Why should a man offer a seat to a woman on train/bus?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Years ago on the red line luas (where else!) I was sitting down and this lady got on with her daughter, about 7 I'd say, and she asked me to let the child sit down.
I said no, didn't elaborate any further and neither did she

wench

PARlance wrote: »

You're suffering from a big dose of hypocrisy and flawed thinking.
Children don't go free on the basis that they don't take a seat, what makes you think that?

From DBs website:

Who qualifies for Child Fares?
Under 4’s:
One child under 4 years of age can travel free when accompanied by a fare paying adult provided that during busy periods, the child does not occupy a seat to the exclusion of another customer.

IvyTheTerrible

I normally offer my seat to anyone who looks frail or has difficulty standing.
I use public transport a lot and now that I'm pregnant with quite a bit of joint pain, I will ask someone for a seat. I don't expect people to automatically offer me a seat as I'm not huge yet and people are afraid of reactions to these offers.

Shermanator

I was raised to believe a man gave up his seat for a woman just because he was a man. This is not about "seating etiquette". this is about what type of man you are. Yes, we could all stay seated and hide behind the equality for women argument. We could also use this argument for "men" who hit women.
I still give up my seat for women, old people etc. I hold doors open for whoever may be behind me (male or female). It costs me nothing and makes me feel good.

Have you read the story about Josh, the school kid who was being bullied in his small town school. He moved to a big school and decided he wanted to be noticed and not bullied. So on his first day, he held the door open for all the other students. He even held doors open between classes. He continued to do this every day for the rest of his time in school. At first all the kids thought he was weird and called him doorman. However, after a few weeks they started to realize it was an act of kindness and people started to look forward to him greeting them each day.
Students gave testimonies, claiming how Josh set an example for other students, and how this small act of kindness encouraged them to do nice things for other people. Beaming with infectious positive energy, Josh rose in popularity to be named Prom King the next year.
Josh is now an avid public speaker, reaching out to younger students, and hoping to inspire kindness at an even earlier age.

"It's amazing how one simple act can change your whole life," said Josh. "I never thought doing something so simple could be so rewarding.

Can't post a link but his story is on YouTube

whatismyname

I'm a woman.

If a man got up and gave me his seat and it seemed that it was because I was a woman and he a man, this would really not be ok.

Isaiah

whatismyname wrote: »

I'm a woman.

If a man got up and gave me his seat and it seemed that it was because I was a woman and he a man, this would really not be ok.

You could just politely decline.

The Backwards Man

I just stand.

Liam O

I'd echo the sentiments of the majority of people in here. I live somewhere where I'm basically guaranteed a seat in the morning and 90% of the time get one on the way back. I'm generally going further than people on the way back so don't see why anyone else deserves a seat more than me.

However, if someone looks like they're having difficulty and if my leaving the seat will make their live considerably easier for that half hour or so I'll happily move, same if I'm on one seat and a family of 4 get on I'll move so they can sit together.

I take it on a case by case basis, as with most things, I'm not silly enough to tar a massive group of people with the same brush.

Fwiw, I have seen people take seats that people have vacated for someone else, so on a crowded train or bus you'd want to be sure that the person you want to sit there will do so so would lead to some hesitation as I don't want someone unaware/ignorant to take the seat I meant for someone who needs it.

SterlingArcher

To older people.

To a woman It's a nice gesture, but unfortunately from a bygone era.

you have feminist demanding trigger warnings and legal labels on compliments to be called " microagressions". so they can be on a non stop tour of outrage . When the ship goes down they better get ready. Because I am jacks sense of relief in my lifeboat. Can't have it both ways.

SterlingArcher

To older people.

To a woman It's a nice gesture, but unfortunately from a bygone era.

you have feminist demanding trigger warnings and legal labels on compliments to be called " microagressions". so they can be on a non stop tour of outrage . When the ship goes down they better get ready. Because I am jacks sense of relief in my lifeboat. Can't have it both ways.

Isaiah

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you give up your seat for everyone you see standing or just women?

I'm asking about the logic of giving up a seat specifically for women. I've outlined my view on it . I'm asking for yours

Well I actually would stand up if an elderly, frail or injured person got on regardless of gender. I would 'defer' to a woman if we were both going for the last seat. I would sometimes defer to men too but that depends upon who is closer to the seat or who went for it first.

With a women even if I went for the last seat first or was closer, I would stand aside and let her have it.

If this offends you then it's your problem, not mine.

whatismyname

Isaiah wrote: »

You could just politely decline.

Of course I would. What else would I do?

That's not the point though.

Liam O

whatismyname wrote: »

Of course I would. What else would I do?

That's not the point though.

Some people have been taught to do it from an early age. These people are generally more pleasant to be around than someone who will make an issue out of something so minuscule. Making a big deal out of it has the potential to ruin 2 people's day.

R P McMurphy

SterlingArcher wrote: »

To older people.

To a woman It's a nice gesture, but unfortunately from a bygone era.

you have feminist demanding trigger warnings and legal labels on compliments to be called " microagressions". so they can be on a non stop tour of outrage . When the ship goes down they better get ready. Because I am jacks sense of relief in my lifeboat. Can't have it both ways.

Would agree is from a byegone era. What is the etiquette for public transport, seats and gender fluid people

whatismyname

Liam O wrote: »

Some people have been taught to do it from an early age.

Yes I'm aware of that. It still isn't ok.

aking a big deal out of it has the potential to ruin 2 people's day.

I'm not sure how this relates to my post. I said something wouldn't be ok. I didn't say anything about making a big deal out of anything.

Sleepy

I'd offer the seat to someone who looks in need of it (elderly, pregnant, unsteady on their feet) but I wouldn't offer it on the basis of gender and, tbh, the middle aged women who are perfectly capable of standing yet glare at you expectantly piss me off.

Figbiscuithead

I would find it an old-fashioned thing to do that could be misconstrued as a as it's not a common occurrence at all in my experience, so when men have got up and offered me their seat, I assumed they thought I was pregnant, tbh....and I've never been pregnant, so have felt a bit awkward as a result, more for them than me. Obviously I wouldn't hold it against a man at all and manners are always a good thing no matter how old-fashioned they might come across.

It is common for a man to offer you the seat if one becomes available and you're both standing and in that case, I'd offer it back. I'm not bothered about getting a seat or not, tbh but I do appreciate the gesture. Though old-fashioned, I quite like when a man lets you go first into a lift or opens a door for you or offers the empty seat to you first though I wouldn't in a million years expect it or get angry if it didn't happen. As I said, manners, whether they're old fashioned or not, are never a bad thing. A person who means well acting with the best intentions shouldn't be judged negatively.

I really don't think this is a big deal and worth getting peed off or indignant about though from either perspective - just sounds like another excuse for a silly gender war.

The only time I'd expect anyone to get up is if someone is pregnant, elderly or disabled.

osarusan

Ignore the man or woman aspect.

If you really need that seat for whaever reason, take it. If there is somebody else who looks like they really need that seat for whatever reason, and you don't, then offer it.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

whatismyname wrote: »

Yes I'm aware of that. It still isn't ok.



I'm not sure how this relates to my post. I said something wouldn't be ok. I didn't say anything about making a big deal out of anything.

Why isn't it ok? He's asking you if you want a seat, not asking you to show him your tits? What's wrong with "no thanks, I'm ok standing"?

Samaris

Courtesy and manners are funny things in that way. I would be interested to know where that came from too - a well-bred man used to stand when a woman entered or exited the room, and hah, yes, I do recall from books of the same era that he wouldn't dream of sitting while a woman was standing (for heavens sake, don't think I'm advocating that! Courtesy is a changing custom and concept from age to age, as it should be!). Mind you, that does make a certain amount of sense in an age where ladies wore ridiculous contraptions and steelboned bodices! The poor things were liable to faint if they were standing too long from sheer lack of air.


Just like with any other ingrained concept, some aspects remained when necessity and times changed.

-My- dilemma is the awkward aspect of offering an elderly male a seat. I do (as a young female), but at times, they too are caught between early training and need, and elderly males have sometimes tried to offer -me- a seat, which puts me in a quandary! I do offer my seat to people that need it - pregnant women, women with small children they're carrying or if the small child is crowded (anyone else remember what it was like to be squished in amongst all these legs?), elderly people, people who look like they need it. But elderly males in particular can sometimes seem a little upset about it.


It's just a holdover aspect to an old courtesy. If someone offers me a seat, or holds open a door for me, I smile and thank them without any offence.

Mind you, I do recall a rather funny occassion on a bus where a seat kept changing hands. A young Middle Eastern male got up and offered me his seat; he was obviously in earnest about it, so I thanked him and sat down rather than leave him feeling a bit of an idiot by refusing after he'd already moved. Then a pregnant lady got on, and I offered my seat to her. Then an elderly lady got on, and the pregnant lady offered it to her!

I think everyone ended up quite a bit amused and hey, we all had our day brightened by this random act of travelling kindness!

Gaygooner

I never sit when travelling from Heuston into town.

SterlingArcher

SterlingArcher wrote: »

you have feminist demanding trigger warnings and legal labels on compliments to be called " microagressions". so they can be on a non stop tour of outrage . When the ship goes down they better get ready. Because I am jacks sense of relief in my lifeboat. Can't have it both ways.

I just assume that the woman standing is not a "feminist demanding traigger warnings" and remarkably (because AH suggests we're overrun with them) I have reached the age of 41 and have yet to meet one when offering my seat. I guess I've just been lucky.

amdublin

PARlance wrote: »

You're suffering from a big dose of hypocrisy and flawed thinking.
Children don't go free on the basis that they don't take a seat, what makes you think that? OAP's get free travel and you don't seem to mind them being offered a seat.

I think children under the age of 3 do - it's in the terms of carriage

Duggy747

If I'm on the bus and a woman comes near me in my seat I just smash the window of the moving bus and leap to my escape.

Checkmate, feminists!

Whitewinged

whatismyname wrote: »

Of course I would. What else would I do?

That's not the point though.

I wouldn't automatically think it was an equality thing though and be annoyed about it.

It could be that you just got on the bus and his stop is coming up so he offers the seat while standing for the next few stops before making his way off the bus. I even find those chairs uncomfortable sometimes so I like to stand for part of the journey and sit for the other half so someone could just want to stand. It could be that you had lots of bags and look a bit tired or something and the other has loads of energy and says to themself that they will offer the seat because they aren't that bothered sitting anyway. It could be anything really.

Figbiscuithead

Samaris wrote: »

Mind you, I do recall a rather funny occassion on a bus where a seat kept changing hands. A young Middle Eastern male got up and offered me his seat; he was obviously in earnest about it, so I thanked him and sat down rather than leave him feeling a bit of an idiot by refusing after he'd already moved. Then a pregnant lady got on, and I offered my seat to her. Then an elderly lady got on, and the pregnant lady offered it to her!

I think everyone ended up quite a bit amused and hey, we all had our day brightened by this random act of travelling kindness!

:pac: That's it. It just makes things a little more pleasant for everyone in this tough auld world we live in.

discus

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Its ingrained into me as a courtesy from when I was a kid. I also let women ahead of me in queues, offer to help them lift things if they look too heavy (not dirty!) etc.

Why though? Apparently women and men are similar. Apparently we all have the same capabilities.... eg - Female soldiers get paid the same, for the "same" work (but easier fitness tests). Let them skip a queue? Is their time more valuable than yours?

I mean I'm a feminist, I believe in gender equality till the cows come home, but I cannot stop myself from acting that way.

Women don't see you as an equal, even though you see them as an equal. They see the likes of you as an easy opportunity to make their life easier. Males like you are a pushover.

It seems that feminism means "bending over backwards for women" to you, and they no doubt love you for it

Figbiscuithead

discus wrote: »

Women don't see you as an equal, even though you see them as an equal. They see the likes of you as an easy opportunity to make their life easier. Males like you are a pushover.

It seems that feminism means "bending over backwards for women" to you, and they no doubt love you for it

Eh...sorry there, pal - what gives you the right to speak for all women?

Buona Fortuna

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Why isn't it ok? He's asking you if you want a seat, not asking you to show him your tits? What's wrong with "no thanks, I'm ok standing"?

Or just show him your tits. Might make his day and imagine the thread he could start.

discus

I'm allowed express opinions based on observations and generalisations I've made, surely?

Liam O

To answer the OPs question succinctly, if they are pregnant, elderly or have some impediment that is making standing difficult.

Figbiscuithead

discus wrote: »

I'm allowed express opinions based on observations and generalisations I've made, surely?

Allowed? Course you are but it's an incredibly stupid generalisation and certainly not true in the case of most women I know. Woman aren't scheming and scamming trying to trick silly men to make their lives easier. You sound as if you've got some unresolved issues with women there, pal.

whatismyname

Whitewinged wrote: »

I wouldn't automatically think it was an equality thing though and be annoyed about it.

It could be that you just got on the bus and his stop is coming up so he offers the seat while standing for the next few stops before making his way off the bus. I even find those chairs uncomfortable sometimes so I like to stand for part of the journey and sit for the other half so someone could just want to stand. It could be that you had lots of bags and look a bit tired or something and the other has loads of energy and says to themself that they will offer the seat because they aren't that bothered sitting anyway. It could be anything really.

I agree. Especially since I've been on the reverse end of a few of those.

That's why I said if it was because I was a woman and he a man.

I try not to make assumptions generally, and it's usually relatively easy to narrow the reason down somewhat in this case.

I've had the foot in a cast and a group of people get up to offer me a seat.

I've had people (can't remember gender as it's irrelevant) get up and offer me their seat cos they were due to get off at the next stop - and I've of course done the same for others.

Thankfully I've never had anyone get up and offer me a seat because I'm a woman anyhow, and pleased to say I'm not sure I've ever even seen it happen.

For a woman who is clearly very pregnant or less able to stand because of disability or a child in her arms or something. But that's clearly very different. It's not specifically based on gender.

discus

discus wrote: »

Women don't see you as an equal, even though you see them as an equal. They see the likes of you as an easy opportunity to make their life easier. Males like you are a pushover.

Someone who commits acts of kindness is seen as a pushover?

If you ever give a lecture on psychology, I'll be front and centre...laughing...

Skerries

*grabs popcorn* "dis gonna be good!"

Ash.J.Williams

i've an awful back condition but i tend to pretend i'm grand and on the luas one time i got up to let an oul fella sit down and the fecker said "ah no you're grand you look like you need it"
f u!

Sivrabrive

Sivrabrive wrote: »

So do you offer women your seat but not men,

Where or when did I say that?

I have of course offered my seat to men.

Post No. 1 and you're making up points that were never made. Welcome to AH...again?

Skerries

reminds me when I was about 10 and an older woman (can't remember her age but she was old to my young self) was indignant that I give up my seat beside my mother which I dutifully did and went and sat across the bus from her in a perfectly good seat

I would give up my seat to elder people or Pregnant women more but tbh I don't notice them as soon as I get on the DART I have the head down watching something on my phone with earbuds in so it could be the national geriatric associations day out and I would be oblivious

P. Breathnach

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

...
I don't know much about raising children so I can't really comment....

You must have missed the memo about posting in AH: the less you know about something, the more you should express opinions on the matter.

ThinkProgress

For the most part, I manage to avoid travelling with the hordes on public transport. (Where's the smug look of contempt emoticon?)

But when I have to do so, I would usually take the opinion that it's every able bodied man/woman for themselves.

The very young/old or physically less able will get my seat without any fanfare. I'll just remove myself from it and quietly/subtly hand it over to them...

I've never had anyone get offended or refuse. But I think there is a way of doing it without making them feel like they're a charity case.

If I was competing with a woman for a seat, I'd usually just let them win as I'd feel like a bit of a c*nt sitting there looking at them all defeated and humbled. (F*ck what the femanazi's think - they can all kiss my a$$!)

Samaris

Duggy747 wrote: »

If I'm on the bus and a woman comes near me in my seat I just smash the window of the moving bus and leap to my escape.

Checkmate, feminists!

Best approach.

Copa Mundial

As most people have mentioned, I'd give up my seat for anyone, man or woman, who's elderly, frail, obviously sick or pregnant.

I don't see why a woman should get offended by being offered a seat. That's a complete over reaction by someone who's looking for something to be offended by. It's nothing more than a polite gesture from someone who was raised by parents who believed in chivalry.

Copa Mundial

Copa Mundial wrote: »

I don't see why a woman should get offended by being offered a seat. That's a complete over reaction by someone who's looking for something to be offended by. It's nothing more than a polite gesture from someone who was raised by parents who believed in chivalry.

I think the overreaction is by those who suggest there are women marauding public transport, waiting to be offended by anyone nice enough to offer a seat.

I really can't think of one occasion where someone took offence.

Samaris

discus wrote: »

Why though? Apparently women and men are similar. Apparently we all have the same capabilities.... eg - Female soldiers get paid the same, for the "same" work (but easier fitness tests). Let them skip a queue? Is their time more valuable than yours?



Women don't see you as an equal, even though you see them as an equal. They see the likes of you as an easy opportunity to make their life easier. Males like you are a pushover.

It seems that feminism means "bending over backwards for women" to you, and they no doubt love you for it

Crikey, you've got unresolved Issues.

As a woman, I see you in your manly maleness as just the same as I. As a person, I think you sound like you've got a chip on your shoulder the size of a small subcontinent!

Wabbit Ears

Ill give up a seat to an elderly person, a pregnant woman or someone with a baby/small kid where they may need it.

I cant see any reasoning to offer a seat to an able bodied anyone. Why would you do that? Most things considered chivalrous are now just seen as plain old sexist.

tashiusclay

amdublin wrote: »

Everytime I see a seat that is vacated on a bus/train and a man taking it and leaving a woman standing it irks me. Or not offering it to the woman and just sitting it irks me.

This morning that happened amd something clicked with me. Why am I irked? I want equality in every other male/female scenario so why not this???

Does anyone else feel this way or have any thoughts on this?? On why men should or shouldn't offer seat ton women



.

It sounds like you want gender equality when it suits you, and traditional gender roles when it doesn't, in the case of having to stay standing on busy public transport. Why do you need the seat more than an equal able bodied man, assuming you're not elderly or pregnant? Are female legs structurally weaker than male legs or something?

Most women seem to manage high heels ok despite how uncomfortable they look to me at least, but not being able or willing to stay standing while travelling?
Strange.

Skoop

Shermanator wrote: »

I was raised to believe a man gave up his seat for a woman just because he was a man. This is not about "seating etiquette". this is about what type of man you are. Yes, we could all stay seated and hide behind the equality for women argument. We could also use this argument for "men" who hit women.
I still give up my seat for women, old people etc. I hold doors open for whoever may be behind me (male or female). It costs me nothing and makes me feel good.

Have you read the story about Josh, the school kid who was being bullied in his small town school. He moved to a big school and decided he wanted to be noticed and not bullied. So on his first day, he held the door open for all the other students. He even held doors open between classes. He continued to do this every day for the rest of his time in school. At first all the kids thought he was weird and called him doorman. However, after a few weeks they started to realize it was an act of kindness and people started to look forward to him greeting them each day.
Students gave testimonies, claiming how Josh set an example for other students, and how this small act of kindness encouraged them to do nice things for other people. Beaming with infectious positive energy, Josh rose in popularity to be named Prom King the next year.
Josh is now an avid public speaker, reaching out to younger students, and hoping to inspire kindness at an even earlier age.

"It's amazing how one simple act can change your whole life," said Josh. "I never thought doing something so simple could be so rewarding.

Can't post a link but his story is on YouTube

Josh didn't just hold the door open for women. If you want to follow his example you should be giving up your seat to men too. But you don't. So it's not about kindness or what kind of man you want to be. It's demonstratably about 'social etiquette' for you. Nothing horribly wrong with social etiquette or anything. Just a bit silly for you to be trying to dress it up as something else.

Tilly

If there's someone worse off than me they'll get my seat whether they're a man or a woman.

Dolbert

If someone offered me their seat out of the blue I'd be paranoid that I looked pregnant!

Tilly

Dolbert wrote: »

If someone offered me their seat out of the blue I'd be paranoid that I looked pregnant!

I've done that, and she wasnt