MORE crap on the way.

Grizzly 45

Well,if we are starting to pee them off ,that means we are getting under their skin.
https://firearms-united.com/2016/12/28/intense-lobbying-firearms-united/

yubabill1

yubabill1 wrote: »

I'm sure everyone here has noticed how similarly the EU proposed legislation has played out to the Irish debate we had just before.

The only difference I can see on the macro level is the lack of newspaper articles supporting the authorities' position, unlike the DoJ/AGS campaign here.

I mean, I didn't see anything much in the media following Juncker's "evil gun lobby" press release.

Spoke too soon?

Anyway, social media like FB, twitter is where it's happening and since the us election, with the failure of msm propaganda/polling, the politicians know they ignore social media at their peril.

Grizzly 45

That's apprently why President Trump uses Twitter a lot.MSM can't twist his words then to whatever meaning they want to put on them.

Grizzly 45

https://firearms-united.com/2016/12/31/open-letter-monsieur-jean-claude-juncker/

Lars Henriksson and Peter Thorsell, Two Swedish coppers of the same school our previous ballistic expert seems to have gone to:(. [Imagine trying to ban the SAKO TRG bolt action because it has picitinny rails on it..thus making it a military sniper rifle in their eyes.]

Reason I'm bring up their names is ,I seem to remember back in 2006 to 08 A Swedish name showed up as well here in Ireland ,and I'm damn sure it was one of those two who "advised" the DOJ/AGS,Aherne gang on the proposed firearms legislation.:mad:
I have tried searching the archives and back posts here on boards,as I am full sure they featured in our discussions,but with no success...MODS . Any feature on boards here to type in a name and get a hit on such?? Or do the names ring any bells to anyone in an irish context?

Sparks

Standard search function works for that Grizzly, but it turns up no hits in the shooting forum or subforums for those names.

Grizzly 45

Would the search still work on the press cuttings Sparks?Or has that been permantly deleted?

Sparks

It wouldn't, but I searched there with no hits either Grizz.

tac foley

The problem is with our antagonists that you can never be sure that they are using their real names.

tac

gunny123

Have you asked on the firearms united facebook page grizz ? Someone from their own country are sure to have the dirt on these coppers.

Grizzly 45

Oh they have dirt aplenty on them Gunny.Imagine our former "inspt Google" being taken dead seriously by both court and police and with a political agenda.
What I am trying to establish is did either of them have an Irish connection into our legislation?
As it would show how much meddling this person may have had on a national level with us,and it would be of benefit to our Swedish friends to show what sort of malign influence they had on another countries legislation.Basically its a build intell on our opponents,EU wide.

yubabill1

Some dirt on Juncker just in;

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/749265/Jean-Claude-Juncker-blocked-EU-s-tax-dodge-curbs-Luxembourg-PM

tac foley

First we have Jean-Luc Stassen, director of the Liége Proof House, charged with ahem, certain 'flexibilitées' with regard to the so-called destruction [or not] of around 200 FULLY AUTOMATIC firearms...

The director of the firearms proof house of Liège, Jean-Luc Stassen, has an arrest warrant issued against him.
The statement was made by the Prosecutor’s Office of Liège Tuesday afternoon. The man, suspected of falsification and use of falsification, as well as of misappropriation, declared before the justice system in the morning. He presently denies the charges.

The weapons proof house of Liège, as well as the residence of the director of this entity were searched Thursday. At least one weapon was found in these operations, stated Monday the Prosecutor’s Office.

These searches are a follow-up to police information provided. The judiciary suspects the man in his fifties of having altered the main firearms registry (RCA) to remove collectible pieces in order to then sell them on the black market.

The proof house is an institution of the Justice SPF in charge of the destruction of firearms seized by the justice system. Following the weapons law of 2006, the institution has been in charge of other tasks as well, including the neutralization of certain weapons.

And now, this news in the post above...

These are the people who are trying to take our guns away, right?

tac

Cass

When are people going to wake up and realise he is the Sepp Blatter of the EU.

Hold onto power at all costs, lecture us on what we should do, then have revelations like the above which show just what sort of person he is.

It'll never happen ,but the sooner we wake up to the need for an IREEXIT the better. Our politicians do as they're told, as all good dogs do, and ignore the open borders/free movement of people and goods (VRT on cars, etc), provide tax havens for big companies, refuse billions in tax. So why do we need the EU when our "leaders" use it as it suits?


That or give the EU commission an enema.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

When are people going to wake up and realise he is the Sepp Blatter of the EU.

Hold onto power at all costs, lecture us on what we should do, then have revelations like the above which show just what sort of person he is.

It'll never happen ,but the sooner we wake up to the need for an IREEXIT the better. Our politicians do as they're told, as all good dogs do, and ignore the open borders/free movement of people and goods (VRT on cars, etc), provide tax havens for big companies, refuse billions in tax. So why do we need the EU when our "leaders" use it as it suits?


That or give the EU commission an enema.

Never gonna happen while the IFA can get their members subsidies and grants and other free money from the EU. But frankly i feel the same about the EU as you do. Its a racket, and the rubbish that have been running Ireland for the past 30 years have been filling their boots with handy well paid jobs when they fcuk up or become too unpopular here. Case in point, Phil Hogan :rolleyes:.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/hogan-entitled-to-337-000-in-first-year-as-eu-commissioner-1.1863745

Grizzly 45

You want to see a racket??
Watch the documentary "Atlantic" ,and see what sort of an utter ****e deal we as a nation have got on our fishing, oil and gas.It's in the leauge of the red indian tribe that sold Manhattan island for a bunch of trade blankets,beads and a musket or two...:mad:

The EU has taken over 650 BILLION tonnes of fish out of our waters since 1975..There is not one Irish person working on any oil or gas rigs off our coasts,and hasn't been since the 1990s,[watch the documentary to find out why?].In total we got in EU loans since we joined something like 65 billion euros[All paid back with intrest].

So someone tell the IFA that the EU gravy train is over and loans for anything days are over and done. We are forking in to the EU now so Pavel and Jens out in the East get their chance at the grant game.
Simply put,we have been duped as a nation,and are now going to get another arse kicking when Brexit happens...Our main trading partner is going to leave the EU club and our "govt" is acting like this is nothing to worry about and can only negoiate when Brexit happens,while we get an ultra French federalist to negoiate on our behalf.:eek:

In short,it is really time to go from the EUas well.Better we try and navigate as a nation on the stormy seas of international affairs,than swop the crown for the harp and croziers,and then for the circle of stars.

Grizzly 45

http://www.gunsweek.com/en/current/news/firearms-united-opens-2017-full-swing.

Nice to see that the Swedish IPSC range that are hosting the 2017 IPSC champs are donating their entire takings to Firearms United.!:eek::D:D

Grizzly 45

Have been asked by a few folks recently.What does it cost to join Firearms United ?Answer NOTHING,NOWT ,NOT A RED CENT!
It is an entire voulenteer organisation run by gun owners like you and me, from all over the EU who are peed off with the shoddy treatment of the EU elite on the matter of shooting and what types of guns we may or may not own. NOT ONE CENT is spent on anyone's salaries.There are no fancy offices in Europe or Brussels,and anyone can see quite clearly where their money is going and on what.It survives wholly on donations and now soon from selling bits and pieces from the FU shop..So if you want to support a worthy organisation that is fighting on the EU level,go buy a Tshirt or coffee mug..It is all going to a worthy cause to fight for your EU rights as gun owners.

https://firearms-united.com/2017/01/04/iamthegunlobby-onlinestore-now-open/

Cass

The one tiny glimmer of hope that has come from the EU gun grab is that the commission has been forced to back down on what they want to ban because everyone else pointed out the stupidity of trying to ban a gun that looks like another one even though they do not function the same. IOW looks do NOT equate to functionality.

I'm hoping beyond hope that Fitzgerald will wake up to what the rest of Europe already knows. I mean the Government are great at following their EU masters on everything else so this should be no different.

Also similar guns are already licensed here. I for one would not tolerate the "idon'tlikelookofit" excuse. However i do understand what you're saying.

cavan shooter

I remember a good few years ago I had a Bennelli M2 Super 90 and boy did I get the how did you get that licensed look.tuened heads at flapper shoots.

yubabill1

From Savage MSR Thread (didn't want to hijack)

Cass wrote: »

The one tiny glimmer of hope that has come from the EU gun grab is that the commission has been forced to back down on what they want to ban because everyone else pointed out the stupidity of trying to ban a gun that looks like another one even though they do not function the same. IOW looks do NOT equate to functionality.

I'm hoping beyond hope that Fitzgerald will wake up to what the rest of Europe already knows. I mean the Government are great at following their EU masters on everything else so this should be no different.

Also similar guns are already licensed here. I for one would not tolerate the "idon'tlikelookofit" excuse. However i do understand what you're saying.

The whole attitude to firearms goes beyond looks I'm afraid and it's growing in the Western world:

I have a permission adjacent to an industrial estate and it's a dawn-only job, but one morning as I crossed to the gate I noticed a girl with a toddler. As I was passing - reasonably far away - I heard something and it was obvious that it was addressed to the kid, not to me:
"Keep away from the bad man."

You see, we see ourselves as one thing, but others see us as something else.

A good example here in Ireland - we see ourselves as unimpeachably good and compliant citizens because

(i) we surrendered our firearms in 1972 (in the hope the situation would resolve and the firearms would become available once again)

(ii) there are relatively few legally-held firearms used to criminal ends

and because (iii) we are now vetted by AGS etc.

BUT it is an irreparable slight on our character every time a murder is committed with an illegal firearm.

cavan shooter

There is a fundamental problem with the Nanny State approach to risk. The buzz word is ban. If you ban ladders people don't misuse ladders and fall off, if you ban guns then only bad people have guns, or to take it further ban lamping of foxes at night then anyone out lamping foxes is poaching deer. Increase the penelties for drink driving.....no go out and actually catch the ****ers.

What banning does is make the live of legislators and enforcers very easy.

We seriously have to wake up to this in Ireland over Christmas I was trying to get lads on board and really got despondent I got the feeling they didn't care and that's our problem we don't have a united front.

Grizzly 45

The"Idontlikethelookodatnow!"excuse is well and truely dead on both national and EU level.The only possibility is that they try and ban it under the potential to take more than 10 shot mags as we dont have IPSC here.But that makes it intresting for residents who fo compete internationally.However if the gun comes issued with just a ten shot mag from the factory.Its still a CAT B and still liscenseable.Nothing stopping you from buying a whole bunch of 10 shot mags either and a roll of duct tape either should you need that amount of ammo in a hurry.The only way wewill get this impasse moved is someone is going to have to stick their head a above the parapet and apply for one and so the court routine to challange the law.
Unfortuneatly it seems this is the only way of getting things done here.

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The only way wewill get this impasse moved is someone is going to have to stick their head a above the parapet and apply for one and so the court routine to challange the law.

As it currently stands there is no ban or prohibition on licensing one.

The only issue stems from the Minister's statement that she will instruct a review at a future date with a possible view of restricting licenses like the handguns. As she made this statement a year or more ago it can be applied retrospectively to that date.

So in effect she has "banned" them without banning them as no one wants to take the chance they will get the gun only to loose it at a later date.

So with no legislation, SI, etc. she has effected a ban. However as things currently stand with the current legislation they can be licensed.

Cass

I've moved a few posts from this thread to here as it's better suited.

Cass

yubabill1 wrote: »

A good example here in Ireland - we see ourselves as unimpeachably good and compliant citizens because

Because we get outraged and then sit back and say "sure i can't do anything about it". We are far too meek and willing, as you rightly said, to please others even to the detriment of ourselves.

(i) we surrendered our firearms in 1972 (in the hope the situation would resolve and the firearms would become available once again)

Ah yes, the temporary custody order. More a case of give us your guns or we'll take them. Thanks for the guns, now we're not licensing them ever again so piss off.

(ii) there are relatively few legally-held firearms used to criminal ends

Never let the truth stand in the way of a good lie. Look at Chief Superintendent Fergus Healy. He said they cannot prove legally held firearms were used because they are not recovered. I mean seriously, what person with an IQ above a glass of water at room temperature can not see that for the nonsensical, unprovable, cop out that it is?

cavan shooter wrote: »

What banning does is make the live of legislators and enforcers very easy.

If they came out and just banned them, paid the compensation, then that would be the end of it. No vagueness, "illegal" banning/temporary caps, etc. Butt they don't. They seem to purposely go out of their way to make what should straight forward as complicated as possible.

.......... I got the feeling they didn't care and that's our problem we don't have a united front.

They don't. Even when it's firearms they own the majority are disinterested or more accurately as i've said above are outraged, but not enough to do anything about it.

In over 40, 50 years there has never been unity and there will not be when you have people in control of associations to end runs and whatever they want rather than what is best for the sport. Ala the sport coalition.

Cass

Funny this comes up now.

There is a discussion on Facebook about a lad looking to get one. The amount of people telling him they're banned, cannot be licensed, etc is staggering.

This is the danger of what the Minister has done. The seed of doubt has grown and now people are convinced they are banned when in fact it's perfectly legal to license one.

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

Because we get outraged and then sit back and say "sure i can't do anything about it". We are far too meek and willing, as you rightly said, to please others even to the detriment of ourselves.

As Tomaz Sepian said at the FU conference in Nov "Gun owners are the only minority group that are the most openly mocked and reviled and attacked with impunity ." Its really time that we come out of the closet so to speak and go on the offensive about this. We have to call people out on their comments like gun nuts,gun fethistists, bambi killers etc.This is the age of "tolerance and inclusiveity" so use this against them.We have NOTHING to be ashamed of,we are the most vetted and probed and harrassed bunch of people in this country when it comes to perusing our sports.so why should we be treated worse than criminals?Its time to get alot more vocal and to out ourselves if we want things to change. That's why FU launched this #Iam the gun lobby campaign EU wide,to show the unknowing what kind of people actually shoot and own guns and that we don't have horns&tails on us.

Ah yes, the temporary custody order. More a case of give us your guns or we'll take them. Thanks for the guns, now we're not licensing them ever again so piss off.

A fine example of kicking the can sofar down the road...Did no one in successive Irish govts EVER think of what would happen one day in NI win, lose, or draw that the situation would be resolved and this personal property would have to be returned or sorted out somehow? Now the govt is stuck forever ,like the dormant bank accounts with holding on to this stuff,being gaurded by both army and AGS on your and my taxpayers dime,taking up army storage space,just in case some long lost relative shows up from wherever with a ticket fro great great great grandads civil war Webly.

Never let the truth stand in the way of a good lie. Look at Chief Superintendent Fergus Healy. He said they cannot prove legally held firearms were used because they are not recovered. I mean seriously, what person with an IQ above a glass of water at room temperature can not see that for the nonsensical, unprovable, cop out that it is?

Yeah,try and overawe us with the power and authorithy of rank and uniform..Doesn't wash anymore in 21st century Ireland.Especially with the strictest gun laws in the EU and you have drug gangs shooting up hotels with AK47s dressed up as Garda ERU.Go on outta that now!

If they came out and just banned them, paid the compensation, then that would be the end of it. No vagueness, "illegal" banning/temporary caps, etc. Butt they don't. They seem to purposely go out of their way to make what should straight forward as complicated as possible.

A case of wanting your kayak and eating it.Ban stuff but don't have to pay compo,as that might open all sorts of worm filled cans in the state affairs. Especially as Brussels laws are very clear on these matters which we must obey,when it suits ,to the letter.So an "Irish solution to an Irish problem"methodik is employed here.

They don't. Even when it's firearms they own the majority are disinterested or more accurately as i've said above are outraged, but not enough to do anything about it.

Unless it is right on thier doorstep,then all stops can be pulled out and anyone else can be fed to the wolves to save "their" little part of the sport.Unfortunetly we also have a bunch of FUDDS who contribute their dislikes and misinformed prejudices to the discussion and because of the sageicty and precived wisdom their word carries alot of weight with the unknowing.
I do think this is changing slowly here too,and had great potential from the people of SC,but it was the leadership that was faulty in there,as proven by facts and events."No such thing as bad men,just lousy officers."[Gen Geo Patton?] The only to sort this is new brushes sweep clean in all our organisations.

In over 40, 50 years there has never been unity and there will not be when you have people in control of associations to end runs and whatever they want rather than what is best for the sport. Ala the sport coalition

.

NAILED IT! Term limits are the only to go with politics in any shape or form.

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

Funny this comes up now.

There is a discussion on Facebook about a lad looking to get one. The amount of people telling him they're banned, cannot be licensed, etc is staggering.

Whereabouts on what page Cass?

Grizzly 45

Will be streamed live on FB and proably also available on Youtube.Its a weekend long event covering the effect on shooters,hunters ,gun collectors of the new EU legislation,so well worth a watch.Will post more details when I have the feeds eyc.

cavan shooter

I'm very pissed with the last minute of the FCP available to reead on the web page and I took it to one of our RGC lads.

We are being set up again and this time it's by our own....I am really annoyed by the "There is a shared concern about the competency of shooters angle....that minute needs to read "The Sports Coalition strongly disagrees with the notion that there is any issue with the competency of shooters...I am very much of the view its all pushed by people with a vested interest.
It is shocking. There is a meeting coming up in Cavan and they're going to get it from me.