Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

gally74

I think the game last night was the best we've played all season,\\ive been at most of the home games and the error count was well down last night,

this squad if left alone by the IRFU are really going to go places.

hylights last night for me were,

1. though locks did v well,
good to see JHRback,

Marshall looked V good before he went off,

Backrow 3 very good,

Cartys confidence looked up,

O donnell scrummaging inside the 22 with Brieve attaching Hon Sligo

connachta

What's impressive this season is that, even with our 3 locks injured (Roux, Browne and Marshall) we are still able to send a pairing of equivalent quality to Thomond Park (Dillane/Muldowney). Close to the bone (just SOB 2.0 and Naoupu as backups), but for now, there's no drop-off in the level of the starters game after game.

connachta

with Fox out we have several choices for openside flanker

1) McKeon, favourite for most of you, but disappointing as 7 last season, not quick enough
2) Masterson, my own choice, started his career here on a green jersey 2 years ago against Scarlets, would fit in well in a back-row with experienced Naoupu (or McKeon)/Muldoon pairing at 8/6
3) James Connolly, not that young, 23 in April, played 7 in Siberia, why not
4) Rush Heenan back, after all he was expected to be back in October... But we all know what happened when the staff did this last season
5) Heffernan, clear outsider, but covered here yesterday, and is an ex-backrow
6) Rory Moloney, rookie at professional level, but international U20

Bazzo

connachta wrote: »

with Fox out we have several choices for openside flanker

1) McKeon, favourite for most of you, but disappointing as 7 last season, not quick enough
2) Masterson, my own choice, started his career here on a green jersey 2 years ago against Scarlets, would fit in well in a back-row with experienced Naoupu (or McKeon)/Muldoon pairing at 8/6
3) James Connolly, not that young, 23 in April, played 7 in Siberia, why not
4) Rush Heenan back, after all he was expected to be back in October... But we all know what happened when the staff did this last season
5) Heffernan, clear outsider, but covered here yesterday, and is an ex-backrow
6) Rory Moloney, rookie at professional level, but international U20

Do most people favour McKeon at 7 over Masterson? Personally I'd agree with you that Masterson is the better 7, I think 8 is McKeon's strongest position by far and while it is probably Masterson's too, he seems versatile enough to play well anywhere in the back row.

6: Muldoon
7: Masterson
8: McKeon

For me.

Stan27

connachta wrote: »

with Fox out we have several choices for openside flanker

1) McKeon, favourite for most of you, but disappointing as 7 last season, not quick enough
2) Masterson, my own choice, started his career here on a green jersey 2 years ago against Scarlets, would fit in well in a back-row with experienced Naoupu (or McKeon)/Muldoon pairing at 8/6
3) James Connolly, not that young, 23 in April, played 7 in Siberia, why not
4) Rush Heenan back, after all he was expected to be back in October... But we all know what happened when the staff did this last season
5) Heffernan, clear outsider, but covered here yesterday, and is an ex-backrow
6) Rory Moloney, rookie at professional level, but international U20

I'd put Masterson in. Though long term is he a 6/7/8. ?
Also I haven't seen any matches in the last 2 weeks how is carthy playing. Is pat's confidence in playing him starting to pay off ?

connachta

Bazzo wrote: »

Do most people favour McKeon at 7 over Masterson? Personally I'd agree with you that Masterson is the better 7, I think 8 is McKeon's strongest position by far and while it is probably Masterson's too, he seems versatile enough to play well anywhere in the back row.

6: Muldoon
7: Masterson
8: McKeon

For me.

And Naoupu for 20? or Connolly?

Bazzo

connachta wrote: »

And Naoupu for 20? or Connolly?

It's a tough one. I'd probably give it to Naoupu. Connolly has looked promising but we know that George is capable. I'm all for getting younger lads involved but this is a huge game for us and I think in this case the conservative choice is best.

wp_rathead

Bazzo wrote: »

Do most people favour McKeon at 7 over Masterson? Personally I'd agree with you that Masterson is the better 7, I think 8 is McKeon's strongest position by far and while it is probably Masterson's too, he seems versatile enough to play well anywhere in the back row.

6: Muldoon
7: Masterson
8: McKeon

For me.

It's much of a muchness, I just remember McKeon played alot of 7 last season and didn't look out of place.
I also prefer Masterson at 8 on our scrums.
Wouldn't have an issue with Masterson 7 though..

would it be worth exploring James Connolly at 7?

Stan27 wrote: »

I'd put Masterson in. Though long term is he a 6/7/8. ?
Also I haven't seen any matches in the last 2 weeks how is carthy playing. Is pat's confidence in playing him starting to pay off ?

Masterson natural position is an 8 for me- that said he could be great replacement for Muldoon at 6 in few years

Carty has been playing brilliant this season imo - unfortunately his place kicking can still be off but his tactical kicking has improved and his distribution deserves special mention. Healy got alot of praise for TOH's try vs Edinburgh but Carty's inside pass in that set play was thing of beauty

connachta

wp_rathead wrote: »

would it be worth exploring James Connolly at 7?

Yes it's my 3rd choice, 3 posts up in this topic..
Watching the Siberian game again, and can't wait to see Muldowney/Dillane pairing once more. Especially the last one, such a beast, such a good lineout catcher

wp_rathead

actually didn't McKeon go off injured as well?
Might have to start Connolly at 7 or George 8 and Masterson 7..

connachta

wp_rathead wrote: »

actually didn't McKeon go off injured as well?
Might have to start Connolly at 7 or George 8 and Masterson 7..

2 n°7 ????:D

No, with Muldoon 6, you can have Masterson 7 Naoupu 8
But yes, if McKeon is unavailable, you should have Connolly on the bench at least

its_phil

former total wrote: »

The surest way to guarantee your team a spanking is to make comments like this.

Munster's second row is about ten orders of magnitude better than Connacht's.
Half back?!
Assuming the wings are Zebo and Earls, not much debate there either, regardless of who Connacht pick.

Munster will be heavy favourites.

Ah yes because teams do pin Boards.ie comments to the dressing room.

Must have been what the Argentinans did as well to be fair.

One posters views don't reflect the attitude of a team and supporters. Can't expect much, but more entitled to expect a win than in past years

connachta

So 55-7 for Newcastle... they're serious opponent, we have to win next game against them in Galway, taking care about point difference if possible

connachta

wp_rathead wrote: »

Parata is on fire so can't drop him

Sorry to insist on my disagreement on that particular point (we tend to agree 95%).
Parata played both Siberia and Brive. Leader was rested yesterday. And played well last week too. He'll be 100% fresh and focus, Parata won't
So, I'd really want TOH on the wing, Leader for FB, Parata 23 or rested for Cardiff

S12b

Can someone who is sharp on the rules explain what happened for the Brive try in the second half that came directly from TOH dropping that restart. From where I was standing and from the tv replays I watched, the ball didn't seem to go 10....some guy behind me in the crowd said because TOH went for it the fact it didn't go 10 became irrelevant, he knocked it on, Brive got the advantage and ran in the try....surely this isn't right? I would have assumed ball didn't go 10 meaning Connacht scrum unless TOH took it and the ref just gave us the advantage and played away.

Or maybe I'm simply over thinking it and the ball was deemed to have gone 10.

irishbucsfan

S12b wrote: »

Can someone who is sharp on the rules explain what happened for the Brive try in the second half that came directly from TOH dropping that restart. From where I was standing and from the tv replays I watched, the ball didn't seem to go 10....some guy behind me in the crowd said because TOH went for it the fact it didn't go 10 became irrelevant, he knocked it on, Brive got the advantage and ran in the try....surely this isn't right? I would have assumed ball didn't go 10 meaning Connacht scrum unless TOH took it and the ref just gave us the advantage and played away.

Or maybe I'm simply over thinking it and the ball was deemed to have gone 10.

I didn't see the game, but if the receiving team play the ball before it goes 10 then it's play on, regardless of whether they knock it on or collect it. It's only an infringement if the kicking team play it first. I'm assuming Brive were kicking off to Connacht?

wp_rathead

S12b wrote: »

Can someone who is sharp on the rules explain what happened for the Brive try in the second half that came directly from TOH dropping that restart. From where I was standing and from the tv replays I watched, the ball didn't seem to go 10....some guy behind me in the crowd said because TOH went for it the fact it didn't go 10 became irrelevant, he knocked it on, Brive got the advantage and ran in the try....surely this isn't right? I would have assumed ball didn't go 10 meaning Connacht scrum unless TOH took it and the ref just gave us the advantage and played away.

Or maybe I'm simply over thinking it and the ball was deemed to have gone 10.

No it is one of the weirder laws in that it goes against what is ingrained in you as a player from a young age of "play to the whistle"
TOH should have not played it- it would have been our scrum

13.6
Kick-off of under 10 metres but played by an opponent
If the ball does not reach the opponent’s 10-metre line but is first played by an opponent, play continues.
13.7
Kick-off of under 10 metres and not played by an opponent
If the ball does not reach the opponent’s 10-metre line the opposing team has two choices:
To have the ball kicked off again, or
To have a scrum at the centre of the half-way line and they throw in the ball.

flouncer

connachta wrote: »

Sorry to insist on my disagreement on that particular point (we tend to agree 95%).
Parata played both Siberia and Brive. Leader was rested yesterday. And played well last week too. He'll be 100% fresh and focus, Parata won't
So, I'd really want TOH on the wing, Leader for FB, Parata 23 or rested for Cardiff

I would suggest there will be nobody rested who are fit and available for the Munster game. Its a huge game in the scheme of things. As such I expect the strongest team available will be selected.

Lancey Howard

Interview with Robbie on Newstalk shortly

MarinersBlues

Newstalk Interview:

Would like to stay in Ireland for the foreseeable future.
Not ruling out moving to Dublin at the moment.

Reckons its his decision where he goes but with guidance from the IRFU.

Hard to read too much more into what he said really, just leaves me where I was originally.

66/33 Leinster/Connacht

b.gud

Lancey Howard wrote: »

Interview with Robbie on Newstalk shortly

Listen to it here about halfway in

https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/5/23192/23rd_November_2015_-_Breakfast_Part_4/

b.gud

For the week that's in it, I'll leave this here

wp_rathead

b.gud wrote: »

Listen to it here about halfway in

https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/5/23192/23rd_November_2015_-_Breakfast_Part_4/

Sounds like he is gone tbh

MarinersBlues

wp_rathead wrote: »

Sounds like he is gone tbh

I don't think so.
The questions were posed on the assumption that he was going.
He just answered them as they came and said he was keeping his options open.

He made an attempt to suggest France as a possible destination and then completely ruled it out shortly afterwards.

I wouldn't read anything into it other than Ivan Yates thinks Robbie is going to Leinster.

b.gud

MarinersBlues wrote: »

I don't think so.
The questions were posed on the assumption that he was going.
He just answered them as they came and said he was keeping his options open.

He made an attempt to suggest France as a possible destination and then completely ruled it out shortly afterwards.

I wouldn't read anything into it other than Ivan Yates all of the media thinks Robbie is going to Leinster.

FYP

MarinersBlues

My post didn't need "F"ing.

From that interview the only conclusion that could be drawn was Ivan's opinion.
From observing the general (Dublin based) media you could draw conclusions on their opinions.

In the end it is all just different peoples opinions.
There is very little coming out of Robbie other than to say that he is keeping his options open.

That, to me, would suggest a slightly greater chance of moving on than staying, but more than anything, it implies there is nothing concrete yet.

flouncer

With fire and brimstone emperor leo must start his cull
If he is to retain any hope of maintaining his pull
let the old and infirm feel his wrath
as the cup of eternal youth is his path

Will Saint Anthony be able to find what is lost
Or will he lose even more to his cost
Has he found whats he needs
Or is there to be some further bleeds

Will King Les's reign span the seasons
Or will the deathly kiss of his fans see no reasons
As the saxons break his defense
he must marshall his men to show some sense

Are there any to face the might of Pats men
As they go in seach of a win again
The violence of his lambs
Is scaring the mighty rams

cuculainn

MarinersBlues wrote: »

My post didn't need "F"ing.

From that interview the only conclusion that could be drawn was Ivan's opinion.
From observing the general (Dublin based) media you could draw conclusions on their opinions.

In the end it is all just different peoples opinions.
There is very little coming out of Robbie other than to say that he is keeping his options open.

That, to me, would suggest a slightly greater chance of moving on than staying, but more than anything, it implies there is nothing concrete yet.

Thought he could have been "schooled" a bit better in how to deal with questions of where he was going....

No talk of " well I'm playing for Connacht and focused on x,y,z...."
or

"I'm enjoying playing at Connacht and keeping options open" etc etc

I fact I don't think Connacht was mentioned once in the whole scenario

Refreshing in one sense that he is not that rehearsed but also sad that his departure is imminent

wp_rathead

MarinersBlues wrote: »

I don't think so.
The questions were posed on the assumption that he was going.
He just answered them as they came and said he was keeping his options open.

He made an attempt to suggest France as a possible destination and then completely ruled it out shortly afterwards.

I wouldn't read anything into it other than Ivan Yates thinks Robbie is going to Leinster.

Yes Ivan used alot of leading questions alright

Zzippy

Robbie is in a difficult position. Whether he wants to move or not we don't know. But even if he wants to stay, he needs to make sure he gets the best possible deal for himself - his next contract will be big money, but if the IRFU thinks he's loyal to Connacht they can lowball him with an offer that's less than he's really worth. Therefore he gives the impression he is open-minded, and lets other provinces/clubs think he's available. Hopefully the best IRFU offer is a central contract to remain at Connacht.

flouncer

robbie, on a central contract, can play for any province at the same wage. who he selects is his choice. i'm back to agreeing with george hook (not a normal thing). robbie you believe or you dont. it is a statement by you

macslash

Lads, I see the test jerseys on lifestyle are 95 yoyo...they always that dear? :O

flouncer

macslash wrote: »

Lads, I see the test jerseys on lifestyle are 95 yoyo...they always that dear? :O

were u looking for the robbie signed jersey? rumour has it the signed flouncer jersey going cheaper :-)

b.gud

macslash wrote: »

Lads, I see the test jerseys on lifestyle are 95 yoyo...they always that dear? :O

Ya they are, the test jersey is the one the players wear during a match as opposed to the replica version which is designed for the majority of fans.

Unless you actually specifically want a test version of the jersey it's probably not the one for you, if that makes sense

b.gud

Referee for the weekend

Referee: Ben Whitehouse (WRU, 13th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Mark Patton, Jonathan Peak (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Peter Ferguson (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

b.gud

b.gud wrote: »

Referee for the weekend

Referee: Ben Whitehouse (WRU, 13th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Mark Patton, Jonathan Peak (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Peter Ferguson (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

freyners

Green lantern jersey to be worn vs munster. I know ulster had a similar theme jersey recently did the team actually ever wear it

Henry Ford III

flouncer wrote: »

robbie, on a central contract, can play for any province at the same wage. who he selects is his choice. i'm back to agreeing with george hook (not a normal thing). robbie you believe or you dont. it is a statement by you

It's not that simple.

Nucifora can insist for example that Henshaw plays at Champions Cup level every year.

That'd probably see him moving away from Connacht.

Shelflife

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's not that simple.

Nucifora can insist for example that Henshaw plays at Champions Cup level every year.

That'd probably see him moving away from Connacht.

He could insist on that , but it would open a huge can of worms for another day.

If say Leinster just missed on on CC, would they insist on all of the central contracted players moving to a team that had qualified ? It would be a legal minefield.

b.gud

Can anyone come up with a single convincing argument that the IRFU insists that Henshaw, or anyone else for that matter, must play in the Champions cup?

connemara man

b.gud wrote: »

Can anyone come up with a single convincing argument that the IRFU insists that Henshaw, or anyone else for that matter, must play in the Challenge cup?

In the champions cup? You mean...

I'd go with, higher standard of rugby, against stronger opposition, in general higher quality players(nearer to national teams), the opposition puts more effort into it in general, that's of the top of my head.

I don't have any reason to move Robbie to Leinster under the above. As they have 12 internationals in their team usually, but a move to Munster makes sense they need a 13 more than anyone else.

I don't think you'd leave Connacht for coaching reasons. Pat seems to be doing a great job, yes its slightly easier as he has less squad disruption over all (id like to see how many different starting 15s the provinces have played though) but his use of Academy is brilliant

Sea_point

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's not that simple.

Nucifora can insist for example that Henshaw plays at Champions Cup level every year.

That'd probably see him moving away from Connacht.

Nonsense Nucifora can't insist. No-one can.

He can ask the player to agree to play at a specific province and put forward an argument why they should consider. But that's all he can do under HR legislation [Restraint of trade ref: Bosman Ruling etc]..

The Ball is entirely in Robbie's court..

b.gud

connemara man wrote: »

In the champions cup? You mean...

Yeah thanks that was a typo

connemara man wrote: »

I'd go with, higher standard of rugby, against stronger opposition, in general higher quality players(nearer to national teams), the opposition puts more effort into it in general, that's of the top of my head.

So what your saying is that Henshaws performances this year in the 6N and RWC for Ireland were limited by his playing in the challenge cup?

God help the other teams once he starts playing in the champions cup and can break free of the debilitating limitations that playing in the challenge cup has placed on his game

connemara man

b.gud wrote: »

Yeah thanks that was a typo



So what your saying is that Henshaws performances this year in the 6N and RWC for Ireland were limited by his playing in the challenge cup?

God help the other teams once he starts playing in the champions cup and can break free of the debilitating limitations that playing in the challenge cup has placed on his game

In all fairness that's not what I said. You asked what the advantages would be and I liste a few of the top of my head. Playing against better quality opposition on a regular basis would be better for his development.
I think we're currently the best coached team at the moment and with enough good players to be playing champions cup consistently so he could get that here anyway from next year on. But that might be too late for the contract negotiations

Henry Ford III

Sea_point wrote: »

Nonsense Nucifora can't insist. No-one can.

He can ask the player to agree to play at a specific province and put forward an argument why they should consider. But that's all he can do under HR legislation [Restraint of trade ref: Bosman Ruling etc]..

The Ball is entirely in Robbie's court..

Nonsense.

Any employee can be told his job location is changing, or that his new contract requires a change of location.

Don't forget he's also free to go abroad.

b.gud

connemara man wrote: »

In all fairness that's not what I said. You asked what the advantages would be and I liste a few of the top of my head. Playing against better quality opposition on a regular basis would be better for his development.
I think we're currently the best coached team at the moment and with enough good players to be playing champions cup consistently so he could get that here anyway from next year on. But that might be too late for the contract negotiations

True but the question I put forward was for a convincing argument why it should be insisted that he play in the champions cup, and you put forward the quality as an advantage of the champions cup. If you're saying that it's an advantage to play a better quality opponent then by default you are saying that playing lesser opponents is a disadvantage. If a player is playing with disadvantages then it's obviously going to result in some sort of limitations in their game

TBH I don't think the "better qualitly" argument holds up when you look at the performances he put in for Ireland over the last year playing at the "lower level".

We also need to look outside of Ireland for a minute and ask ourselves are players like Warburton, Tuilagi, Faletau and Hidalgo-Clyne who are all playing in the challenge cup going to be limited by it.

Robbo

What would happen if he was moved to AN Other Province before the season's out, ostensibly to play Champions Cup rugby and his new destination were pipped to qualification by Connacht?

I presume we'd then be hearing how the French and English aren't particularly concerned about some of their stars "slumming it" in the second tier competition.

Sea_point

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Nonsense.

Any employee can be told his job location is changing, or that his new contract requires a change of location.

Don't forget he's also free to go abroad.

No you really can not. An employer can ask you to relocate only.
The decision whether you want to or not remains entirely with the employee.And in any organisation where you're talking about their star performer that counts double.

In any case he won't be an IRFU employee but a free agent, as any new contract would begin the day after his old contract expires.

Henshaw is entirely in control of where he plays, the only thing the IRFU can control is how much they're prepared to pay him. But he's made that a little easier for them by indicating he wants to remain in Ireland. Without the threat of doing "a Sexton" they can probably offer just a wee bit less.

Henry Ford III

Sea_point wrote: »

No you really can not. An employer can ask you to relocate only.
The decision whether you want to or not remains entirely with the employee.And in any organisation where you're talking about their star performer that counts double.

In any case he won't be an IRFU employee but a free agent, as any new contract would begin the day after his old contract expires.

Henshaw is entirely in control of where he plays, the only thing the IRFU can control is how much they're prepared to pay him. But he's made that a little easier for them by indicating he wants to remain in Ireland. Without the threat of doing "a Sexton" they can probably offer just a wee bit less.

Splitting hairs I'd suggest.

Either way I can't see any possibility of Henshaw playing for Connacht next season.

S12b

Very cool!!