Bullet proof reliability

Lex Luthor

selous wrote: »

I rang a few Subaru Ireland times, wouldn't deal with me, first was when the car went bump, I was told send in an email with what happened, they didn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge it, I rang again to see if they received it, I was told we don't deal with the public, it's done thru your garage, I ONLY WANT TO KNOW DID YOU GET MY EMAIL, and it wasn't acknowledged, (No, I didn't shout, inside I was though)

disgraceful...!!!

CJhaughey

I would make it clear that you are going public with this, through a motoring journalist or a consumer rights organisation and publicise this issue more.
I really hate how importers think they can just fob people off with these kind of offhand comments when its a huge investment for most people.
I would have considered Subaru to be a reasonable sort of car but judging by these problems and the way they are being dealt with I would not buy one.

walus

It looks like Subaru are not helping themselves Selling cars in Ireland. Not only their bullet proof reliability perception gets seriously damaged with their first boxer diesel but now they are alienating the customers by their unusually unfriendly customer support. This plus the fact that Subaru cars in Ireland are seriously overpriced will ensure their sales will go south. What are they thinking?

cerastes

CJhaughey wrote: »

I would make it clear that you are going public with this, through a motoring journalist or a consumer rights organisation and publicise this issue more.
I really hate how importers think they can just fob people off with these kind of offhand comments when its a huge investment for most people.
I would have considered Subaru to be a reasonable sort of car but judging by these problems and the way they are being dealt with I would not buy one.

I had a similar kind of fob me off attitude with another importer, but to a much lesser extent, essentially I was told main dealers are independent franchises and the importer is just an importer and holds no power over the dealers, which seems to undermine the "you come to us for reliability, customer support/satisfaction and peace of mind" I might not be in a position to buy a new car but I know who I will avoid, ie main dealers, they seem to have a stuffy snobby air about them.

Lex Luthor wrote: »

disgraceful...!!!

It is but at least then op has informed us, its something to be aware of

Lex Luthor

cerastes wrote: »

It is but at least then op has informed us, its something to be aware of

My "disgraceful" comment is referring to the way he was treated

CJhaughey

Its strange to see a Japanese car importer behaving this badly.
Usually they are top of the class for dealing with issues like this. maybe because they are smaller they don't have the will or amount of cars to deal with the issue in a reasonable manner.
Toyota were replacing whole short blocks when they had oil consumption issues in the early VVTi models. Here cranks are going bang and they are stalling and not engaging with affected people.
Its really disgusting behaviour.

cerastes

Lex Luthor wrote: »

My "disgraceful" comment is referring to the way he was treated

I understood that's what you meant

walus

I do understand that the response from Subaru Importer is unacceptable. However don't you think that it is the dealer who should keep selous updated with any new development or when asked by him? I can sort of understand that the importer wants to avoid dealing with the customer as such. What I cannot understand is why dealer is not doing his job when it comes to customer support and after warranty services.

selous

popped in to see the dealer today, he had a surprise for me when I asked how the 5k estimate was broken up, he told me......, that I need a clutch and I said "and fly wheel I presume" emmm yes, because it was worn, exactly as it has been described here by Walus, (how surprised was I?) an extra E1200, so the repair will cost the exact same as one I seen advertised on website a few weeks ago, he advertised
RECIEPTS AND WARRANTY ON NEW PARTS.NEW INJECTORS,TURBO + CLUTCH/FLYWHEEL.JUST THROUGH NCT, FULLY SERVICED.RECIEPTS FOR OVER 6.000€
Is it a set price to rebuild?
Although, the turbo hasn't been mentioned on mine......yet.

walus

@selous what exactly are you supposed to paying for? Parts or labour, or a little bit of both. I'm not surprised he says that the DMF and clutch need to be replaced. I saw mine after 120k kilometres in non-turbo petrol Legacy. The bearing was about to pop and flywheel had too much play. The friction plate was still good though. I think Subaru uses Sachs dmf and clutch. The price he is quoting looks like for parts alone, surely he cannot be charging 1200 euros for a job that takes 5 hours?

selous

Yep, he said 1200 for clutch and fly wheel, the cost of clutch was 400 while car was apart, so the other is 800 for flywheel and fitting, (?)
the initial 5k is for some parts, (hoses, seals, gaskets) labour and the recon of the injectors, which is E1000.
I presume the usual labour charge will apply, E100per hour, (im in the wrong job)

Cee-Jay-Cee

selous wrote: »

Yep, he said 1200 for clutch and fly wheel, the cost of clutch was 400 while car was apart, so the other is 800 for flywheel and fitting, (?)
the initial 5k is for some parts, (hoses, seals, gaskets) labour and the recon of the injectors, which is E1000.
I presume the usual labour charge will apply, E100per hour, (im in the wrong job)

The clutch and DMF were replaced in my petrol Legacy 3 years ago, the dealer fitted an Impreza solid flywheel and clutch. The whole lot inc labour cost €1050 so if the OP is getting a new OEM DMF and clutch then €1200 sounds about right.

walus

I asked the lads on polish Subaru forum. They say that dmf+clutch is normally not a part of the deal and the owner needs to pay for that.
I had the DMF replaced with a solid/flexi-flywheel and a suitable clutch kit with it in my Legacy. While in petrol models is absolutely acceptable in diesels I would not recommend it - bearings in the gearbox do not like it too much.

Special Circumstances

walus wrote: »

I asked the lads on polish Subaru forum. They say that dmf+clutch is normally not a part of the deal and the owner needs to pay for that.
I had the DMF replaced with a solid/flexi-flywheel and a suitable clutch kit with it in my Legacy. While in petrol models is absolutely acceptable in diesels I would not recommend it - bearings in the gearbox do not like it too much.

Yeah the DMF on the petrol legacys is just a refinement thing to set them apart from the same engine with solid flywheel in Impreza/Forester. Different story with the DERV.

walus

A little off top...Now is seems that Subaru offers boxer diesel with CVT transmission. Hopefully such setup will be more reliable than with the manual gearbox. The new Levorg is nowhere to be seen in Ireland yet however. I like the car but knowing Subaru Ireland it will be way overpriced once it arrives. I'm also interested to see if and when the new turbo petrol engines 1.6 and 2l will be available - the latter in particular.

selous

I wont be finding out anyway, my trust in the brand has been shattered, you pay through the nose for a car which they trade on with their reliability, you get it serviced with their dealer as they recommend at E100p.h labour plus parts, these trained personnel notice nothing wrong with a car that ends up with terminal engine failure 2 months after, then ask for E6000 for the privilege of repairing it, something stinks about that. Yet a random stranger on the internet (no offence guys) can tell you in 1 mail what and how it happened and the expected mileage it will happen.
Surely to God a trained mechanic in the brand would know what to check if it's suspected that something goes wrong at a certain mileage. Or is it fcuk it, we'll get 6000 out of him in a little while when it goes tits up, rather than 1000 now.

Lex Luthor

walus wrote: »

A little off top...Now is seems that Subaru offers boxer diesel with CVT transmission. Hopefully such setup will be more reliable than with the manual gearbox. The new Levorg is nowhere to be seen in Ireland yet however. I like the car but knowing Subaru Ireland it will be way overpriced once it arrives. I'm also interested to see if and when the new turbo petrol engines 1.6 and 2l will be available - the latter in particular.

28k sterling for the Levorg. And they stick a CVT gear box in it. Do they actually want to sell them?

walus

selous it's pretty much how you described it. Subaru are a bit different car and they charge a fair bit extra too. In countries like Germany or even Poland the importer knows that to have a fair chance of selling them they need to offer something more when compared to other makes. In Germany Subaru for a good number of years were top of the list in terms of customer satisfaction. In Poland the importer sponsors and supports forum and organises training for track and off road. Even at premium prices there is an added value. In my personal opinion people in Ireland don't complain enough (completely the opposite to Polish who complain too much). The dealers just like builders in this country grew to a rank of almost gods. Surely they sell you a car but my god they offer nothing else. Even in tough recession times they did not improve on customer service and mind you times are looking much better for them now again.
Play it hard selous. I often hear people going on the radio for whatever problem they have got over being overcharged by their mobile/broadband provider etc. It always gets sorted quick after a little bit of bad publicity. Imagine only how something like that would hurt already slim Subaru sales figures? You have nothing to loose do you?

£27k for levorg is ridiculous. That will be 38k euros in Ireland I'd say. Who is going to pay this much for a small estate? Although I'm not a fan the Passat looks like much better value.

galwaytt

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The clutch and DMF were replaced in my petrol Legacy 3 years ago, the dealer fitted an Impreza solid flywheel and clutch. The whole lot inc labour cost €1050 so if the OP is getting a new OEM DMF and clutch then €1200 sounds about right.

It's not right as the engine is already out . There is zero labour as part of rebuilding the engine is removal/refitting of it anyway. Swapping a new part on the bench instead of a used one is no different

H.E. Pennypacker

galwaytt wrote: »

It's not right as the engine is already out . There is zero labour as part of rebuilding the engine is removal/refitting of it anyway. Swapping a new part on the bench instead of a used one is no different

I think that Cee-Jay-Cee was factoring in the additional cost of a DMF over solid rather than the cost of labour.

An OEM DMF & clutch kit from this specialist works out at 963 euro so I'd imagine that a Subaru dealer would charge that bit extra, otherwise there'd be no market for the specialist:

http://www.importcarparts.co.uk/parts?page=2&cat=96&sub=3421&sec=3422&var=0&dc=&gen=&searchKey=&searchPart=

walus

I assumed as well that 1200 euros was for parts alone. As galwaytt pointed out there should be no labour as the gearbox is out anyway and dmf was taken off the back of the engine too.
I used ICP in the past and they are very good - got a genuine clutch conversion kit for my legacy much cheaper than from the dealer.

selous

I see another one has gone belly up in another thread....ffs, what have I started. (2 weeks to go for mine, or so the man said). feckin E6ooo though, good time of the year too.:mad:

Colser

selous,seen as Subaru are reluctant to deal with the public(the people that actually buy their cars:rolleyes:) would you consider copying the info you have in relation to this been an obvious fault with this particular engine and emailing it to the dealer asking him to forward it to Subaru on your behalf?

6000e out of your pocket after you buying and servicing the car with the dealer is a joke imo,Id be fighting it all the way with them.

selous

I emailed Subaru Ireland today, with a link, so i'll see if they reply now, there's also a page on Facebook about the bogey engines, a guy who got no reply from anyone he emailed started he even posted a pic of the broken crankshaft.

Cee-Jay-Cee

selous wrote: »

I emailed Subaru Ireland today, with a link, so i'll see if they reply now, there's also a page on Facebook about the bogey engines, a guy who got no reply from anyone he emailed started he even posted a pic of the broken crankshaft.

What's the page called?

H.E. Pennypacker

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

What's the page called?

Guesing this one:

https://www.facebook.com/SubaruEngineCrankshaftBreak/

selous

Yep, that's the one, he has a few links to other unhappy customers around the world on it too.
I know Americans were waiting for this car when it came out, think I know why it never went there now, Subaru is a big seller and they do big mileage, methinks there would be big claims there too, being the U.S.

Special Circumstances

Any american who'd buy the DERV version of a Subaru or any passenger or light duty vehicle deserves what they get.
They have ZERO excuse to buy one under a regime where they are not punished for driving a petrol.
H6 3.0 petrol - now that's bulletproof reliability.

selous

Whats the road tax on that here???:eek:

galwaytt

selous wrote: »

Whats the road tax on that here???:eek:

€2350 pa or thereabouts..

selous

Finally got the car back, (so far so good) Paid the bill and asked about the warranty on the rebuild....
wait for it......
NONE.
There is NO warranty on the rebuilt engine, he said, Subaru don't offer the warranty because they supplied the parts,(not all of them) so if it goes tits up next week what happens...seriously..
Would consumer affairs have any advice on that or SIMI?

Toyotafanboi

I'd say he's misinformed.

selous

I hope so, I'll fire off another email to Subaru Ireland, although, they still haven't got back to me from last one.
If the garage put my car on the forecourt they'd have a warranty on it,
it's beyond ridiculous almost E6k and sod off if it breaks again.

walus

selous wrote: »

I hope so, I'll fire off another email to Subaru Ireland, although, they still haven't got back to me from last one.
If the garage put my car on the forecourt they'd have a warranty on it,
it's beyond ridiculous almost E6k and sod off if it breaks again.

That's b....x! You should be getting 2 years warranty for this work.

Colser

walus wrote: »

That's b....x! You should be getting 2 years warranty for this work.

I agree,even 12 months. It just doesnt make sense.How can they charge 5-6k for something and not stand over it?

Im not just saying it on here but I wouldnt have taken the car back on those terms,not a hope. My patience would have run out at that point and the gloves would be well and truly off. Madness on there side.

selous you are a much nicer customer than I would ever have been with the whole situation tbh.

selous

I would happily have taken 1 and a second non transferrable one, something tells me they don't want to see me back, except for the 1500 km check up.

walus

selous wrote: »

I would happily have taken 1 and a second non transferrable one, something tells me they don't want to see me back, except for the 1500 km check up.

selous could you list out things and parts that where fixed/replaced under this work? I'll use my sources to see what warranty would a similar job got in Poland. The fact that they give you none is ridiculous to say the least.

selous

Was chatting to a mechanic over the Christmas was telling him about my car and what happened, he seemed to know what happened, as the injectors were "fried" it was spraying diesel straight into the engine and stripping the oil from the conrod bearings dried it out and causing it to snap and why didn't they notice that in the oil change. How is it other people can tell me what happened to the engine, but the people who should have known "didn't." Still irks me.

walus

selous wrote: »

Was chatting to a mechanic over the Christmas was telling him about my car and what happened, he seemed to know what happened, as the injectors were "fried" it was spraying diesel straight into the engine and stripping the oil from the conrod bearings dried it out and causing it to snap and why didn't they notice that in the oil change. How is it other people can tell me what happened to the engine, but the people who should have known "didn't." Still irks me.

Were the piston crowns burnt out?
I also asked at the Polish Subaru forum and the dealer for the job like yours would normally give 12 to 24 months warranty - depending on the case.

dr.fuzzenstein

selous wrote: »

Was chatting to a mechanic over the Christmas was telling him about my car and what happened, he seemed to know what happened, as the injectors were "fried" it was spraying diesel straight into the engine and stripping the oil from the conrod bearings dried it out and causing it to snap and why didn't they notice that in the oil change. How is it other people can tell me what happened to the engine, but the people who should have known "didn't." Still irks me.

THAT is utter horseh*t right there. Unless the injectors somehow managed to relocate themselves into the crank casing. And you can quote that.
I have never heard such utter sh*te in all my life. That mechanic is either a liar or a moron.
And, well, you know, the injectors are SUPPOSED to spray fuel directly into the engine, it's their JOB! Aaaargh! I am getting pissed off just reading this.
My own car: 355k km, never been near injectors or anything else to do with the inner workings of my engine, power and fuel economy is still good, doing 49 mpg at the moment with mixed driving.

walus

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

THAT is utter horseh*t right there. Unless the injectors somehow managed to relocate themselves into the crank casing. And you can quote that.
I have never heard such utter sh*te in all my life. That mechanic is either a liar or a moron.
And, well, you know, the injectors are SUPPOSED to spray fuel directly into the engine, it's their JOB! Aaaargh! I am getting pissed off just reading this.
My own car: 355k km, never been near injectors or anything else to do with the inner workings of my engine, power and fuel economy is still good, doing 49 mpg at the moment with mixed driving.

I agree that the mechanics explanation for this sort of engine failure is very vague to say the least in this case. Fuel dilution of the engine oil is possible but in most cases a leaking injector would burn the piston head before the crankshaft goes bang. There is an inherent issues with crankshafts and DMFs in Subaru diesels and that is the fact.

@dr.fuzzentstein is your engine also flat four boxer?

dr.fuzzenstein

walus wrote: »

I agree that the mechanics explanation for this sort of engine failure is very vague to say the least in this case. Fuel dilution of the engine oil is possible but in most cases a leaking injector would burn the piston head before the crankshaft goes bang. There is an inherent issues with crankshafts and DMFs in Subaru diesels and that is the fact.

@dr.fuzzentstein is your engine also flat four boxer?

No flat 4, Ford 1.8 TDCI, but the principal remains the same. Ta re the oil dillution, but agree, there should have been other damage.
Would be interested to see pics of the damage, but I'm willing to guess that even if the dealer took pics, they won't be too eager to share them, since my guess would be they show an otherwise good engine with no signs of wear.

gctest50

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

THAT is utter horseh*t right there. Unless the injectors somehow managed to relocate themselves into the crank casing. And you can quote that. I have never heard such utter sh*te in all my life. That mechanic is either a liar or a moron........

i wouldn't go quoting anything if i was you



They could be leaking the "other way" - under the camshaft cover



vw version , dunno what way subaru diesels are

.

gctest50

ssssssssssssss

selous

walus wrote: »

Were the piston crowns burnt out?
I also asked at the Polish Subaru forum and the dealer for the job like yours would normally give 12 to 24 months warranty - depending on the case.

I think that's what the garage said too, that they had burnt, they cost almost E1000 to get reconditioned, I got no warranty on the rebuild either parts or labour, 1500km check up coming up soon,

selous

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

No flat 4, Ford 1.8 TDCI, but the principal remains the same. Ta re the oil dillution, but agree, there should have been other damage.
Would be interested to see pics of the damage, but I'm willing to guess that even if the dealer took pics, they won't be too eager to share them, since my guess would be they show an otherwise good engine with no signs of wear.

The parts were sent off as soon as engine was stripped to see if I qualified for the "goodwill gesture" from Subaru, It was only serviced 2.5month before it had a full Subaru service history, The garage said the injectors were burnt (I presume) and the conrod was broken, I can only take his word for that, (could have been crankshaft, as that seems to be more common, but why lie) 155000km is not much mileage for any engine to break.
If I was advised to use injector cleaner in it I would have, never liked using any additive in a car, just in case, but look how that turned out anyway.

selous

This is a kick in the ass.
Found it on scoobynet yesterday, his crankshaft broke in mid November, had it back in 4 weeks, mine took 8, goes to show the difference in customer care between here and U.K

H.E. Pennypacker

Subaru Ireland's response to a known issue has been very disappointing. I had a diesel Legacy and loved it but I wouldn't buy another Subaru given the lack of customer care that they've shown. A full Subaru service history in this country adds up to quite a bit of money spent in the dealership - you'd think that it'd buy you reliability and customer service.

Colser

selous wrote: »

This is a kick in the ass.
Found it on scoobynet yesterday, his crankshaft broke in mid November, had it back in 4 weeks, mine took 8, goes to show the difference in customer care between here and U.K

Have you sent this to your dealer and Subaru Ireland?

walus

Selous i think you soulu have enough to go on the radio or a lokal newspaper. I would seriously consider less friedly approach after how you have been treated. Everywhere else the owners with full service history are looked after and get a repair with warranty practically free.
Do you mind sending me a PM with who the dealer is? I like the new Levorg if I buy it one day I'll avoid that dealership at all cost.