Star Trek Voyager - Is It That Bad?

Beefy78

Tuvix is one of my favourite Trek episodes and one which I really wish they'd have harked back to occasionally like Trek sometimes did with The Inner Light. I don't remember enjoying any other episode in that season when I recently rewatched tbh.

Myrddin

Beefy78 wrote: »

Tuvix is one of my favourite Trek episodes and one which I really wish they'd have harked back to occasionally like Trek sometimes did with The Inner Light. I don't remember enjoying any other episode in that season when I recently rewatched tbh.

Probably showing my age here but I remember having that episode recorded on VHS yonks ago & it had a different name...it displayed as 'Symbiogenesis', so they must have changed the name for the dvd's

degrassinoel

I remember watching it on sky when they showed it for the first time, i honestly thought they were going to call him TwoLicks

They really should have kept him instead of Neelix - so ye lose Tuvok too, big deal

Yeah the Meld episode was great though, isnt that the one were Tuvok fantasizes about throttling Neelix? Hah, that's not the only reason i liked it but it really helped.

Rawr

Voyager for me was for the most part a fairly competent Trek show, which unfortunately happened at roughly the same point where Rick Berman's stewardship of the franchise had started to damage it heavily.

I strongly felt back then (and even now), that after many years of success with TNG, and also DS9, Berman & Co. had started to sit upon their laurels, and were getting comfortable there. Recycling of TNG plots, and dull execution of characters and concepts in places gave the impression of a staff that was kind of 'phoning it in'. No need to work too hard afterall. The Trekkies will keep watching....they always had.

However there was plenty to like about the show. But alas for everything good I often felt a lot of frustration attached to some many missed or underused opportunities.

The Concept
Voyager was likely an attempt to get back to the old 'Where no-one has gone before' swashbuckling of the classic trek days. They wussed out however, and stayed in the fairly safe confines of a TNG-style story. Like many have said before 'Year of Hell' is what the show should have been. The original plan for Year of Hell was actually an entire season. But alas, they wussed out there too, and made it a two-parter (was still good though). Year of Hell, is that the entire show should have been. It would have made for an incredibly gripping series.

The Villians
Again like many have said, The Vidians were an excellent villain. When they were first introduced they felt even more chilling than the Borg. An enemy that would literally gut you for parts Now that is scary! Woefully underused in favor of the poor-man's Klingon-clone, the Kazon.

I remember Species 8472 being hyped up as 'even scarier than the Borg'. They did not live up to that hype and were kind of done for me as a threat when their master attack plan for the Federation involved one of them pretending to be 'Boothby'.

I goes without saying that Voyager diluted the threat of the Borg. A lot of that was down to Seven, but a succession very silly Borg defeats kind of finished them off. Their defeat in the finale was no surprise.

The Characters
Janeway was 'OK' as captain. A bit annoying at times, but OK, and in some cases the best of the bunch. Many of the others were annoying as hell and just plain 'Meh'. Tuvok was fairly strong, and Seven was occasionally strong (however Jeri Ryan had to get through a lot of hammy lines to get there, Seven was not scripted well). The Doctor was also pretty good. But you could throw Kim, Paris, Chakotay & Torres into a big blender for all I cared character-wise. There just wasn't much going for them.

As mentioned earlier Neelix was Jar-Jar Binks, and his inclusion in stories was often inexplicable at times. Kes had the impact of a very damp biscuit and would often have little more than token lines in most episodes. Her replacement with Seven made a lot of sense.

What really annoyed the be-jasus out of me was Naomi Wildman. Weasley Crusher is all but forgiven now in my books thanks the inclusion of Wildman and her perpetual threat to become the 'Captains Assistant'. Thankfully that never happened, but she appeared none-the-less, often with Neelix or Borg-children in tow. I often failed to see the point of her, beyond showing how much time had passed. The girl's extremely cheesy acting routinely devastated any scene she was involved in.

The Delivery
As I mentioned earlier, I had a feeling that Berman's tenure as Trek chief was starting to wreck the franchise while Voyager was running. I felt that this was particularly acute during the last 2 seasons of Voyager. Up until that point I had been a religious viewer of new trek episodes, and had regularly watched both Voyager and DS9 every week.

While DS9 had the excitement of the Dominion War going on, Voyager was messing about with very stale and rehashed material. There was occasional good stuff, but for the most part there was little of substance, and seasons also included the single most rage-inducing examples of twee Irish-Americana ever to pollute my senses. (You know the episodes I'm talking about...)

My desire to follow the show evaporated and I feel that was down to the ever decreasing quality of the show. The same actually happened for me during the last season of DS9 too. Although they would still do excellent war-drama, they would often wreck the flow of things by making episodes that focus on a Holodeck Lounge singer (who said 'pal-y' far too often).

Entire franchise really seemed to be on its way out at this stage, especially given that the Star Trek feature film of the time was the truly abysmal 'Insurrection'. The fact that Enterpise lasted as long as it did was a surprise, especially since it too suffered from a lot of the same problems as Voyager.

Voyager's ending was a bit flat as well, and if it weren't for Nemesis it would have also been our final look at the TNG universe, which is kind of sad.

Was Voyager bad? As a whole, no it was not bad. Thoughout its run it had a lot going for it. However, was Voyager good? Again, the answer was no. Lazy writing a production values stole what potential it had to be a *great* show. So it's not bad...but it could have been great....

bilbot79

The worst thing that happened in Voyager was the discovery of Seven and the Doctoers' singing voices

Myrddin

Rawr wrote: »

So it's not bad...but it could have been great....

That's essentially it. I'm on Season 3 at the mo, & it's a step backwards compared to 1 & 2. Overall, there's been very, very little focus on just how far away from home they are...no focus on isolation, on pulling together for survival, on the enormous journey ahead of them. It's just TNG on a different ship. Voyager could have been so, so good.

livinginkorea

bilbot79 wrote: »

The worst thing that happened in Voyager was the discovery of Seven and the Doctoers' singing voices

Disagree, thought Seven was a good addition to the cast and allowed them to find out more about the Borg. The Doctor singing was more for humor but was not so cringe-worthy as I remember.

The worst thing about Voyager was the constant resetting back to normal after every episode or two. After watching DS9 with some great stories and character development, I wasn't ready to go back to reduced story arcs but still enjoyed watching Voyager once I got my head around that.

Beefy78

Naomi Wildman never bothered me at all. I liked the idea that she was born on Voyager and was symbolic of their new life there - RDM used a similar idea in Battlestar Galactica. Wesley annoyed me because he shouldn't have been there.

Voyager was a crew on a journey which might have lasted four generations, on a relatively small ship. Having kids around and introuducing them into the inner-workings of the ship early actually makes sense.

Myrddin

Season three was pretty poor, by comparison to seasons one and two. There are literally a handful of good episodes, vastly outnumbered by boring/passable/middling episodes. The show has definitely found its feet by now, but the writing is so safe and weak at times. Thankfully, I think things pick up after this season, but yeah, three has been the worst so far.

• Basics, Part II -Goodbye to the Kazon, & Seska (though Seska's death was pitiful). Paris retaking Voyager with a shuttlecraft is stretching credibility too to say the least!
• Flashback - Very nice to see the Excelsior again, but as an episode, meh. Credit for the stage & set designs too, but on the whole, a dull enough showing.
• The Chute - I like this one, close, tense and reminds me a little of No Escape (Ray Liotta, 1994).
• The Swarm - A very by the numbers episode, nothing of any note really at all in it.
• False Profits - The two Ferengi trapped in the Delta Quadrant, as a result of the TNG episode featuring the Barzan Wormhole. I want to like this episode, but there's something about it that's just, well, boring.
• Remember - Not a bad episode really, takes a while to get going but plays out well enough.
• Sacred Ground - Another middling/boring episode, Kes injured = spiritual ritual for Janeway in order to save her.
• Future's End - Kinda ok, some bad, some decent bits. Not much else to say about it other than the mobile emitter for the Doc.
• Warlord - This reminds me a little of DS9's "The Passenger". Kes is no warlord though!
• The Q and the Grey - Q outside of TNG just doesn't work.
• Macrocosm - Voyagers answer to TNG's "Genesis", except nowhere near as good.
• Fair Trade - Neelix feels his usefulness is at an end, as they've reached as far out as he's ever got. I kinda like Neelix, there, I said it.
• Alter Ego - Ugh, a holodeck episode. Harry falls in love...next!
• Coda - Not bad this one, aliens that inhabit Janeway's mind at the point of death. Somewhat like DS9's "Distant Voices", but again, not as good.
• Blood Fever - Vorik goes through the Pon Farr, and 'infects' Torres with it. The beginnings of Torres & Paris' relationship are seen here, plus, the first Borg in Voyager is seen at the end of the episode.
• Unity - Poor enough episode, barring the scenes on the Borg Cube.
• Darkling - The Doctor accidentally turns himself into a mad man, by messing about with his programming. Kes considers leaving Voyager for some alien guy. Next!
• Rise - I like this one, there's something close & tense about the orbital tether idea. Neelix finally cracks at Tuvok.
• Favorite Son - I liked this one too, it seemed like an original idea for once. Harry discovers he's actually not human, & finds his home planet..only to realise it was an elaborate ruse.
• Before and After - Another decent episode, Kes is travelling back in time.
• Real Life - The Doctor's holographic family. Passable episode.
• Distant Origin - Apart from the concept, the execution of the episode was good. Dinosaurs didn't go extinct, they just built spaceships & disappeared into space! (without leaving any traces of technology behind)
• Displaced - The crew begins to disappear, being replaced by aliens who claim to not know why...but they really do, those sneaky aliens. Meh, ok, not bad, not great.
• Worst Case Scenario - Good episode, holographic simulation about a Maquis conspiracy take over of Voyager.
• Scorpion - Janeway makes a deal with the Borg, & we get Species 8472 plus Seven of Nine

Rawr

Myrddin wrote: »

Season three was pretty poor, by comparison to seasons one and two. There are literally a handful of good episodes, vastly outnumbered by boring/passable/middling episodes. The show has definitely found its feet by now, but the writing is so safe and weak at times. Thankfully, I think things pick up after this season, but yeah, three has been the worst so far.

Defiantly agree. I do remember my interest peaking at this time, especially with the various references to the Borg, and the buildup to us meeting them again.

Before this season aired on Sky, I had already watched First Contact in the cinema and I was curious about what had happened to the collective. Scorpion did make for a decent finale, and Species 8472 were pretty good that this point (before being ruined later).

I think the whole Kes & Neelix relationship somehow emploded off-screen during this season. Kes didn't seem to have any issues with fecking off from Voyager without him, and they really didn't seem to be written as a couple by this season. Although I cared very little for them, I did find it odd that such a thing would happen without it being written into an episode. Given the amount of TNG rehashing they were doing, I would have reconed that they could fit in some original character development.

Or was a break-up too far from their writing comfort zone?

Beefy78

I'm sure they formally split up on camera. Maybe I'm imagining it.

The Borg's appearance at this stage of the show was really good and I remember finding the pre-credit scene on Scorpion to be genuinely jaw-dropping. At that point they'd had the difficult couple of early seasons that both TNG and DS9 had lived through and I really thought at that point that Voyager was about to kick-on from there.

Beefy78

Double-post

Myrddin

Kes & Neelix did break up on screen, but it was handled incredibly poorly. Kes tells Neelix that maybe it'd be best if they both took some time apart etc...then literally a few scenes later she's firing a phaser at security in an attempt to get off the ship. It turns out she had been overtaken by someone else's mind (a carbon copy of DS9's "The Passenger"), and was some kind of famous warlord.

The timeline of events suggest that is was this warlord who said to Neelix, through Kes, about breaking up...not actually Kes herself. An episode or two later, & indeed it seems they had broken up. Really poorly done.

And again, I actually like Neelix (yeah, I went there). There is more to him than the constantly jovial chef he portrays. When he felt his usefulness had run out on Voyager once they reached the Nekrit Expanse, it showed that there was more to him as he had been worrying, not wanting to let the crew and Janeway down etc. The episode where he died, & Seven brought him back (Season 4) is excellent too, and develops him more. The writers, again, just failed to capitalise on all these things, & he'll forever be remembered as a joke character.

Beefy78

I like Neelix. He's nowhere near the top of my 'least liked character' list in Voyager. I've never really got the hatred.

Thargor

beauf wrote: »

You forgot Janeway accidentally being launched in to space while inspecting a airlock.

What ep was that, totally passed me by somehow...

Myrddin

Season 4 done, and it's a dramatic improvement over season 3.

• Scorpion, Part II - Enjoyable conclusion to the Scorpion two parter. Shows the rift between Janeway and Chakotay nicely too, and their conflict with regard how to proceed.
• The Gift - I liked this one too, it was a good send off for Kes, and interesting how her mental abilities developed. Shot in the arm getting 10k light years knocked off the trip too.
• Day of Honor - Enjoyable episode, the relationship between Tom & B'Elanna is started, and we finally see a starship who's warp core ejection system actually works!
• Nemesis - The first half of this episode really drags, the second half is much better. There's a fantastic twist in it too.
• Revulsion - Excellent episode about a homicidal hologram, so very well played by Leland Orser.
• The Raven - A bit of a throwback to TNG's "Brothers" episode, not bad, not great.
• Scientific Method - Good episode, the crew are being subjected to experiments by invisible aliens.
• Year of Hell - Fantastic episode, but jeez, that ending/reset, ugh.
• Random Thoughts - B'Elanna is locked up for having violent thoughts on some planet. Turns out, it was someone else selling those emotions & the effects were spreading throughout the community. Not great.
• Concerning Flight - I'm not a fan of this one, not exactly sure why, but no, slow, boring, and uninteresting. Could be because of the hologram Da Vinci...he's quite annoying (and I like Davies as an actor!)
• Mortal Coil - Neelix is killed and brought back several hours later by Seven. Fantastic episode, really gives Neelix some much needed development, and his struggles as a result are very well portrayed.
• Waking Moments - Aliens inhabiting dreams, it's decent enough tbh.
• Message in a Bottle - Loved this one, who doesn't! The Prometheus is a class act, though blowing up Romulan Warbirds with two torpedoes is abit ott.
• Hunters - Great Hirogen episode, man those guys are BIG! Plus, Tony Todd!
• Prey - More of the same, the Hirogen are an interesting new foe.
• Retrospect - An interesting episode about Seven believing herself to having been the victim of an assault by a weapons dealer. The Doc leaps to her defence, and after an investigation, it turns out it was a result of other memories. An ok episode, not great, but certainly not bad.
• The Killing Game - Wow, consider the Hirogen completely neutered after this one. More holodeck nonsense, and at the end, they're all bowing to each other. Dreadful stuff.
• Vis à Vis - Enjoyable ep about a body stealing alien.
• The Omega Directive - Another enjoyable ep, the omega directive gives Starfleet Captains some rather large responsibilities and powers, and rescinds the Prime Directive too.
• Unforgettable - Enjoyable ep again, a woman who you forget unless you're around her all the time (love interest for Chakotay)
• Living Witness - Fantastic episode, and the closest Voyager gets to a Mirror Universe episode.
• Demon - Another good episode, the demon class planet with the liquid that becomes sentient, eventually replicating the crew (we see these again in the next season if I recall).
• One - The entire crew has to go into stasis while Seven & the Doc navigate the ship through a huge nebula. Good episode, could have been way better though (there's never any real sense of isolation in it).
• Hope and Fear - Cracking season finale, the NX-01A is a beauty! Problem is, she's on a course to hell!

All in all a superb season of Star Trek. While anyone can say about Voyager, "they could have made it so much better", this season has a ton of good/great episodes in it.

Kirby

I'm amazed you didn't like the killing game. I found it really entertaining. Sure, WW2 is over done but they did it well. And we got Klingon Neelix and Jeri Ryan singing!

Myrddin

Kirby wrote: »

I'm amazed you didn't like the killing game. I found it really entertaining. Sure, WW2 is over done but they did it well. And we got Klingon Neelix and Jeri Ryan singing!

An excruciatingly bad two parter for me I'm afraid The concept was interesting, an Hirogen who felt his people were too scattered and consumed with the hunt, the loss of their territory and culture, and one who felt the hunt could be replicated in order to restore the Hirogen to what they once were.

The execution though, eugh. WW2....again! It's so overdone, period holodeck stuff in Star Trek seriously needs to end. It completely neutered the Hirogen at the end, they went from 7 foot tall giants who looked upon anyone and everyone as their prey (a lesser form of life), to nodding in respect to Janeway...all in two episodes. Dreadful stuff, it could have been so, so much better.

Kirby

Well there is more to come from it. Maybe you will appreciate the next part where you see what they did with the holographic tech Janeway gave them.

Myrddin

Kirby wrote: »

Well there is more to come from it. Maybe you will appreciate the next part where you see what they did with the holographic tech Janeway gave them.

Oh I've seen Voyager quite a few times, this is just another run through. Don't get me wrong, I like the Hirogen...I just don't like what the writers made them become (sterile, generic baddies, blah). They were terrifying when we first seen them...they'd kill you, take your bones as a trophy to display on a wall, and boil the rest of you in a big pot with other dead things to make din dins. As I said, didn't take long for them to become mundane generic bad guys

Rawr

Myrddin wrote: »

Oh I've seen Voyager quite a few times, this is just another run through. Don't get me wrong, I like the Hirogen...I just don't like what the writers made them become (sterile, generic baddies, blah). They were terrifying when we first seen them...they'd kill you, take your bones as a trophy to display on a wall, and boil the rest of you in a big pot with other dead things to make din dins. As I said, didn't take long for them to become mundane generic bad guys

Very much agree. For me things went drastically down-hill for them the second they took off the breathing-masks that they wore in the first episodes, and we could see their faces. They were no longer anonymous monsters...they were 'people' now.

This was something of a trend in later TNG era baddies that I really didn't like. They tried to 'humanise' them, and even went as far as throwing in a Nerd-Hirogen running the equipment on one episode. That just killed them for me.

It's really shocking how quickly they managed to do that to a brand new baddie.

IvySlayer

Myrddin wrote: »

Oh I've seen Voyager quite a few times, this is just another run through. Don't get me wrong, I like the Hirogen...I just don't like what the writers made them become (sterile, generic baddies, blah). They were terrifying when we first seen them...they'd kill you, take your bones as a trophy to display on a wall, and boil the rest of you in a big pot with other dead things to make din dins. As I said, didn't take long for them to become mundane generic bad guys

Even Seven seemed scared of them. The Borg were hunted themselves but had no idea who did it

Kirby

It was a necessity. There aren't many 6,7 foot actors who can actually act. So you spend all your time doing Frodo style perspective tricks or you just hire regular sized people.

Cookie_Monster

Unforgettable - Enjoyable ep again, a woman who you forget unless you're around her all the time (love interest for Chakotay)

I don't get the point of this episode, sure we already had Chakotay for that... :pac:

Cookie_Monster

Unforgettable - Enjoyable ep again, a woman who you forget unless you're around her all the time (love interest for Chakotay)

I don't get the point of this episode, sure we already had Chakotay for that... :pac:

Myrddin

Season 5 - A bit more of a mixed bag than Season 4 was, and arguably, not as good as a result. There are one or two dreadful episodes, but some absolute crackers too

• Night - An interesting season opener. With Voyager in 'the void', Janeway secludes herself, and find it difficult to live with the decision she made which stranded the crew in the Delta Quadrant. I commend the writers here, showing a strong leader wrestling with the weight of their decisions isn't usually done. Though it's kinda like Sisko & the decision to bring the Romulans into the Dominion War, except nowhere near as good.
• Drone - Really good episode, a 29th century Borg comes about as a result of a transporter mishap and the Doctor's mobile emitter.
• Extreme Risk - B'Elanna is another character racked with guilt, and begins to self harm. The Delta Flyer also comes about. A decent enough episode, despite the blink and you'll miss it approach to shuttle creation!
• In the Flesh - What were they thinking here, tsk tsk. A race of being so powerful they brought the Borg to its knees...for some reason goes to elaborate lengths to simulate Earth. Wouldn't it be more likely they'd just open a spatial fissure at Earth, & blow the planet up like we've seen them doing a few times already to other planets?
• Once Upon a Time - Neelix takes on Uncle duties, when Wildman is gravely injured. They don't want to tell Naomi, so it's all hid from her. I can't look kindly an any episode that features Flodder, absolutely appallingly bad stuff.
• Timeless - Arguably the greatest episode of Voyager. What more can I say, incredible episode.
• Infinite Regress - Borg multiple personality disorder. Not a bad episode at all, & Ryan was fantastic in this one.
• Nothing Human - Really like this one, but then again, I've a soft spot for Cardassian characters! Brilliant episode.
• Thirty Days - Another good one, Paris gets demoted and banged up for 30 days because of a severe prime directive violation. Cool to se the Flyer explore underwater too.
• Counterpoint - Can't say I'm a huge fan of this one, it's just, meh. Good idea for a story, but it comes off as too dark and sterile in the end.
• Latent Image - Another character in crisis, this time, the Doc. He crumbles when he chose to save Harry over another crew member. Ultimately they had to wipe his memory, which he eventually discoveres clues of them doing so. It leads them back to square one, meltdown.
• Bride of Chaotica! - Painful, painful episode. Another dismal attempt at a holodeck episode.
• Gravity - A good episode, Paris & Tuvok are stranded on the other side of a gravity well (with associated time dilation effects), and meet Noss (Lori Petty). Enjoyable, not fantastic, but not bad.
• Bliss - Another cracker of an episode. A giant space beasty uses telepathy to convince the crew it's a wormhole to Earth. Upon entering it, it's anything but. Has a real Moby Dick feel to it or something, as the alien fellow Seven makes contact with reminds me of an old sea dog, looking to net a big whale or die trying.
• Dark Frontier - Hmm, the Borg 2 parter. It has more good points than bad ones...but stealing tech off a Borg sphere, badly damaged or not, seems a real stretch to make. They ended up another 10k light years closer to home anyway.
• The Disease - Enjoyable episode, I actually like Harry Kim. Nice to see him grow & mature beyond "Yes Captain!". Interesting concept of a generational ship too, with descent growing among the inhabitants over the nature of the ship itself.
• Course: Oblivion - Yeah another very good one, & the conclusion to 'Demon' from the previous season. The replicated crew discover they are not the originals, & the new warp core begins killing them. The ending was a bit sad too, which is unusual for Voyager.
• The Fight - Ugh, not a fan of this one. Alien boxers, Boothby, and another charater in crises (Chakotay, & a genetically triggered alzheimer's).
• Think Tank - Very good episode, and an original idea too. The think tank leader is very well played. Interesting to hear they cured the Vidiian Phage...makes you wonder what life for the Vidiian's is like now.
• Juggernaut - Enjoyable episode, terror on board a Malon industrial waste vessel!
• Someone to Watch Over Me - The Doc falls in love with Seven, by teaching her social skills. It reminds me a bit of TNG's 'In Theory'.
• 11:59 - Another what were they thinking episode, not terribly written or anything, just, well, it's not really a Star Trek episode!
• Relativity - Very good time travel episode here, which concludes the Braxton arc iirc. Interesting to see what future Federation time ships look like too.
• Warhead - Meh, feels like it's been done before with Season 2's 'Prototype'.
• Equinox - Very, very good season finale. It seems Voyager wasn't the only Starfleet ship that the Caretaker took to the Delta Quadrant. This one, the Equinox, found a less 'Starfleet' way to get home though...

Rawr

In the Flesh:

This episode just annoyed the hell out of me. The silliness of having 8472 dress up a Starfleet in what is essentially a giant holodeck just obliterated them as a baddie in my mind. As you said, they could have just blown Earth up, thus crippling the Federation.

The other thing that started to bug me here through was the whole 'Boothby' thing. When Picard introduced him, he was an interesting character. The wisest guy in the Academy, and he's only the groundskeeper. Picard's feverish re-telling of Boothby to Crusher Jr. fit very well with the eventual introduction of the actual character when with meet Wesley again (with 'not-Tom Paris' as his roomie).

Now suddenly Janeway knows him, and he was putting flowers on her academy window. Then later on Chakotay knows him too as his boxing trainer. For some reason he now knows *every* single Starfleet officer ever? That always seemed like a bit of a stretch, especially given to massive scale of the fleet. Anyways, this is the episode where it started to bug me.

Once upon a time...

Agreed. Flodder was a bloody mess of a character. I honestly hope these people never actually produce children's television if this is what they can come up with. Never good when Naomi is the least annoying thing in an episode

Dark Frontier

My favourite Seven episode. Mostly good. However the whole thing about sneaking into the Borg Capital and then managing to actually get away with only minor scratches just served to further wreak this once awesome baddie for me.

Equinox

Another reminder of what Voyager *should* have been. I enjoyed this one, however I was disappointed that Janeway was still able to pull rank on the Equinox's captain. If it had been the other way round (for example if the Equinox was a massive Galaxy class, Capt. Ransom would have authority), it may have made for a more interesting episode.

As evil as Ransom's crew were depicted. I always sympathized with them over Janeway's pontifications regarding following the rules no matter what...which is easy to say when your ship is fitted with The Mighty Reset Button, with enough energy to keep running all of the replicators (remember when that was supposed to be a problem?).

However, it was a good way to end the season, which was mixed but not horrible. If I remember right, the really bad stuff is coming soon

Myrddin

[QUOTE=Rawr;98822545Equinox

Another reminder of what Voyager *should* have been. I enjoyed this one, however I was disappointed that Janeway was still able to pull rank on the Equinox's captain. If it had been the other way round (for example if the Equinox was a massive Galaxy class, Capt. Ransom would have authority), it may have made for a more interesting episode.[/QUOTE]

Great point there actually. I felt the 'command falls to the captain of the ship which has tactical superiority' was a logical and believable rule. But what you suggest, would have worked far better. It would have put Janeway in a no-win scenario (comply with orders from Ransom which break the very ethos of the Federation, or disobey orders from Ransom because they're ethically and morally wrong). Shame the writers took the safe option here.

As evil as Ransom's crew were depicted. I always sympathized with them over Janeway's pontifications regarding following the rules no matter what...which is easy to say when you're ship is fitted with The Mighty Reset Button, with enough energy to keep running all of the replicators (remember when that was supposed to be a problem?).

I dunno, to me, they deserved what they got. If you can't get home without killing innocent life forms, then that needs to be accepted, and a new home made. I can't imagine the Voyager crew doing what Ransom et al did, & I instead would see them settle down on some planet (exactly like what Janeway & Chakotay did earlier on when they were infected with a disease). Ransom at least came to his senses, his first officer though was beyond reproach.

Equinox pt2 (which I watched last night) showed Janeway at her worst. Pig headed, emotional, and reckless. She took Ransom's betrayal personally, not quite Sisko/Edington levels, but not far off.

However, it was a good way to end the season, which was mixed but not horrible. If I remember right, the really bad stuff is coming soon

Ugh, don't remind me... more Flodder & "Tommy me boy!"

Riskymove

Myrddin wrote: »

Great point there actually. I felt the 'command falls to the captain of the ship which has tactical superiority' was a logical and believable rule. But what you suggest, would have worked far better. It would have put Janeway in a no-win scenario (comply with orders from Ransom which break the very ethos of the Federation, or disobey orders from Ransom because they're ethically and morally wrong). Shame the writers took the safe option here.

I suppose the flip side is that if Equinox had been a larger warship it probably wouldn't have ended up in such trouble or desperate situation that made them do the things they did!

helimachoptor

Riskymove wrote: »

I suppose the flip side is that if Equinox had been a larger warship it probably wouldn't have ended up in such trouble or desperate situation that made them do the things they did!

with the story not being on screen, would have been easy to craft

- Some type of spacial anomaly
- Attack by 8472 etc etc

Massive ship, loss of crew, unable to maintain all basic functions etc