Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

connachta

Very good news, but lots of work to be done in the office before June, 26 players, among them 15 are very important

Denis Buckley

ABSOLUTE priority

Shane Delahunt

Priority 1

Tom McCartney

Priority 1

Dave Heffernan

Priority 1

Conor Carey

Priority 1 (so few IQ TH)

JP Cooney

Priority 2

Ronan Loughney

Priority 3

Dominic Robertson-McCoy
AND Ivan Soroka

Both not really seen yet

Lewis Stevenson
AND Danny Qualter

Both priority 3

Quinn Roux

Priority 1

Ben Marshall

Unsure (concussed)

James Cannon

Yet to be seen

Nepia Fox-Matamua

Priority 2

John Muldoon

Priority 2 (I will be killed for that)

Eoin McKeon

Priority 2

Eoghan Masterson

To be seen starting December

Rory Moloney

Priority 3

John Cooney

Priority 2

Jack Carty

Priority 1

Shane O'Leary

Priority 2

Rory Parata

Priority 2

Danie Poolman

Priority 3

Josh Rowland
AND Darragh Leader

Yet to be seen this season

Stacey Ili

Priority 2 (Fionn Carr-like)

NiallBoo

connachta wrote: »

Tom McCartney

Priority 1

hmmm...
He's quietly becoming Irish-qualified.

connachta

NiallBoo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Tom McCartney

Priority 1

hmmm...
He's quietly becoming Irish-qualified.

Yeah, but contract expiring, just the same as Bundee

mysticmick

connachta wrote: »

Very good news, but lots of work to be done in the office before June, 26 players, among them 15 are very important

Denis Buckley

ABSOLUTE priority

Shane Delahunt

Priority 1

Tom McCartney

Priority 1

Dave Heffernan

Priority 1

Conor Carey

Priority 1 (so few IQ TH)

JP Cooney

Priority 2

Ronan Loughney

Priority 3

Dominic Robertson-McCoy
AND Ivan Soroka

Both not really seen yet

Lewis Stevenson
AND Danny Qualter

Both priority 3

Quinn Roux

Priority 1

Ben Marshall

Unsure (concussed)

James Cannon

Yet to be seen

Nepia Fox-Matamua

Priority 2

John Muldoon

Priority 2 (I will be killed for that)

Eoin McKeon

Priority 2

Eoghan Masterson

To be seen starting December

Rory Moloney

Priority 3

John Cooney

Priority 2

Jack Carty

Priority 1

Shane O'Leary

Priority 2

Rory Parata

Priority 2

Danie Poolman

Priority 3

Josh Rowland
AND Darragh Leader

Yet to be seen this season

Stacey Ili

Priority 2 (Fionn Carr-like)

Masterson, Buckley, Tom & McKeon are top priorities.
Hate to say it but has John run his race?

KBurke85

mysticmick wrote: »

Masterson, Buckley, Tom & McKeon are top priorities.
Hate to say it but has John run his race?

I havent noticed much of a drop of in John's perfomances so far this season and he's one of the few players to play most if not all of the games so far.

I certainly think that if he wants to play on he is certainly worth giving a contract for at least another year.

ki

Someone needs to come and take over Johns leadership role before he becomes a priority 2!.

Bazzo

Muldoon's standards haven't dropped at all, there's no reason why we wouldn't want to give him a new contract if he's happy to stay. He's really grown in to the captain's role too, has much less of a propensity for losing it with refs

evil_seed

Raisins wrote: »

Give me a break, I suppose if they built a new stadium out of thin air tomorrow morning you'd say no to any celebration. Aren't we the champions we should expect to have a 30,000 seater stadium.

Either you're on a wind up or you have absolutely no idea how far Connacht are from their competitors, champions or not.

It's absolutely brilliant news that they have renewed their contracts. Any betting person who knew anything about rugby would see there was a massive chance they would move on, Aki in particular. If you're sketchy on rugby, take vardy renewing with Leicester instead of joining Arsenal and then multiply it by 10.

I'm well aware of our history and where we've come from. I've been through it all.
I'm just stating my opinion on what should be expected as champions.

connachta

mysticmick wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Very good news, but lots of work to be done in the office before June, 26 players, among them 15 are very important

Denis Buckley

ABSOLUTE priority

Shane Delahunt

Priority 1

Tom McCartney

Priority 1

Dave Heffernan

Priority 1

Conor Carey

Priority 1 (so few IQ TH)

JP Cooney

Priority 2

Ronan Loughney

Priority 3

Dominic Robertson-McCoy
AND Ivan Soroka

Both not really seen yet

Lewis Stevenson
AND Danny Qualter

Both priority 3

Quinn Roux

Priority 1

Ben Marshall

Unsure (concussed)

James Cannon

Yet to be seen

Nepia Fox-Matamua

Priority 2

John Muldoon

Priority 2 (I will be killed for that)

Eoin McKeon

Priority 2

Eoghan Masterson

To be seen starting December

Rory Moloney

Priority 3

John Cooney

Priority 2

Jack Carty

Priority 1

Shane O'Leary

Priority 2

Rory Parata

Priority 2

Danie Poolman

Priority 3

Josh Rowland
AND Darragh Leader

Yet to be seen this season

Stacey Ili

Priority 2 (Fionn Carr-like)

Masterson, Buckley, Tom & McKeon are top priorities.
Hate to say it but has John run his race?

Muldoon should have one last year (at least to grab a memorable 300th cap ) Will be 35th and a half in June 2018, this is the limit you can expect him to keep his level.
Priority 2 simply because IMO Dawai, Masterson, McKeon, SOB all tend to become more crucial starting next season

mysticmick

connachta wrote: »

mysticmick wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Very good news, but lots of work to be done in the office before June, 26 players, among them 15 are very important

Denis Buckley

ABSOLUTE priority

Shane Delahunt

Priority 1

Tom McCartney

Priority 1

Dave Heffernan

Priority 1

Conor Carey

Priority 1 (so few IQ TH)

JP Cooney

Priority 2

Ronan Loughney

Priority 3

Dominic Robertson-McCoy
AND Ivan Soroka

Both not really seen yet

Lewis Stevenson
AND Danny Qualter

Both priority 3

Quinn Roux

Priority 1

Ben Marshall

Unsure (concussed)

James Cannon

Yet to be seen

Nepia Fox-Matamua

Priority 2

John Muldoon

Priority 2 (I will be killed for that)

Eoin McKeon

Priority 2

Eoghan Masterson

To be seen starting December

Rory Moloney

Priority 3

John Cooney

Priority 2

Jack Carty

Priority 1

Shane O'Leary

Priority 2

Rory Parata

Priority 2

Danie Poolman

Priority 3

Josh Rowland
AND Darragh Leader

Yet to be seen this season

Stacey Ili

Priority 2 (Fionn Carr-like)

Masterson, Buckley, Tom & McKeon are top priorities.
Hate to say it but has John run his race?

Muldoon should have one last year (at least to grab a memorable 300th cap ) Will be 35th and a half in June 2018, this is the limit you can expect him to keep his level.
Priority 2 simply because IMO Dawai, Masterson, McKeon, SOB all tend to become more crucial starting next season

I think SOB II's last two performances (one off the bench) were magnificent and he really could push on for a starting place sooner rather then later, that in mind and if Masterson regains the form of last year pre-injury, where is the place for Muldoon? Think he has another year in him but maybe not as a starter depending on how the others pan out.

Mr Tickle

Muldoon can probably fall into category 2 just because there's not going to be a competition for him. If he feels like he's up to it and his performances back it up he'll play on.

At this stage he probably wouldn't move anyway if he got an offer.

blackhound

There's no way we can afford to not have Muldoon in the squad, even if his performances do start to drop off (which they absolutely have not been doing so far) his experience is vital. Beyond that our squad is not so large that we can just afford to thin it down even further, ok SOB is coming back into the team in superb form but one injury in the back row we are down to the bare bones until December.
If Muldoon wants to keep going we give hive another contract, I'm sure he will naturally not command as high a pay check as he gets older and while some of the younger players coming through look like great prospects a mixture of experience in the squad is absolutely necessary.

ClanofLams

Agree that Muldoon needs to be kept. He's still one of the first names on the team sheet and as others have said, his experience is huge, there's only a few guys in the squad who remember the days of regular hammerings and having come from that place, he's likely one of the strongest voices for pushing standards to ensure Connacht don't return there.

Even were his performances to drop, they would have to fall off a cliff for him not to be a valuable squad option. At the moment they haven't, let's worry about it when they do. In the meantime, sign him up for another year.

connachta

ClanofLams wrote: »

Agree that Muldoon needs to be kept. He's still one of the first names on the team sheet and as others have said, his experience is huge, there's only a few guys in the squad who remember the days of regular hammerings and having come from that place, he's likely one of the strongest voices for pushing standards to ensure Connacht don't return there.

Even were his performances to drop, they would have to fall off a cliff for him not to be a valuable squad option. At the moment they haven't, let's worry about it when they do. In the meantime, sign him up for another year.

priority 2 doesn't mean I don't want to sign him. I've said I'd like him one last year.
Just think he's behind some like McCartney, Buckley, Roux .. if we run out of money (which is not that unlikely...)

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

priority 2 doesn't mean I don't want to sign him. I've said I'd like him one last year.
Just think he's behind some like McCartney, Buckley, Roux .. if we run out of money (which is not that unlikely...)

I've always liked the way connachta jumps between extremes of optimism and pessimism!

I have to say you're the most optimistically pessimistic tribal globalist to ever supportively criticise Connacht.

evil_seed

The Zebre player who bit Quin Roux got a 9 week ban. To say he got off lightly is an understatement. It's a complete joke

b.gud

evil_seed wrote: »

The Zebre player who bit Quin Roux got a 9 week ban. To say he got off lightly is an understatement. It's a complete joke

His ban was actually 18 weeks, but it got reduced to 9 weeks because of admission of guilt, good behaviour blah blah blah

Robbo

b.gud wrote: »

His ban was actually 18 weeks, but it got reduced to 9 weeks because of admission of guilt, good behaviour blah blah blah

Delicious flavour was also considered to be a mitigating factor.

Zzippy

Robbo wrote: »

Delicious flavour was also considered to be a mitigating factor.

He heard so many stories about South African biltong he had to try some for himself?

Redo91

b.gud wrote: »

His ban was actually 18 weeks, but it got reduced to 9 weeks because of admission of guilt, good behaviour blah blah blah

Good behaviour?! Any player who bits another deserves to have the book thrown at him. He could have discovered the cure to AIDS for all I care. There shouldn't be any mitigating circumstances with an offence like this.

thomond2006

Redo91 wrote: »

Good behaviour?! Any player who bits another deserves to have the book thrown at him. He could have discovered the cure to AIDS for all I care. There shouldn't be any mitigating circumstances with an offence like this.

There always is. See Calum Clark.

It's a joke, but at least it's a consistent joke!

Redo91

thomond2006 wrote: »

There always is. See Calum Clark.

It's a joke, but at least it's a consistent joke!

Ya I remember that. He should have been locked up. For thugs like him rugby is just an excuse to get away with things they can't on the street.

former total

What the Zebre guy did isn't in the same league as Calum Clark at all, think we can all agree that.

Biting is very unsavoury but in terms of the likelihood of causing serious injury, it's a lot lower than gouging, stamping or even dangerous tackles.

Chris Ashton got 13 weeks for biting, without pleading guilty and with a terrible disciplinary record.

I think 9 weeks is fairly lenient but not outrageously so.

Raisins

Redo91 wrote: »

Good behaviour?! Any player who bits another deserves to have the book thrown at him. He could have discovered the cure to AIDS for all I care. There shouldn't be any mitigating circumstances with an offence like this.

That's the whole point in giving consistent sentences for offences, you have to apply the same principles to every offence. If you don't then a guy who doesn't accept the charge, drags the injured player through the whole process of a disciplinary hearing (potentially involving travel to London etc) and has bitten players previously gets exactly the same ban. That would be the real joke.

If you have a guy with a clean record who says it's a moment of madness and accepts the charge straight away and apologies he doesn't deserve the same sentence as a repeat offender. It's not a complicated concept.

b.gud

Boshoff in the Sportsground

b.gud

NiallBoo

evil_seed wrote: »

The Zebre player who bit Quin Roux got a 9 week ban. To say he got off lightly is an understatement. It's a complete joke

9 weeks is very light for biting a player.

I'd feel ashamed if I bit into a kebab like that.

irishbucsfan

Dan McFarland will be coaching Scotland when Townsend takes over.

Congrats, great to see him do well after being a great servant to Connacht.

b.gud

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Dan McFarland will be coaching Scotland when Townsend takes over.

Congrats, great to see him do well after being a great servant to Connacht.

Do you mean Glasgow, or is he going to be an assistant coach at Scotland?

Edit: He'll be an assistant coach at Scotland, story here

Very happy for MacFarland

NiallBoo

former total wrote: »

What the Zebre guy did isn't in the same league as Calum Clark at all, think we can all agree that.

Biting is very unsavoury but in terms of the likelihood of causing serious injury, it's a lot lower than gouging, stamping or even dangerous tackles.

It's pretty bad. Mouths are filthy.
A good bite and you're guaranteed a nasty infection, that's assuming the biter isn't carrying anything interesting like hepatitis.

Roux will have spent the week on a meaty dose of preventative antibiotics, enough to make a difference to performance.

irishbucsfan

NiallBoo wrote: »

It's pretty bad. Mouths are filthy.
A good bite and you're guaranteed a nasty infection, that's assuming the biter isn't carrying anything interesting like hepatitis.

Roux will have spent the week on a meaty dose of preventative antibiotics, enough to make a difference to performance.

Ah cmon, Calum Clark intentionally hyperextended another player's elbow and broke his arm... Went behind a guys back like a little rat. It was a horrific act and the guy should have been banned for much much longer than he was.

NiallBoo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah cmon, Calum Clark intentionally hyperextended another player's elbow and broke his arm... Went behind a guys back like a little rat. It was a horrific act and the guy should have been banned for much much longer than he was.

Not trying to justify Clark.

Just pointing out that a bite can have very serious consequences.

Bridge93

NiallBoo wrote: »

It's pretty bad. Mouths are filthy.
A good bite and you're guaranteed a nasty infection, that's assuming the biter isn't carrying anything interesting like hepatitis.

Roux will have spent the week on a meaty dose of preventative antibiotics, enough to make a difference to performance.

This is a bit hyperbolic. He won't have spent the whole week on antibiotics. I've had the pleasure of being bitten on the finger in a game. While not pleasant, unless they pierce the skin there's no real problem and even then it's unlikely anything would come if it unless the biter is carrying an infection. If your man was infected there would be a record of it and Connacht made fully aware immediately. It's unlikely/impossible a pro sportsman would have a disease of that nature
Didn't Roux play the rest of the game? Not exactly the actions of somebody at risk of infection. As would playing this weekend

I would like to see heavy sanctions for it but it seems in line with the precedent.

Redo91

Raisins wrote: »

That's the whole point in giving consistent sentences for offences, you have to apply the same principles to every offence. If you don't then a guy who doesn't accept the charge, drags the injured player through the whole process of a disciplinary hearing (potentially involving travel to London etc) and has bitten players previously gets exactly the same ban. That would be the real joke.

If you have a guy with a clean record who says it's a moment of madness and accepts the charge straight away and apologies he doesn't deserve the same sentence as a repeat offender. It's not a complicated concept.

I understand the concept. I just don't agree with it. I know perfectly sane players in the past have done stupid things in a "moment of madness". By all means if a player punches another in the heat of the moment that is understandable. However you can have no excuse for bitting another person. It's just disgusting behaviour. A players previous good behaviour should be thrown out the window in these circumstances because if they are capable of biting then how can they say "oh but I'm a nice guy usually"? If you bite a player your a dirty c**t of the highest order.

And of course repeat offenders should be dealt with more strictly. If a guy is guilty of eye gouging, biting, or other serious misconduct previously then fair enough. My point is that once someone has bitten another, just because they have a clean record previously shouldn't result in a reduction of the punishment. A minimum threshold far above 9 weeks should be set without the option of reducing it.

wp_rathead

Murray Kinsella interviewing Pat Lam about his past

Raisins

Redo91 wrote: »

I understand the concept. I just don't agree with it. I know perfectly sane players in the past have done stupid things in a "moment of madness". By all means if a player punches another in the heat of the moment that is understandable. However you can have no excuse for bitting another person. It's just disgusting behaviour. A players previous good behaviour should be thrown out the window in these circumstances because if they are capable of biting then how can they say "oh but I'm a nice guy usually"? If you bite a player your a dirty c**t of the highest order.

And of course repeat offenders should be dealt with more strictly. If a guy is guilty of eye gouging, biting, or other serious misconduct previously then fair enough. My point is that once someone has bitten another, just because they have a clean record previously shouldn't result in a reduction of the punishment. A minimum threshold far above 9 weeks should be set without the option of reducing it.

"Far above" 9 weeks? Are you serious? What's that like 13/15 weeks?

These plans don't work in practice. There's a reason why the principles apply to all offences.

So in summary, your ideal scenario:

13 weeks, mandatory minimum ban, the circumstances of the offence and / or previous offences are definitely relevant, but only if they increase the ban even further. Nobody would ever accept guilt, because they'd never get any credit for it, so they'd fight every single charge in that category. A bitten player would be travelling to London to go through a hearing, at massive imconvenience, just to get a player an even longer ban, even if, for example, he had already accepted an apology. Also, a pre-meditated punch that breaks a players eye socket, would in principle, be open to reduction.

testtech05

15 Tiernan O’Halloran (107)
14 Niyi Adeolokun (39)
13 Peter Robb (20)
12 Craig Ronaldson (54)
11 Cian Kelleher (6)
10 Jack Carty (61)
9 Kieran Marmion (108)

1 JP Cooney (34)
2 Dave Heffernan (64)
3 Conor Carey (4)
4 Quinn Roux (36)
5 Andrew Browne (147)
6 Sean O’Brien (22)
7 Jake Heenan (39)
8 John Muldoon (captain) (282)

Replacements:

16 Shane Delahunt (20)
17 Dominic Robertson-McCoy (1)
18 Finlay Bealham (64)
19 James Cannon (0)
20 Eoin McKeon (92)
21 Caolin Blade (27)
22 Bundee Aki (47)
23 Stacey Ili (3)

Injured/Unavailable: Tom McCartney, Denis Buckley, Ronan Loughney, Ivan Soroka, Conan O’Donnell, Saba Meunargia, Ultan Dillane, Ben Marshall, Nepia Fox-Matamua, Eoghan Masterson, John Cooney, Matt Healy, Josh Rowland, Darragh Leader, Ciaran Gaffney.

Bundee on the bench again this weekend. Pretty strong squad besides interested to see cannon when he gets on too....

Mr Tickle

testtech05 wrote: »

15 Tiernan O’Halloran (107)
14 Niyi Adeolokun (39)
13 Peter Robb (20)
12 Craig Ronaldson (54)
11 Cian Kelleher (6)
10 Jack Carty (61)
9 Kieran Marmion (108)

1 JP Cooney (34)
2 Dave Heffernan (64)
3 Conor Carey (4)
4 Quinn Roux (36)
5 Andrew Browne (147)
6 Sean O’Brien (22)
7 Jake Heenan (39)
8 John Muldoon (captain) (282)

Replacements:

16 Shane Delahunt (20)
17 Dominic Robertson-McCoy (1)
18 Finlay Bealham (64)
19 James Cannon (0)
20 Eoin McKeon (92)
21 Caolin Blade (27)
22 Bundee Aki (47)
23 Stacey Ili (3)

Injured/Unavailable: Tom McCartney, Denis Buckley, Ronan Loughney, Ivan Soroka, Conan O’Donnell, Saba Meunargia, Ultan Dillane, Ben Marshall, Nepia Fox-Matamua, Eoghan Masterson, John Cooney, Matt Healy, Josh Rowland, Darragh Leader, Ciaran Gaffney.

Bundee on the bench again this weekend. Pretty strong squad besides interested to see cannon when he gets on too....

Bundee not starting is... noteworthy...

Dog Botherer

Bundee rested against a weakened Leinster backline? Ronaldson/Robb is still a fairly decent unit, as good as many first choice 12/13's in the Pro12.

Mr Tickle

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Bundee rested against a weakened Leinster backline? Ronaldson/Robb is still a fairly decent unit, as good as many first choice 12/13's in the Pro12.

I think they'll probably still do it. Given that it's in the rds though i'd have him starting.

Bazzo

Does anyone know what the story with Cooney is? Hasn't he been in modified training for about a month now?

Zzippy

Think Bundee may be carrying a knock, going on last week when he was named on the bench and then pulled out for Poolman IIRC.

wp_rathead

Bazzo wrote: »

Does anyone know what the story with Cooney is? Hasn't he been in modified training for about a month now?

after Autumn internationals I believe

Bazzo

Zzippy wrote: »

Think Bundee may be carrying a knock, going on last week when he was named on the bench and then pulled out for Poolman IIRC.

I think Bundee was still on the bench but didn't play, Robertson McCoy was withdrawn and since there was no additional prop we ended up with a 4-4 split. When Bealham came off JP Cooney came back on for him.

Number 137

Bazzo wrote: »

I think Bundee was still on the bench but didn't play, Robertson McCoy was withdrawn and since there was no additional prop we ended up with a 4-4 split. When Bealham came off JP Cooney came back on for him.

A 4-4 split? I'm pretty sure if you have only two front row replacements, you lose a sub. So 7 on the bench as opposed to 8?

Redo91

Raisins wrote: »

"Far above" 9 weeks? Are you serious? What's that like 13/15 weeks?

These plans don't work in practice. There's a reason why the principles apply to all offences.

So in summary, your ideal scenario:

13 weeks, mandatory minimum ban, the circumstances of the offence and / or previous offences are definitely relevant, but only if they increase the ban even further. Nobody would ever accept guilt, because they'd never get any credit for it, so they'd fight every single charge in that category. A bitten player would be travelling to London to go through a hearing, at massive imconvenience, just to get a player an even longer ban, even if, for example, he had already accepted an apology. Also, a pre-meditated punch that breaks a players eye socket, would in principle, be open to reduction.

Admit guilt? How could he deny it? Say it was an "accident"? That he was yawning and Roux stuck his arm in his mouth? Thanks to TMO's very little is missed on the pitch. If a guy bites someone it will be picked up. An admission of guilt isn't necessary. The video evidence is enough.

Rugby is a physical game. Tempers flare and there's always a possibility that punches will be thrown. I'd wager most players in the game for a couple of years will have been hit once or twice. While obviously against the rules it's almost part of the game. However I doubt many players will have been bitten before.

For me the seriousness of the offence is more relevant than the damage that results from it. I mean look at eye gouging for example. I've seen hefty bans handed out where a guy has just put his fingers in the eye area but causes little or no damage.

While I'm not saying you don't think biting isn't a serious offence clearly it appals me more than you. I consider it to be something animals do. Therefore where a person does it they should be dealt with severely.

I understand your point of view but I just don't agree with it. Same as you don't agree with mine which is fair enough.

MarinersBlues

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Bundee not starting is... noteworthy...

Same reason he was benched last week - he's being punished for signing a contract.

FACECUTTR

It's all a ploy to trick Leinster into thinking they won't have to face the Bundee machine for a full 80. He will start.

connachta

Put aside Aki case, I hardly can be happier with the team. Heffernan back, Cannon ready, Bealham and Marmion allowed to play, no backup 10 as I suggested (Craig can do the job), to have both Bundee and Ili in the list

Bazzo

Number 137 wrote: »

A 4-4 split? I'm pretty sure if you have only two front row replacements, you lose a sub. So 7 on the bench as opposed to 8?

Oh right fair enough, I knew the front row rules for subs are ****y but no idea on specifics. Bundee travelled AFAIK anyway.