Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

flouncer

On reflection its good to get a kick up the arse from time to time. I would rather that it happened against cardiff. If it happened against ulster or Leinster then there is the pride issue. So I guess there was something learnt last night and it didn't hurt as much as it might should it have been our interprovincial friends.

connachta

Ulster is the real decider, I've been convinced of this for a long time
They are lower in confidence than we are, concerned by injuries as we are (Iain Henderson, Darren Cave, Peter Nelson and Dan Tuohy prob out), and they're playing Toulouse twice before us, and Munster home the week just after.
This is a game we should won. Front up, rise up!!!

PS : I can't help but ardently desire to watch "the battle of the midfield monsters" Robb vs McCloskey : 220 kg running full-speed toward each other:D

flouncer

No matter what zzippy says if toh is not called up to the international squad it would be a total travesty

its_phil

connachta wrote: »

If I were cynical I'd say the positive of injuries is they could "protect" Buckley, Poolman, Heenan, Roux, Masterson and Muldowney from the Ireland selection for 6 nations. So that we can have the 6 of them for the January-April window

And yes I endorse i'd prefer having the Connacht colony for Ireland AND HCup next season starting this summer rather playing of post RWC tournament

No chance Poolman, Heenan (not IQ), Roux or Muldowney will be there. Masterson is also a long shot and even longer to be in 23.

connachta

its_phil wrote: »

No chance Poolman, Heenan (not IQ), Roux or Muldowney will be there. Masterson is also a long shot and even longer to be in 23.

Sorry, I persuaded myself Heenan had his 3 years. Disagree for Muldowney. And Poolman, has he been less injury-prone, would have been in contention with any current Irish wingers, judged on his qualities

flouncer

If I were to pick a team against Newcastle it would be
Leader, parata, Robb, aki, Healy, porter, jack, loughney, delahunt, white, muldowney, dillane, Muldoon, Connelly, George.
hope all folks at the game got home safely. Shocking weather.

Stan27

What is the story with Heenan.
Will they give him more time than usual to recover as if it happens again it could be game over for him.
Great player

connachta

Stan27 wrote: »

What is the story with Heenan.
Will they give him more time than usual to recover as if it happens again it could be game over for him.
Great player

The story is they already gave him more time than usual to recover. The traditional 6-month period was over in October. Two months later, I think he's ok to be played, no reason to wrap him up in cotoon wool. He appeared on full-contact trainning pic, I have great hopes to see him against Ulster!

wp_rathead

connachta wrote: »

The story is they already gave him more time than usual to recover. The traditional 6-month period was over in October. Two months later, I think he's ok to be played, no reason to wrap him up in cotoon wool. He appeared on full-contact trainning pic, I have great hopes to see him against Ulster!

This was his second shoulder reconstruction - it would be pure negligence to rush him

connachta

Here he is

connachta

wp_rathead wrote: »

This was his second shoulder reconstruction - it would be pure negligence to rush him

8 months is not "rushing him"

freyners

connachta wrote: »

8 months is not "rushing him"

8 months means damn all. He could have had a slow recovery ro a more lengthy rehab.

To stick him in vs ulster is rushing him if he has only started contact training (i believe, open to correction here), hasnt played in almost a year and you stick him in the most intense game as a first outing

connachta

For Newcastle not many choices to build the team, but still looks good though

1) Lough
2) Heff
3) AhYou
4) Qualter
5) Marshall
6) SOB
7) Connolly
8) Naoupu
9) Blade
10) Carty
12) Robb
13) McSharry
11) Niyi
14) Parata
15) Leader

16) Dela
17) O'Donnell
18) Bealham
19) Dillane
20) ??? Browne maybe
21) ????
22) ?????
23) TOH

connachta

freyners wrote: »

It is rushing him if he has only started contact training, hasnt played in almost a year and you stick him in the most intense game as a first outing

No, I'd send him to Newcaslte on the bench

freyners

connachta wrote: »

For Newcastle not many choices to build the team, but still looks good though

1) Lough
2) Heff
3) AhYou
4) Qualter
5) Marshall
6) SOB
7) Connolly
8) Naoupu
9) Blade
10) Carty
12) Robb
13) McSharry
11) Niyi
14) Parata
15) Leader

16) Dela
17) O'Donnell
18) Bealham
19) Dillane
20) ??? Browne maybe
21) ????
22) ?????
23) TOH

If Rodney wasnt just back I would have gave this game to Bealham but Rodney needs gametime. Porter/Marmion at SH reserve, one of them will hopefully be passed fit. 22 is worry, pity SOL is out

connachta

freyners wrote: »

If Rodney wasnt just back I would have gave this game to Bealham but Rodney needs gametime. Porter/Marmion at SH reserve, one of them will hopefully be passed fit. 22 is worry, pity SOL is out

indeed as Conor McKeon isn't listed in the challenge Cup squad.. Parata McSharry or Leader to play outhalf?

connachta

freyners wrote: »

, pity SOL is out

Shane O'Leary isn't out anymore though, played for Galweygians this W-E with Blade (who scored 2 tries, and 1 for O'Leary btw). But same problem as C.McKeon, he's not listed for Europe, is he?

Bazzo

No he's not in the squad either.

Cross our fingers and hope Ronaldson is ok is about all we can do I'm afraid. Otherwise Jack will have to play both full games.

connachta

No SOL I checked as you did Bazzo. I guess Lam will use this article to have O'Leary in the mix "Each club may register up to two additional players during the pool stage, each to replace a player previously registered. "

But It means one of McGinty/Ronaldson cannot play in European competition until k.o stages

b.gud

If you're gonna sacrifice one of them it has to be MacGinty as he's def out for a few weeks where as Ronaldson could potentially be back this week if he passes the return to play

S12b

Any updates on injuries issued yet? From the 23 that went to Cardiff.....

1) Roux looked serious
2) Did anyone see what happened Porter? Was hobbling just before h/t and didn't come back....slight ankle twist?
3) McKeon looked relatively serious
4) Marmion + Ronaldson concussion

Other possibles
5) Aki turned his ankle
6) Healy was holding his arm/hand around the 50 min mark as if he had broken it
7) Loughney was down at some stage

connachta

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro12/surfing-connachts-rising-tide-of-optimism-34262186.html
your idol Flouncer

Bazzo

S12b wrote: »

Any updates on injuries issued yet? From the 23 that went to Cardiff.....

1) Roux looked serious
2) Did anyone see what happened Porter? Was hobbling just before h/t and didn't come back....slight ankle twist?
3) McKeon looked relatively serious
4) Marmion + Ronaldson concussion

Other possibles
5) Aki turned his ankle
6) Healy was holding his arm/hand around the 50 min mark as if he had broken it
7) Loughney was down at some stage

Loughney twisted his ankle/knee in contact and had to hobble off with assistance, couldn't put weight on it. Healy was holding his wrist I think.

maoriincork

Shelflife wrote: »

Yeah the ref has had better days at the office, the Carty pen was correct, when I removed my green tinged glasses you could see that he led with the shoulders and then attempted to wrap, I was more disappointed in the fact that Mul was hit with a cheap shot at the breakdown and that wasnt picked up.

Its annoying the way that every decision by the ref is picked on and discussed but the biggest error which cost us the match is hardly mentioned. O Donnell knocked the ball on when if he had just put it on the line we win the game .

Not im not saying that we should vilify Conan for the error its simply that an error, but that particular one cost us the game. But instead we harp on and on and on about the ref did this and the ref didnt do that. Refs like players are actually human too and will make mistakes, some go your way some go against you.

We need to park the refs errors in the same way we park the errors made by Conan and the rest of the players.

The problem is we can blame the ref. Bundee taken out in the air. Penalty straight in front.
Carty no hands tackle. Ok penalty but in the ensuring ruck a far more dangerous episode. Attacking a players head with the shoulder. Penalty reversed and red card as per RWC. Another 3 points or even a try could have happened. Kicked to the side line out. They are without there 4 and how many tries have we scored in line out mauls. There 8 throwing punches/slaps at the feet of the ref. Penalty reversed no try to Cardiff we are back into their half.
So you can't just dismiss the refs poor performance and say we wouldn't have won. You can't say we would have won either but you certainly can say it is a lot harder playing a against a team when the ref is making blatant bad calls against your team.

connemara man

Friday was so disappointing for so many reasons, that game was lost by our own doing, well before the injury crisis started to unfold.

It was lost last week with the win over Munster, that emotional relief from breaking the hoo doo, that almost perfect performance, the standards, and the intensity would have been near impossible to replicate let alone get over 50% of them. And I say that with no disrespect to the players and coaching team, it's human nature.

But with that said we played patches of good rugby. Cardiff are a poor team, and Connacht let themselves get dragged down to their level. There was a lack of intensity (I hate that term) but you could see it one of runners and receiving the ball static. The subtlety in the passing was gone ship along in the forwards instead of the depth pass to really do damage. The ball spread across the back line but sometimes very little imagination. It was disappointing. Yet we were never put away but we never pulled away such was the standard of the match. As if no one really wanted to outright win it.

Injuries then played a part and the single most important loss IMO was Ronaldson there's a saying “you don't know what you've got till it's gone” well we lost a rudder with his injury. Guidance everyone can look to. I don't like picking on players but I'd say there's still people wondering where Carty is. Anonymous for huge chunks and it showed. Bundee was first receiver for too often. Marmion may have rectified that but we'll never really know. Just hopefully the long term injury list doesn't balloon because of this.

In a sport based in momentum there was 21 scrums on Friday that's one almost every 4 minutes 14 of which came from Connacht (18 knock ons in total by Connacht). Connacht dominated almost every aspect of the game according to stats but the one above will almost guarantee you won't win or put a challenge to the opposition. Handing back possession time and time again is a recipe disaster.

As a team questions need to be asked. Not all is doom and gloom muldowney, Aki, Connolly, played well Parata and Robb did a job but over all we were poor.

I'll not give out about poor decisions as I'm sure you could find a few the other way. But to me Carty had his arm out to wrap. I say that in the sense if that's a tackle on the hip or chest his right arm would be the same. But we wouldn't have been there if Bundee being taken out in the air gets spotted. (See above about momentum)

I am of the opinion that Muldoon isn't a great communicator. He's a leader and a great Captain in that sense but I think he gets on the wrong side of referees, berates doesn't chat. Whines not questions. And by the time he's cooled down enough to deal with the ref the damage is done. He should really take a leaf out of Jamie Heaslips book always jogging lines to have a chat and making sure the ref knows he's listening and asking questions so he's learning how the ref is interpreting things. This way decisions have less chance of going against you.

As a Connacht fan I was more disappointed in the manner of the loss than the loss itself. I have seen this team develop grow and strengthen. And now I expect a standard. They are reaching a bar which they fell well short of on Friday. I'm looking to the Euro matches for wins nothing fancy get players back playing and look to Ulster at home.

wp_rathead

HOME!

Think you're being tad harsh Connemara Man- we played some great rugby at times Friday- Parata and Robb were very lively when they came on. Handling errors did cost us, although I'm still adamant that Roux was interfered with in the air at around the 35th min from a 5m Lineout- a try then would have put us 8 or 10 points up at half time. We should have been more than 3 points up HT with the first half performance.. (fairly sure that I said same thing about last year's Cardiff away game)

Not going to blame the referee for the defeat. Although I did think he gave two soft penalties to Cardiff in the 2nd half for "not supporting their weight" - against Connolly (which Patchell amazingly missed) and against Bundee from Half way line (which he got, and would turn out to be the winning penalty)- he then missed clear tackle in the air on Bundee (would have been a yellow in the RWC so don't get why it's not even a penalty in the Pro12).
The Carty "no arm" tackle was weird- very bad technique but don't know if it was illegal..
That said- we got a fairly soft penalty in the first half for a "high tackle"

Special mention to TOH and Bundee Aki- they were sensational throughout. They looked a class apart. Apart from a knock on from a restart Jame Connolly was once again very impressive.

I do agree that Muldoon tends to rub ref's up the wrong way at times and maybe someone like Muldowney or McCartney would be better suited to be captain in regards communication with the ref

Some bad looking injuries out there though- Roux's ankle, Loughney hobbling off, Marmion and Ronaldson concussed, McKeon's arm, Bundee Aki was hobbling very badly at the end of the game (had to lean on Robb as he couldn't support his weight). Healy looked like he was playing with a damaged wrist for last half an hour- he kept holding and stretching his hand at stoppages in play. Not sure what happened Ian Porter.


Some people are comparing this to our defeat to Edinburgh last year that started the run of poor results- I saw enough good play Friday night to remain optimistic that this is just a minor blip in what is a very promising season. We were a dropped ball from O'Donnell away from a win there..

Now bed time, as I'm up in 5 hours for work

Black_Knight

wp_rathead wrote: »

Some bad looking injuries out there though- Roux's ankle, Loughney hobbling off, Marmion and Ronaldson concussed, McKeon's arm, Bundee Aki was hobbling very badly at the end of the game (had to lean on Robb as he couldn't support his weight). Healy looked like he was playing with a damaged wrist for last half an hour- he kept holding and stretching his hand at stoppages in play. Not sure what happened Ian Porter.

Spotted Bundee in the airport. Seemed to be getting around handy enough on his own anyways. Knee was a bit wrapped up, and a bit of a limp, but seems very much mobile.

wp_rathead

Some impressive attacking stats from the game
Tiernan O'Halloran running the ball 17 times from FB
Bundee beating 8 Cardiff players
Peter Robb beating 6 on his Pro 12 debut
Healy's impressive considering he played second half as SH

evil_seed

Tiernan ran too much IMO. There was a handful of times when kicking the ball was the more pragmatic approach

wp_rathead

evil_seed wrote: »

Tiernan ran too much IMO. There was a handful of times when kicking the ball was the more pragmatic approach

Ya I agree - only noticed he kicked ball twice (and one of them was for the dink that Bundee got tackled in air)
While it's refreshing to see there needs be a balance alright

connachta

Black_Knight wrote: »

Spotted Bundee in the airport. Seemed to be getting around handy enough on his own anyways. Knee was a bit wrapped up, and a bit of a limp, but seems very much mobile.

Robb/Aki, or McSharry/Aki will give a hard time to Ulster. Can't wait for it

S12b

Technical question for the more knowledgeable out there.

For the phase of play where Marmion got concussed - Cardiff scrum about 15 in from the right touch line, cuthbert comes in off right wing and stands at first receiver. Carty/Robb/Aki all defending the Cardiff 10/12/13 who are outside Cuthbert leaving the space between the Connacht scrum and Carty wide open for Cuthbert to run at. Marmion came off scrum and defended that space but ended up 1 on 1 v Cuthbert who had 15 yards momentum built up........is this typically how such a situation should be defended?

If anyone wants to watch, it's right at the start of second half.....scrum came from Connolly dropping the restart.

freyners

S12b wrote: »

Technical question for the more knowledgeable out there.

For the phase of play where Marmion got concussed - Cardiff scrum about 15 in from the right touch line, cuthbert comes in off right wing and stands at first receiver. Carty/Robb/Aki all defending the Cardiff 10/12/13 who are outside Cuthbert leaving the space between the Connacht scrum and Carty wide open for Cuthbert to run at. Marmion came off scrum and defended that space but ended up 1 on 1 v Cuthbert who had 15 yards momentum built up........is this typically how such a situation should be defended?

If anyone wants to watch, it's right at the start of second half.....scrum came from Connolly dropping the restart.

Generally your 9 trails the ball across as a sweeper with the flanker and 8 defending the channel between outhalf and the scrum, usually watching the opposite 9 and 8 respectively. When a winger steps off the inside you would hope one of the backrow had him covered but marmion would also have responsibility as sweeper. Basically if the other two are fixed its marmions tackle imo

b.gud

sh*t

Craig Ronaldson
Craig Ronaldson was concussed in the first half of Friday’s game against Cardiff Blues. He will undergo the normal return-to-play protocols.

Kieran Marmion
Substitute scrum half Kieran Marmion was concussed at the start of the second half on Friday night and will undergo the return-to-play protocols.

Ian Porter
Try scorer Ian Porter suffered an ankle ligament sprain but the injury has settled well in past 24 hours. It is hoped that the scrum half will be available for the Newcastle game this week

Eoin McKeon
Try scorer Eoin McKeon sustained an elbow medial ligament tear. While the Galway man does not require surgery, he is expected to be sidelined for 3 – 4 weeks.

Darragh Leader
Darragh Leader fractured the second metacarpal in his hand. He is awaiting surgical review but is expected to be sidelined for two months

Quinn Roux
Second row Quinn Roux sustained a ruptured ankle syndesmosis during Friday’s game. The South African is awaiting surgical review today but is expected to be out of action for up to three months.

Bundee Aki (ankle), John Muldoon (calf) and Ronan Loughney (back) all sat out training today, Monday, and there is a question mark over their availability for this week.

Others

Ben Marshall
Ben Marshall re-fractured his forearm in training last week. The 25-year-old second row, who returned to play for the Eagles last month, underwent surgery on Thursday but is facing another three months on the sidelines

Andrew Browne (hand laceration) and Danie Poolman (hamstring) are both training this week and are hopeful returnees for this week’s round three Challenge Cup clash with Newcastle Falcons

MarinersBlues

Daragh Leader is disappointing and Ben Marshall must be devestated.

However the rest is better news than I would have anticipated.

Aki and Muldoon should probably be rested for the Challenge cup anyway, and thank God it's not more serious for them and Loughney.
I would have thought Roux's season was over but it sounds like he could be back by the Six Nations.
It's a good thing Porter is alright with Marmion probably rested/injured for the next fortnight.

Concussions will happen and those lads would probably be rested/need a break anyway.

There simply cannot be as much focus on the Challenge Cup now.
All remaining guns should be fired at the Pro12.

Bazzo

I would thank you for the update but it wouldn't feel right thanking that post...

b.gud

Bazzo wrote: »

I would thank you for the update but it wouldn't feel right thanking that post...

I don't blame you in any way I wouldn't thank it either

Robbo

According to Linley McKenzie, only 23 of the European squad are fit. Of which only 9 are backs so O'Leary is being registered in place of Fox-Matamua.

thomond2006

Was the weather poor on Friday? Six injuries in one game is madness.

b.gud

Assuming Aki, Muldoon and Loughney and concussion players don't make it through and that Browne and Poolman do come through since they are back training here's the updated team of players injured/unavailable

We're close to a matchday 23 now :eek:

Denis Buckley
Tom McCartney
Ronan Loughney
Quinn Roux
Ben Marshall
Eoghan Masterson
Nepia Fox-Matamua
Jake Heenan
Kieran Marmion
AJ MacGinty
Fionn Carr
Craig Ronaldson
Api Pewhairangi
Darragh Leader
Robbie Henshaw

??
JP Cooney
??
Eoin McKeon
John Muldoon
John Cooney
??
Connor Finn

S12b

What's the deal with bringing in players who weren't originally registered for Europe.....the backrow is decimated, especially if Muldoon sits out this week.

SOB at 6 (is he registered?), Connolly at 7 and George at 8.....bench Qualter, McVeigh, Moloney? Only Qualter registered there as far as I know

wp_rathead

Riiiiiiight..
So Qualter and Dillane second row?
Browne, George and Connolly back row..?
But James Connolly is our first choice 7 so do we rest him?
Dave Heffernan or SOB2.0 on bench as backrow cover?


If Poolman available could have tasty enough backline of:
09 Blade
10 Jack
11 Niyi
12 Robb
13 Parata
14 Danie
15 ??
I've no idea what to do about 15 - guess we'll have start TOH who I was hoping we could rest
Could have Parata 15 (think he's covered that underage) and McSharry at 13??

It's getting messy though

I think Lam will pick as strong side as possible for home game and then patch together something for away game

wp_rathead

S12b wrote: »

What's the deal with bringing in players who weren't originally registered for Europe.....the backrow is decimated, especially if Muldoon sits out this week.

SOB at 6 (is he registered?), Connolly at 7 and George at 8.....bench Qualter, McVeigh, Moloney? Only Qualter registered there as far as I know

SOB is
McVeigh and Moloney aren't - nor is Jake Heenan

astonaidan

Anyone feel that TOH has a chance to make the Ireland squad for the 6 nations

freyners

thomond2006 wrote: »

Was the weather poor on Friday? Six injuries in one game is madness.

A lot of it was nasty luck, two concussions is something that is just crap luck.

The knee/ankle strains i do wonder does it come from the astro pitch, not because of the quality, but the unfamiliarity of it.

connemara man

My reaction to the injury list. Dear God make it stop!

aimee1

b.gud wrote: »

sh*t

Craig Ronaldson
Craig Ronaldson was concussed in the first half of Friday’s game against Cardiff Blues. He will undergo the normal return-to-play protocols.

Kieran Marmion
Substitute scrum half Kieran Marmion was concussed at the start of the second half on Friday night and will undergo the return-to-play protocols.

Ian Porter
Try scorer Ian Porter suffered an ankle ligament sprain but the injury has settled well in past 24 hours. It is hoped that the scrum half will be available for the Newcastle game this week

Eoin McKeon
Try scorer Eoin McKeon sustained an elbow medial ligament tear. While the Galway man does not require surgery, he is expected to be sidelined for 3 – 4 weeks.

Darragh Leader
Darragh Leader fractured the second metacarpal in his hand. He is awaiting surgical review but is expected to be sidelined for two months

Quinn Roux
Second row Quinn Roux sustained a ruptured ankle syndesmosis during Friday’s game. The South African is awaiting surgical review today but is expected to be out of action for up to three months.

Bundee Aki (ankle), John Muldoon (calf) and Ronan Loughney (back) all sat out training today, Monday, and there is a question mark over their availability for this week.

Others

Ben Marshall
Ben Marshall re-fractured his forearm in training last week. The 25-year-old second row, who returned to play for the Eagles last month, underwent surgery on Thursday but is facing another three months on the sidelines

Andrew Browne (hand laceration) and Danie Poolman (hamstring) are both training this week and are hopeful returnees for this week’s round three Challenge Cup clash with Newcastle Falcons

Any fan brings his boots to the sportsground this week might get a game :eek:

former total

astonaidan wrote: »

Anyone feel that TOH has a chance to make the Ireland squad for the 6 nations

Depends how Zebo is viewed at the time; Joe seems to like him at full-back. Rob Kearney is never far away from his next injury so that might open up a gap.

Wouldn't be shocked to see TOH training with the squad at some point but he'll need a fair bit of luck to get a jersey.

No Wolfhounds game this year either.

b.gud

former total wrote: »

Depends how Zebo is viewed at the time; Joe seems to like him at full-back. Rob Kearney is never far away from his next injury so that might open up a gap.

Wouldn't be shocked to see TOH training with the squad at some point but he'll need a fair bit of luck to get a jersey.

No Wolfhounds game this year either.

Didn't know that, is that because of the tight schedule caused by the RWC?

wp_rathead

Credit to Salmson on ConnachtClan

salmson wrote:

Available - 21
Adeolokun
Ah You
Bealham
Blade
Carty
Connolly
Delahunt
Dillane
Harris Wright
Healy
Heffernan
McSharry
Muldowney
Naoupu
O'Brien
O'Donnell
O'Halloran
Parata
Qualter
Robb
White

Possibly available - 8
Aki
Browne
Loughney
Marmion
Muldoon
Poolman
Porter
Ronaldson

Definitely unavailable - 12
Buckley - expected back for Ulster
Carr
Cooney (John)
Fox-Matamua
Henshaw
Leader
MacGinty - Scarlets (a)
Marshall
Masterson - Ulster
McCartney - Ulster
McKeon - Scarlets (a)
Roux

Not registered - 5
Cooney (JP)
Finn
Heenan
O'Leary - reported to be replacing Fox-Matamua in EPCR squad.
Pewhairangi