The future of Cork's N40 South Ring Road

marno21

Interesting article in the Echo Thursday that the TII are examining future measures for traffic management on the N40.

Seems to be a 'we can't afford to widen the Douglas flyover or build the North Ring Road'.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/nra-considers-tolling-south-ring-road-to-prevent-future-congestion/1283417/

AugustusMinimus

Will be chaos in Cork if they decide to toll. This is the only thing keeping vast volumes of traffic out of the city centre.

Although, something will have to be done with the pinch point at Douglas flyover.

crc

I think that many parts of it, especially the Douglas fly-over, could do with an 80 km/h limit. At key merging points like just after Kinsale Road flyover eastbound I often feel like all the traffic is racing just to get to / create a build up.
I'm also not a big fan of the fact that the main Douglas road exit slip-road is effectively right beside the mainline; it would be much preferable IMO to physically separate this from the main carriageway if at all possible (or perhaps to remove it altogether, and just have one exit at Douglas - this would mean that other routes would have to be upgraded).

Finally, not sure how feasible this is, but I've often thought it would be useful to have a bridge between Jacob's Island and Rochestown, but maybe this would create too much traffic at Mahon.

cgcsb

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Will be chaos in Cork if they decide to toll. This is the only thing keeping vast volumes of traffic out of the city centre.

One would assume that it would be done in conjunction with anti-car measures in the City Centre such as a car ban on Patrick Street or removing more street parking etc.

mikeym

Tolling the road wont ease congestion.

Most people who use the N40 have no choice but to use it or else go into the City Centre.

AugustusMinimus

Tolling will do wonders for the city if tonight is anything to go by.

TheBigGreen

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Tolling will do wonders for the city if tonight is anything to go by.

Stop boy! Took me 2.16 hours to get home yesterday evening!

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

hans aus dtschl

Similar happens at the Mahon slip. Probably the same people, come to think of it.

AugustusMinimus

A completed North Ring Road in conjunction with an upgraded Dunkettle would have alleviated just about all problems on Thursday.

It's good to have alternatives in terms of traffic management.

Corks problem is both topographical but just as importantly in planning. Road and Street density drops significantly in the outskirts. This is expected but much worse than it should be. This puts enormous pressure on a low number of routes and junctions.

Pressure on the South Ring Road could be alleviated by a few new roads which are needed in the outskirts.

One last thing. Kinsale Roundabout should have been upgraded to free flow when it was being done. Access to Grange and Turners Cross blocked from the SRR. Instead have the road by Woodies go under the revised junction and carry onto Grange. Access to SRR by Mick Barry road only.

Carawaystick

An article in de paper saying the flooding/traffic issue was because the operator of the road, who is paid well to operate it, hadn't a clue

hans aus dtschl

Yeah, a lot of people were saying it locally at the time: "this new company running it...etc"

There are a few such "centralizations of service" that people in Cork are pretty vocal about: ambulance/emergency service, DAA.... Tunnel Maintenance is on that list.

marno21

Weirdly enough, there are threads for most major opened roads but none for the N40 Cork South Ring road.

This thread is for discussion of completed parts of the road from J1 at Curraheen to the Dunkettle Interchange. Please keep all talk of the proposed North Ring Road and the Dunkettle Interchange to their respective threads.

marno21

Unsurprisingly, Mahon Point have been denied permission to open a second entrance onto the N40 by Transport Infrastructure Ireland

http://www.redfm.ie/news/cork/second-entrance-to-mahon-point-denied-despite-poor-access-to-centre/

marno21

Mahon again..

TII have objected to a proposal for new development at Jacobs Island due to the existing traffic issues on the surrounding road network

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/traffic-fears-block-200-homes-mahon-office-workers/2547797/

(All caused by a signalised roundabout connecting 3 dual carraigeways and a motorway and the refusal of the government to provide funding to remove this mess.)

Chris_5339762

I think they're complaining more about the Mahon junction itself than Dunkettle. I don't know what can be done about that though but it is always awful. They need a few residents only slip roads, if such a thing even can exist.

AugustusMinimus

There were numerous plans which were shot down by the NRA for Mahon. Eventually something substantial will have to be done.

kub

Has anyone noticed how they tinkered with the lights from the N40 West bound onto the Kinsale Road Roundabout?

I noticed tail backs here before September on weekends, there are very long tailbacks now approaching the roundabout in the mornings.

Ludo

kub wrote: »

Has anyone noticed how they tinkered with the lights from the N40 West bound onto the Kinsale Road Roundabout?

I noticed tail backs here before September on weekends, there are very long tailbacks now approaching the roundabout in the mornings.

Yeah they screed that big time. Tailbacks at random times over the weekend for no apparent reason. Tis mad.

marno21

Are they usually slow to update the roller flap signs around Dunkettle after a tunnel closure?

Thursday at 5pm the signs approaching Dunkettle from the M8 were reading Tunnel Closed and directing all traffic on the N8 inbound.

kub

Speaking of tunnel closures, I noticed advanced warning signs of a closure recently, I notice also these signs appear around the same time that i see puddles of water in the lowest part of the tunnel on dry days.

I suppose a few tubes of silicone need application

marno21

Speed limit on the collector/distributor road between Bandon Rd and Sarsfield Rd roundabouts is now 80km/h. Believe it was 60km/h before.

The road markings on approach to the Bandon Rd Roundabout still read 'N25' in the lanes. You'd think they'd get around to changing that at this stage.

AugustusMinimus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

A completed North Ring Road in conjunction with an upgraded Dunkettle would have alleviated just about all problems on Thursday.

It's good to have alternatives in terms of traffic management.

Corks problem is both topographical but just as importantly in planning. Road and Street density drops significantly in the outskirts. This is expected but much worse than it should be. This puts enormous pressure on a low number of routes and junctions.

Pressure on the South Ring Road could be alleviated by a few new roads which are needed in the outskirts.

One last thing. Kinsale Roundabout should have been upgraded to free flow when it was being done. Access to Grange and Turners Cross blocked from the SRR. Instead have the road by Woodies go under the revised junction and carry onto Grange. Access to SRR by Mick Barry road only.

Marno. Just taking up from the other thread. I think my last paragraph is what should have been done with the Kinsale Roundsbout.

In addition, the old Kinsale Road - Grange road which would have lost direct access to the Kinsale Roundabout, should have a spur off it going from roughly where Little Chef was to somewhere in Douglas West. Take more cars off the SRR and an alternative route.

Road planning in the outskirts of Cork city is appealing. Truly awful. All development is along existing routes.

AugustusMinimus

Douglas flyover will need upgrading to 3 lanes, especially in light of Dunkettle and M28 upgrades.

I think some interesting engineering will be required, especially on the westbound side. Could be some large concrete structures required.

Middle Man

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Douglas flyover will need upgrading to 3 lanes, especially in light of Dunkettle and M28 upgrades.

I think some interesting engineering will be required, especially on the westbound side. Could be some large concrete structures required.

Just stack it - 4 lanes over 4 and it's pretty well future proofed I guess.

marno21

The roundabout at the offramp at J7 on the N40 is to be replaced with traffic lights

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/roundabout-removed-south-douglas-road/2610223/

marno21

Is it time for a variable speed limit with enforcement on the South Ring Road? Specifically between J6 Kinsale Rd and J9 Bloomfield.

Another crash yesterday westbound near the Douglas flyover. No hard shoulder here means even a minor tip requires at least 1 full lane closure. Keeping traffic moving slower, but moving would surely be more effective than flying between lanes on a narrow cross section of dual carraigeway and making little net movement.

marno21

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Over-capacity-N40-a-major-issue-8f5c9eff-1e0e-42e8-8481-e78a77965325-ds

Over capacity N40 a major issue - nothing new in there - and no real solutions being pushed either.

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Over-capacity-N40-a-major-issue-8f5c9eff-1e0e-42e8-8481-e78a77965325-ds

Over capacity N40 a major issue - nothing new in there - and no real solutions being pushed either.

If you think about it, it's like the M50 except smaller and further south.
There's no other reasonable way to transit from anywhere like Glanmire, Carrigtwohill, Fermoy, Midleton, etc to Ringaskiddy, Airport or Ballincollig employment areas. The ferry can be used but it's relatively slow and expensive.

There's no other reasonable way to transit from Carrigaline, Douglas, Wilton, Ballincollig, Douglas to Little Island or Carrigtwohill employment areas.

We've got a car-dependent transport link between NE to SW with no reasonable alternative method of transport for a large percentage of end users. It gets worse when you consider that all of the existing housing areas are being expanded by significant amounts.

NRR would be a big help. Any thoughts on including space on the NRR infrastructure for public transport: making the bridges and tunnels wider to accommodate rail or dedicated bus lanes?
Similarly, thoughts on a public transport link with hubs at Dunkettle and Ballincollig, using the N40 SRR?

Chris_5339762

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Similarly, thoughts on a public transport link with hubs at Dunkettle and Ballincollig, using the N40 SRR?

There was to be a Dunkettle station with links into Kent station but it never happened. The additional problem is that links from Kent Station into the city are woeful.

AugustusMinimus

Topography and road layout are huge issues in Cork.

No bridge between Michael Collins bridge and the tunnel. No viable north south route between Douglas and where a new bridge will cross the Lee around Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

No scope to build any bridge between Passage and Rushbrooke.

NRR will help but not a huge amount IMO.