Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

Buer

Nift wrote: »

He would have definitely been considered.

He'd have been interviewed. I'd be shocked if he was offered the position though.

The IRFU would either look for a top name with previous international experience or possibly promote from within their own coaching set up. Kiss hasn't gone well but would be in the mix given he was head coach on an interim basis already. Easterby would be a contender if he wanted it. He has done an excellent job and has head coaching experience too.

Lam simply hasn't been around or delivered for long enough to be in the mix. If he followed up last season with another big season, then he'd be a real contender.

maoriincork

MarinersBlues wrote: »

That is VERY disappointing. He would surely have been the lead contender for next Irish Boss.
How is he going to motivate players for the rest if the season when they can see he has left for money rather than all the values he has been getting them to buy into.

You can be assured it's not for the money. I would say Pat sees that as a bigger challenge than Connacht. Bristol to the top tier and then onto Champions cup now that is a challenge.
Connacht have all the basics done and now it's time to move to the next level with a like minded coach and a new approach it can only be good for us.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

He'd have been interviewed. I'd be shocked if he was offered the position though.

The IRFU would either look for a top name with previous international experience or possibly promote from within their own coaching set up. Kiss hasn't gone well but would be in the mix given he was head coach on an interim basis already. Easterby would be a contender if he wanted it. He has done an excellent job and has head coaching experience too.

Lam simply hasn't been around or delivered for long enough to be in the mix. If he followed up last season with another big season, then he'd be a real contender.

Well to be fair Pat Lam has been coaching much longer than Simon Easterby and he's got just as much international experience as Schmidt did!

phog

Nift wrote: »

Why Bristol though? It would have had to be unbelievable money. A crap squad and likely in the Championship. That's what is so disappointing, Lam could have coached a top club. Connacht's season will be derailed now. Jackman, Carolan not good enough to coach Connacht. And I swear if Hogan or Thornley mention Eddie O'Sullivan's name I will go nuts.

The owner is one of the richest owners of a club in England, if Bristol do go down then he has little or no pressure and he'll surely be on a wad more money than what he'd earn here. Getting them up to the Premiership again would be a feather in his cap. Very little to lose and a lot to gain.

maoriincork

errlloyd wrote: »

I real twist in all this would be Stuart Lancaster going to Connacht, and I think it would be great. Nurturing and empowering young teams is his forté, although Connacht have matured. I am not sure if he can play the politics game, but sure Lam was no politician either.

No not Lancaster. Don't need to go back to that old style English game by winning on penalties. No thanks.

its_phil

Buer wrote: »

He'd have been interviewed. I'd be shocked if he was offered the position though.

The IRFU would either look for a top name with previous international experience or possibly promote from within their own coaching set up. Kiss hasn't gone well but would be in the mix given he was head coach on an interim basis already. Easterby would be a contender if he wanted it. He has done an excellent job and has head coaching experience too.

Lam simply hasn't been around or delivered for long enough to be in the mix. If he followed up last season with another big season, then he'd be a real contender.

A lot of holes in this logic, particularly Kiss and Lam has a lot more success than Easterby at head coach, not to take away from his great work with the Irish forwards.

Lads, just to say. I'm genuinely gutted for you. I have huge respect for Lam and what he has done for Connacht.

That said.

There is a good squad there that has just won a pro12. I would hope that the IRFU pull out all the stops to help them sign someone that can come in and keep things moving.

Buer

its_phil wrote: »

A lot of holes in this logic, particularly Kiss and Lam has a lot more success than Easterby at head coach, not to take away from his great work with the Irish forwards.

This has been done to death but Lam's record as a head coach isn't really too great. It's ok with one great season and several turkeys along with solid NPC showings with Auckland which is pretty much taken for granted.

Easterby has an advantage simply due to his current role. I'd say an external candidate with test experience would be most likely though. Lam wouldn't work at test level anyway. He'd never get the exposure to the players he would require.

I'd hate to see Kiss in the mix but he would enter the conversation, I'd imagine, and was definitely being groomed for the job.

If Lam had another big year this season, he'd be right in the conversation but not at this point, realistically.

maoriincork

Buer wrote: »

He'd have been interviewed. I'd be shocked if he was offered the position though.

The IRFU would either look for a top name with previous international experience or possibly promote from within their own coaching set up. Kiss hasn't gone well but would be in the mix given he was head coach on an interim basis already. Easterby would be a contender if he wanted it. He has done an excellent job and has head coaching experience too.

Lam simply hasn't been around or delivered for long enough to be in the mix. If he followed up last season with another big season, then he'd be a real contender.

Pat has international experience. He coached Samoa.

errlloyd

maoriincork wrote: »

No not Lancaster. Don't need to go back to that old style English game by winning on penalties. No thanks.

This is the same Lancaster that lost his job because England didn't kick a penalty for goal?

b.gud

Buer wrote: »

This has been done to death but Lam's record as a head coach isn't really too great. It's ok with one great season and several turkeys.

Easterby has an advantage simply due to his current role. I'd say an external candidate with test experience would be most likely though. Lam wouldn't work at test level anyway. He'd never get the exposure to the players he would require.

I'd hate to see Kiss in the mix but he would enter the conversation, I'd imagine, and was definitely being groomed for the job.

Not suggesting you're wrong here but couldn't the same be said about Joe when it comes to the bolded bit?

Obviously he has proved that he is more than capably but with everything we here about Joes style and meticulous nature access to players seems like something that is key for him

Buer

maoriincork wrote: »

Pat has international experience. He coached Samoa.

On a short term basis and only one a consultancy basis, I recall. Sort of like Eddie Jones with SA in 2007.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Lads, just to say. I'm genuinely gutted for you. I have huge respect for Lam and what he has done for Connacht.

That said.

There is a good squad there that has just won a pro12. I would hope that the IRFU pull out all the stops to help them sign someone that can come in and keep things moving.

Yea I agree, the IRFU need to get the chequebook out if that's required.

swiwi_

Bazzo wrote: »

Sounds like journos throwing names at a wall and hoping one sticks TBH. Heyneke Meyer was "a cert" to join last month. Lam also seems to be invariably linked with a couple different clubs every year because there's no way he could be happy coaching Connacht, right?!

Ouch.

Rightwing

kilns wrote: »

To be honest when Lam went to Connacht he had nothing to lose and everything to gain. He has enhanced his reputation after it was shredded in NZ, now he is moving on for the money, simple as, thats life really. To him Connacht was a stepping stone.

I agree, but knew he would go, was surprised it didn't come in the summer.

Thread title should be changed.

Buer

b.gud wrote: »

Not suggesting you're wrong here but couldn't the same be said about Joe when it comes to the bolded bit?

Obviously he has proved that he is more than capably but with everything we here about Joes style and meticulous nature access to players seems like something that is key for him

Fair point but I would say that Schmidt's style is far more conservative in reality than Lam's wholesale overhaul of Connacht's approach. It's quite tight and regimented. Go off and learn your role, execute the requirements and basics. I suppose we can see that in terms of Ireland's back play at times and the lack of variation.

I would also imagine it's a lot easier for Schmidt given the bulk of the Irish 23 were already very familiar with what he was looking for. Which is just a fortunate circumstance, really.

Bazzo

awec wrote: »

I know just the men for Connacht.






Sign them. Please.

Jesus awec, what have we ever done to you?

swiwi_

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Bundee unhappy on twitter. Understandable - may feel he was signed up on a new contract under false pretences.

Ah Bundee. Unhappy about Pam moving to greener pastures. Here's a mirror Bundee.

It's bad news for Connacht but he has left a great legacy for you guys.

awec

Bazzo wrote: »

Jesus awec, what have we ever done to you?

I'm desperate Bazzo. Desperate.

Sangre

Was really the right time for him to move, reputation restored and he was very unlikely to immediately replicate the success of last year. This year was his strongest bargaining position.

Big loss for Irish rugby.

Zzippy

awec wrote: »

I'm desperate Bazzo. Desperate.

Did I hear EOS saying "we" when commentating on Ulster a few weeks ago? He's been up a few times now this season, I even hear he was spotted in an estate agents in Bangor...

freyners

Lads judging by marmions response and the amount of the squad liking and retweeting it i wouldnt be overly shocked if he was trolling or someone got their hands in his phone again.

Also maybe not the best week for it but pat is doing us a favour announcing so early. Plenty of time to line up and interview replacements a la elwood before him.

A legend. Will be sorely missed. Its pro sport however so we will move on.

Bazzo

swiwi_ wrote: »

Ouch.

Low blow there swiwi. To be fair nothing I said was false, we spent half of last season listening to Lam being linked to clubs and then we were hearing Meyer was to come in and coach Bristol, then it was going to be Lancaster and finally Lam. Bit of boy who cried wolf reaction.

Teferi

Rightwing wrote: »

Thread title should be changed.

Dealing with the real issues here.

former total

swiwi_ wrote: »

Ah Bundee. Unhappy about Pam moving to greener pastures. Here's a mirror Bundee.
.

Yeah, he's throwing a lot of stones for a man in a glass house.

I guess the theory is that if Lam's contract until 2018 was used as a bargaining chip on Aki's contract talks, then he has reason to be aggrieved, and I'd agree with that.

However, he still has to work with Lam until May, taking to Twitter to vent is stupid in the extreme.

freyners

freyners wrote: »

Lads judging by marmions response and the amount of the squad liking and retweeting it i wouldnt be overly shocked if he was trolling or someone got their hands in his phone again.

Also maybe not the best week for it but pat is doing us a favour announcing so early. Plenty of time to line up and interview replacements a la elwood before him.

A legend. Will be sorely missed. Its pro sport however so we will move on.

I read nothing major into Bundee's tweet.
Of course he's annoyed. I dont blame him. We're all annoyed too. He's just releasing on social media.

If he spent the day giving out, and claiming that promises have been broken, then I might be a little annoyed. He's not. He tweeted that he's pi**ed off. Fair enough.

I'm sure Pat will speak to all the players, and the team will move on.

porterbelly

The money he's going to be getting would turn anyones head. Just hope this doesn't derail our season and the lads who signed new contracts don't throw the toys out.
Ideally the appointment should come from within as we would like to continue to build on the style of play and not have someone rip up the script, so that points to Duffy or Carolan. But they have zero head coach experience which is a worry. 
Left field one for me would be Rob Penney. Huge point to prove in Ireland and would definitely embrace the playing style.

b.gud

porterbelly wrote: »

The money he's going to be getting would turn anyones head. Just hope this doesn't derail our season and the lads who signed new contracts don't throw the toys out.
Ideally the appointment should come from within as we would like to continue to build on the style of play and not have someone rip up the script, so that points to Duffy or Carolan. But they have zero head coach experience which is a worry. 
Left field one for me would be Rob Penney. Huge point to prove in Ireland and would definitely embrace the playing style.

He would be a brilliant candidate and I would be delighted to see him but hard to see him leaving Japan as I'd imagine he's on a s***ton of money over there plus he might have some worries about how much he'd be valued in Irish rugby

Neil3030

So a team who can already play heads-up rugby, looking to take things to the next level?

Step forward:

b.gud

Paddy Power odds on the next coach



I would be quite happy if Dan decided to come back but he's due to join Gregor in the Scotland coaching team so not sure how easy it would be to tempt him back

Also has there been a head coach job anywhere in the past few years that Jake White wasn't listed amongst the top contenders

b.gud

Neil3030 wrote: »

So a team who can already play heads-up rugby, looking to take things to the next level?

Step forward:

Is there a maximum number of times I can report a post?

Redo91

former total wrote: »

Redo91 wrote: »

This! He could have had his pick of teams but chooses to go to a team that will probably be in the championship next season. This move is purely motivated by money. I wrongly thought he was better than that. Bundee has every right to be annoyed after probably turning down even more money to stay.

He's done a huge amount for this province but he's gone way down in my estimation after this! He was always going to leave eventually but going to Bristol is a huge mistake. He's so much better than that level.

Steady on now. You have absolutely no idea what is motivating him.

Maybe it's money, maybe it's the challenge of rebuilding a team from the ground up. Maybe he's cheesed off with the Irish system. Maybe he doesn't like Galway, maybe his family don't like Galway. Maybe he thinks he's brought Connacht as far as he can.

Let's at least hear the guy out before we sharpen the knives.

He's pretty much done that already at Connacht so I'd imagine he doesn't want to build another team up.

As for his family not liking Connacht Bristol is a kip by all accounts so can't be any better than Galway.

In all likelihood he has brought Connacht as far as he can. Although I thought he would at least honour his contact my main issue isn't with him leaving but where he is leaving us for. He could have had his pick of top teams in the northern and Southern Hemisphere and he leaves us for a championship team???

You don't need to be involved behind the scenes to realise that this move is motivated by one thing. $$$$$$$$$

ClanofLams

connachta wrote: »

No Dillane. Let's stop wih lineout/Muldowney role, Ultan is international, he knows Connacht system way better than Cannon, he's one of our very few ball carriers (against a physical Wasps team who won yesterday against Worcester because the latter had no one to cross their defensive line). HE HAS TO START

This is obviously very much a minor issue given today's news but lineout calling is a fairly difficult role, Lam said towards the end of last season that Dillane and Roux weren't able for it yet but Duffy was working on them. If they're still not ready then Cannon will start.

Love the shout of Rob Penney but not sure how realistic it is. Would have a lot of confidence in Carolan. Whoever takes over is doing so at a very difficult time. Big shoes to fill, hopefully the start of next seasons fixture list is a little easier than this year.

freyners

Carolan at 40/1 is well worth a euro. Knows the system inside out, knows the players who have a lot of time for him and ran for it last time

Buer

Redo91 wrote: »

He could have had his pick of top teams in the northern and Southern Hemisphere and he leaves us for a championship team???

He would struggle to get any Super Rugby job aside from the Jaguars or Sunwolves. The Pro12 win would barely get any acclaim in NZ.

He could have gotten a higher profile job in the northern hemisphere but I don't think any Super Rugby team in his homeland would look at him twice still.

blackdog1

I think jackman had to be top of the list unless a better foreign coach comes up. grenoble play the same style as connacht and he's a very smart coach used to operating on a small budget

Zzippy

former total wrote: »

Yeah, he's throwing a lot of stones for a man in a glass house.

I guess the theory is that if Lam's contract until 2018 was used as a bargaining chip on Aki's contract talks, then he has reason to be aggrieved, and I'd agree with that.

However, he still has to work with Lam until May, taking to Twitter to vent is stupid in the extreme.

Way to read a lot into two words! One tweet becomes a lot of stones... :rolleyes:

gucci

Redo91 wrote: »

He's pretty much done that already at Connacht so I'd imagine he doesn't want to build another team up.

As for his family not liking Connacht Bristol is a kip by all accounts so can't be any better than Galway.

In all likelihood he has brought Connacht as far as he can. Although I thought he would at least honour his contact my main issue isn't with him leaving but where he is leaving us for. He could have had his pick of top teams in the northern and Southern Hemisphere and he leaves us for a championship team???

You don't need to be involved behind the scenes to realise that this move is motivated by one thing. $$$$$$$$$

This is two years old, and obviously quite subjective. but I wouldnt say its too bad of a place to live. If anything, its actually a bit like Galway with its Marine heritage and university culture.

Like any major city, there are parts that I wouldn't walk the dog through, but equally if your on the type of salary and a member of an elite rugby club, there is a good chance you wont even know the names of those places as you wont ever get near them.

freyners

Buer wrote: »

He would struggle to get any Super Rugby job aside from the Jaguars or Sunwolves. The Pro12 win would barely get any acclaim in NZ.

He could have gotten a higher profile job in the northern hemisphere but I don't think any Super Rugby team in his homeland would look at him twice still.

To be honest I don't know how much the upper tier teams will be looking at him in the NH either. Any of them that does any due diligence would look and see the time it took Pat to bed in his style of play. It was and is a proven success but it took time. Connacht gave him time but would he get the same for the likes of Bath/Toulon etc. Bristol are desparate but considering how long the previous coach got he may struggle to stay in the seat if he experiences the same over their

If RTE announce an unspecified Ronan O'Gara documentary then it's guaranteed he's taking over for Lam.

"le petit Ronan" will follow the emotionally charged transition from backroom coach with Racing to head coach at Connacht and how Ronan battled being back on the same land mass as Johnny Sexton.

Neil3030

b.gud wrote: »

Is there a maximum number of times I can report a post?

In theory, no.

But there is no protocol to report posts for being painstakingly logical.

Buer

freyners wrote: »

Carolan at 40/1 is well worth a euro. Knows the system inside out, knows the players who have a lot of time for him and ran for it last time

I'm shocked his odds are that long. Will throw €5 on that.

b.gud

Bit of a random thought but if Jackman was to get the Connacht job, the Farrell to Munster deal hasn't been officially announced.

I wonder how much Chris enjoyed being coached by Jackman?











I know this is a pie in the sky dream but it's been a tough day so just let us have it for a while

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

I'm shocked his odds are that long. Will throw €5 on that.

Done!

Is it time to start a Nigel Carolan appreciation thread?

former total

Zzippy wrote: »

Way to read a lot into two words! One tweet becomes a lot of stones... :rolleyes:

Two words and an angry face emoticon. Seems no expression of emotion is complete without one these days.

It's hard to read anything else into that tweet tbh, other than that he's annoyed Lam is leaving.

Unless he means "pissed" in the Irish sense and not the American? Maybe he hit an early house before training and the emoticon actually symbolises the red blotchy face commonly brought on by low-grade alcoholic drinks?

Either way, Twitter is not the place.

Swan Curry

all jackman has done with grenoble is keep them from getting relegated and he's probably not going to manage that this year, is that really the kind of coach connacht need right now

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Done!

Is it time to start a Nigel Carolan appreciation thread?

Yes!

All hail!

Sangre

Swan Curry wrote: »

all jackman has done with grenoble is keep them from getting relegated and he's probably not going to manage that this year, is that really the kind of coach connacht need right now

Is Jackman any good? Some people I know involved in the senior Clontarf team at the time didn't speak particularly highly of him.

irishbucsfan

Sangre wrote: »

Is Jackman any good? Some people I know involved in the senior Clontarf team at the time didn't speak particularly highly of him.

The North Dublin Bernard Jackman Depreciation Society is one of the most vocal organisations in the city and are well represented on this forum. Seems to have done well for himself in France though.

Bridge93

Carolan odds collapsed in to 11/1. Well done all