Windows 10 November update 1511 - DO NOT INSTALL

Irish Steve

As of now DO NOT INSTALL THIS UPDATE, there has been some sort of mege screw up by Microsoft that has allowed an American only version of this update to be downloaded in Ireland, and the result WILL be a very unstable and BSOD liable machine.

I have just been on line with Microsoft for the better part of 2 hours, and right now, they don't have a solution, and with the way that W10 does updates, that means you are at severe risk of a compromised machine.

I will try and get back to this thread when I have more information, right now, my main concern is to stabilise this machine and protect all the applications and data that are on it, as it could mean a rebuild from factory, which won't be much fun.

ED E

Understand your pain, but I've updated several systems to it with no problems. If there really was a big problem they'd put the update on hold to prevent further installs but AFAIK they haven't.

testicle

Complete nonsense.

Irish Steve

ED E wrote: »

Understand your pain, but I've updated several systems to it with no problems. If there really was a big problem they'd put the update on hold to prevent further installs but AFAIK they haven't.

As of an hour ago, they didn't know there was an issue, but they for sure do now.

It is possible that it's specific hardware, so not all users will be affected, my understanding of it however is that it wasn't supposed to be released here yet, but somehow, it's slipped through the seive.

The issue I am seeing is a BSOD when saving files from the browser, and it's affecting edge and firefox, so that rules out the app. In addition, the information about the version is not being correctly updated, which confused the hell out of the M$ tech, especially when he found the KB install report that said it had installed, it didn't upgrade the version number, stuff like that.

I don't know if they are pulling it or not, but I do know that it's causing significant concern right now.

CatInABox

Working fine here.

Sounds like your hard drive is failing, tbh.

Cerco

I installed the update and it screwed up network access and kept aborting with errors. :eek:
Took hours to resolve. It appears stable now.
I would advise waiting before implementing the update.
I wish I could revert to XP.

Irish Steve

CatInABox wrote: »

Working fine here.

Sounds like your hard drive is failing, tbh.

Nothing wrong with the HDD, or the hardware, Microsoft are the people saying that the issue is with 1511,

And if it was hardware, how do you explain a completely different machine that was running 8.1 and updated to 10 today that did exactly the same except no BSOD crashes, due to different video card and processor. That in theory also installed 1511, but the system information has the wrong version number in it, which according to the tech rep is because it wasn't supposed to be installed on an "Irish" machine.

Fortunately, because it was moving from 8.1, it could be returned to 8.1, the killer with the 1511 update on 10 system is that it destroys ALl the previous system restore points, so if it fails for ANY reason after the update, there is NO way back to the earlier version of 10, other than restore a backup, or rebuild from ISO media.

That's NOT friendly, very few users I know do a complete back up of their HDD before updating, it takes too long to do, they might back up their personal data, and maybe their mail files if you are lucky, but the entire disc of maybe 400 Gb? Doesn't happen with many of the machines I see on a regular basis, if for no other reason than that it takes too darn long to do on a regular basis, and the other risk is that if they've only one external drive, and the backup crashes while it's running, where does that leave you?

I will be on the phone to M$ tomorrow morning to get this sorted one way or another, at minimum, I want a version of 10 that allows me to have control of MY computer again, so I can prevent it from updating things that are not stable. That is supposedly one of the things that is available with 1511 for "business" use, we'll see how that conversation goes.

Irish Steve

Another long call with support, and there are several things that have come out in the discussion.

The first is that having reverted the system to the previous build, (build 10240) which was the only realistic option, it's stable, so the issue is confirmed as being 1511 software related.

That said, what's come rattling out of the woodwork today is that Windows Update is not installing everything that it's supposed to, the tech (Philippines based) ran a diagnostic tool to see what updates were pending, and discovered that a whole raft of third party updates were in the pipeline, but Windows Update wasn't offering them, even though all the settings to offer third party driver updates are correctly set, so there were updates for some of the core hardware in both video and chipset that had not been installed.

Given the original issue first showed up as a video driver licence violation being reported, it is possible that the BSOD issue was caused by drivers not being compatible with the release, although I'd have hoped that the drivers were part of the release.

Either way, we have spent a chunk of time trying to diagnose why the drivers are not being offered / installed, and this is now an additional factor in the ongoing investigation, and the 1511 update is now no longer being offered to this machine, even though it's been downgraded back to the 10240 build version.

I suspect I won't get any more feedback on this issue, they won't contact me, because of the "Microsoft" scams that are ongoing, so I will have to contact them at some stage in the next couple of weeks to see what's happening with this.

It's VERY messy, and clearly not working the way it was designed, but how long it's going to take to resolve is anybody's guess

nc6000

Working fine here also on both my laptop and a tablet.

Riesen_Meal

No issues here either....

200motels

No problems here on 4 devices.

unkel

Most people reading this or replying here have been running 1511 for a week now, Irish Steve and probably another 40-50 million people worldwide too. If there was a serious problem with 1511, do you honestly not think we would have noticed by now?

And you don't even seem to be considering the possibility there is just something wrong with your local PC?

Baggirshorts

All good here too!!

Kev1nDonn

Only problem I had was changing the default of my excel files to PDF. Soon rectified. I understand Microsoft have been guilty of this problem before.

unkel

Kev1nDonn wrote: »

Only problem I had was changing the default of my excel files to PDF. Soon rectified. I understand Microsoft have been guilty of this problem before.

Aye, I've had that many times, with W8, W8.1 and W10. Sneaky way to get us to use their apps. Most annoyingly media players and browsers. As you say though, quick fix

Irish Steve

unkel wrote: »

Most people reading this or replying here have been running 1511 for a week now, Irish Steve and probably another 40-50 million people worldwide too. If there was a serious problem with 1511, do you honestly not think we would have noticed by now?

And you don't even seem to be considering the possibility there is just something wrong with your local PC?

What's wrong with my local PC is that Windows Update is not offering the third party drivers that have been updated, so there were 11 driver updates shown by the WUshowhide diagnostic routine that are not being applied by Windows update, including 2 that are very closely related to the original issue that made me contact the Microsoft support teams.

The Microsoft rep checked the relevant settings to ensure that third party updates were not being blocked, and after making sure of his facts, he has escalated this issue to a higher support level.

During our discussions (he was on the phone rather than just using chat) he confirmed that 1511 is not available to this machine at present, despite the machine being eligible for it, which means that it has been pulled from the update server that my machine accesses.

He also mentioned that there are a number of issues with 1511, they have been "busy" this week with them. the most common being BSOD on reboot after install, which has been difficult, as they can't log on to see what's happening if the machine won't boot, even in safe mode. He was very happy to have a machine with BSOD issues that would boot so he could review the logs and check settings on it, as it resolved some queries that were outstanding.

The machine is completely stable again having reverted to 10240, and I've been around computers of one sort or another for long enough to have a pretty good nose for the nature of the problems, and this issue is very much NOT hardware, if it was hardware, the tests and checks I've done over the last 36 hours would have given an indication of a problem, and we all know that there's no way we can do anything significant internally with Windows, no matter how much we might want to make changes, and before you come back with it, this machine is very much vanilla Win 10, without any user tweaks that might upset it, it was a deliberate decision to not make any significant changes, in order to provide a baseline machine.

douglasman

I upgraded to build 1511 last Monday and since then Ethernet only worked very intermittently. Did everything from re-installing drivers, deleting the ethernet from device manager and letting it rediscover itself, deleting registry settings, running netcfg -d which does most of the above automatically and nothing would solve the problem. Wifi worked fine all the time but it is just too slow. In the end, I backed up my data and clean installed an earlier build of Windows 10. All problems solved and now eveything is working perfectly again. There are some serious issues with drivers in Windows 10 Build 1511 and it just depends on your setup as to whether you hit those issues or not.

Irish Steve

douglasman wrote: »

I upgraded to build 1511 last Monday and since then Ethernet only worked very intermittently................
There are some serious issues with drivers in Windows 10 Build 1511 and it just depends on your setup as to whether you hit those issues or not.

Based on what came out of yesterday's nearly 2 hours of on line and phone call investigation, it would seem very likely that the issue is that 1511 is expecting a certain revision of drivers, but for whatever reason, the prior version is not updating those drivers, even though update knows about them being available. The rep I was on line with yesterday knew his stuff, I have no complaints in that respect, and he was very worried about the issue and has escalated it to higher response status to get a rapid fix in to the system, as it has the potential to break a lot of systems, and do real harm to users and the reputation of W10.

My suspicion is that the update doesn't check the drivers during the install, but uses what's already in place, and that's resulting in the system not being in a stable state, if a clean install is done, then it has to use the drivers that are in the package.

I will be following up with M$ in a few days, this is too big to be left hanging, it will be interesting to see what they have to say, if anything.

dunworth1

This thread made me laugh

DopeTech

Seems my ethernet is kaput too.

CatInABox

When I'm wrong, I'll put my hand up and admit it.

They've taken the November update down internationally.

Sorry for doubting you OP, I guess some of the stuff that has been printed in the media about Win10 just to get page views recently has probably made me jaded.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Aye, I've had that many times, with W8, W8.1 and W10. Sneaky way to get us to use their apps. Most annoyingly media players and browsers. As you say though, quick fix

Yep, I upgraded my system in work and noticed that my default browser had changed to Edge after the upgrade.

CatInABox

CatInABox wrote: »

When I'm wrong, I'll put my hand up and admit it.

They've taken the November update down internationally.

Sorry for doubting you OP, I guess some of the stuff that has been printed in the media about Win10 just to get page views recently has probably made me jaded.

Although I have to say, if they've intentionally pulled 10586 and are requiring all upgrades through Windows Update now (as said in the article), this is a serious retrograde step. As it will require an install of 10240 followed by a 3GB download and full upgrade to 10586.

CatInABox

Karsini wrote: »

Although I have to say, if they've intentionally pulled 10586 and are requiring all upgrades through Windows Update now (as said in the article), this is a serious retrograde step. As it will require an install of 10240 followed by a 3GB download and full upgrade to 10586.

It's hard to fathom the reasoning behind this, the only explanation I can think of is that they found a major intermittent problem with the media creation tool, one that couldn't easily be fixed.

They should at least come out and explain what the problem, and then try to fix it, even just for future updates.

Irish Steve

I suspect, based on some background comments from the rep I was dealing with the other day, there are too many users having BSOD issues after the install, which is preventing the M$ techs from getting in to the machine to even find out what's broken.

I also suspect that the problem that's causing this is that the earlier version of Windows update is not correctly handling the third party drivers that were assumed to be in place for 1511, which then causes problems.

I think it goes something like this. If you install 1511 as a new install, it goes through all the devices and puts the right drivers into place, so there won't be too many issues as such. However, my suspicion is that if you upgrade, it sees the device and that it's got the drivers installed, so doesn't do an update driver cycle in the same way as a new install, and the result is that 1511 is then trying to use the 10240 drivers, and the drivers that should have been previously installed by update during the 10240 cycle have not been installed, and that then borks 1511.

When the rep checked this laptop, there were at least 9 drivers that should have been installed, but were not, we were able to force update some of them, but the process is far from automatic, we had to go into device manager and force a driver update check, which solved some of the issues, but there's no way to force the system to update drivers for a network attached printer, and we spent some time trying to find out how to get round that, one program told us there was a driver update pending, and when we then went in to the device driver in print spooler, which was the only way to get at it, that told us the driver was up to date. He was VERY worried when he found that, in that while a missing printer driver won't take a system down very often, if at all, a missing video driver, or a missing chip set driver most definitely can and does cause problems.

The fall out for M$ from this could be significant, as it was being touted as "the release for corporate users", there are some new facilities in this release (for Pro upwards) to be able to defer or delay updates, which is important for corporates to ensure they don't end up with a dead system.

Clearly there are more issues with this release that could be tolerated, and it will have to have been a very high level decision to pull it, and that IS going to yet again do damage to M$ reputation.

I have worked with (and cursed) every version of Windows since it started, and the early version came on 11 floppy discs, so rebuilding it wasn't a hassle if it went up it's hole. I've just has to spend longer than I care to admit to getting an Acer Laptop on Vista back into stable condition, which meant a factory restore, followed by a nightmare number of updates, which took a LONG time, even on a fast fibre connection, and it was not a clean process, several times it's not done what it should have, and the end result, while it works, has cost a lot more time than it was probably worth, but an upgrade wasn't an option right now.

I didn't want to have to try and deal with the hassles of getting to grips with Linux, but I have to admit that I am wondering if I am going to have to bite the bullet on doing it, I'm seeing and hearing increasing levels of resistance and reluctance to move to W10 from a significant number of users, for all sorts of reasons, and this latest faux pas by M$ will not help at all.

The biggest complaint I am hearing is "It's MY computer, but I no longer have control over what's being done to it", and there are times and situations where forcing a user to upgrade is not convenient, especially for a business use laptop that can be moving all over the place, and discovering that it's starting a 3 hour upgrade 20 minutes before a flight is due to depart from a foreign location is not going to endear the user to M$, even more so if when it eventually does finish it then goes up it's hole and can't be quickly or easily recovered.

What we can be sure of is that there is a large team of people being told in very blunt terms "FIX IT, NOW", with the emphasis very much on the "NOW". It will be interesting to see how long it takes to do that, and to see what has changed when it does re emerge into the cold light of day

mrtom

Irish Steve wrote: »

I suspect, based on some background comments from the rep I was dealing with the other day, there are too many users having BSOD issues after the install, which is preventing the M$ techs from getting in to the machine to even find out what's broken.

I also suspect that the problem that's causing this is that the earlier version of Windows update is not correctly handling the third party drivers that were assumed to be in place for 1511, which then causes problems.

I think it goes something like this. If you install 1511 as a new install, it goes through all the devices and puts the right drivers into place, so there won't be too many issues as such. However, my suspicion is that if you upgrade, it sees the device and that it's got the drivers installed, so doesn't do an update driver cycle in the same way as a new install, and the result is that 1511 is then trying to use the 10240 drivers, and the drivers that should have been previously installed by update during the 10240 cycle have not been installed, and that then borks 1511.

When the rep checked this laptop, there were at least 9 drivers that should have been installed, but were not, we were able to force update some of them, but the process is far from automatic, we had to go into device manager and force a driver update check, which solved some of the issues, but there's no way to force the system to update drivers for a network attached printer, and we spent some time trying to find out how to get round that, one program told us there was a driver update pending, and when we then went in to the device driver in print spooler, which was the only way to get at it, that told us the driver was up to date. He was VERY worried when he found that, in that while a missing printer driver won't take a system down very often, if at all, a missing video driver, or a missing chip set driver most definitely can and does cause problems.

The fall out for M$ from this could be significant, as it was being touted as "the release for corporate users", there are some new facilities in this release (for Pro upwards) to be able to defer or delay updates, which is important for corporates to ensure they don't end up with a dead system.

Clearly there are more issues with this release that could be tolerated, and it will have to have been a very high level decision to pull it, and that IS going to yet again do damage to M$ reputation.

I have worked with (and cursed) every version of Windows since it started, and the early version came on 11 floppy discs, so rebuilding it wasn't a hassle if it went up it's hole. I've just has to spend longer than I care to admit to getting an Acer Laptop on Vista back into stable condition, which meant a factory restore, followed by a nightmare number of updates, which took a LONG time, even on a fast fibre connection, and it was not a clean process, several times it's not done what it should have, and the end result, while it works, has cost a lot more time than it was probably worth, but an upgrade wasn't an option right now.

I didn't want to have to try and deal with the hassles of getting to grips with Linux, but I have to admit that I am wondering if I am going to have to bite the bullet on doing it, I'm seeing and hearing increasing levels of resistance and reluctance to move to W10 from a significant number of users, for all sorts of reasons, and this latest faux pas by M$ will not help at all.

The biggest complaint I am hearing is "It's MY computer, but I no longer have control over what's being done to it", and there are times and situations where forcing a user to upgrade is not convenient, especially for a business use laptop that can be moving all over the place, and discovering that it's starting a 3 hour upgrade 20 minutes before a flight is due to depart from a foreign location is not going to endear the user to M$, even more so if when it eventually does finish it then goes up it's hole and can't be quickly or easily recovered.

What we can be sure of is that there is a large team of people being told in very blunt terms "FIX IT, NOW", with the emphasis very much on the "NOW". It will be interesting to see how long it takes to do that, and to see what has changed when it does re emerge into the cold light of day

5 Settings You Must Check After Windows 10 Fall Update:



http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-settings-must-check-windows-10-fall-update/

Irish Steve

Thanks for that link, it is indeed VERY important to check some of the things that Microsoft are doing behind our backs.

The more I see of their arrogance and incompetence, the less I like them, and I've not been a fan of Microsoft for some time now, the total cost of ownership is becoming increasingly unacceptable.

CatInABox

mrtom wrote: »

5 Settings You Must Check After Windows 10 Fall Update:



http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-settings-must-check-windows-10-fall-update/

Turns out these settings being lost are the reason why the update was pulled, and they're now offering 10586 through all download methods once more. There's also an update that restores those settings for everyone that didn't already change it back.

See here.

Irish Steve

YMMV, but the revised update is still causing huge problems on some machines, I reinstalled it on the Acer a few days ago, and had to remove it for a second time within 24 hours, as the updated version had even more issues than the original release.

BSOD issues, which are almost certainly driver related, and there's no easy way to find out which driver it is that's causing the problem

Microsoft Bluetooth mouse is not working, it has to be re connected after each boot, and even then, it won't always connect correctly. If you go to the web page for the device, the link given is for Win 8.1, which is not a lot of help for W10, and if you download the latest driver to reinstall it that fails with an error message that it's older than the driver that's in use.

The Broadcomm WiFi is unstable, and loses the connection on a regular basis, almost certainly driver related, as it's completely stable on the previous version.

The support team at Microsoft had no ideas on why, or how to resolve the problems, other than to revert to the earlier release again.
For a release that is supposedly the corporate user version going forward, this is a pretty damning indictment of just how arrogant, and bad, the management and developers at Microsoft have become.

Given that some of my users are mobile, and can't be waiting for their machines to update at Microsoft's whim, W10 is a non starter for them, imagine trying to get through Airport Security with an open Laptop that's displaying the "updating, do not power off" message. Not going to happen, and for Microsoft to even think that such an attitude is acceptable to the business community is an arrogance that defies commercial logic and understanding.

The result for me is that I will be looking very closely at alternatives to Windows as a specific project, not because I want to, but because Microsoft have made it clear that their "flagship" offering is not stable, reliable or safe to be used in a corporate environment, so some sort of alternative has to be found, as there's no indication that there will be any significant change in attitude from Microsoft any time soon.

unkel

Some rant. Good luck getting your corporate users to switch to Linux

I've done about 50-60 upgrades / fresh installs of W10 so far (most / all presumably upgraded to 1511 at this stage) and I haven't had any major issues except for a few very old PCs with W10 Pro and Office 2010 Pro that stopped sending Outlook emails. Which was an easy enough fix.

I had some issues enabling audit mode in 1511 on day one after installing updates but it's fine now. Might have been an issue with the updates themselves rather than 1511.

Nowso

i have an issue with the windows 10 november update - Its not showing up as available still through updates as are any updates sice that

no updates installed in a few weeks even since then - i updated flash through avast software updater but no sign of any updates

any ideas .