MORE crap on the way.

yubabill1

12,000 illegal firearms seized in Spain:

Four men and one woman were arrested in in the towns of Olot (Girona), Liendo (Cantabria), Galdácano and Guecho (Biscay) following a lengthy investigation.

The criminal organisation was part of a network which bought unused weapons of war under the pretext of running a sports firm.

They then sourced spare parts, reactivated the guns and put them up for sale on the black market.

Once the decommissioned weapons were legally sourced, they were taken to a "sophisticated workshop" in Guecho and reactivated.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/spanish-police-seize-12000-illegal-9629386

Grizzly 45

This may be a Spanish " Mick Shepard" case
Turns out this may be a " For show and harrassment raid" by The Spanish cops for political purposes.
Apprently this guy and his daughter who were arrested was one of the bigger deact arms dealers in Spain who may have been made a "criminal by change of the law".
Apprently, deacts used to be something easily bought in Spain with your national ID card.But that changed post Aug 2011.So he suffered some serious busisness loss and apprently the Spanish cops have been on his case for awhile bullying and trying to conduct illegal warrentless searches etc of his home and busisness.
Also, The head of the European arms collectors who was at the Malta conference last Sat Stephen Petroni knows this guy personally and would have doubts as him dealing in reactivated arms.The head of FU Spain knows him and says the guy doesnt even like Muslims at all,so him selling the stuff of Jihadis is out the door.

Also,if anyone noticed the guns like,Astra STAR,LLama, Santa Barbara. Are all long defunct Spanish arms companies since the mid 1980s. He bought up their remain stock of parts and unassembled guns.So that proably explains the "component parts."

BTW 80 thousand euros... Apprently NOT AT ALL unusual for people to be keeping their cash at home these days in Spain.Bearing in mind they are the "S" of the PIIGS country,and they are more worried about their banks folding than we are.
Soon as I get more info ,it will be here.
Moral ... Do not belive anymore for one second what MSM reports on gun hauls like this as truth.We were expecting some kind of dirty tricks to be played sooner or later within the EU on this level to give the gun banners an excuse about de reactivated guns and to claim they were right all along.

Nekarsulm

And of course, the Spanish Police may count "firearms" the same way the Gardai do!

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

This may be a Spanish " Mick Shepard" case
Turns out this may be a " For show and harrassment raid" by The Spanish cops for political purposes.
Apprently this guy and his daughter who were arrested was one of the bigger deact arms dealers in Spain who may have been made a "criminal by change of the law".
Apprently, deacts used to be something easily bought in Spain with your national ID card.But that changed post Aug 2011.So he suffered some serious busisness loss and apprently the Spanish cops have been on his case for awhile bullying and trying to conduct illegal warrentless searches etc of his home and busisness.
Also, The head of the European arms collectors who was at the Malta conference last Sat Stephen Petroni knows this guy personally and would have doubts as him dealing in reactivated arms.The head of FU Spain knows him and says the guy doesnt even like Muslims at all,so him selling the stuff of Jihadis is out the door.

Also,if anyone noticed the guns like,Astra STAR,LLama, Santa Barbara. Are all long defunct Spanish arms companies since the mid 1980s. He bought up their remain stock of parts and unassembled guns.So that proably explains the "component parts."

BTW 80 thousand euros... Apprently NOT AT ALL unusual for people to be keeping their cash at home these days in Spain.Bearing in mind they are the "S" of the PIIGS country,and they are more worried about their banks folding than we are.
Soon as I get more info ,it will be here.
Moral ... Do not belive anymore for one second what MSM reports on gun hauls like this as truth.We were expecting some kind of dirty tricks to be played sooner or later within the EU on this level to give the gun banners an excuse about de reactivated guns and to claim they were right all along.

Something fishy about this, now you mention it - arms seizure rivalling the Eksund and not on Sky News etc.

Only the Mirror, Express and RT covering it on foot of Europol press release.

2 people released on surrendering their passports.

This story is aimed at MEP's and reading the comments sections around the story, Joe Public could care less about firearms law.

Best to let this story stew in its own juices and collect hard facts around it for the parliament when the time comes IMHO.

Grizzly 45

Aaaannnnndddd...Yep a harrass and show raid!!!!

From the head of the Spanish FU chapter.

Regarding the operation it seems is a big show, all the operative came from Madrid, from a specialized group of CNP (National Police) that did not contact with Guardia Civil (in charge of gun control). It seems they want to be the queens of dancing party. Why? Because an EUROPOL member was with them, all the operative group made selfies with the europol member and firearms. The judge declared secret of summary for a month, we do not have data at the moment. All the firearms are deactivated except two or three no legal cane guns personal property of Jesús (collectibles).

Just a note...the Police did not know was a legal dealer till after the search warrant....incredible. Something smells very bad in this issue, including the guy from EUROPOL....

My comment...Gun dealers.Be careful who you have a falling out with or pee off in the police force of your country.You are obviously major targets to be taken out by the police for anything.

yubabill1

Body clock out of synch.

Notable that Antonio Tajani elected president of Euro Parliament following a new coalition between his euro party, the EPP and Marian Harkin's party, ALDE.

This coalition beat the Socialists candidate, who were previously in control with Martin Schulz as President.

Being reported as a move from the Left to the Centre-Right, with a mission to counter anti-EU sentiment.

Centre-Right should mean a bit more accommodation towards shooters.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38656248

Grizzly 45

According to the Italians...He is no better or worse than Schulz.Typical anti gun Italian politican according to them.:(

Grizzly 45

https://firearms-united.com/2017/01/17/guilty-until-proven/

BattleCorp

So far, more than 8,000 military weapons ready for sale have been seized, including 29 long arms, various short arms, several canons and a range of ammunition of differing calibres.

29 long arms, various short arms. :rolleyes:

I'm guessing that the gist of the thing is 29 rifles, a couple of handguns and 7950 spare parts and bullets?

Yup, that'd easily add up to the guts of €10million. :rolleyes:

If 8000 ready for sale military weapons were found, it would be the biggest story in the world for the past few days.

Grizzly 45

Passed of course in the IMCO meeting 24 in favour ,9 against, 2 abstentions.
That was to be expected at this point.

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Passed of course in the IMCO meeting 24 in favour ,9 against, 2 abstentions.
That was to be expected at this point.

Read the text of the current proposals on FU web.

The new amendments specifically allow member states to refuse to grant exemptions for Semi auto firearms when they become classified into Section A and they allow member states to refuse to allow anyone with said exemption travel to their country with said firearm.

They also allow member states to ban any type of firearm and refuse a firearms pass for same.

Grizzly 45

yubabill1 wrote: »

They also allow member states to ban any type of firearm and refuse a firearms pass for same.

That's been there for ever..But the trouble is under EU legislation is they now have to offer market value BEFORE the ban compensation under Article 14 of EUCHR.IOW none of this.Its only worth a tenner for your 5 grand SIG SA.
It all boils down to the category.Put a high cap over ten rounds in it and its Cat A.Put a ten round in it its Cat B.Going to be the most unworkable and ineffective legislation ever,and it is turning thousands of people against the EU.

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

That's been there for ever..But the trouble is under EU legislation is they now have to offer market value BEFORE the ban compensation under Article 14 of EUCHR.IOW none of this.Its only worth a tenner for your 5 grand SIG SA.
It all boils down to the category.Put a high cap over ten rounds in it and its Cat A.Put a ten round in it its Cat B.Going to be the most unworkable and ineffective legislation ever,and it is turning thousands of people against the EU.

What's new is that they are moving many semis into Cat A (prohibited) but with exemptions, which will be optional for member states.

There is also a clause instating regular 5-year reviews of the directive, the first beginning in 2 years.

Grandfathering is also optional for member states.

Yes, the compo may be based on pre-ban values, but there will be no need to ban when you grandfather, just like the centre fire handguns here. How many serviceable CF handguns will be licensed here in 20 years?

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=yubabill1;102418024]What's new is that they are moving many semis into Cat A (prohibited) but with exemptions, which will be optional for member states.

IF you want a greater than ten round mag or as they inaccurately put it a "loading device" that is.Otherwise it stays in Cat B.Remember the EU "Idontlikedelookodatnow" clause is gone and it cant be banned or moved to CAT A either because it "might be" able to take a greater than 10 or 20 round mag.

There is also a clause instating regular 5-year reviews of the directive, the first beginning in 2 years

.

And in that time we wil be stronger and more organised to hit back to show that this is utterly farsical anyway.Trying to ban boxes and springs that are out there in the millions is not going to work and will only push this stuff further onto the black market.
[

Grandfathering is also optional for member states.QUOTE]

With the right to buy,sell,trade or inherit to anyone in the same category anywhere within the Union.... How does stop "terrorism"??:rolleyes:
Wonder if that came thru what are the consequences for Ireland on this re CF handguns??


Yes, the compo may be based on pre-ban values, but there will be no need to ban when you grandfather, just like the centre fire handguns here. How many serviceable CF handguns will be licensed here in 20 years?

Still will be quite a few, the longer you have it liscensed,the less reason there is to refuse re apps.And unless the CS whether locally or whenever the new one and only CS in charge of restricted liscenses is installed wants to explain in court why he is refusing them,and willing to waste state monies in costs as well.. 20 years is quite a long time too,and maybe if our organisations finally stop arguing about what shade of brown the ****e is and start concerning themselves about things like this and maybe getting IPSC back here this will be a moot point. As for the EU watch the smart gun makers change within a two year period their products to fit in this new liegislation Even the classics will still be here.I finally found out how the Germans were getting semi auto stuff that falls under the war weapons act.They strip the gun down totally,replace specific parts with semi auto only parts versions that are out of spec to the select fire version,and then remarket it under a differrnt name.IE a Thompson ,becomes a" Neidermayer M1928" Looks like,feels like,has original bits,shoots the same calibre ammo,but is NOT a Thompson.As it has been rebuilt into somthing else.

yubabill1

Found this on twitter;

10 year study finds Aussie gun confiscations had no effect on homicide rate

https://twitter.com/DanielCasingena/status/827954480327098369

yubabill1

Just to say there are some things hidden in this directive apart from those already discussed, designed to strangle shooting sports;

-Directive proposes EU-wide ban on U18's getting an authorisation and

-An EU-wide ban on antique reproductions (black powder).

Plus, shooters get absolutely nothing in return for all the proscription.

Grizzly 45

Yeah,pity people like Petersoili and such will get it in the neck.Davide Petersoli is about the only one of the BP makers and community who has stood up to bat against this legislation.The rest and their organisations have been "Nothing to do with us..We're grand! Feck off!" Hmmm
Didn't a certain countries Olympic shooting disipline have the same attitude after a handgun ban,not too far from us awhile back? Think they just got their facilities back in the UK , somewhat?
Trouble with proposed gun laws ....Those that think they will be unaffected,usually get slapped the worst.:rolleyes:

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Didn't a certain countries Olympic shooting disipline have the same attitude after a handgun ban,not too far from us awhile back? Think they just got their facilities back in the UK, somewhat?

Not really, Grizzly45 - the only people allowed to shoot ordinary .22 self-loading pistols in MAINLAND UK are still members of the select UK shooting squad.

The other 140,000 of us can't even watch, as their only authorised range is kept locked up, either to prevent us climbing in and stealing their guns, or to stop them getting out and going on a murderous shooting spree.....yeah, right.

The rest of us who might just be interested in shooting a proper target pistol are left with nothing but the Free Pistol discipline and three, maybe four, VERY odd-looking single-shot pistols to shoot it with.

Plus the little matter of the 1500 - 2000eu cost of the thing.

Meanwhile, over in the North, things are pretty much the way they were prior to Dunblane........and they STILL have one of the lowest levels of the criminal use of legally-owned firearms of any country on earth.

tac

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Didn't a certain countries Olympic shooting disipline have the same attitude after a handgun ban,not too far from us awhile back? Think they just got their facilities back in the UK , somewhat?

Sure, if by that you mean they protested it at the time as strongly as everyone else, went on TV decrying it, lobbied against it for years, were one of the most visible points of protest in the general public's view, and recently got a small concession after years of lobbying...

tac foley

Yup, that small concession being that they no longer have to travel to Switzerland under armed guard in order to shoot their .22cal rimfire pistols...

Mind you, the armed guard business still applies here in mainland UK, and the pistols are still kept away from their owners until they arrive on the range to shoot them.

Meanwhile, gun crime in Manchester reaches a ten-year high.

As an aside, has anybody except us noticed that the increase in handgun crime is almost contemporary with the vast intake of Eastern European nationals into our respective countries? Not all are bad, of course, but the open borders, and the freedom to drive between countries without checking cannot be helping. One case I was involved in about ten years ago concerned a foreign national with twelve passports [ALL genuine, BTW] caught smuggling forty Czech Skorpion sub-machine guns into the UK. Not one had a serial number, but all were factory-fresh...

tac

yubabill1

tac foley wrote: »

Mind you, the armed guard business still applies here in mainland UK, and the pistols are still kept away from their owners until they arrive on the range to shoot them.

Meanwhile, gun crime in Manchester reaches a ten-year high.


tac

And here is a published scientific long-term study of suicide/ homicide before and after the 1996 Aussie semi auto rifle/shotgun ban.

I see 2 things in it

(i) Suicides by any other means spiked after the ban, while suicides by firearm declined briefly

(ii) Homicides by firearm remained higher than expected when compared to homicides by any other means, in the long term after the ban.

I take this to mean that banning legal firearms has zero effect on homicides by criminals.

http://www.sascv.org/ijcjs/pdfs/bakersamaraijcjs2015vol10issue1.pdf

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

As an aside, has anybody except us noticed that the increase in handgun crime is almost contemporary with the vast intake of Eastern European nationals into our respective countries?

I hadn't noticed it because there's no correlation.







The spike in violent crime happens before the rise in immigration takes place in the late 1990s (but immediately after the handgun ban) and once the police get pointed at the problem by the Home Office with the resources to tackle it, it goes into a decline that it's not pulled out of yet (and hopefully never will).

Also, the UK's immigration spike in the late 1990s came from India and Asia, not Eastern Europe.



And more than 50% of immigrants (56% to be nit-picky) were coming in for either a job they already had been accepted for or for a full-time university place they had already been accepted for. And most of the eastern europeans immigrating to the UK (by a huge margin, as with Ireland) were from Poland. That's Poland, the only place in Europe with lower gun ownership than Ireland.

You want a probable cause for the rise in gun violence in the UK in the late 1990s, it's not going to be immigrants. It's going to be drugs, and it's going to be British home-grown drug dealers. That's the usual cause for the larger spikes in the baseline.

Cass

yubabill1 wrote: »

10 year study finds Aussie gun confiscations had no effect on homicide rate

Shocker. :rolleyes:

tac foley wrote: »

Meanwhile, gun crime in Manchester reaches a ten-year high.

Again, shocker.

Any other rational person or group would in the face of such overwhelming evidence have to concede that gun bans simply don't work, but not our Governments. No they plod along blissfully content to ignore the overwhelming proof from numerous countries. Look at Chicago in the states FFS. Some of the strictest gun control in America and two weeks ago they have 61 murders in one week. That is a high on an average of some 30 - 40 per week and over 600 shootings per month.

tac foley

Sparks wrote: »

You want a probable cause for the rise in gun violence in the UK in the late 1990s, it's not going to be immigrants. It's going to be drugs, and it's going to be British home-grown drug dealers. That's the usual cause for the larger spikes in the baseline.

You don't have to be an immigrant. Visitors to UK, like truck drivers from Serbia, Croatia, Bulgarian Rumania, Turkey, Russia, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and so on, carrying untold numbers of arms, HAVE to be the reason for vast numbers of Eastern European firearms finding their way into UK-based criminal hands.

tac

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

You don't have to be an immigrant. Visitors to UK, like truck drivers from Serbia, Croatia, Bulgarian Rumania, Turkey, Russia, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and so on, carrying untold numbers of arms, HAVE to be the reason for vast numbers of Eastern European firearms finding their way into UK-based criminal hands.
tac

I think you'd find that you mean "the money in the drug trade in the UK is the reason for large number of illegal firearms being smuggled into the UK".

Unless those truck drivers are just very generous souls who think that everyone should have an assault rifle and they're distributing them for free...

gunny123

Sparks wrote: »

Unless those truck drivers are just very generous souls who think that everyone should have an assault rifle and they're distributing them for free...

Not quite, but i believe with any large drug deal, a box of pistols and ammo come with it as a sweetner. Also its only been a couple of weeks since a haul of 15 firearms were found in dublin. Not your rusty old sawn off scatterguns either.

yubabill1

Does anybody know whether any MEP's will be proposing amendments to this directive?

I think it's going to the council of ministers to be rubber-stamped before the parliament votes in March (not very far away now).

At the very least they should;

-Propose 20rd mags for S/A rifles in Cat B instead of 10rd

-Remove the O18 age restriction

-Remove the ban on antique reproductions

-Remove the 5-year reviews of the directive.

Grizzly 45

Things are being done behind the scene.
FU has employed two lobbyists who are at work and others of FU are meeting their national ministers and whatnot about this.And being taken seriously too.

In a nutshell
As it stands the main drives are to dump the CAT A/B nonsense of when a mag is inserted and get the mag capacity for CAT B moved to default 20/20 long and short arms.

.
18 is pretty much a default age for gun ownership in the EU,so Irl and UK would be an exception on this...Get onto your MEPs and TD if you want o keep this.

The five year review,if things go pear shaped,we might need this in five years when we are much better organised and hopefully established nationally in the EU,to review what sort of a disaster this is and to push to have things restored and repealed.

Move repros to CAT D.

yubabill1

Junker standing down in 2019.

Sunday Times says he received a snub last week when Merkel said a two-speed Europe is possible, referring to eastern countries who are refusing to bend to "ever closer union" - the position beloved of Juncker.

Seeing as how Juncker is president of the EC, which proposes legislation, including this half-cocked firearms directive, maybe the MEP's might be more amenable to our point of view now that he's a political lame duck.

You never announce your retirement in politics if you want to be taken seriously.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38944742

gunny123

yubabill1 wrote: »

Junker standing down in 2019.

Sunday Times says he received a snub last week when Merkel said a two-speed Europe is possible, referring to eastern countries who are refusing to bend to "ever closer union" - the position beloved of Juncker.

Seeing as how Juncker is president of the EC, which proposes legislation, including this half-cocked firearms directive, maybe the MEP's might be more amenable to our point of view now that he's a political lame duck.

You never announce your retirement in politics if you want to be taken seriously.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38944742

Great news, he came across as an arrogant sort of individual, and i think i am correct in saying it was Juncker that refused to negotiate with David Cameron when he went to Europe looking for a deal on Immigration/free movement of people. Leading directly to the brexit vote.