing most MEPs like more than a nice piece of gesture politics in response to public concern - whether or not their gesture has any practical effect. But the proposals are being driven forward by the unelected EU Commission which is desperate to distract people from the consequences of freedom of movement.

Kind regards,

Martin Day

Accredited Parliamentary Aide
Bill Etheridge MEP
European Parliament
Rue Wiertz 60 03F146
Bruxelles 1047
07913 599697
+32 22 84 74 53

gunny123

Grizzly, i know you put a lot of hard work into the campaign against this crap, but in truth once something like this is announced, i reckon its nearly a done deal behind the scenes, its only a veneer of democracy. Hence the rise of far right/left, brexit, trump etc. People feel completely disconnected from politics, i know i do.

Edit : even more disconnected after reading this, http://www.thejournal.ie/bertie-ahern-fianna-fail-3110351-Nov2016/

Grizzly 45

Gunny,et al..
It ain't over till the fat lady sings,and until this is on paper and a EU directive,I'll keep going.As will no doubt thousands of of other Gun owners across the EU. While it might not affect us much here,right now.It doesn't mean that in five years time that the EU wont be back for something else.Like peoples bolt action "sniper rifles" or "Combat pump shotguns" in the next salami slice.
So even if we do" lose" this time round,and after giving the EU a major head ache this time round.What will we be like in 5 years time? Already some EU politicans are referring to FirearmsUnited becoming the "European NRA".Which when you think of it,for a utterly unknown group on Face Book this time last November,set up by a polish lad has grown into a European wide cyber movement that is still getting regular donations from shooters to the tune of over 100k from across the EU from gun owners and has addressed MEPs in Brussels,got a petition[still open] with close on 400 thousand signitures has provided the entire impact statement to Brussels ,that Brussels has steadfastly refused to do on this issue and consistently sucked figures and numbers out of the air.

Provided and researched by a most remarkable and fiesty woman, Katja Treibel,who did all this while being treated with chemo thearpy this year and while running a gun shop in Berlin,[Treibel gmbh Spandau]. From people literally giving up their thousands of hours of spare time to petition their EU MEPs and writing over a thousand printed and mailed letters to MEPs,they finished at 05.20 this Monday morning ,then proably went off to work like good Germans.
I'm embarrassed to think I moaned about losing my Sunday shooting in the face of that dedication.:(
To being supportive and smashing a proposed German ban on semi rifles being used for hunting.To getting together two of the most diverse groups and getting them to work together namely German hunters and sport shooters. A grouping I thought would never ever meet.They make our sports colation look like happy fammlies.
They were moving and shifting long before paid lobby groups that we subscribe to here were even aware somthing was happening then three week later they joined the party.

Do these people sound like they quit at something like this,or accept this is the end of it all?

Over the next few weeks,watch what happens in the Czech republic,Hungary,Poland and Switzerland on this..It might be a loss for us but what will it be for the EU?The East blocs who really know what its's like to live under gun controlled dictatorships,are going to freak about this.As if they arent peed off already with the EU and refugees.

One thing 2016 should have taught us all is that there are NO more certainties in this life especially in the established political order of things in the West. Brexit,Trump and I reckon Le Pen and Italy in the next few months,and God help us Bertie and Tony Blair looking at getting back into politics....Anything is possible.As the song goes "We aint seen nuthin yet!"

gunny123

The problem is though Grizzly, the EU etc know what they are doing is unpopular and something nobody asked for in the first place, but they have this lefty liberal characteristic of "knowing whats right", even if they face severe opposition in the process and even if they don't have a clue about what they are meddling in. A bit like Merkel chucking open the borders of germany (and by extension the whole of mainland europe) and accepting over 1.2 million undocumented young males as refugees, no one wanted that, a huge amount of people were objecting to it (AFD went from 1% to 20% in the polls), eventually when things looked grim she finally stopped it.

What surprises me is the french and the germans, they are really into their shooting sports, and the french are very concious of their liberties and rights, i thought they would have said they would simply refuse to ratify any of these laws.

Grizzly 45

Yes ,you would think better of the French and Germans.Both civillians are doing everything they can to tool up with anything that goes bang.
Amazing how many people are suddenly intrested in doing the hunting liscense in Germany these days...:rolleyes:

However when you apprently get to Brussels the air must become super statified as you then have NO accountability to your native country that sent you there in the first place.[See Phil Hogan in our case!]It is actually the French & German MEPs of the leftie,socialist green bloc that are driving this..Especially the French! They want this done and tidied up before the general election in France and before Malta takes over next month for presidency.

The whole thing is that this is sowing further dissent and unhappiness with the entire EU project and is going to cause even more serious kickback.So they might win on this type of EU gun ban.But at what cost?Do you think I or anyone else in this project will ever vote for anything pro EU ever again,or even consider it worthwhile electing MEPs that like in 98% of our lot ever bother to actually attend or repersent Irish groups??Whats the point if they are over ruled by an unelected by anyone on the street council of 12 beuracrats and we have an unfireable EU president who is a rip roaring alcoholic??
Watch the Swiss,already they are grumbling this morning about getting onto a referendum footing to chuck the Shenegen.They have nough shooters ,both civillian and military to do this too,via petitions and dierect democracy.How will the EU respond that if the Swiss quit Shenegen because of EU gun contol laws?
The EU might win this battle,but in the end it will destroy itself in a war with its poupulation.

Nice article on how things stand.
http://www.gunsweek.com/en/current/articles/eu-gun-ban-our-way-thermopylae