Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

Number 137

Billysays no wrote: »

belaham (simply required to cover denis). delahunt, mcartney. all able to play the connacht way.
backup loughney, heff/jhw, and then i think of heff as a flexible solution. so it would be loughney/jhw/heff as our replacements. It certainly wouldnt be my front row but its a fast and furious second option which suits the team.

And if you were to rise me on this i would say i have, a bit, but not much time for nathan. Look how buckley and bealham pass the ball and then then there is nathan

If I'm reading this post correctly, I'm pretty sure Pro 12 regulations require you to name 4 props in a 23 man squad. This contains three. I don't think Heffernan can magically transform into a prop.

Number 137

connachta wrote: »

Was about to say the same. O'Donnell, injured or not can't play now. We're talking about play-off FFS not giving gametime to a young prospect. I challenge any of you to find a 20-years-old PROP (SH or hooker would have been ok, it's totally different) who has played the Pro12 semi-final in the last 10 years

Zander Fagerson played for Scotland against England in the Six Nations this season. That's light years ahead of a pro 12 playoff. It can and does happen.

irishbucsfan

I think Glasgow have a loosehead who was on the bench, a Scotland u20 player, cant remember his name (not Fagerson either)

Yeah_Right

Number 137 wrote: »

Writing off a year 1 academy prospect, who is a prop and only 20 years of age is simply outrageous. I'm sure plenty of players in this Connacht squad where not particularly impressive at the same age, but have blossomed with the right coaching.

Interesting point. Let's look at some Connacht's Stars this season and see if we can find out what level they were at when they were 20. Start with Aki, Healy and McCartney.

b.gud

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Interesting point. Let's look at some Connacht's Stars this season and see if we can find out what level they were at when they were 20. Start with Aki, Healy and TOH.

Can't speak to the others but Healy was playing scrum half, ahead of Murray :eek:

Bazzo

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Number 137 wrote: »

Writing off a year 1 academy prospect, who is a prop and only 20 years of age is simply outrageous. I'm sure plenty of players in this Connacht squad where not particularly impressive at the same age, but have blossomed with the right coaching.

Interesting point. Let's look at some Connacht's Stars this season and see if we can find out what level they were at when they were 20. Start with Aki, Healy and TOH.

People have had an eye on TOH from a young age all the way up. Healy I don't think even ever made the Leinster academy. He was scouted along with Ronaldson from Lansdowne by Connacht. I have no idea how Aki was viewed in NZ at that age.

Yeah_Right

BTW I'm not advocating that Connacht should or should not start O'Donnell because I know sweet FA about him. I simply don't believe a 20 year old should be written off.

Also if the coaches think a 20 year old is ready for a debut then I'll trust them.

Bazzo

Yeah_Right wrote: »

BTW I'm not advocating that Connacht should or should not start O'Donnell because I know sweet FA about him. I simply don't believe a 20 year old should be written off.

Also if the coaches think a 20 year old is ready for a debut then I'll trust them.

It wouldn't actually be a debut, he's come off the bench for Connacht this year already. :P

Number 137

b.gud wrote: »

Can't speak to the others but Healy was playing scrum half, ahead of Murray :eek:

Exactly. Conor Murray was behind Matt Healy, now a (successfully) converted winger. But just because Murray wasn't great at 20 didn't matter. Four years later he played in a Lions test series.

b.gud

Bazzo wrote: »

It wouldn't actually be a debut, he's come off the bench for Connacht this year already. :P

8 times for a total of 135 minutes, not bad for a 20 year old who's not up to the job

Number 137

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think Glasgow have a loosehead who was on the bench, a Scotland u20 player, cant remember his name (not Fagerson either)

Interesting. Any idea what game that was in?

ClanofLams

Bazzo wrote: »

It wouldn't actually be a debut, he's come off the bench for Connacht this year already. :P

He started away to Newcastle too at the Peak of the injury crisis.

BrokenMan

ClanofLams wrote: »

He started away to Newcastle too at the Peak of the injury crisis.

We don't talk about that game.

Zzippy

b.gud wrote: »

8 times for a total of 135 minutes, not bad for a 20 year old who's not up to the job

No no no! That doesn't suit the narrative of a couple of posters on here. He's cr@p! Pick a hooker instead! He's clearly too young! :rolleyes:

Billysays no

Zzippy wrote: »

No no no! That doesn't suit the narrative of a couple of posters on here. He's cr@p! Pick a hooker instead! He's clearly too young! :rolleyes:

What was said was he is too heavy and too slow for the Connacht style of play aka Rodney. Nothing more, nothing less

connachta

Zzippy wrote: »

b.gud wrote: »

8 times for a total of 135 minutes, not bad for a 20 year old who's not up to the job

No no no! That doesn't suit the narrative of a couple of posters on here. He's cr@p! Pick a hooker instead! He's clearly too young! :rolleyes:

Suits me perfectly, he can play anytime but decisive, so not for pay-off. Samson Lee was dominated, so Conan would be. Clearly too young, and happy Saba gets his chance in trainning at least

Bazzo

connachta wrote: »

Suits me perfectly, he can play anytime but decisive, so not for pay-off. Samson Lee was dominated, so Conan would be. Clearly too young, and happy Saba gets his chance in trainning at least

You're basing this off what though? He came off the bench against Cardiff and his first act of the game was to win a scrum penalty. His second was to get over the line but unfortunately he just knocked on instead of getting down for the try.

He's the best tighthead of his age in the country and a great young talent, not sure why he's coming in for all this abuse.

Billysays no

Bazzo wrote: »

You're basing this off what though? He came off the bench against Cardiff and his first act of the game was to win a scrum penalty. His second was to get over the line but unfortunately he just knocked on instead of getting down for the try.

He's the best tighthead of his age in the country and a great young talent, not sure why he's coming in for all this abuse.

Its not abuse. Its opinion

connachta

Bazzo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Suits me perfectly, he can play anytime but decisive, so not for pay-off. Samson Lee was dominated, so Conan would be. Clearly too young, and happy Saba gets his chance in trainning at least

You're basing this off what though? He came off the bench against Cardiff and his first act of the game was to win a scrum penalty. His second was to get over the line but unfortunately he just knocked on instead of getting down for the try.

He's the best tighthead of his age in the country and a great young talent, not sure why he's coming in for all this abuse.

Yeah good example knocked-on a try which would have made us won. That's what experience is about, no abuse. Same for scrum, completely different to win a pen against Cardiff in regular game than against McGrath in semi-final

Bazzo

connachta wrote: »

Bazzo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Suits me perfectly, he can play anytime but decisive, so not for pay-off. Samson Lee was dominated, so Conan would be. Clearly too young, and happy Saba gets his chance in trainning at least

You're basing this off what though? He came off the bench against Cardiff and his first act of the game was to win a scrum penalty. His second was to get over the line but unfortunately he just knocked on instead of getting down for the try.

He's the best tighthead of his age in the country and a great young talent, not sure why he's coming in for all this abuse.

Yeah good example knock-on a try which would have made us won. That's what experience is, no abuse. Same for scrum, completely different to win a pen against Cardiff in regular game than against McGrath in semi-final

Ok cool so we can start crucifying every player who has knocked on now? Nah, that'd be stupid. You completely missed the point of that: he got himself in to a position to score in the first place.

You're also acting like people are calling for him to start or something stupid, they're not. Bit of clarity here please, they're saying give him a spot on the bench ahead of a hooker who hasn't propper in 2+ years, or another hooker who hasn't propped ever, or Rodney Ah-Sure-I'm-Off-To-Ulster-Anyway-Who-Cares.

Dunno why you're talking about a Leinster semi final either this whole discussion was sparked talking about an away game vs Treviso??

Billysays no

Bazzo wrote: »

Ok cool so we can start crucifying every player who has knocked on now? Nah, that'd be stupid. You completely missed the point of that: he got himself in to a position to score in the first place.

You're also acting like people are calling for him to start or something stupid, they're not. Bit of clarity here please, they're saying give him a spot on the bench ahead of a hooker who hasn't propper in 2+ years, or another hooker who hasn't propped ever, or Rodney Ah-Sure-I'm-Off-To-Ulster-Anyway-Who-Cares.

Dunno why you're talking about a Leinster semi final either this whole discussion was sparked talking about an away game vs Treviso??

That's simply unfair. We have a crisis in our front row and folks voice an opinion. It is not a 'lambasting of players. Its just an honest opinion. Would I rather tom to move to loose head over Conan. Yes I would. Its just a feckin opinion at the end of the day. Hence the concept of the forum.

However should jack get selected over AJ. Now then I might get upset.

Zzippy

Billysays no wrote: »

That's simply unfair. We have a crisis in our front row and folks voice an opinion. It is not a 'lambasting of players. Its just an honest opinion. Would I rather tom to move to loose head over Conan. Yes I would. Its just a feckin opinion at the end of the day. Hence the concept of the forum.

However should jack get selected over AJ. Now then I might get upset.

Why? Jack can pass a ball and isn't overweight... :rolleyes:

its_phil

connachta wrote: »

Yeah good example knocked-on a try which would have made us won. That's what experience is about, no abuse. Same for scrum, completely different to win a pen against Cardiff in regular game than against McGrath in semi-final

Great make sure to tell Ben Marshall not to show up after that knock on against Cardiff home after ball didn't go 10.

Also, tell Aki he's not experienced enough after that s*** pass to Kieran twice last weekend. Dock him his wages while we're at it.

One knock on being held against a 20 year old. This is ridiculous, why the f*** are we talking about an injured 20 year old prop who won't be featuring for the rest of the season anyway.

Billysays no

Zzippy wrote: »

Why? Jack can pass a ball and isn't overweight... :rolleyes:

Always happy to say when I'm wrong. But love having an opinion. We are born with that problem. I'm maybe slightly more controversial in how I portray it.

However should jack take 10 over AJ then all bets are off. I could honestly get upset

its_phil

Billysays no wrote: »

That's simply unfair. We have a crisis in our front row and folks voice an opinion. It is not a 'lambasting of players. Its just an honest opinion. Would I rather tom to move to loose head over Conan. Yes I would. Its just a feckin opinion at the end of the day. Hence the concept of the forum.

However should jack get selected over AJ. Now then I might get upset.

You saying your being honest but you're just picking on young players. Again. Your opinion is just rotten when it comes to young players. Zero patience and lack of respect for a player learning the craft.

Buckley and Bealham were certainly nowhere being the finished article at Conans age and certainly didn't have half the JWC Conan had last year.

galwaylad14

Billysays no wrote: »

Always happy to say when I'm wrong. But love having an opinion. We are born with that problem. I'm maybe slightly more controversial in how I portray it.

However should jack take 10 over AJ then all bets are off. I could honestly get upset

I agree with you about AJ ahead of Jack. I'd also put O'Leary ahead of Jack to be honest. The main reason being that both O'Leary and AJ take the ball at pace and then move it on which means every body outside them can then move onto the ball at pace which generates forward momentum. Also the fact the run on to the ball means if a gap does appear they are well capable of getting through it.

With Jack he always seems to take it standing still and just shovel it, meaning the next guy outside him probably has to do the same and it can all get quiet static.

As kickers I don't think there's much between the three of them, they are all average enough kickers at pro 12 level really.

Overall though AJ is the best of the three

BrokenMan

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I agree with you about AJ ahead of Jack. I'd also put O'Leary ahead of Jack to be honest. The main reason being that both O'Leary and AJ take the ball at pace and then move it on which means every body outside them can then move onto the ball at pace which generates forward momentum. Also the fact the run on to the ball means if a gap does appear they are well capable of getting through it.

With Jack he always seems to take it standing still and just shovel it, meaning the next guy outside him probably has to do the same and it can all get quiet static.

As kickers I don't think there's much between the three of them, they are all average enough kickers at pro 12 level really.

Overall though AJ is the best of the three

I think being too static was a very fair criticism of Jack a while back but it appears to be something he has been working on. I definitely remember him breaking a few lines in his last games. One time in particular he just needed a support runner and they would have been in under the posts, cant remember the game off the top of my head.

If we look back at him when he first came through as opposed to now the improvements have been very good. His kicking from hand has come on hugely, his game management is improving and when he's on form his goal kicking is pretty good, could certainly improve. There's no reason to think that he cant continue to improve either.

Im not saying he's perfect but I wouldn't be overly concerned between himself and AJ starting and the other benching. O 'Leary did OK when he was in but he's still got a way to go before he should be pushing for a start with everyone fit. Reckon he will definitely see more game time next year assuming he stays.

galwaylad14

BrokenMan wrote: »

I think being too static was a very fair criticism of Jack a while back but it appears to be something he has been working on. I definitely remember him breaking a few lines in his last games. One time in particular he just needed a support runner and they would have been in under the posts, cant remember the game off the top of my head.

If we look back at him when he first came through as opposed to now the improvements have been very good. His kicking from hand has come on hugely, his game management is improving and when he's on form his goal kicking is pretty good, could certainly improve. There's no reason to think that he cant continue to improve either.

Im not saying he's perfect but I wouldn't be overly concerned between himself and AJ starting and the other benching. O 'Leary did OK when he was in but he's still got a way to go before he should be pushing for a start with everyone fit. Reckon he will definitely see more game time next year assuming he stays.

Probably fair comments there. I should actually have mentioned in my post that the last game before Jack got injured, Scarlets at home which I'd say is the one you were referring to, he was excellent. Took on the ball at pace that day which got our backline outside him moving and he did make a lovely break. To be honest that game was the first time I was genuinely impressed with him as a rugby player in all the times I've watched him. Not saying he hasn't had decent games before this but that was the first time I really thought he looked like a good number 10.

If he could get back to that then I would have him ahead of O'Leary alright but there's no guarantees he can. And I think in the time he's been absent AJ has proved himself to be a superior player. He's a cracking rugby player.

galwaylad14

What time will the team be announced today? Interesting to see what it'll be. I don't really see any reason to be resting lads that are fit at this stage, they had last week off and have a maximum of 4 games left which will include another week off anyway.

Bazzo

galwaylad14 wrote: »

What time will the team be announced today? Interesting to see what it'll be. I don't really see any reason to be resting lads that are fit at this stage, they had last week off and have a maximum of 4 games left which will include another week off anyway.

Should be announced any minute now.

KBurke85

Team is due in the next few mins.

thomond2006

Connacht team to face Benetton Treviso, Friday 29th April, Stadio Monigo, 19:30 (local time)

15 Tiernan O’Halloran
14 Niyi Adeolokun
13 Rory Parata
12 Peter Robb
11 Fionn Carr
10 Jack Carty
9 John Cooney

1 Ronan Loughney
2 Tom McCartney (captain)
3 Rodney Ah You
4 Quinn Roux
5 Andrew Browne
6 Sean O’Brien
7 Jake Heenan
8 Eoin McKeon

Replacements:

16 Dave Heffernan
17 JP Cooney
18 Finlay Bealham
19 Aly Muldowney
20 John Muldoon
21 Coalin Blade
22 AJ MacGinty
23 Robbie Henshaw

Injured/Unavailable: Denis Buckley, Nathan White, Ben Marshall, Nepia Fox-Matamua, Eoghan Masterson, Craig Ronaldson, Dave McSharry, Danie Poolman, Matt Healy*, Darragh Leader, Ciaran Gaffney.

*Matt Healy suffered a minor back injury last week to rule him out of selection for the Treviso game.

A couple of players rested from the starting XV but on the bench should things go awry. Heenan back from injury is massive.

Bazzo

Looks like Pat is resting as many players as possible. Robb/Parata midfield should be interesting to watch. Let's hope sending out a weakened side(even against the Italians) doesn't come back to bite us in the ass.

connemara man

Radney Ah balls!



Seriously though that team should have enough but there's enough strength on the bench to change the game if needed

thomond2006

connemara man wrote: »

Radney Ah balls!

That team should have enough but there's enough strength on the bench to change the game if needed

It will. The Italian teams have phoned it in. In their three games since the 6N, Treviso have conceded 56, 38 and 47.

connemara man

thomond2006 wrote: »

It will. The Italian teams have phoned it in. In their three games since the 6N, Treviso have conceded 56, 38 and 47.

I agree. Not going counting chickens yet though...

maroondog

With Glasgow at home to Zebre they will no doubt be resting most of their 1st choice 15 for next week. So not a surprise this line up by Connacht, strong bench to call on. The last home in regular season v Glasgow really is the key fixture. I hope Rodney can put in a half decent performance before he leaves, his last few run outs have been nothing short of disgraceful.

former total

There's the bones a decent team here, but they just look they're already on their summer holidays.

15 Jayden Hayward, 14 Angelo Esposito, 13 Luca Morisi, 12 Alberto Sgarbi ( C ), 11 Ludovico Nitoglia, 10 Sam Christie, 9 Edoardo Gori, 8 Abraham Steyn, 7 Alessandro Zanni, 6 Francesco Minto, 5 Tom Palmer, 4 Filo Paulo, 3 Simone Ferrari, 2 Ornel Gega, 1 Matteo Zanusso.

Replacements: 16 Davide Giazzon, 17 Cherif Traorè, 18 Salesi Manu, 19 Marco Fuser, 20 Marco Lazzaroni, 21 Alberto Lucchese, 22 Luke McLean, 23 Tommaso Iannone

ClanofLams

I don't think it will be that straightforward. This is last chance saloon for Treviso and a win would almost certainly put them in the Champions Cup. Glasgow had a strong team out over there and Treviso stuck with them for 50 mins.

Think Connacht will win but not by as much as many expect.

BrokenMan

I reckon it could be tight enough until 60 mins then the bench will come on and should be able to cut loose.
Our bench is way stronger than theirs and they will be tiring.
Still think its a 5 pointer.

galwaylad14

Well sure once we win that's all that matters. Two wins of any description guarantee us a home semi final. So no need to be worrying about bonus points or anything anyways.

Must say I didn't expect us to rest that many players, that's a long way from a full strength team but it should still be well good enough against a very poor team.
Good to see Aki not listed as injured, so hopefully he's just rested and will be fine for the Glasgow game.

connachta

Well I'm puzzeled by Lam's team. It could cost us the win. Treviso spent the last two months preparing this. Can't wait to see Robb/Parata and THAT back-row in action though

To finish about O'Donnell, the point about the knock-on is just as ridiculous as yours "he put himself in a position to score a try". Yes, he received a pass 5 meters from the tryline and knocked-on. And trusting very very young players at some point yes, but not in the most important moment in Connacht's history. I thought it was common sense, apparently not. But anyway, injured, and I'll be glad to see him next season (with Eagles and on the bench sometimes in pro12, not for ChampionsCup of course)

Robbo

I'm getting all nostalgic at the prospect of Fionn Carr bagging a try or two for a send off. Let's not forget that through some awful times he'd always manage to brighten things up.

Zzippy

connachta wrote: »

Well I'm puzzeled by Lam's team. It could cost us the win. Treviso spent the last two months preparing this. Can't wait to see Robb/Parata and THAT back-row in action though

To finish about O'Donnell, the point about the knock-on is just as ridiculous as yours "he put himself in a position to score a try". Yes, he received a pass 5 meters from the tryline and knocked-on. And trusting very very young players at some point yes, but not in the most important moment in Connacht's history. I thought it was common sense, apparently not. But anyway, injured, and I'll be glad to see him next season (with Eagles and on the bench sometimes in pro12, not for ChampionsCup of course)

He's already been trusted on numerous occasions to come on and do a job, and has shown he's well up to the task. If you're good enough you're old enough, and he's good enough. Using a knock on to criticise a young player is ridiculously harsh, and really just scratching around for something to justify your argument.

cosalofa

Robbo wrote: »

I'm getting all nostalgic at the prospect of Fionn Carr bagging a try or two for a send off. Let's not forget that through some awful times he'd always manage to brighten things up.

He looked sharp when he came on against Munster. I would love to see him get a try as well.

FACECUTTR

cblaix wrote: »

He looked sharp when he came on against Munster. I would love to see him get a try as well.

Perfect opportunity for him to show his class. He's in the shop window so I bet he will have a cracker

connachta

Robbo wrote: »

I'm getting all nostalgic at the prospect of Fionn Carr bagging a try or two for a send off. Let's not forget that through some awful times he'd always manage to brighten things up.

Agree

Zzippy wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Well I'm puzzeled by Lam's team. It could cost us the win. Treviso spent the last two months preparing this. Can't wait to see Robb/Parata and THAT back-row in action though

To finish about O'Donnell, the point about the knock-on is just as ridiculous as yours "he put himself in a position to score a try". Yes, he received a pass 5 meters from the tryline and knocked-on. And trusting very very young players at some point yes, but not in the most important moment in Connacht's history. I thought it was common sense, apparently not. But anyway, injured, and I'll be glad to see him next season (with Eagles and on the bench sometimes in pro12, not for ChampionsCup of course)

He's already been trusted on numerous occasions to come on and do a job, and has shown he's well up to the task. If you're good enough you're old enough, and he's good enough. Using a knock on to criticise a young player is ridiculously harsh, and really just scratching around for something to justify your argument.

I was not using anything just answering to someone who used this action FOR HIS CREDIT!!! Complete nonsense

thomond2006

connachta wrote: »

Well I'm puzzeled by Lam's team. It could cost us the win. Treviso spent the last two months preparing this. Can't wait to see Robb/Parata and THAT back-row in action though

It's not puzzling to me. The current form of both sides means the BP will probably be wrapped up after 50 minutes. I don't buy the 'two months preparing for this' argument, you don't go out to get deliberately hammered in three games straight. There's also a lot of starters in that injury list. It cannot cost a win as there is a very strong bench to come to save the day if needs be. The full team will play against Glasgow and then get a rest before (hopefully!) two playoff games.

Zzippy

Also good to see Aki not included on the injured list. He seemed to be taking part in the pitch session during the week, so hopefully he'll be fit for next week.

wp_rathead

Robbo wrote: »

I'm getting all nostalgic at the prospect of Fionn Carr bagging a try or two for a send off. Let's not forget that through some awful times he'd always manage to brighten things up.

100%
He actually started of this season really well but then got injured
Hopefully he finds a club in England or France (hell even one of the two Italian sides)