Disagreement with girlfriend's housemates

She sublets the dining room from one of the other renters - so the landlord doesn't know she is there - I would be looking for more appropriate accommodation.

Eugene Norman

<MOD SNIP >

Seems like an urban myth in terms of laws. Some house rules in Switzerland discourage showers or late night baths. No civilised country has any rules on music unless it affects people outside the house.

nikkibikki

If the music was stopped at midnight and she wasn't up til 6, that's still 6 hours sleep! I've gone to work on 4 or 5! 10yrs ago it would have been because of a night out. Last few yrs it's been down to babies!

OP, music at 10pm on a Friday night is not unreasonable at all. It's not as if she's up at 6am 5days a week and "only" getting 6 hours sleep a night! And never getting a chance to catch up. You need to apologise to her housemates and stay out of it in future or they won't allow u stay over. It's not their problem she has to be up at 6. I used to just get up out of bed and join the party if it happened somewhere I house shared. No point staying in my room trying to sleep! If you can't beat em, join em!

athtrasna

Mod note Sonny.Knowles please do not post on this thread again. At best your posts are off topic, at worst it's trolling.

Other posters please remember the rule, attack the post and not the poster. Thanks

Vision of Disorder

I'm in a minority here in that I do think it's inconsiderate to be playing loud music directly next door to somebody that you know has to get up early. Why not use a room upstairs like? That said the OP's girlfriend would have been well advised to go and have a word herself rather than sending the boyfriend who doesn't even live there. And 10pm is a bit early to be going off about it too I'll concede.

Many years ago I was sharing a house with friends and had a similar issue. Asked them politely to keep the noise down (it was a lot later than 10), they said they would, they did for a while before the noise levels started to escalate again (nothing deliberate I believe, just that the majority of drunks are morons). Went back to them, asked a bit more abruptly, again apologies and promises of quiet from the half dozen or so there (some housemates, some friends of theirs). Again, initially the noise dropped off before over time gradually rising up again. I ground my teeth and slept as best I could.

The following morning I was up before the sun and before leaving the house for the day I did the following. I selected my loudest, heaviest, angriest metal CD. I put the volume of my stereo to maximum. I pressed play, locked my bedroom door after me and left the house. Noise was never an issue again and we all lived happily ever after.

Whosthis

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

I'm in a minority here in that I do think it's inconsiderate to be playing loud music directly next door to somebody that you know has to get up early. Why not use a room upstairs like? That said the OP's girlfriend would have been well advised to go and have a word herself rather than sending the boyfriend who doesn't even live there. And 10pm is a bit early to be going off about it too I'll concede.

Many years ago I was sharing a house with friends and had a similar issue. Asked them politely to keep the noise down (it was a lot later than 10), they said they would, they did for a while before the noise levels started to escalate again (nothing deliberate I believe, just that the majority of drunks are morons). Went back to them, asked a bit more abruptly, again apologies and promises of quiet from the half dozen or so there (some housemates, some friends of theirs). Again, initially the noise dropped off before over time gradually rising up again. I ground my teeth and slept as best I could.

The following morning I was up before the sun and before leaving the house for the day I did the following. I selected my loudest, heaviest, angriest metal CD. I put the volume of my stereo to maximum. I pressed play, locked my bedroom door after me and left the house. Noise was never an issue again and we all lived happily ever after.

The old passive aggressive approach, I find that's usually the best way to deal with any issues.

housetypeb

Surely the girlfriend is subletting off of all three housemates rather than just one of them? Can't see her rent being used to offset only one tenants rent rather than all three.

Your well out of order op imo. Not only has you not right to say anything in a house you are only a guest but people having fun and playing music at 10pm on a Friday night is pretty much a standard thing in many houses. 10 pm is very early and you cannot expect people to tip toe around at that time when they want to relax and unwind after a weeks work.

If a housemates guest told me to keep noise down at 10pm any night of the week never mind a Friday they would be out the door straight away and banned from the house.

Also you mention they complained about early morning noise and you said it was only on Saturdays. This is probably the worst day of all for early morning noise as people like to sleep late on Saturdays to recharge after a weeks work.

riffmongous

Qualitymark wrote: »

In civilised countries music and other noise - and even flushing toilets - are shut off at 10pm.

Yep, in Germany and Austria this is the case

Schutz der Nachtruhe
Von 22.00 bis 06.00 Uhr ist es verboten, Lärm zu verursachen, durch den jemand in seiner Nachtruhe gestört werden kann.

From 10pm till 6am it is forbidden, to make noise that can disturb someone's 'night-peace', proper order too. If you want to make noise like having a party you have to inform/ask you're neighbours first and usually there is no problem if you are reasonable

MadDog76

riffmongous wrote: »

Yep, in Germany and Austria this is the case



From 10pm till 6am it is forbidden, to make noise that can disturb someone's 'night-peace', proper order too. If you want to make noise like having a party you have to inform/ask you're neighbours first and usually there is no problem if you are reasonable

Germany and Austria, really???

And here was me thinking that Germans/Austrians were the most chilled out, up for the craic, party animals on the planet!!

GLaDOS

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask housemates to keep the noise down a bit when you have to work the next morning. It's not a legal requirement or anything but a bit of compromise either way goes far when you have to live together.

The problem is, as a guest in the house, going in and telling them what is acceptable what isn't is never going to go down well. Tbh it sounds like they have other grievances, with both yourself and your girlfriend, that haven't aired before. It should have been your girlfriend handling it from the start, you going in and making demands likely got their back up.

Sounds like the relationship between your girlfriend and the other housemates has gone a bit sour. If they aren't willing to compromise, she either has to suck it up or look for somewhere else to live given the circumstances.

riffmongous

MadDog76 wrote: »

Germany and Austria, really???

And here was me thinking that Germans/Austrians were the most chilled out, up for the craic, party animals on the planet!!

Never hear of a small little party called Oktoberfest? People here party just as much, only there are proper laws to try prevent them disturbing others

athtrasna

Can we get back on topic please?

Mark Hamill

gordongekko wrote: »

i think you are the bully. What had it got to do with you?

Did you not read the post?
And this goes for everyone else with this strawman: I was asking (and then arguing) on behalf of my girlfriend, someone who pays to be in the house. My girlfriend doesn't like arguing, hence I was the one who asked first.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

The fact that in the op the poster said the housemates said they'd call the guards for "them" living in a living room, makes me wonder if he's also a tenant or if he's outstayed his welcome. The fact he feels like it's his place to sort this out suggests he seems to have a notion that this is his right. The fact the girlfriend could go speak to them mid arguement would suggest she's well able to speak up for herself.

You are reading into something that isn't there.
They were threatening to call the guards on my girlfriend, not me.
I don't live there, we haven't been going out long and I had only met 2 of the 3 tenants before this.
If someone is bullying my girlfriend, not to mention abusive and aggressive to me (and later her) then it damn sure is my right to stick up for her, who wouldn't stick up for their partner in that situation.
I had to convince my girlfriend to go talk to them.

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

OP you and your girlfriend need to grow up.

Grown up mature people recognise that their actions may hurt other people. Grown up mature people have the decency to not disturb people they know have to get up early.
Grown up mature people do not give a two-fingers attitude to reasonable requests because they want to get pissed off their heads and fck anyone else it's a nuisance to.

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

And the matter of you, a stranger, dictating to the people paying rent and bills. How dare you. Just how dare you.

How dare me? What the hell is wrong with people? How dare they bully my girlfriend like that?

athtrasna wrote: »

OP you are in the wrong here as already pointed out. It's not the housemates fault that she works early on a Saturday, you should consider what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot.

If the shoe was on the other foot? I would keep it down! Why the hell wouldn't I? It's the decent thing to do, not to tell someone to get by on <6 hours sleep.

athtrasna wrote: »

The alternative is for her to move.

Why should she have to move? Why shouldn't they move into their own place if they want to make noise whenever they like?

TimeToShine wrote: »

They were also right in complaining about your girlfriend making a lot of noise at 6am on a Saturday as a retort, something they were willing to sweep under the rug until you came out all guns blazing.

It was a BS retort, she doesn't make noise when she leaves for work (she gets up, dresses and is out the door in <15 minutes). It was "I know you are, but what am I" style childishness.

housetypeb wrote: »

Surely the girlfriend is subletting off of all three housemates rather than just one of them? Can't see her rent being used to offset only one tenants rent rather than all three.

I'm not sure. She pays the same one each month, I'd imagine he is sharing it with the others (although I guess they could be subletting off him too).

riffmongous wrote: »

From 10pm till 6am it is forbidden, to make noise that can disturb someone's 'night-peace', proper order too. If you want to make noise like having a party you have to inform/ask you're neighbours first and usually there is no problem if you are reasonable

They were in the kitchen since before 6. If they had let us know any time before I went into them after 10 then there wouldn't have been the same issue. It's what we do where I live, let the other tenants know if you are planning to be noisy at night. It's just common decency.

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask housemates to keep the noise down a bit when you have to work the next morning. It's not a legal requirement or anything but a bit of compromise either way goes far when you have to live together.

The problem is, as a guest in the house, going in and telling them what is acceptable what isn't is never going to go down well. Tbh it sounds like they have other grievances, with both yourself and your girlfriend, that haven't aired before. It should have been your girlfriend handling it from the start, you going in and making demands likely got their back up.

Sounds like the relationship between your girlfriend and the other housemates has gone a bit sour. If they aren't willing to compromise, she either has to suck it up or look for somewhere else to live given the circumstances.

Who I am is irrelevant, I was there on her behalf.
The whole "this isn't acceptable" came up after trying to explain to them about my girlfriend getting up and their attitude of complete dismissal (it wasn't the second thing I said, I'll admit the OP does make it seem like that).
Apparently my girlfriend has had a bullying problem with one of them for a while now. The tenant has been obnoxious and rude to her in the past and is of the opinion that my girlfriend shouldn't say boo to her.

Penny Tration

How were they bullying your girlfriend?

Playing music at 10pm on a Friday night is not even close to bullying.

Mark Hamill

Penny Tration wrote: »

How were they bullying your girlfriend?

Playing music at 10pm on a Friday night is not even close to bullying.

Their abusive attitude after reasonable requests to turn the music down was the bullying. They were physically in my face when I was talking to them ( I seriously thought on them, a girl, was going to take a swing at me) and when my girlfriend was there, the more aggressive one got in her face while the other tried to distract me. If it was a work place, they would have been fired.

TimeToShine

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Their abusive attitude after reasonable requests to turn the music down was the bullying. They were physically in my face when I was talking to them ( I seriously thought on them, a girl, was going to take a swing at me) and when my girlfriend was there, the more aggressive one got in her face while the other tried to distract me. If it was a work place, they would have been fired.

You're not getting it. You are only in the house as a matter of courtesy, you are simply not allowed to involve yourself in these things. Your presence in that kitchen is an offence to the other housemates, let alone you trying to tell them to stfu.

To put it more succinctly using your own example; if were a work place, you wouldn't be there.

athtrasna

OP the bottom line is that it's the housemates' home as much as it's your girlfriends. They are entitled to enjoy the home, especially on a Friday night. Midnight is a fair cut off IMO, it's not their fault she works early on a Saturday. And you have no right to get involved in this, as has been said by others, you are risking the housemates refusing you access to the house if you continue to interfere.

As for why your girlfriend should move, well if she can't embrace the ups and downs of sharing this house then it's clearly not for her. Expecting music to be turned off at 10pm on a Friday night indicates that she isn't suited for this kind of house-share.

Penny Tration

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Their abusive attitude after reasonable requests to turn the music down was the bullying. They were physically in my face when I was talking to them ( I seriously thought on them, a girl, was going to take a swing at me) and when my girlfriend was there, the more aggressive one got in her face while the other tried to distract me. If it was a work place, they would have been fired.

You weren't reasonable. you told them that turning it off at midnight was unacceptable.

They offered a fair and reasonable compromise and you, a guest, threw it back in their faces.

If it was a workplace, your girlfriend would be sacked for allowing her boyfriend make unreasonable demands of other staff.

irelandrover

So the housemates have to be quiet every Friday night as your girlfriend gets up at 6am. The one time they weren't someone who isn't even living in the house told them to stfu?

esforum

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Their abusive attitude after reasonable requests to turn the music down was the bullying. They were physically in my face when I was talking to them ( I seriously thought on them, a girl, was going to take a swing at me) and when my girlfriend was there, the more aggressive one got in her face while the other tried to distract me. If it was a work place, they would have been fired.

I would have ****ed you out the door head first and handed her 7 days notice.

Just who the f*ck do you think you are? Its their house, not yours. How would you respond if some randomer walked into your house at (insert an hour you consider reasonable) and started telling you what to do?

that said, in my experience houses that convert sitting rooms into bedrooms tend to be cheapskates and it never works

Mark Hamill wrote: »

If it was a work place, they would have been fired.

if it was a workplace security would have escorted you of the premises at the first sign of you dictating to staff that actually work there about how they do their jobs. Imagine walking into Penneys and barking orders at the staff!

Carlos Orange

Mark Hamill wrote: »

What can I do about this?

Why doesn't your girlfriend just stay over at your place on Friday night.

Diane Selwyn

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Their abusive attitude after reasonable requests to turn the music down was the bullying. They were physically in my face when I was talking to them ( I seriously thought on them, a girl, was going to take a swing at me) and when my girlfriend was there, the more aggressive one got in her face while the other tried to distract me. If it was a work place, they would have been fired.

If it were a work place you would not work there and would not have any say in how it's run. I wonder if you live in a house share yourself? There is often a clash between the early birds and night owls and usually a degree of compromise sorts this out. Obviously its up to those paying the rent to come to an agreement about how it all works so by wading in it sounds like you've managed to open a can of worms that means your girlfriend may now not be able to reach any kind of agreement and might be better off just looking for something else. Good time to suggest moving in together perhaps?

mickdw

Converting the sitting room and renting it out is the first issue here. There is now half the common space in the house and an extra person to accommodate. This will 9 times out of 10 be a terrible living arrangement.
Everyone living there is stuck in the kitchen or bedroom. It just cannot work.
Adding a non paying boyfriend to the mix means there are now 5 people where ideally there should be 3 and still the reduced common space. Nightmare.

Del2005

esforum wrote: »

I would have ****ed you out the door head first and handed her 7 days notice.

From my understanding of the OPs posts his girlfriend is a licencee as she is renting a room from a live in landlord so they could have thrown her out there and then, the fact it's an illegal sublet means she has no rights at all.

OP if you keep causing grief don't be surprised if she arrives to her possessions on the doorstep and the door locked.

salamanca22

Op, whether on behalf of your girlfriend or not you have no rights in the house. You can ask all you want for something but if you don't get it you leave it there and then and never bring it up again. It is not your place to do what you have done.

You were totally out of line doing what you did and in my opinion from what information we have been given the housemates were more than reasonable until you refused to accept their offer of turning the music off at midnight. It is their home and they can within the boundaries of the law do as they please and to have this attempt to subvert that by someone who does not hold these rights they are more than allowed to get aggravated by the situation and in no uncertain terms tell you where to go. Though they gave weak arguments you can still understand where they are coming from.

Like it or lump it op, you were the one that is in the wrong, not them.

Personally, if a guest of a housemate did what you did in any houseshare I was a part of I would be demanding your immediate expulsion from the abode and a blanket ban on any future visits. You were really out of order here op.

Smiley11

OP it was you who caused the aggravation unfortunately. The attitude of why SHOULD she move is poor when you interfered with HER housemates. The point is why WOULD she want to live in a tense environment like that. 10 p.m. is a perfectly reasonable hour to be playing music while having a few drinks on a Friday night. Whats unreasonable is a virtual stranger walking in & requesting they turn down the music & not accepting the compromise offered, exacerbating the situation further.

I understand you felt the need to defend her but it wasn't appropriate for you to interfere, particularly when she hadn't spoken to them herself. Its up to her to decide whether to stay or not but personally I wouldn't want to live in a situation that might lead to confrontation. There are other house shares but if she chooses to remain there, then perhaps you should do what another poster suggested & go to your house on a Friday night as it would seem you have much quieter housemates.

Its pretty obvious that the majority here disagree with your point of view & your attitude is defensive rather than being reasonable & I doubt that you'll ever accept that you were the antagonist.

Tarzana2

Smiley11 wrote: »

Its pretty obvious that the majority here disagree with your point of view & your attitude is defensive rather than being reasonable & I doubt that you'll ever accept that you were the antagonist.

Pretty much!

DivingDuck

OP, your girlfriend would be smart to start looking for somewhere else to live. Her housemates sound like nightmare to me-- moving a licencee into one of the common rooms, being loud when they know that person has to get up early in the morning, being aggressive when asked to turn the music down, threatening to get the police involved?! I wouldn't want to live with anyone who behaved like that; they sound horrible.

However.

The reality here is that she has minimal rights in this situation, and that you have absolutely none. I fully understand that you wanted to handle the situation to protect her and possibly let her continue to rest a bit, but you are a guest when in that property, and as such, it's not strictly your business. Perhaps her housemates were aggrieved by your presence and that's why they set up camp adjacent to her room with music?

The two biggest annoyances in shared houses are non-contributing overnight guests, and other people's noise. Maybe their line of thinking is that if she's allowed to keep overnight guests, they should be allowed to make noise at unsociable hours.

At the end of the day, there are three of them and one of her, and she's not even on the official lease. I highly doubt they're going to alter their behaviour and opinions to match her needs, so unfortunately, ultimately the only thing she can really do is move out. If she wanted to be get her own back for having to move, she could drop the landlord a note to let them know that the living room is being sublet-- I find it hard to believe the landlord is aware of this, as they're not getting their cut of the extra person's wear and tear on the house and it can have liability implications, so I believe it's very wrong and unfair of the tenants to move someone else in without the landlord's knowledge or permission. I suspect that once he found out, they might have to move themselves soon after.

Good luck to the both of you; I wouldn't want to be in that situation.

athtrasna

DivingDuck wrote: »

Maybe their line of thinking is that if she's allowed to keep overnight guests, they should be allowed to make noise at unsociable hours.

10pm on a Friday night is not an unsociable hour, these are adults not 12 year olds!!