=Syrian Refugees for Dungarvan=

MarkK

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

How do we know, we have no information to work from.

Indeed we don't know, so how can you conclude that a situation is being forced down peoples throats if you don't know what it actually is?
Anyone living Clonea must be used to the area being invaded by outsiders.
The hotel has been there for at least 70 years as far as I know.

It seems that if Clonea is an orientation centre they would not be expected to "integrate" locally. They will be expected to integrate at the site of their long term accommodation.

from the IRISH TIMES wrote:

"... the former Hazel Hotel in Monasterevin, Co Kildare, which is operating as a reception and orientation centre.

They will typically spend three months in such centres where they can receive help with English language and other skills to help them prepare to move into communities across the State. "
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-s-refugee-programme-how-will-it-work-1.2347377

I also don't get why they would need to visit Dungarvan town centre frequently, if they have next to no money what would they want to go there for?

Poor Uncle Tom

MarkK wrote: »

Indeed we don't know, so how can you conclude that a situation is being forced down peoples throats if you don't know what it actually is?

Then why not tell the locals what is going on? where is the fear in that, if it's soo innocent?

MarkK wrote: »

Anyone living Clonea must be used to the area being invaded by outsiders.
The hotel has been there for at least 70 years as far as I know.

Huge difference between tipping your hat in the direction of a tourist and greeting a person (most likely part of a wider family) who has made a local building their home for the forseeable future, don't you think?

MarkK wrote: »

It seems that if Clonea is an orientation centre they would not be expected to "integrate" locally. They will be expected to integrate at the site of their long term accommodation.

It seems that you have quite a bit of information that the locals arn't privvy to. You mentioned about visiting the website for the hotel and guessing what was happening, is that the case or do you actually know, Mark K?

MarkK wrote: »

I also don't get why they would need to visit Dungarvan town centre frequently, if they have next to no money what would they want to go there for?

This is a very telling comment. THEY, are not cattle Mark, those refugees are people, like us all, with the very same wants, needs, hopes and dreams who have been displaced. Does everybody have to spend money every time they visit an urban centre? Can they not visit the shops without spending money? Can people not visit a town just to see the sights, walk the streets, experience the atmosphere, let the children play in the parks and playgrounds? It's called social integration Mark, how can you defend one side of an arguement if you don't understand the concept to begin with?

seanaway

MarkK wrote: »

Information on how the reception centres are funded, chosen, managed and how psychological and educational needs will be met should be made public.

None of that seems to be specifically "Dungarvan" related, so I don't see a need for a local consultation in each location.

I wouldn't expect that refugee children would be sent to attend local schools from a reception center.

There is a need as it will impact each locality differently. Depends on numbers/size of locality/background and cross section of refugees etc... As I said, it would also be plain common courtesy.

seanaway

MarkK wrote: »

I went to http://www.clonea.com/ and guessed.

If there is a scenario to complain about, then fair enough.
So far I don't see any evidence of one.

If you're local pop out and see for yourself. Heck of alot of money to spend on a hotel and say nought about it.

Look at it this way. If you owned a hotel and were spending money on doing it up for tourists wouldn't you think it would be good business sense to be shouting it frm the rooftops about what a great place it will be to book?

seanaway

MarkK wrote: »

I also don't get why they would need to visit Dungarvan town centre frequently, if they have next to no money what would they want to go there for?

You've clearly never been to one of the 'reception' centres before. Let's look at it this way. If you went to a hotel somewhere like Clonea, how long do you think you would stay just there before getting cabin fever?

beyondbelief67

http://www.waterford-news.ie/2015/11/27/syrian-refugees-to-be-accommodated-in-clonea-strand-hotel/


For the person who thinks children don't go to local schools, they do, same as all local children, at least they do in tramore, and be in and. Around tramore, like everyone else!
It works in tramore why not in dungarvan?

seanaway

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

http://www.waterford-news.ie/2015/11/27/syrian-refugees-to-be-accommodated-in-clonea-strand-hotel/


For the person who thinks children don't go to local schools, they do, same as all local children, at least they do in tramore, and be in and. Around tramore, like everyone else!
It works in tramore why not in dungarvan?

If you know Dungarvan then you'll know Clonea is nowhere near it. that's the issue. Refugees are being dumped there not placed in Dungarvan. And as predicted by myself and others - NO consultation with local people and NO info on how this is going to work

tessabee

it is only for 8 to 10 weeks per group as some are traumatised and need some counselling

tessabee

This is what was stated on todays news

seanaway

tessabee wrote: »

it is only for 8 to 10 weeks per group as some are traumatised and need some counselling

What news ? Where?

Mate of mine called me and said he'd been on to the Dept of Justice. They said 8-10 weeks and they would be finding out all about Ireland and getting English lessons.

NO mention of counselling. Mind you if they don't need it now they will after being cooped up in Clonea for ten weeks.

The government are muppets. i'll bet no one even came down to look at the place.

Mate was told he was NOT 'entitled' to know when the decision had been made - only that the contract was signed on the 25th Nov and will run form Dec 2015 to Dec 2017.
Now, that seems to suggest it was made some time ago and either Paudie Coffey was telling porkie pies on WLR this week or no one thought he was worth informing. Either way doesn't look good for his re-election chances.

My mate's been waiting for a call off Coffey's office for two days....nothing. Seems like they're keeping their heads down. So much for the 'Transparency and accountability' we were promised by Enda.

Nice of our TD's to keep us in the loop though wasn't it?

tessabee

wlr today

Mutleyhound

Transparency ...... haha nice one .... in the town where the protected Cinema was bulldozed over a weekend and the elected officials were not aware, this is cute hoare ism under the guise of caring ..... hotel that can't fill off season gets this gig - only happy campers are the hoteliers, integrate into the community by dumping them 5 miles from town - shur they might sponsor bikes for them.

It like the kids show .... if you don't know and I don't know ... who the f*&k knows?

Q Paul Brady .... the answer is nobody knows .......

seanaway

tessabee wrote: »

wlr today

LOVE to know where they got that info. Sounds like pure conjecture to me.

Counselling AND English Lessons AND classes about what Ireland is like! They be traumatised by it all.

Oh yeah, wait til you hear this one. My mate said Dept of Justice told him the refugees were going to learn about Irish law!! HA HA HA! Mother above. have they ANY CLUE what they are doing with these poor people.

We must have the most disjointed, uninformed, uneducated, mismatched government services in the world...

Mutleyhound

no need to disclose anything at all regarding this - what's the craic with the place opposite davitts then?
Transparency - a property of cling film

toptom

Theyll wreck dungarvan on ye, It will be as bad as when travellers vist for the summer. No good shower of pricks in Dublin want to ruin rural ireland

seanaway

toptom wrote: »

Theyll wreck dungarvan on ye, It will be as bad as when travellers vist for the summer. No good shower of pricks in Dublin want to ruin rural ireland

Ah now come on... no one is saying that. I very much doubt they will wreck anything. After what they've been through they need all the help they can get and I doubt they will say 'great, we're here, let's wreck the place on them.'
And TBH I've not seen more than a bit of hassle when travellers are here either. Certainly never seen the town looking 'wrecked' after them and I'm the first to point a finger at the sense of entitlement travellers seem to have without returning the favour with some responsibility.

On your last point I deffo agree though. Shower of pricks with local knobs supporting them worth less than a pi*s in the wind.

of course, let's not forget it is the civil servants (misnomer if ever there was one) in the Depts that are the REAL power makers and decision takers. Politicians are normally too thick, too cowardly, or too self interested to ever make a decision of any importance. this is why NONE of them has ever lost their job over the financial crisis. They make the rules and have too much on the poiticians.

Mutleyhound

Provided these are actual Syrian refugees then fair enough, Irish are kind hospitable people, if these are migrants with false papers as is happening elsewhere in Europe then that's a different story. Until more is known will leave it at that ...... any equality for the citizens of the country following the referendum - the right to know who's coming to stay? The right to know (seeings that we're all paying) why Clonea hotel was chosen? - who got them the gig? why not house them in their houses over at the Gold Coast - would be easier for Families coming ... that is what you care about right? or is it just the lolly

lertsnim

Mutleyhound wrote: »

Irish are kind hospitable people

The comments on social media over this really put that myth to bed.

Clonea born

Why are these poor mid fortunate people been dumped out to a falling down hotel , with no facilities in clonea for them . ???

Why all the secrecy and the sneakiness by the mcgraths - I'm sure they have thought long and hard about this decision and of course it won't affect all their other buisnesses !!!

seanaway

Mutleyhound wrote: »

Provided these are actual Syrian refugees then fair enough, Irish are kind hospitable people, if these are migrants with false papers as is happening elsewhere in Europe then that's a different story. Until more is known will leave it at that ...... any equality for the citizens of the country following the referendum - the right to know who's coming to stay? The right to know (seeings that we're all paying) why Clonea hotel was chosen? - who got them the gig? why not house them in their houses over at the Gold Coast - would be easier for Families coming ... that is what you care about right? or is it just the lolly

They are all to be vetted before coming here and will already have stamp 4 refugee status so will be entitled to all that Irish citizens are.

The concerns you have are valid regarding the vetting..who is doing it and how thorough can we be sure it is given the conditions in Syria. Easy enough to fake being someone else if you know they are dead and have their history learned by heart. After all, that's how spies worked in WW2.

The BIG one here I believe is, why does the government feel they have the right to keep locals in the dark about these and present a Fait Accompli in the hope that Irish people are so beaten down by the scandals of the last few years and too busy fighting Denis/fine Gael that it will fizzle out b4 the election?

It is TOTAL disrespect to refugees and locals. Can't wait until they come looking for a vote. Funny how Ciara Conway hasn't raised her head on this isn't it? She's usually all over immigrant/refugee issues.

seanaway

lertsnim wrote: »

The comments on social media over this really put that myth to bed.

Nope. the comments on social medis show that the government have mishandled this as well as other issues thinking they could run rough shod over people who are too worried about their own homes and families.
This is EXACTLY what I was saying about the mishandling.

the social media comments reflect the mistrust sown by the goverment because they are dishonest swine...

Most people in Ireland will still welcome these people when they meet them face to face. teh government,a nd in this case in particular, John Deasy, Paudie Coffey, Ciara Conway should hang their heads in shame for the duplicity and cowardice they have shown.

Alas, as politicians I don't think they could spell the word having long forgotten what it means.

Clonea born

Why are these poor people been dumped into a falling down hotel with no facilities , in a tourist area ?

I'm sure the owners have thought long and hard about their decision to do a sneaky deal with the dept of justice , and I'm sure that they have thought about all there existing clients and business concerns !!

This is not all about money or is it ? You would have to be surprised with the decision made by this family especially the ones that are local whatever about the blow ins .

seanaway

Clonea born wrote: »

Why are these poor people been dumped into a falling down hotel with no facilities , in a tourist area ?

I'm sure the owners have thought long and hard about their decision to do a sneaky deal with the dept of justice , and I'm sure that they have thought about all there existing clients and business concerns !!

This is not all about money or is it ? You would have to be surprised with the decision made by this family especially the ones that are local whatever about the blow ins .

Totaly agree with you... seems a quiet little deal done to save a hotel that hasn;t been open for bookings in the winter since i can remember.... hence possibly why my mate was told by the dept of Justice he wasn''t entiltted to know when the deal was agreed. Suspicious at the least that the work started LONG before the contract was signed...

Local politicians are, I am sure, reading these posts..any chance you'd like to comment ...John, Ciara, Paudie??????

Clonea born

seanaway wrote: »

What news ? Where?

Mate of mine called me and said he'd been on to the Dept of Justice. They said 8-10 weeks and they would be finding out all about Ireland and getting English lessons.

NO mention of counselling. Mind you if they don't need it now they will after being cooped up in Clonea for ten weeks.

The government are muppets. i'll bet no one even came down to look at the place.

Mate was told he was NOT 'entitled' to know when the decision had been made - only that the contract was signed on the 25th Nov and will run form Dec 2015 to Dec 2017.
Now, that seems to suggest it was made some time ago and either Paudie Coffey was telling porkie pies on WLR this week or no one thought he was worth informing. Either way doesn't look good for his re-election chances.

My mate's been waiting for a call off Coffey's office for two days....nothing. Seems like they're keeping their heads down. So much for the 'Transparency and accountability' we were promised by Enda.

Nice of our TD's to keep us in the loop though wasn't it?

I agree ! Coffey brings 100 refugees to Dungarvan and no jobs ?? He will be looking for votes at the next election - so much for been a waterford man ! No back bone to stand up for local people and livelihoods just do what he is told by the minister for justice !!

lertsnim

seanaway wrote: »

Nope. the comments on social medis show that the government have mishandled this as well as other issues thinking they could run rough shod over people who are too worried about their own homes and families.
This is EXACTLY what I was saying about the mishandling.

the social media comments reflect the mistrust sown by the goverment because they are dishonest swine...

Most people in Ireland will still welcome these people when they meet them face to face. teh government,a nd in this case in particular, John Deasy, Paudie Coffey, Ciara Conway should hang their heads in shame for the duplicity and cowardice they have shown.

Alas, as politicians I don't think they could spell the word having long forgotten what it means.

I agree about the mishandling by the government. Most people in the Dungarvan area are pissed off about the lack of information from anyone about this and they have every right to be, as I am myself.

But the amount of **** being said by some is frightening. I have heard some say we will all be raped, women wont be able to leave their homes and so on.

lertsnim

Clonea born wrote: »

I'm sure they have thought long and hard about this decision and of course it won't affect all their other buisnesses !!!

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

newacc2015

Because they cant be housed in cities. There is no housing for them in cities. Im not trying to sound bad, but if they are coming from a refugee camp in Turkey or a war torn country. Imagine the facilities of an area is the least of their priorities.

Where do you suggest housing them? Do what they have been doing in Germany and evict long term residents from social housing to house refugees? Germany is even putting their refugees in PE halls.

Clonea born

newacc2015 wrote: »

Because they cant be housed in cities. There is no housing for them in cities. Im not trying to sound bad, but if they are coming from a refugee camp in Turkey or a war torn country. Imagine the facilities of an area is the least of their priorities.

Where do you suggest housing them? Do what they have been doing in Germany and evict long term residents from social housing to house refugees? Germany is even putting their refugees in PE halls.

Germany might be evicting social residents from their homes to house these poor people's but I can guarantee they are not affecting their tourism or commercial buisnesses , we have lost too many jobs and buisnesses over the last 10 years in the Dungarvan area and this is just another deal done behind closed doors - yes to accomadate these people . But definitely to line pockets !!

Profix

Is anyone aware of any volunteering work for helping out the refugees in clonea?

I'd like to make sure they are getting proper food and are talking to actual Irish people rather than bureaucrats. The fact that they are so far from town is a joke, how can we help integrate refugees if they are in a hotel like that.

Mutleyhound

Can you tell me please how there was no open call for accommodation providers
Thought all Euorpean dealing were to be open and transparent - is there no version of e-tenders???
So Clonea - Arus Brugha - Old Convent ... all owned by branches of same family
Is this a coincidence? - and why the hush hush
Here we go again, gangsterism ... whats to be gained? Soft notes and a refurb that otherwise would not be affordable
Seems that this is helping more than refugees
This is a joke, less jobs, no hotel staff required
and to not look at the carry on in other Euro countries is to bury your head in the sand, we can't jump to conclusions but we have a duty to inform ourselves, older people living alone, gardai and our children ..... even the scouts believe in 'being prepared'