**Spoilers** Series 9, Episode 10 - "Face the Raven"

pixelburp

Fair to say last weeks episode was divisive at best, and certainly I found its found-footage gimmick making the experience quesy to boot; this week seems more 'normal' anyway, and apparently see the Doctor go up against the Raven King - a Jonathan Strange crossover no less

Another trailer indicates that we see the return of

Ashildr / Me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI2d3J2VZWQ

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I am not looking forward to this episode. Not one bit.

pixelburp

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I am not looking forward to this episode. Not one bit.

Oh, how come?

Wibbs

Jenna Coleman leaves in this one apparently.

Caught the end of Capaldi on the Graham Norton show and that's what he said.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Wibbs wrote: »

Jenna Coleman leaves in this one apparently.

Caught the end of Capaldi on the Graham Norton show and that's what he said.

Exactly. I had a feeling anyway but now we know for sure.

Angron

And that's that.

I honestly had expected the raven to not kill Clara for some reason or the other. I'm really curious as to how the Doctor is going to be over the coming episodes now.

Professey Chin

Clara

Lord TSC

Thought it was good.

Clara's greatest character flaw was she was always, always trying to emulate The Doctor, but never being quiet as good. And in the end, that desire to be The Doctor without having the experience or the knowledge of him is what lead to her death. Like it from a character death, though probably the bottom of "Companions leave forever" list.

That was a really good episode and a really decent send off
It had the magic, the aliens, the otherworldiness, the doctor going into one of his I AM THE DOCTOR!!!!! rages and everything
and she died saving someone else or what she thought she was

Das Kitty

Wibbs wrote: »

Jenna Coleman leaves in this one apparently.

Caught the end of Capaldi on the Graham Norton show and that's what he said.

Glad I didn't watch that!

Overall I enjoyed it. I would have cut about half of the final scene out. I think it would have had more of an emotional impact of it was quicker.

Angron

Das Kitty wrote: »

Glad I didn't watch that!

Overall I enjoyed it. I would have cut about half of the final scene out. I think it would have had more of an emotional impact of it was quicker.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree, it did start to feel like they were dragging it out a bit. That's why I was thinking what I mentioned above, that they'd (to use a wrestling term) swerve the fans again.

SueBoom

Ah jesus.

Ginny

Only 2 episodes left right?
I sorta copped from the first scene it was her episode to go, the shoehorning in of "oh look at the adventures Clara and the Dr. Are having off screen" gave it away.
Props to them for not having her scream "I'm coming for you Danny..." (bit more of Dr. 10 thing I suppose )
I am intrigued to see who the next companion is, I'm assuming it will be the usual Christmas non companion and the proper real one next year.
I'd love a companion, just a bog standard companion who has fun with the Dr. and challenges him on occasion, not a Dr. Donna (although I did love that partnership), not the impossible girl, not Rose and her teeth, not the mother of the Drs future wife..much as I've loved them all.

martingriff

With the invisible street I was wondering if they would make a Harry Potter joke but alas no (it was the first thing to pop in my head. Oh well. Great episode had not seen any trailers or nothing but from the way Clara was over the episode from the opening to hanging out the tardis to Doctor 101 you knew it was the end or the start of the end. I say however he is been teleported to

Missy I have heard

better be rather as if he hated ME he is going to despise them

(especially if it is Missy after Clara and the Darlek)

martingriff

Ginny wrote: »

Only 2 episodes left right?
I sorta copped from the first scene it was her episode to go, the shoehorning in of "oh look at the adventures Clara and the Dr. Are having off screen" gave it away.
Props to them for not having her scream "I'm coming for you Danny..." (bit more of Dr. 10 thing I suppose )
I am intrigued to see who the next companion is, I'm assuming it will be the usual Christmas non companion and the proper real one next year.
I'd love a companion, just a bog standard companion who has fun with the Dr. and challenges him on occasion, not a Dr. Donna (although I did love that partnership), not the impossible girl, not Rose and her teeth, not the mother of the Drs future wife..much as I've loved them all.

Maisie Williams has been rumored as has (played Igrid on GOT) Osgood also I think Michele Keegan was rumored or even Rigsby.

CastorTroy

Clara's the first companion to die since the relaunch, isn't she? Not counting the one offs like Kylie, or the early Clara's. And not just die, but have her soul taken.

Didn't seem to have the impact I thought it would. Still sad to see her go.

And am I the only one who wouldn't like to know in advance that someone is leaving. Imagine the surprise when a companion dies/leaves or the Doctor regenerates, without everyone knowing the actor was leaving the show.

jasonb

Very good episode, excellent acting, which is almost expected really, Capaldi and Coleman were very good together.

I thought her death was done excellently, apart from the multiple shots of her screaming after the Raven hit, one shot was enough, the 3rd or 4th one was just distracting. Was glad she mentioned Danny, and I like that she didn't die to save the world, or to stop a massive invasion. She died so a guy could go home to his wife and daughter.

I also liked her just trying to be brave at the end, even saying it out loud, let me be brave...

J.

martingriff

CastorTroy wrote: »

Clara's the first companion to die since the relaunch, isn't she? Not counting the one offs like Kylie, or the early Clara's. And not just die, but have her soul taken.

Didn't seem to have the impact I thought it would. Still sad to see her go.

And am I the only one who wouldn't like to know in advance that someone is leaving. Imagine the surprise when a companion dies/leaves or the Doctor regenerates, without everyone knowing the actor was leaving the show.

In the world of the internet talk shows and celebrity news not going to happen. A character leaving will always be knows how they will go/die you will need to stay away from the aboves to make sure it does not spoil

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I've just watched it... I need some time....

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

So, I've taken some time to compose myself.... and these are my thoughts...

I've loved Clara from her first appearance and although I admit her character didn't work that well with Matt Smith as soon as Capaldi came on board it changed my opinion of the show entirely. I've said it a million times but this is probably the last time it'll be relevant, I LOVED Capaldi and Coleman together. I think we actually got to see them develop the Doctor and Clara's relationship from scratch almost, which made last night's episode that much sadder for me.

All through the Matt Smith era with Clara we were repeatedly banged over the head with the idea that Clara was the most important person in the Doctor's life but it never really rang true. The relationship that developed between Capaldi's Doctor and Clara on the other hand was believably a very important one for him, and for much simpler reasons than her jumping into his timeline. She was his best friend, she helped him be a better person, he loved her. Very believable human traits that were allowed to develop over their 2 series together. I'm sad just thinking about it.

I do have one or two tiny issues with the episode, the slow motion multiple angles of Clara's death were unnecessary and killed the moment a little bit. The music playing over it all too was pushing it a tiny bit too. I know it's a family show though so to have Clara screaming in agony as she dies the only sound you hear at the end, well, it might have been a bit too much for the little uns.

I think they could have developed Clara's suicidal tendencies a bit more too but again it's a family show and even if they didn't show it all the time it was pretty well signposted throughout the series. I have to keep reminding myself it's not a late night grown up TV show. I would have loved to have seen more simple human interaction type stories with the Doctor and Clara without the inevitable Lion man or other nonsense thrown in. I think that's when Clara was at her best, when she was connecting with people and resolving to save them. Which leads to her death, which I also took slight issue with. I wish they had made it so she could give it back to Riggsy but it still wouldn't have been breakable. That way she would have actually been sacrificing herself so he could go home to his family. As it was it was just an extremely stupid decision and accidental death but I suppose that's what they were going for, her trying to be the Doctor and it finally backfiring.

So there we have it, I know Clara is probably the most divisive of the New Who companions but she was my absolute favourite and I think Coleman is a fantastic actress who really got to shine once they brought Capaldi on board and I shall miss her terribly. I'm going to see out this series and probably the Christmas episode and I don't know beyond that. We shall see.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CastorTroy wrote: »

And am I the only one who wouldn't like to know in advance that someone is leaving. Imagine the surprise when a companion dies/leaves or the Doctor regenerates, without everyone knowing the actor was leaving the show.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Other than watching the show this forum is the only place I interact re: Doctor Who and only ever after an episode has aired. I avoid twitter on a Saturday night until I've seen the episode, I don't follow any Who related accounts, I don't read TV mags or anything like that. And yet I still knew for certain Coleman was leaving months ago and then that it was this week specifically. I was walking past Easons the other day and their magazine section is next to the door and her face was on at least 3 big magazines. Then they've got Capaldi appearing on TV/Radio to promote an episode mid season. I mean... I spent most of the past few weeks preparing myself for each episode just in case it was the one where Clara left and then this week, despite my best efforts, I knew before I even watched it.

I remember a few years ago too when Smith was still the Doctor it had been revealed that he'd signed on for another year, or maybe it was that he would regenerate at Christmas, I can't remember. Point being there was an episode that was making it look like he was going to die/regenerate but we all knew he wasn't going to so it took any sense of suspense or anticipation out of the episode.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Great episode, following last week's disaster. I'm very sad to see Clara go - she's the companion I've been most attached to so far since the '05 re-launch. Not to mention I've had a crush on Jenna Coleman since she joined Emmerdale 10 years ago, so it's a sad sad day for me.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

Great episode, following last week's disaster. I'm very sad to see Clara go - she's the companion I've been most attached to so far since the '05 re-launch. Not to mention I've had a crush on Jenna Coleman since she joined Emmerdale 10 years ago, so it's a sad sad day for me.

Lucky she won't be off screen for too long. She's got some role in a film out earlyish next year and then that Victoria thing, I presume, will replace Downton next Autumn.

Witchie

Just watched last night's episode and sobbed my heart out. I hoped that Clara would leave alive and go live a normal life somewhere and pop in from time to time. Dammit.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Do we think there's still some kind of twist in it?

We started the series with the Doctor's confession dial and him and Clara not having seen one another for a while. There was a moment in the first episode where Clara said "Which one of us is about to die" and the Doctor just made a sad face....

I don't really know that I want there to be a twist, to be honest, it's a sad ending but it worked.

jasonb

I hadn't heard anything in advance, but once I realised that this could be the one where she leaves (and all the hints pointed to her dying rather than staying behind), part of me was wondering if there would be a twist. They definitely left it as long as possible before she breathed out the black smoke, to show she'd died.

Of course, being Who, she could still come back. Part of me still thinks there's something going on with her being in the Dalek from the start of the season. And you know what Moffat is like, even Capaldi being on Graham Norton could have been to get people to believe she's really dead, when she's not.

All that said, I think it was a very sad, but good ending, and sometimes, especially in the wibbly wobbly world of Who, it's good to get something clear cut every now and then, so a twist would feel like it was cheating a bit to me.

J.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jasonb wrote: »

I hadn't heard anything in advance, but once I realised that this could be the one where she leaves (and all the hints pointed to her dying rather than staying behind), part of me was wondering if there would be a twist. They definitely left it as long as possible before she breathed out the black smoke, to show she'd died.

Of course, being Who, she could still come back. Part of me still thinks there's something going on with her being in the Dalek from the start of the season. And you know what Moffat is like, even Capaldi being on Graham Norton could have been to get people to believe she's really dead, when she's not.

All that said, I think it was a very sad, but good ending, and sometimes, especially in the wibbly wobbly world of Who, it's good to get something clear cut every now and then, so a twist would feel like it was cheating a bit to me.

J.

I was saying to myself... she hasn't breathed out the smoke, she hasn't breathed out the smoke.... oh, she's dead.

I suppose it depends on what direction they want to go with the show now. Companions leave all the time but mostly it's possible for the Doctor to pop in and out to see them, even if we don't see it on screen. Clara being dead dead means she's gone, although I suppose it's possible he could go back into her timeline, and maybe he has.

I think her being completely 100% dead would open up more interesting aspects of the Doctor's character and very much influence any future companion relationships. That said the show is already much darker than previous series so I'm not sure they'd want to go much further down that route.

I didn't really understand what was going on with the Impossible Girl stuff but is there other versions of Clara still running around through time and space?

jasonb

Ha, part of the reason why I think it might be good (or at least somewhat simple) if she is actually dead is that I still don't fully grasp her whole timeline, her story is harder to follow than the Doctor's! At least if she's now dead, as much as I'll miss her (I thought she was very good, and very cute too) at least I'll understand one part of her story completely (i.e. when and how she died!).

They're definitely setting up the 'next time' trailer to show him on his own, angry at her death, but who knows with Who?

J.

SimonTemplar

Clara's death was completely unspoiled for me. I know Jenna Coleman was leaving but I expected her departure in the season finale or the Christmas special, so her death came as a complete shock.

I actually disliked her quite a lot during the Smith era, but I really came to admire her during the last season. She was so much better as Capaldi's companion and the two had a great dynamic together. Amy was Smith true companion, and likewise Clara was Capaldi's

So, the fact that I felt awful after watching the episode made me realise how much I liked Clara, but I think the manner of her death was very well handled. She didn't die due to a mass alien invasion or a dalek battle. She didn't die due to a mistake made by the Doctor. Her death was entirely her own fault, an attempt to outsmart something she didn't fully understand - to be more like the Doctor. The moment where she was quietly repeating "be brave" was really heartbreaking. She always had such zest for life, and the character didn't deserve to die, but narratively it was the correct decision. As mentioned by others, the multiple shots of her screaming was a little excessive, once would have been enough, although I like the decision not to hear her scream out in pain - I felt it gave her a more dignified end.

It will be very interesting to see how the next companion will be. I can't imagine anyone having such an important influence on Capaldi's Doctor as Clara.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

SimonTemplar wrote: »

It will be very interesting to see how the next companion will be. I can't imagine anyone having such an important influence on Capaldi's Doctor as Clara.

The reaction to Clara initially was fairly mixed but a lot of people (on the internet) had written her off before she started because she wasn't Amy. That should have changed once Capaldi took over but some still seemed to really hate her. So I guess for some they'll be looking forward to a new companion. Personally I hate the idea of someone other than Clara being in the Tardis with Capaldi so they're going to have to work really hard to win me over. Even just in terms of level of performance week in week out I think Capaldi/Coleman really raised the bar so they're going to have to cast someone really bloody talented regardless of who/what their character is.

I wouldn't mind seeing no permanent companion for a while. A lot of the episodes last series seemed like they were auditioning a new companion every week so maybe they could just have the Doctor pop in and out to a few old faces for a while before settling on someone. Or, he could use Rigsy as a sort of gateway companion for a few episodes. Rigsy feels guilty about what happened to Clara so tries to keep an eye on him for a while but eventually tells the Doctor he needs to move on. Sort of ease us into a new companion too.

The Randy Riverbeast

CastorTroy wrote: »

Clara's the first companion to die since the relaunch, isn't she? Not counting the one offs like Kylie, or the early Clara's. And not just die, but have her soul taken.

Didn't seem to have the impact I thought it would. Still sad to see her go.

And am I the only one who wouldn't like to know in advance that someone is leaving. Imagine the surprise when a companion dies/leaves or the Doctor regenerates, without everyone knowing the actor was leaving the show.

I try to, otherwise I know that nobody is going to die so stop wasting my time pretending someone is actually at risk. I expected Jemma to be leaving soon but when the guy before the episode mentions the doctor losing someone I just swore at the TV.