Tottenham v West Ham 4:00pm Sky Sunday 22nd November

ziedth

I don't even think Lloris was top 5 in his position to be fair to yea at the time.

Having said that at the time of signing I would consider the below world class as in do a job for any of the big teams outside of Real/Barca how they actually turned out is irrelevant to the point:

Rebrov
Klinsmann
Soldado
Zokora (was very fancied after the WC IIRC)
Van Der Vaart
Les had scored like 40 goals for Newcastle in two years
You could even argue for the likes of Defoe, Bent and Bentley as they were very fancied at the time.

irishmover

ziedth wrote: »

I don't even think Lloris was top 5 in his position to be fair to yea at the time.

Having said that at the time of signing I would consider the below world class as in do a job for any of the big teams outside of Real/Barca how they actually turned out is irrelevant to the point:

Rebrov
Klinsmann
Soldado
Zokora (was very fancied after the WC IIRC)
Van Der Vaart
Les had scored like 40 goals for Newcastle in two years
You could even argue for the likes of Defoe, Bent and Bentley as they were very fancied at the time.

Berbatov was also fancied but somehow joined Spurs. Robbie Keane joined after a good WC with Ireland. Gareth Bale was close to joining Man United who at the time were winning the league.

Ormus

ziedth wrote: »

I don't even think Lloris was top 5 in his position to be fair to yea at the time.

Having said that at the time of signing I would consider the below world class as in do a job for any of the big teams outside of Real/Barca how they actually turned out is irrelevant to the point:

Rebrov
Klinsmann
Soldado
Zokora (was very fancied after the WC IIRC)
Van Der Vaart
Les had scored like 40 goals for Newcastle in two years
You could even argue for the likes of Defoe, Bent and Bentley as they were very fancied at the time.

I guess there's an argument for Rebrov or Klinsmann being close, they were definitely coups for a club our size. Soldado too. Those 3 were almost top class signings. Certainly the biggest signings we could hope to make.

I don't agree that Zokora or VdV were that coveted by the elite clubs. VdV did well for us and then went to Hamburg without any big club seeming to make an offer. He was capable of world class moments but wasn't athletic enough to be top.

Les was past his best and even at his best he barely came to the attention of top European clubs. Same with the other 3.

irishmover

Ormus wrote: »

I guess there's an argument for Rebrov or Klinsmann being close, they were definitely coups for a club our size. Soldado too. Those 3 were almost top class signings. Certainly the biggest signings we could hope to make.

I don't agree that Zokora or VdV were that coveted by the elite clubs. VdV did well for us and then went to Hamburg without any big club seeming to make an offer. He was capable of world class moments but wasn't athletic enough to be top.

Les was past his best and even at his best he barely came to the attention of top European clubs. Same with the other 3.

VDV was world class. When he left he couldnt last a full 90 mins and was getting old. That's why nobody big signed him.

Ormus

irishmover wrote: »

VDV was world class. When he left he couldnt last a full 90 mins and was getting old. That's why nobody big signed him.

He couldn't last 90 mins when he arrived either. He had world class skill with a conference class body.

Dublin Spur

a few spring to mind -

Greaves
Chivers
Ossie
Ricky
Gazza
Stewart
Lineker
Sheringham
Klinsmann
Popescu
Ginola
Zeige
Keane
Berbatov
Bale
Modric
VDV
Llorris

DubPerryman

Ormus wrote: »

Spurs have never made a top class signing.

I disagree with your statement. Though, by your standards, really only Real Madrid or Barcelona have bought top class players in the last ten years or so.

No, we're not signing galacticos but at the same time so are very very few clubs.

It's a chicken and egg thing, before we can buy someone on the Ballon d'Or list we need to have won the Champions League a couple of times, built our new stadium and have a truly global footprint - otherwise the top class players you speak of are out of our reach.

However, I'm a realist. The players we sign are not on the Ballon d'Or list but in recent seasons we have beaten teams to big players thanks to the way we've developed, our potential and the training ground etc.

A couple of more years under Poch and we may see one choice player per season accompanying the youth.

COYS!

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

a few spring to mind -

Greaves
Chivers
Ossie
Ricky
Gazza
Stewart
Lineker
Sheringham
Klinsmann
Popescu
Ginola
Zeige
Keane
Berbatov
Bale
Modric
VDV
Llorris

I'd actually love to see the reaction of Paul Stewart if it was put to him that he was world class.

Some of the players you mention either turned out to be world class, or were before they signed for Spurs. I suspect you got confused.

A top class signing is one who is coveted by the world's top clubs.

Ormus

DubPerryman wrote: »

I disagree with your statement. Though, by your standards, really only Real Madrid or Barcelona have bought top class players in the last ten years or so.

No, we're not signing galacticos but at the same time so are very very few clubs.

It's a chicken and egg thing, before we can buy someone on the Ballon d'Or list we need to have won the Champions League a couple of times, built our new stadium and have a truly global footprint - otherwise the top class players you speak of are out of our reach.

However, I'm a realist. The players we sign are not on the Ballon d'Or list but in recent seasons we have beaten teams to big players thanks to the way we've developed, our potential and the training ground etc.

A couple of more years under Poch and we may see one choice player per season accompanying the youth.

COYS!

Bayern and PSG have signed a lot of top class players in the last 10 years. City and Chelsea have signed several. United have got a few. Even Arsenal, with Sanchez, Ozil and Cech, could be called in that bracket. Monaco signed a few for a couple of years. I agree it's a chicken and egg thing. Sometimes we can punch above our weight if we impress a player that we're going places, or if a player knows he could join a top club but would probably spend a lot of time on the bench, sometimes (although not often) he will choose regular football.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

A top class signing is one who is coveted by the world's top clubs.

in your little world maybe

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

in your little world maybe

Eh ok, so in your big world a player can be top class but the top clubs don't want to sign him.

Dublin Spur

We set new british record fees with the Greaves and Gazza signings
We got Gazza ahead of Man Utd (Same as Anderton and Bale)

Ossie and Ricky were WC winners when we signed them

Lineker was La Liga top scorer when we signed him

Ginola was established French international and he won POY with us in 98/99
He actually turned down a move to Barca whilst at Newcastle

Klinsmann was world class - end of story

Spurs were always famous for having 'big' players but rarely great teams.

The current Spurs team is the first I can remember where the team unit is actually better than the sum of its parts. All credit to Pochintino for that, he's worked miracles with the shoe string budget he has been given.

golfball37

Dublin Spur wrote: »

We set new british record fees with the Greaves and Gazza signings
We got Gazza ahead of Man Utd (Same as Anderton and Bale)

Ossie and Ricky were WC winners when we signed them

Lineker was La Liga top scorer when we signed him

Ginola was established French international and he won POY with us in 98/99
He actually turned down a move to Barca whilst at Newcastle

Klinsmann was world class - end of story

Spurs were always famous for having 'big' players but rarely great teams.

The current Spurs team is the first I can remember where the team unit is actually better than the sum of its parts. All credit to Pochintino for that, he's worked miracles with the shoe string budget he has been given.

I don't think thats true, Cryuff played him on the right wing in his last season. I think Hugo Sanchez used own that title in the late 80s.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

We set new british record fees with the Greaves and Gazza signings
We got Gazza ahead of Man Utd (Same as Anderton and Bale)

Ossie and Ricky were WC winners when we signed them

Lineker was La Liga top scorer when we signed him

Ginola was established French international and he won POY with us in 98/99
He actually turned down a move to Barca whilst at Newcastle

Klinsmann was world class - end of story

Spurs were always famous for having 'big' players but rarely great teams.

The current Spurs team is the first I can remember where the team unit is actually better than the sum of its parts. All credit to Pochintino for that, he's worked miracles with the shoe string budget he has been given.

I did say in the Premiership era. That rules out Greaves, Gazza, Ossie, Ricky and Lineker.

Klinsmann I agree was world class, but top clubs appear to have thought he was past it, we signed him virtually unopposed.

Ginola was a very very classy player, but top clubs considered him too old and too lazy at the time Spurs signed him. It turned out they were wrong, just like they were wrong about Klinsmann, but that's not relevant.

Ormus

golfball37 wrote: »

I don't think thats true, Cryuff played him on the right wing in his last season. I think Hugo Sanchez used own that title in the late 80s.

Yeah Sanchez way outscored Lineker in Spain.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

I did say in the Premiership era. That rules out Greaves, Gazza, Ossie, Ricky and Lineker.

Klinsmann I agree was world class, but top clubs appear to have thought he was past it, we signed him virtually unopposed.

Ginola was a very very classy player, but top clubs considered him too old and too lazy at the time Spurs signed him. It turned out they were wrong, just like they were wrong about Klinsmann, but that's not relevant.

We've been around since 1882, why would anyone want to forget about pre 1992 ?

"And if you know your history" (as the song goes)

I never thought I'd ever her a Spurs fan claim that we have never signed a top player. Some of us are only fans because of some the top players we have had in the past.

By the way, and just for clarity are you claiming that Lineker was not an example of Spurs signing a top class footballer ?

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

We've been around since 1882, why would anyone want to forget about pre 1992 ?

"And if you know your history" (as the song goes)

I never thought I'd ever her a Spurs fan claim that we have never signed a top player. Some of us are only fans because of some the top players we have had in the past.

By the way, and just for clarity are you claiming that Lineker was not an example of Spurs signing a top class footballer ?

There is a difference between a top class footballer and a top class signing.

Lineker was top class, but he wasn't considered by the world's top clubs to be top class. I know he won the world cup golden boot in 86, but he was mediocre for Barca, possibly because he was often played on the wing. The reasons don't matter. The fact is that when we signed him, we didn't have to beat off competition from Real Madrid and AC Milan to do so. I'm not sure even Liverpool or United made concerted efforts.

As for Greaves etc, to be honest I don't know enough about the circumstances surrounding their signings, as I wasn't even born. I'm prepared to accept Greaves was a world class signing, his stats are ridiculous.

I suspect the world's top clubs didn't have huge interest in Ossie or Ricky, but I could be wrong on that.

Dublin Spur

top class footballers v top class signings......

who gives a shít?

lets just leave it there as this thread is heading down an all too familiar boring road

Kiith

Ormus wrote: »

If they were top class signings we would've had to beat off competition from Real, Barca and Bayern, or at least City.

Lloris is the only one who was possibly world class when we signed him.

How are we possibly supposed to sign world class players? We haven't won the league or champions league, and are not in a position to compete with Real/Barca/Bayern. You really need to re-evaluate our position if you think we can compete with the giants of world football when signing players.

The best we can hope for currently, is get players who have the potential to be great, and use them to get into a better position. Obviously that hasn't happened as planned though, and we haven't been able to hang onto most of them.

As above though, we should probably take this to the general thread.

Ormus

Kiith wrote: »

How are we possibly supposed to sign world class players? We haven't won the league or champions league, and are not in a position to compete with Real/Barca/Bayern. You really need to re-evaluate our position if you think we can compete with the giants of world football when signing players.

The best we can hope for currently, is get players who have the potential to be great, and use them to get into a better position. Obviously that hasn't happened as planned though, and we haven't been able to hang onto most of them.

As above though, we should probably take this to the general thread.

I never said we were supposed to sign world class players. How did you get that from anything I said?

Someone said we don't make top class signings anymore, I said we never really did. We're not a big enough club to get the best players on the market. It's pretty simple.

CarolynSmith

Great win over the Hammers, now Spurs need to beat the Carrier Bags tonight but keep something in reserve.... Big test against Chelsea at the Lane coming up.

Kiith

Ormus wrote: »

I never said we were supposed to sign world class players. How did you get that from anything I said?

Someone said we don't make top class signings anymore, I said we never really did. We're not a big enough club to get the best players on the market. It's pretty simple.

Ah my bad, i thought you meant we should be signing better players then the likes of Lloris, Modric etc...which isn't really doable under our current circumstances.

2nd Row Donkey

Ormus wrote:

. I suspect you got confused.

This must be your favourite line to pull out in any argument/debate. It's very condescending but I must admit it always gives me a chuckle.

Ormus

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

This must be your favourite line to pull out in any argument/debate. It's very condescending but I must admit it always gives me a chuckle.

It's not a line! He forgot what we were talking about.

We were talking about signings at the time they were signed, not whether they turned out to be great.