=Syrian Refugees for Dungarvan=

seanaway

Wanted to ask if anyone else has heard the rumour that some of the Syrian refugees are to be housed at a well known premises at Clonea Beach?

If this is true then local politicians have been VERY quiet about this.

Ciara, John et al...

Any comments on this?

If true, someone needs their head examined and their judgement questioned.

1. Why Clonea? Is this a quick buck for the premises in question?
2. Do you realise there is NOTHING out there for refugees to do day to day?
3. If they need to get in to Dungarvan, how do they? Bus? who pays?
Walk? It's a nice walk but not when you are forced to do it daily just to have something to do -and let's not forget that most of these misfortunates have had to walk far enough to reach safety - don't heap this insult on them by lodging them miles from anywhere.
4. Do you realise the impact this would have on the local community and tourism?
5. Do you know there is an election next year (Not that Ciara cares as she knows she'll be out anyway)

tessabee

yes i have heard that refugees are going to be housed in clonea, I have heard it from quiet a few people. Nice quiet area for them, better than in the middle of town, the local people had a bicycle collection a few weeks ago where they collected lots of bicycles for the refugees. Feelings from locals in the area are very positive and are happy to help.

sunshine and showers

Refugees being housed in any large premises around the country isn't going to be on a long term basis. It's to give the poor people a chance to get their bearings and work out what they're going to do now they've landed in a strange country.

The same rumour is going around about Dundalk. The racists have crawled out from whatever rock they live under and all of a sudden seem to care very much about Irish homeless people (they think "look after our own first" is a better way of saying "I don't want them foreigners living near me"). People were saying there are already refugees IN the rumoured place in Dundalk. It's been abandoned for a year and was only bought two weeks ago. According to the papers it doesn't even have gas or heat yet, and one of our TDs said he went to see it and it's empty, but people still insist they saw refugees being smuggled in to a dark hotel at midnight holding sleeping bags. Not a single one of these "already there" refugees has been seen. They must be invisible.

The orientation centres are being set up around the country. The Department of Justice is still going through the tender process, afaik. Nothing has been confirmed/announced for any centres yet, so all of this about Clonea/Dundalk/anywhere else is pure guess work, tbh. TDs can't talk about things they haven't got a clue about yet.

There are four thousand people expected to arrive over the next two years - hotels are probably the most sensible place to house people for the few months it takes to get them sorted out with beginning their new lives. The government will pay for a bus for them to civilization if Clonea is so isolated.

Moral of the story: don't believe everything you hear, and people make up really f*cking stupid rumours in this country.

archieknox

Yes its strongly rumoured around the town that they will be based in the houses beside the GAA pitch out there.

seanaway

tessabee wrote: »

yes i have heard that refugees are going to be housed in clonea, I have heard it from quiet a few people. Nice quiet area for them, better than in the middle of town, the local people had a bicycle collection a few weeks ago where they collected lots of bicycles for the refugees. Feelings from locals in the area are very positive and are happy to help.

How come this hasn't been in the papers or announced to the public by local politicians then?

Who has been collecting bicycles and where was this advertised?

So you think a 'nice quiet are for them' is what they need? 'Better than in the middle of town'?

Would you care to tell the public what your qualifications are to make such a statement and just exactly how you come by all the 'information' you have put here.

I ask because it's news to me and what you say is not what I have been hearing. In fact , I have heard a lot of locals are not at all happy, especially as there has been ZERO public consultation and NOTHING in local papers.

Wonder of you would be in any way associated with any local politicians or said establishment?

Would you care to publicly state how many bicycles have been collected and how this was arranged? Also, would you care to say how many people are coming? After all, someone MUST know if they were collecting bicycles for them. And they must also know how many children's bicyles they would need.

NOW, who I wonder would have known all this in advance and why hasn't there been a public announcement on it???

BTW - did you also manage to find out if winter clothing and reflective wear/lighting for said bicycles was collected at he same time?

Sounds to me like you're spoofin'

tessabee

Deise Refugee Response were the group collecting bikes, in connection with Go Dungarvan i think. May i state i have nothing to do with any politicans or any establishment, you asked if anyone heard this rumour that was going around and yes i did and people seem very much ok about it in the area from what i hear., but then agai i WOULD NOT know. Good luck to everyone that are trying to help in any way.

seanaway

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Refugees being housed in any large premises around the country isn't going to be on a long term basis. It's to give the poor people a chance to get their bearings and work out what they're going to do now they've landed in a strange country.

The same rumour is going around about Dundalk. The racists have crawled out from whatever rock they live under and all of a sudden seem to care very much about Irish homeless people (they think "look after our own first" is a better way of saying "I don't want them foreigners living near me"). People were saying there are already refugees IN the rumoured place in Dundalk. It's been abandoned for a year and was only bought two weeks ago. According to the papers it doesn't even have gas or heat yet, and one of our TDs said he went to see it and it's empty, but people still insist they saw refugees being smuggled in to a dark hotel at midnight holding sleeping bags. Not a single one of these "already there" refugees has been seen. They must be invisible.

The orientation centres are being set up around the country. The Department of Justice is still going through the tender process, afaik. Nothing has been confirmed/announced for any centres yet, so all of this about Clonea/Dundalk/anywhere else is pure guess work, tbh. TDs can't talk about things they haven't got a clue about yet.

There are four thousand people expected to arrive over the next two years - hotels are probably the most sensible place to house people for the few months it takes to get them sorted out with beginning their new lives. The government will pay for a bus for them to civilization if Clonea is so isolated.

Moral of the story: don't believe everything you hear, and people make up really f*cking stupid rumours in this country.

a)So bicycles are being collected for no reason?
b)Who said anything about racists? If you read the question it is about who the f*ck thought it was a good idea to put them in the middle of nowhere - not that you may/may not know the area.
c) Bicycles are NOT the answer for people who have been through what they have been through. How would you fancy coming to a new country, being given €17 a week and then be told 'Oh and you have to cycle into a town 5 km away to get your weekly razor'?
d) To quote you: ' people make up really f*cking stupid rumours in this country' - Yes, they do...and that includes people who shout 'Racist' at the first common sense question asked about refugees. There is work ongoing at said premises and if no refugees are coming then why were bicycles being collected for them? Anwser that please if you can?

Now back to the original question.


IF this is true..and bicycles HAVE been collected for them...WHY have NO local politicians of ANY persuasion either not been told or have chosen to keep quiet????

Let's see:

FG - oohh... might hit the vote/might look good....say the opposite to Enda and should be ok meself
Labour: oohh... sure won't make any difference as seat already lost and as usual will wait to see which way the wind blows.
SF: All welcome so no point in talking about it - we're all socialists at heart etc...
IND: Sit and wait (or possibly/probably this will be news to them as well)

seanaway

tessabee wrote: »

yes i have heard that refugees are going to be housed in clonea, I have heard it from quiet a few people. Nice quiet area for them, better than in the middle of town, the local people had a bicycle collection a few weeks ago where they collected lots of bicycles for the refugees. Feelings from locals in the area are very positive and are happy to help.

Fair enough.Apologies for running rough shod over your answer but it REALLY gets my back up when people think it's a good idea to just dump refugees in the middle of nowhere. No consultation with locals means no integration and the hostility towards those who mislead can and does often lead to hostility to those who need help most.

(and your reply did smack a little of a politico sidekick but apologies again for jumping on you)

sunshine and showers

seanaway wrote: »

a)So bicycles are being collected for no reason?
b)Who said anything about racists? If you read the question it is about who the f*ck thought it was a good idea to put them in the middle of nowhere - not that you may/may not know the area.
c) Bicycles are NOT the answer for people who have been through what they have been through. How would you fancy coming to a new country, being given €17 a week and then be told 'Oh and you have to cycle into a town 5 km away to get your weekly razor'?
d) To quote you: ' people make up really f*cking stupid rumours in this country' - Yes, they do...and that includes people who shout 'Racist' at the first common sense question asked about refugees. There is work ongoing at said premises and if no refugees are coming then why were bicycles being collected for them? Anwser that please if you can?

Now back to the original question.


IF this is true..and bicycles HAVE been collected for them...WHY have NO local politicians of ANY persuasion either not been told or have chosen to keep quiet????

Let's see:

FG - oohh... might hit the vote/might look good....say the opposite to Enda and should be ok meself
Labour: oohh... sure won't make any difference as seat already lost and as usual will wait to see which way the wind blows.
SF: All welcome so no point in talking about it - we're all socialists at heart etc...
IND: Sit and wait (or possibly/probably this will be news to them as well)

Woah, I didn't say anything about you or your question being racist! Read my answer - I said similar rumours in another part of the country had led to racist comments. I also said all these rumours are so far unfounded - including in Dungarvan.

The bikes could be being collected for refugees abroad. They could be for asylum seekers already in Ireland. Have you asked those collecting them why they were doing so? Maybe they're in anticipation of the thousands of refugees Ireland has agreed to take and will be given around the country to them when they arrive.

Bicycles would NOT be given to refugees as their only form of transport, no matter what part of the country they're in. A group allegedly collected them, not the government!

Again, given that there have been no official decisions made by the government on the centres to house refugees in once they arrive in Ireland, you are jumping to A LOT of conclusions.

Lemon_Drop

I never heard of this until now,
Nothing in the Local Papers, or any Media.
But I'm not surprised really.
Hotels seem to be the target location for housing refugees, like the situation that happened in Kildare.

Link Below.
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/refugees-ireland-locals-say-werent-6403034

As for the location in Clonea being better than the middle of Town, I would agree with that only if i owned the Hotel is question.
With everything being done in this Country. The policy seems to be on no account inform the local public of what is happening and let them deal with the events after they happen.

With the mention of the word Refugee, a lot of people think that if you don't agree with the way things are being done, out comes the race card.

Dungarvan and the people that live here have a track record with refugees, its not the first time we had them as guests.

And the last time I think it was well organised and the local people got involved.

This time, its a case of tell nobody.....Sad really,

But it seems to be controlled on a national basis....where the decisions are made by someone who does not have a clue of where Clonea or Dungarvan actually are located.

Or maybe I'm missing something.

seanaway

Time will tell.... what's the bet it will happen after the election though? Worse luck for the poor people at the wrong end of a long walk.

TheQuietFella

After a week in Dungarvan they'll be dying to get back home!

Isn't that the idea anyway?

archieknox

I think alot of people in the area might be more comfortable if it was transparent from the start and if they were consulted about the process but it seems that it has just been pushed on people and that always smells of something not being right. Don't be surprised to hear of a public meeting being held shortly to air locals grievances.

seanaway

archieknox wrote: »

I think alot of people in the area might be more comfortable if it was transparent from the start and if they were consulted about the process but it seems that it has just been pushed on people and that always smells of something not being right. Don't be surprised to hear of a public meeting being held shortly to air locals grievances.

Agree 100%...I believe the vast majority of people would be fine helping these poor guys. It's the sneaky politicos and their sidekicks that make it seedy and unappealing.

tomwaterford

TheQuietFella wrote: »

After a week in Dungarvan they'll be dying to get back home!

Isn't that the idea anyway?

It'll be like home with crashing helicopters and all :pac:


(I apologise for distasteful joke)



But in all reality....it'll be nice for them hopefully they'll integrate well into the community and that even a basic mosque can be gotten if necessary!

lertsnim

archieknox wrote: »

Yes its strongly rumoured around the town that they will be based in the houses beside the GAA pitch out there.

They are not going to the Gold Coast which is where the GAA pitch is.

tazwaz

I think it's the big hush hush thing that's really annoyed a lot of people. According to a person I spoke with in the local council the council have nothing to do with it so clonea must have dealt with an organisation privately...don't know how true that is 😯
I hope it goes well for everyone but I agree with an above poster, clonea isn't the right place for them, they'll be very isolated with no transport as I presume since this has nothing to do with the council they won't be laying on transport? They'd be better off in the town with better access to things.

seanaway

Well that's weird. If it's true the council have said this then they know more than Paudie Coffey who knew sweet F all on Deise AM today. His reaction was partiicularly troubling though and demonstrated how out of touch he is with reality.

He went into what could only be described as defensive mode and when asked if it were true that refugees were coming to West Waterford he started ranting on about people being checked before they come here atc...as if it people were screaming about terrorists. Sounded like he was repeating something that he had been coached on.

His answer was basically no decision had been made. Now if that's true why is property being done up?

As usual, politicos and their civil servant masters are ignoring the ones who pay their salaries.

tazwaz

seanaway wrote: »

Well that's weird. If it's true the council have said this then they know more than Paudie Coffey who knew sweet F all on Deise AM today. His reaction was partiicularly troubling though and demonstrated how out of touch he is with reality.

He went into what could only be described as defensive mode and when asked if it were true that refugees were coming to West Waterford he started ranting on about people being checked before they come here atc...as if it people were screaming about terrorists. Sounded like he was repeating something that he had been coached on.

His answer was basically no decision had been made. Now if that's true why is property being done up?

As usual, politicos and their civil servant masters are ignoring the ones who pay their salaries.

Sorry I edited my earlier post. I heard paudie Coffey ranting on deise am this morning, he really got defensive about it didn't he? And he's saying he knows nothing either. Are all our local politicians lying to us or have they really no knowledge of it? I can't see them all lying when we have an election in only a few months, maybe I'm being naive 😦 It's really getting me more convinced that the hotel have arranged a little earner for themselves, and of course they not saying a word.

seanaway

tazwaz wrote: »

Sorry I edited my earlier post. I heard paudie Coffey ranting on deise am this morning, he really got defensive about it didn't he? And he's saying he knows nothing either. Are all our local politicians lying to us or have they really no knowledge of it? I can't see them all lying when we have an election in only a few months, maybe I'm being naive 😦 It's really getting me more convinced that the hotel have arranged a little earner for themselves, and of course they not saying a word.

If they don't know they should. If they do know then the public will find out and, hopefully, pay them back at election time.

The wonderful thing about all this is the silence unless questioned. Then they seem to go into 'deny and play down' mode. Coffey was an absolute disgrace this morning..... shoddy opinion he has of his own constituents if all he could talk about was vetting refugees before they come in case they're terrorists. What an insulting and, frankly, IDIOTIC comment to make. And this is Minister of State material??? God help us.

Oddly, Ms Ciara "No, really I AM a socialist" Conway hasn't been seen or heard of in any of this. Probably getting her CV ready for after the election. Hell, she might even get a job giving the poor sods lifts from clonea to town.

MarkK

I am confused as to why there would need to be public consultation before people stay in a hotel.

seanaway

MarkK wrote: »

I am confused as to why there would need to be public consultation before people stay in a hotel.

You have read the title of the thread I take it???

MarkK

seanaway wrote: »

You have read the title of the thread I take it???

Yes, I've read the thread.

If they were putting up prefabs to house people I can understand a requirement for consultation. If they are just using the existing hotel, what is there to consult on?

Poor Uncle Tom

MarkK wrote: »

If they are just using the existing hotel, what is there to consult on?

If the people using the hotel (or any accommodation facility for that matter) are expected to integrate in any meaningful manner in the local community, then I would expect that as a minimum the local community should be informed and consulted on the matter. It makes sense that it would make the transition less traumatic on both sides, rather than just landing any group of people in the midst of any community without a word to anyone and expecting everyone to just accept it.

It smacks of a money making exercise for someone, that seems to be the reality.

seanaway

MarkK wrote: »

Yes, I've read the thread.

If they were putting up prefabs to house people I can understand a requirement for consultation. If they are just using the existing hotel, what is there to consult on?

Issue of public interest. What resources will be required to help these guys? Where is the funding for said resoureces coming from and how was this property chosen?
What transport will they be provided with so as to ensure they are not isolated?
Are any of school age and how will this impact on local schools? What language provision will be provided? Hopefully, they will provide professional lessons and not some of the dreadful FETAC stuff from the ETB.

If any require psychological help (and logic would assume most will need some) will this be provided out of existing resources or will extra funds be made available?

If they are to be settled here on a permanent basis, where are the properties coming from and who funds these?

How long will they be at this 'temporary' location before being settled?

Beginning to see why consultation would not only be common courtesy but also essential to make sure that everyone knows how this will impact the local community and resources as well as ensuring that refugees are not just dumped and left to fend for themselves. Much more to this than meets the eye.

Last shower of tossers in the Dail did exactly this and left families split and isolated from each other without any resource or support.

seanaway

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

If the people using the hotel (or any accommodation facility for that matter) are expected to integrate in any meaningful manner in the local community, then I would expect that as a minimum the local community should be informed and consulted on the matter. It makes sense that it would make the transition less traumatic on both sides, rather than just landing any group of people in the midst of any community without a word to anyone and expecting everyone to just accept it.

It smacks of a money making exercise for someone, that seems to be the reality.

Well said. My question would be how are these places chosen? I don't remember seeing any adverts in papers about provision of housing .

MarkK

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

If the people using the hotel (or any accommodation facility for that matter) are expected to integrate in any meaningful manner in the local community ...

and if it is just a reception center where people will stay before being placed in long term accommodation?

Poor Uncle Tom

MarkK wrote: »

and if it is just a reception center where people will stay before being placed in long term accommodation?

You see Mark, that's the entire problem right there. Nobody has been given any information, good or bad, they are just expected to accept any scenario which is thrown at them.

Are you stating that the hotel is going to be used as a reception center? For how long? Where did this information come from?

MarkK

seanaway wrote: »

Issue of public interest. What resources will be required to help these guys? Where is the funding for said resoureces coming from and how was this property chosen?
What transport will they be provided with so as to ensure they are not isolated?
Are any of school age and how will this impact on local schools? What language provision will be provided? Hopefully, they will provide professional lessons and not some of the dreadful FETAC stuff from the ETB.

If any require psychological help (and logic would assume most will need some) will this be provided out of existing resources or will extra funds be made available?

If they are to be settled here on a permanent basis, where are the properties coming from and who funds these?

How long will they be at this 'temporary' location before being settled?

Beginning to see why consultation would not only be common courtesy but also essential to make sure that everyone knows how this will impact the local community and resources as well as ensuring that refugees are not just dumped and left to fend for themselves. Much more to this than meets the eye.

Last shower of tossers in the Dail did exactly this and left families split and isolated from each other without any resource or support.

Information on how the reception centres are funded, chosen, managed and how psychological and educational needs will be met should be made public.

None of that seems to be specifically "Dungarvan" related, so I don't see a need for a local consultation in each location.

I wouldn't expect that refugee children would be sent to attend local schools from a reception center.

MarkK

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

You see Mark, that's the entire problem right there. Nobody has been given any information, good or bad, they are just expected to accept any scenario which is thrown at them.

Are you stating that the hotel is going to be used as a reception center? For how long? Where did this information come from?

I went to http://www.clonea.com/ and guessed.

If there is a scenario to complain about, then fair enough.
So far I don't see any evidence of one.

Poor Uncle Tom

MarkK wrote: »

I went to http://www.clonea.com/ and guessed.

You could equally visit that site and, because the hotel is closed, guess that because the hotel is empty someone decided they would cash in on this by putting refugees in an area with insufficient amenities to deal with them.

But maybe your opinion is more valid than mine, after all I have no information to work from.

MarkK wrote: »

If there is a scenario to complain about, then fair enough.
So far I don't see any evidence of one.

How do we know, we have no information to work from. However, if what we seem to be hedging around is going to happen, that is, to place refugees miles outside of an urban center, without informing the local rural community and then expect all to be well and integration to go swimmingly, so that one particular business can thrive.

Mark, it's naive to think that scenario won't lead to complaints which will only damage the business involved. After all, why support a business who will sneak around in the shadows to attempt to force a situation down the throats of the local community without even as much as a meeting to explain what's happening, all to boost the profit books without a thought for integration with the local community.