Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

Utopia Parkway

b.gud wrote: »

Looks like George is off to Harlequins

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIK5EQmjDFj/

Great move for George. Didn't think he's get a move to such a high profile club. Not sure how much he'll play there barring injuries but great for him all the same.

testtech05

Looks like George might get a bit more game time than I had anticipated and best of luck to him!!
http://www.the42.ie/nick-easter-player-coach-retire-2901597-Jul2016/

irishgrover

I really am terribly happy for George...It was wrong to say I was worried about him, I don't know him..but himself and his wife seemed to really invest in Connacht, and seemed like really nice people. so it's great to see him get such a high profile gig...I hope they get on wonderfully!

FACECUTTR

I think depending on how the super semi's go we could be hearing news of a signing or 2 next week.

hermano

FACECUTTR wrote: »

I think depending on how the super semi's go we could be hearing news of a signing or 2 next week.

Are you just guessing or is there a rumoured signing from NZ?

FACECUTTR

hermano wrote: »

Are you just guessing or is there a rumoured signing from NZ?

There has been a rumour of a second row kiwi in talks a while back. Recruitment has not finished as they always release a statement to say so.

connachta

Chiefs out of Super Rugby, based on Lam past signing Clarke/Aki, we should hear about someone next week. But they run out of 2nd row, so I doubt it...

b.gud

Am I the only one who doesn't get the, once a team is out of Super rugby we'll know about signings thing that's been going on here for the past few days?

When we signed Clarke and Aki those deals were done and announced well ahead of the playoffs

connachta

b.gud wrote: »

Am I the only one who doesn't get the, once a team is out of Super rugby we'll know about signings thing that's been going on here for the past few days?

When we signed Clarke and Aki those deals were fone and announced well ahead of the playoffs

we know that, but it is the only explanation for the delay, as the recruitement is not officially over

b.gud

connachta wrote: »

we know that, but it is the only explanation for the delay, as the recruitement is not officially over

If there is a NZ signing to come I reckon it's more likely to be a Heenan/Fox-Matamua type than someone who is involved with a super rugby team. Not that that's a bad thing

Zzippy

connachta wrote: »

we know that, but it is the only explanation for the delay, as the recruitement is not officially over

It's not the only explanation.

connachta

Zzippy wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

we know that, but it is the only explanation for the delay, as the recruitement is not officially over

It's not the only explanation.

Oh Zzippy has inner information. hope it's a confirmation of good news!

Zzippy

connachta wrote: »

Oh Zzippy has inner information. hope it's a confirmation of good news!

No, just saying that there can be other explanations. Pinning all your hopes on a big Super Rugby signing and refusing to think there could be other explanations for a delay in any announcement (if there is going to be one at all) is pure fantasy.

connachta

Zzippy wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Oh Zzippy has inner information. hope it's a confirmation of good news!

No, just saying that there can be other explanations. Pinning all your hopes on a big Super Rugby signing and refusing to think there could be other explanations for a delay in any announcement (if there is going to be one at all) is pure fantasy.

I'm not refusing anything. Just think the recruitement isn't over, announcement would have been made. And I'm open to other explainations, nobody gave me one that's all. Debate is on, why it's so late to come? Contract issues?

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

I'm not refusing anything. Just think the recruitement isn't over, announcement would have been made. And I'm open to other explainations, nobody gave me one that's all. Debate is on, why it's so late to come? Contract issues?

Connacht would make an announcement just to say their recruitment is over for the season?

connemara man

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Connacht would make an announcement just to say their recruitment is over for the season?

It's usually a tag line at the end of a recruitment announcement

irishbucsfan

connemara man wrote: »

It's usually a tag line at the end of a recruitment announcement

If they know they're done at the time they make an announcement

connemara man

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If they know they're done at the time they make an announcement

ah yeah. I personally amn't holding out hope that there will be like above though based on that

former total

The logic is: we haven't been specifically told it's not happening, therefore it must be happening? OK...

connachta

The logic is also 4 locks + Qualter, among who 2 are international, that's not enough to play ChampionsCup.

freyners

Finn Russell likely out for the opener. With weir gone who's the likely OH?

FACECUTTR

freyners wrote: »

Finn Russell likely out for the opener. With weir gone who's the likely OH?

They have signed a young kiwi and re-signed Rory Clegg along with whoever else was already in the squad. Glasgow seem to have signed and let go a good few players. It might take a while for the squad to gel so I don't expect them to be up to speed until after Christmas.

Adbrowne

FACECUTTR wrote: »

They have signed a young kiwi and re-signed Rory Clegg along with whoever else was already in the squad. Glasgow seem to have signed and let go a good few players. It might take a while for the squad to gel so I don't expect them to be up to speed until after Christmas.

They have a full pre season this year so I would expect them to be much better this season from much earlier, Leinster and Ospreys too

connachta

connachta wrote: »

The logic is also 4 locks + Qualter, among who 2 are international, that's not enough to play ChampionsCup.

Other reason :

Connacht have only 1 NIQ (Boshoff) + 3 project Pl, among who 2 will be IQ as soon as next season (and probably straight into the Irish squad : McCartney and Aki)
There's absolutely no reason for IRFU to forbid a NIQ lock, except maybe Munster having recruited overseas here, again...

Would you rather Connacht go out and get an NIQ lock, or tie Bundee down to a new long term contract? Just a hypothetical question

connachta

IMO there's no talk about preference. We need one lock, full-blank. If Roux and Dillane are called by Joe again in November/February, and one of the injury-prone Browne/Marshall is unavailable, we're done. Would mean both Qualter and 20 y-o academy 2nd row on a same teamsheet. No way...

hermano

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you rather Connacht go out and get an NIQ lock, or tie Bundee down to a new long term contract? Just a hypothetical question

Easy question, bundee for life. He could probably do a job in the second row if we're stuck

Zzippy

connachta wrote: »

IMO there's no talk about preference. We need one lock, full-blank. If Roux and Dillane are called by Joe again in November/February, and one of the injury-prone Browne/Marshall is unavailable, we're done. Would mean both Qualter and 20 y-o academy 2nd row on a same teamsheet. No way...

Sean O'Brien can also cover second row. Marshall has had one bad injury, that's not "injury-prone". We have to play within our resources, that means not buying in a player every time there is a perceived need, but also trusting our young players and bringing in academy players to bring them on. Pat has done that very well to date and I would expect him to continue to do so.

connachta

Zzippy wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

IMO there's no talk about preference. We need one lock, full-blank. If Roux and Dillane are called by Joe again in November/February, and one of the injury-prone Browne/Marshall is unavailable, we're done. Would mean both Qualter and 20 y-o academy 2nd row on a same teamsheet. No way...

Sean O'Brien can also cover second row. Marshall has had one bad injury, that's not "injury-prone". We have to play within our resources, that means not buying in a player every time there is a perceived need, but also trusting our young players and bringing in academy players to bring them on. Pat has done that very well to date and I would expect him to continue to do so.

Disagree, Marshall had two severe injuries in a row, SOB was converted to 6/8 for a reason. And bringing 20 y.o guys for the backline isn't the same as doing such thing for 2nd row. Look at Dillane, only burst into the squad in the end of last season, and still row material at 23. Claffey/Romaine/Gallagher will be useful. In 2 or 3 years. Just the period of time for a new NIQ deal

former total

I think it's questionable if Roux will be heavily involved with Ireland this season, but if he is, that makes it less likely that someone will be signed, not more.

Five senior locks would seem to be plenty.

Bazzo

connachta wrote: »

Disagree, Marshall had two severe injuries in a row, SOB was converted to 6/8 for a reason. And bringing 20 y.o guys for the backline isn't the same as doing such thing for 2nd row. Look at Dillane, only burst into the squad in the end of last season, and still row material at 23. Claffey/Romaine/Gallagher will be useful. In 2 or 3 years. Just the period of time for a new NIQ deal

Maro Itoje is 21. There's no reason for stopping young academy guys from playing for the seniors just because they're forwards.

connachta

Really want to compare both situations? Itoje plays among the most experienced : Alistair Hargreaves, Hamilton, Kruis, now Burger. Romaine/Claffey/Gallagher would play with Marshall, Qualter, Browne who barely played rugby last season, even Roux. I know we are the poor relation of rugby, but we're gonna compete in the same ChampionsCup. Come on guys, let's be serious, we lost McCarthy, Clarke, Kearney, Swifty, we are just desperatly weak for 2nd row with a 23 y.o Dillane as our best reference

connemara man

connachta wrote: »

Really want to compare both situations? Itoje plays among the most experienced : Alistair Hargreaves, Hamilton, Kruis, now Burger. Romaine/Claffey/Gallagher would play with Marshall, Qualter, Browne who barely played rugby last season, even Roux. I know we are the poor relation of rugby, but we're gonna compete in the same ChampionsCup. Come on guys, let's be serious, we lost McCarthy, Clarke, Kearney, Swifty, we are just desperatly weak for 2nd row with a 23 y.o Dillane as our best reference

Only second row we've list over the summer is muldowney.

By using everyone there as examples is a bit of a red herring to your argument.

We don't have any senior locks for sure but Dillane, Browne, Roux are great talents. Marshall showed in the little he played he'll be good. And more than able to mix it with the best

Eventually these players have to prove they are worth their spot. I think they are BTW and I trust Pats ability to get the best out of everyone and to tailor a game to suit his players of all abilities.

Zzippy

Connachta, who's going to pay for this NIQ second row, that you want to come from a Super Rugby playoff team, and therefore will command a very big salary? We're not made of money, we still have the smallest budget of any of the provinces. To quote yourself, let's be serious. We have 5 senior locks plus SOB plus academy options, that's as many as the other provinces have. The likelihood at this stage of a NIQ signing is quite low. You need to reset your expectations.

connachta

Zzippy wrote: »

Connachta, who's going to pay for this NIQ second row, that you want to come from a Super Rugby playoff team, and therefore will command a very big salary? We're not made of money, we still have the smallest budget of any of the provinces. To quote yourself, let's be serious. We have 5 senior locks plus SOB plus academy options, that's as many as the other provinces have. The likelihood at this stage of a NIQ signing is quite low. You need to reset your expectations.

Naoupu covered 2nd row two, and on decent money. I want this money on a same kind of player, just more a 5 than a n 8. And please don't say Kelleher, Robb, Carey, McCoy are on higher money than Carr, Finn, AhYou, Muldowney, all released. The only "spending" for now is Boshoff instead of McGinty

I deeply think we have the room for a good senior lock, if not a Super Rugby one, at least a solid ITMCup one

b.gud

Chiefs are gone from the play offs lets sign Brodie Retallick, just imagine him and Dillane together on the field at the same time

connachta

5 senior locks?
Dillane and Marshall have 20 caps each in all their career, half on the bench. Qualter has 6, never starts. Roux was mostly a sub in S-A, Leinster and Connacht too

So, no we haven't enough to face Toulouse and Wasps. Talented they might be, but this talent needs a good journeyman, like Muldowney was, to be expressed/completed
Look I'm not greedy, Rowland wasn't that needed, and I think we're ok at n 8 despite Masterson injury/Naoupu gone. But IMO we're incredibly light for locks

wp_rathead

connachta wrote: »

Naoupu covered 2nd row two, and on decent money. I want this money on a same kind of player, just more a 5 than a n 8. And please don't say Kelleher, Robb, Carey, McCoy are on higher money than Carr, Finn, AhYou, Muldowney, all released. The only "spending" for now is Boshoff instead of McGinty

I deeply think we have the room for a giood senior lock, if not a Super Rugby one, at least a solid ITMCup one

Connachta, there is a sh!t load of contracts up end of this season
After the success we had their agents are rightly gonna be asking for a fatter pay cheque.
Lam has always talked about him wanting Connacht to be sustainable long term- splashing out on a marquee SR would be amazing but it is pretty unrealistic

Zzippy

connachta wrote: »

Naoupu covered 2nd row two, and on decent money. I want this money on a same kind of player, just more a 5 than a n 8. And please don't say Kelleher, Robb, Carey, McCoy are on higher money than Carr, Finn, AhYou, Muldowney, all released. The only "spending" for now is Boshoff instead of McGinty

I deeply think we have the room for a good senior lock, if not a Super Rugby one, at least a solid ITMCup one

Boshoff will be on a lot more money than McGinty was. We also need to hold some money back for contract renewals next season - if Aki stays he will be on a telephone number salary and the IRFU won't cover all of it, indeed may not cover any of it til he actually plays for Ireland. We're also trying to progress ground improvements which may include buying IGB out of their lease, but will certainly include capital spending. Sure forget about all that, let's just blow the lot now on a second row.... :rolleyes:

connachta

wp_rathead wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Naoupu covered 2nd row two, and on decent money. I want this money on a same kind of player, just more a 5 than a n 8. And please don't say Kelleher, Robb, Carey, McCoy are on higher money than Carr, Finn, AhYou, Muldowney, all released. The only "spending" for now is Boshoff instead of McGinty

I deeply think we have the room for a giood senior lock, if not a Super Rugby one, at least a solid ITMCup one

Connachta, there is a sh!t load of contracts up end of this season
After the success we had their agents are rightly gonna be asking for a fatter pay cheque.
Lam has always talked about him wanting Connacht to be sustainable long term- splashing out on a marquee SR would be amazing but it is pretty unrealistic

if we can't have a 'marquee" one, a good 30 years old ITM will hold the house. Better than a U20 inside an already young engine room. sorry to downsize the input of the Academy guys, I just think they are in year 1 and need 2 or 3 years to be in a senior squad

I say you might be setting yourself up for a breakdown Connachta
It's getting late in the pre-season, and there hasn't been any rumor of a NIQ lock being signed (apart from Porterbelly(?) I think at the start of the summer)

Anyway, if Pat thinks we're ok
Or, if it's not possible to get someone in - Probably the main cause
Then, we just have to get on with it.

I'd still love to see more players come in, but I'm not expecting any more signings this summer, or at least not any players we'd expect to see come straight into the team

connachta

Zzippy wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Naoupu covered 2nd row two, and on decent money. I want this money on a same kind of player, just more a 5 than a n 8. And please don't say Kelleher, Robb, Carey, McCoy are on higher money than Carr, Finn, AhYou, Muldowney, all released. The only "spending" for now is Boshoff instead of McGinty

I deeply think we have the room for a good senior lock, if not a Super Rugby one, at least a solid ITMCup one

Boshoff will be on a lot more money than McGinty was. We also need to hold some money back for contract renewals next season - if Aki stays he will be on a telephone number salary and the IRFU won't cover all of it, indeed may not cover any of it til he actually plays for Ireland. We're also trying to progress ground improvements which may include buying IGB out of their lease, but will certainly include capital spending. Sure forget about all that, let's just blow the lot now on a second row.... :rolleyes:

We released Harris-Wright too. About Aki, I think he should be straight on a central contract next season (IQ), as Henshaw should have been to lower our budget

connachta

Anyway if we can't afford one last signing (a financial nightmare), I claim the money, even low, should have been placed on a ITM Lock instead of Rowland or Kelleher

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

Anyway if we can't afford one last signing (a financial nightmare), I claim the money, even low, should have been placed on a ITM Lock instead of Rowland or Kelleher

Which lock are you looking for, is there any available who fit the bill?

connachta

connachta wrote: »

Anyway if we can't afford one last signing (a financial nightmare), I claim the money, even low, should have been placed on a ITM Lock instead of Rowland or Kelleher

Sorry, but where do you think all this money is coming from?
You listed all the players leaving. How many of them do you think were on decent money?

I think you're making a lot of assumptions regarding Connachts finances.
I have a lot more faith in the people in charge, who make these decisions, than a voice on the internet.

Do you think Pat Lam and the management team looked at the squad, and thought, this is it. There's no rugby players out there, who could improve this squad? I dont think so.
I'm sure he looked around, saw what he thought were positions that we could strengthen, and then looked at the finances, and added to the squad as best they could
You also have to consider the fact, that coming to play for Connacht might still not be an attractive idea to a lot of rugby players. Good NIQ can move to France or England, and get paid a lot more than they do here.

For some reason, I doubt Connacht have too much money, just sitting in an account, not been used.
Whatever money they may have, I'm sure has been ear-marked for other expenses

i.e.
Contract extensions for people like Bundee, Tom, etc.
Improvement to Sportsground
Paying wages

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Anyway if we can't afford one last signing (a financial nightmare), I claim the money, even low, should have been placed on a ITM Lock instead of Rowland or Kelleher

Which lock are you looking for, is there any available who fit the bill?

Josh Bekhuis just signed by Lyon, Mark Reddish by Quins and Joe Wheeler, off to Japan (for money indeed) were the perfect journeymen examples, but there is also (still available AFAIK) HOANI MATENGA (29) from the Blues where Lam is from.

At ITM level, with experience, you have Fraser Stone, Shane Neville in division 1

connemara man

connachta wrote: »

Josh Bekhuis just signed by Lyon, Mark Reddish by Quins and Joe Wheeler, off to Japan (for money indeed) were the perfect journeymen examples, but there is also (still available AFAIK) HOANI MATENGA (29) from the Blues where Lam is from.

At ITM level, with experience, you have Fraser Stone, Shane Neville in division 1

So Haoni Matenga? If the others have signed contracts they aren't available...

I don't know anything about him what would he bring to Connacht apart from playing in super rugby?

connachta

connemara man wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Josh Bekhuis just signed by Lyon, Mark Reddish by Quins and Joe Wheeler, off to Japan (for money indeed) were the perfect journeymen examples, but there is also (still available AFAIK) HOANI MATENGA (29) from the Blues where Lam is from.

At ITM level, with experience, you have Fraser Stone, Shane Neville in division 1

So Haoni Matenga? If the others have signed contracts they aren't available...

I don't know anything about him what would he bring to Connacht apart from playing in super rugby?

ITM is over in October, we can sign one of them after like we did for Aki/McCartney, can't we?, which will lower the wage burden for 2 months BTW

connemara man

connachta wrote: »

ITM is over in October, we can sign one of them after like we did for Aki/McCartney, can't we?, which will lower the wage burden for 2 months BTW

But what are they bringing talent wise? What specific areas will they improve apart from depth. Are you saying they are Better than all our possible starting locks?

former total

Just to be clear; this is all hypothetical, there's no indication that anyone is being signed?