Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

Zzippy

connachta wrote: »

Whatever you think about Carty, you can't deny our backline was very fluid tonight, TOH Healy Aki and Poolman are well up to it. Add Henshaw and Ronaldson. I'm confident about this.

Have you been drinking? Our backline were not very fluid. How many kicks went straight into touch? How many kicks were sliced? We had a few clean breaks and then knocked on. Two of the tries were from Muldoon and the other was a back try assisted by Muldoon. Aki was quiet tonight, except to the ref. Healy hardly got the ball and was well marshalled when he did. TOH was ok but sliced a few kicks. Porter was poor, McGinty was ok but kicking terrible, same for Carty. We can be confident of the future games with Henshaw and Ronaldson back but let's not be delusional about tonight.

connachta

Zzippy wrote: »

Have you been drinking? Our backline were not very fluid. How many kicks went straight into touch? How many kicks were sliced? We had a few clean breaks and then knocked on. Two of the tries were from Muldoon and the other was a back try assisted by Muldoon. Aki was quiet tonight, except to the ref. Healy hardly got the ball and was well marshalled when he did. TOH was ok but sliced a few kicks. Porter was poor, McGinty was ok but kicking terrible, same for Carty. We can be confident of the future games with Henshaw and Ronaldson back but let's not be delusional about tonight.

I was talking about 11 to 15, not 9-10 pairing (which will be different than Porter/McGinty anyway)
Just think Aki did what he was expected to do, Healy was a threat as usal. Poolman so solid for a comeback. and as you said, TOH ok.

Marmion/Carty/Healy/Aki/Henshaw/Poolman/TOH, with Ronaldson and Parata on the bench suits me perfectly. I trust them 100% for Scarlets (kicking game aside of course).

I'm much more concerned with our lack of depth in 2nd row. Muldowney and Dillane shouldn't play against Enisei.

connachta

IMO the most likely scenario for QF is a good old trip to Kingston Park for Connacht.
But it could also be the worst (Quins)
or more original (Grenoble or Sale away)

The other scenario (Embra, Dragons) are less likely IMO, but who knows...

b.gud

Carty and MacGinty both got good change when they attacked the defence but 1 kick from 6 is absolutely abysmal from our first choice out half and a guy who plays international rugby and should be pushing for the first choice 10

Billysays no

connachta wrote: »

I was talking about 11 to 15, not 9-10 pairing (which will be different than Porter/McGinty anyway)
Just think Aki did what he was expected to do, Healy was a threat as usal. Poolman so solid for a comeback. and as you said, TOH ok.

Marmion/Carty/Healy/Aki/Henshaw/Poolman/TOH, with Ronaldson and Parata on the bench suits me perfectly. I trust them 100% for Scarlets (kicking game aside of course).

I'm much more concerned with our lack of depth in 2nd row. Muldowney and Dillane shouldn't play against Enisei.

you pick many a team. please stop doing that. if i were to be fair i kinda liked our backline today. but it was utter pants. so i grow older and i learn its not about the selection, its about the team strategy. So if its denis buckley at 15 and tiernan at 1 then so be it. it was a ****e performance and pat should take the hit

connachta

b.gud wrote: »

Carty and MacGinty both got good change when they attacked the defence but 1 kick from 6 is absolutely abysmal from our first choice out half and a guy who plays international rugby and should be pushing for the first choice 10

Nobody said differently. Clear day off, even nightmare for kicking duties, from Porter, Carty, McGinty, TOH everyone.
Which means on a regular basis, on a normal day, if you put this epiphenomenon aside, we"re ok. Cardiff and Scarlets matches were lost by knock-ons on the tryline, this one by kicking disaster. We HAVE TO take those tight defeats positively, better fate will come, statistically.

connachta

Billysays no wrote: »

if i were to be fair i kinda liked our backline today.

There we are

Billysays no

connachta wrote: »

There we are

there we are NOT. it ended up as crap selection. Does heenan make a team, does buckley make a team. suggest your teams but in reality pat is the arbitrator. and pat as the arbitrator has underachieved of recent times. i do not blame the players for the recent losses. i do blame pat. while i have my opinion who plays, and as i suggested it would have been my favoured backline, it was utter rubbish, I do not pick the team, Pat does.

BrokenMan

Billysays no wrote: »

there we are NOT. it ended up as crap selection. Does heenan make a team, does buckley make a team. suggest your teams but in reality pat is the arbitrator. and pat as the arbitrator has underachieved of recent times. i do not blame the players for the recent losses. i do blame pat. while i have my opinion who plays, and as i suggested it would have been my favoured backline, it was utter rubbish, I do not pick the team, Pat does.

Sorry it I can't agree at all. The last two matches were lost be individuals making basic error. Be it dropped passes, poor discipline, poor kicking, missed kicks at goals.
These are not system or management failures. They are down to the individuals.

Billysays no

BrokenMan wrote: »

Sorry it I can't agree at all. The last two matches were lost be individuals making basic error. Be it dropped passes, poor discipline, poor kicking, missed kicks at goals.
These are not system or management failures. They are down to the individuals.

thats a relief. thank god i'm wrong

wp_rathead

Healy's double chip was a thing of beauty, it deserved to happen in a better match

connachta

I insist there are many positive points in that game.

We ran with the ball in hand far better than Brive
We have beaten 25 defenders they've beaten only 4 (which means a lot about both attack and defence qualities)
The offloads were masterpieces from Connacht overall (including some forward players)
The lineout was much improved and nearly perfect 93% of throws won, 4 stolen to Brive
and only 4 tackles missed in the whole game!!

Once again even with an average kicking game, we would have won it. That's just a specific mental issue (stop knocking-on on the tryline, stop conceeding penalties at the death, clearing under pressure and kicking to the post). Otherwise players are good, team is good.

Iompair

21 knock ons according to ESPN, those killed our momentum and handed Brive so much easy ball. The kicking was woeful, no idea how 2 professional players could both have such a bad day from the tee.

We really need to get out of this rut or it's another missed season.

KBurke85

connachta wrote: »

I insist there are many positive points in that game.

We ran with the ball in hand far better than Brive
We have beaten 25 defenders they've beaten only 4 (which means a lot about both attack and defence qualities)
The offloads were masterpieces from Connacht overall (including some forward players)
The lineout was much improved and nearly perfect 93% of throws won, 4 stolen to Brive
and only 4 tackles missed in the whole game!!

Once again even with an average kicking game, we would have won it. That's just a specific mental issue (stop knocking-on on the tryline, stop conceeding penalties at the death, clearing under pressure and kicking to the post). Otherwise players are good, team is good.

At the end of the day Positives and stats don't matter a bit. All that matters is the scoreline and in the past 5 games we ve being on the wrongside of it.

MarinersBlues

KBurke85 wrote: »

At the end of the day Positives and stats don't matter a bit. All that matters is the scoreline and in the past 5 games we ve being on the wrongside of it.

So all analysis should be done from the teletext page???
When it clicks they will pull off some big upsets later in the season.
I'm just waiting and keeping an eye on the bookies prices week by week.


I am not particularly dissapointed with the result.
I would always have preferred to have an away q-final so our fate would be decided quickly in the competition. Either out, or a home semi.
A home q-final would have just drained effort and resources until late in the season for an up hill challenge in the semi.
I would even have preferred elimination at the group stage rather than a home q-final.
The challenge cup is the epitome of winner or nothing.

It is disappointing and worrying that important players aren't firing.

connachta

KBurke85 wrote: »

At the end of the day Positives and stats don't matter a bit. All that matters is the scoreline and in the past 5 games we ve being on the wrongside of it.

The scorline doesn't matter a bit as this competition doesn't either (since we've been promised to an away QF)

My route plan isn't modified, I'm consistent with what I said in October. I expected nothing from ChallengeC, and nothing from away games to Leinster Cardiff and Scarlets. I've got a surplus of 2 BP. Ulster game was 3 points less than I hoped

I've always known December and January would be a period of defeats. I'm very happy that the team didn't collapse at all.
But now, it's clear we have to win every game we should win. No Ulster scenario again. 5 to 6 wins out of 10 is the target. Scarlets is a "win or die" game, and always have been such in my mind.
That's why I said Heenan, Henshaw, White and "Buckley with more rugby under the belt" make me pretty confident to complete a very decent squad, and get those 5-6 victories

b.gud

Just thinking about it again this morning I'm kinda happy about last night's game. Hear me out.

The challenge cup does not matter at all our focus is the pro12 and we should win next week and qualify for the play offs, which I'm happy enough with in a competition that doesn't mean all that much.

The main reason I'm happy is that our performance was so bad that there is no way we can play that bad again this season and hopefully we can have a reaction to how poor that performance was

Funk It

b.gud wrote: »

The main reason I'm happy is that our performance was so bad that there is no way we can play that bad again this season and hopefully we can have a reaction to how poor that performance was

Love the optimism, and this is something I used to tell myself after horrible defeats, saying we'll learn from it or use it as motivation for the next game. Im just worried that we honestly don't learn. Scarlets defeat was hard to take, and now this.

Still back them 100%, but need a big boost as we head into the 6 nations period if we are looking at a top half of the table finish in the Pro 12.

ClanofLams

I don't agree that the challenge cup doesn't matter, it's not like our cupboards are overflowing with silverware.

Hopefully we can go on a right run in the league and be in a very strong position by the time the away QF rolls around so we're not forced to prioritise.

typhoony

connachta wrote: »

The scorline doesn't matter a bit as this competition doesn't either (since we've been promised to an away QF)

My route plan isn't modified, I'm consistent with what I said in October. I expected nothing from ChallengeC, and nothing from away games to Leinster Cardiff and Scarlets. I've got a surplus of 2 BP. Ulster game was 3 points less than I hoped

I've always known December and January would be a period of defeats. I'm very happy that the team didn't collapse at all.
But now, it's clear we have to win every game we should win. No Ulster scenario again. 5 to 6 wins out of 10 is the target. Scarlets is a "win or die" game, and always have been such in my mind.
That's why I said Heenan, Henshaw, White and "Buckley with more rugby under the belt" make me pretty confident to complete a very decent squad, and get those 5-6 victories

any upate on Heenan, we badly need an openside for Scarlets game

ClanofLams

Billysays no wrote: »

toh was rubbish.

That's nonsense.

wp_rathead

i don't get the "scoreline doesn't matter" attitude - the players and Pat really wanted to win in Brive (hence the strong lineup)
That loss will have hurt a lot last night

Our tactical kicking (kicking out on the full) and our placekicking was a worry (what was it, 13 points left out there)

b.gud wrote:

The main reason I'm happy is that our performance was so bad that there is no way we can play that bad again this season and hopefully we can have a reaction to how poor that performance was

I get what you are saying but we should have got a reaction from the Scarlets game and losing at the death there- instead we got handling errors galore..

typhoony wrote: »

any upate on Heenan, we badly need an openside for Scarlets game

on the Craggy Island Podcast for the Scarlets game they said he was doing stretches after the game and Linley MacKenzie said he wasn't mentioned at the press conference when talking about injured players - gotta assume he is fine

Bazzo

Well that was painful to watch. 5 missed kicks at goal says it all really.

Eponymous

Lads/Ladies, I'm heading to my first game in the Sportsground on Saturday next, have tickets for the Grandstand Terrace. Does it fill up early? Where's good for pre/post match pints nearby?

KBurke85

Think Heenan is fine, posted a picture of himself on social media out walking on some mountain or cliff over the weekend.

connemara man

Eponymous wrote: »

Lads/Ladies, I'm heading to my first game in the Sportsground on Saturday next, have tickets for the Grandstand Terrace. Does it fill up early? Where's good for pre/post match pints nearby?

45mins before kick off should get you your choice of spot. 20 mins and it'll start to really fill up. That's what I see from the other side, but actually being over there may be different to that. Pre match pints I'd say in town Eyre square or out a bit the huntsman. They have most of the gathering crowds and serve food

b.gud

http://www.the42.ie/brive-player-connacht-fans-drinks-singsong-2554035-Jan2016/

Robbo

Quin Roux is back on the anti-gravity treadmill today.

connachta

Robbo wrote: »

Quin Roux is back on the anti-gravity treadmill today.

Great news, compensate a bit AhYou official departure http://www.connachtrugby.ie/rodney-ah-you-to-join-ulster/#ConnachtNews

BrokenMan

Very disappointed to see Rodney leaving. Connaught really backed him and gave him his chance when he was going through such poor form. Renewed his contact when no one else would have given him a second look.

S12b

Yup very disappointed to see him leave and I'm still struggling to understand the move. In a very quick space of time, tight-head could go from a position of great depth to a very light one, especially if White is involved for the 6 Nations

Billysays no

ClanofLams wrote: »

That's nonsense.

Look he missed kicks all over the shop. It was out on the full here or aimless there. I think he's a fantastic player but last game showed he didn't work well under the pressure of a required result. That said when you have a 9 and 10 who are excelling in less than ordinary it does put pressure on all the other folks.

wp_rathead

Go waaaaan Dillane!!

ClanofLams

Billysays no wrote: »

Look he missed kicks all over the shop. It was out on the full here or aimless there. I think he's a fantastic player but last game showed he didn't work well under the pressure of a required result. That said when you have a 9 and 10 who are excelling in less than ordinary it does put pressure on all the other folks.

Specific examples would be good rather than general musings which can't validate your viewpoint.

Admittedly my stream wasn't the best but I can only recall one poor kick. He gave a brilliant pass to Healy for a break that led to Muldoons first try and generally was solid, if not as spectacular as on other occasions. To call his performance rubbish is nonsense.

ClanofLams

wp_rathead wrote: »

Go waaaaan Dillane!!

Great to see but if he's not released back for pro12 games during 6N we are very stretched in the 2nd row.

Bazzo

Squad update ahead of Enisei:

Henshaw and Marmion available.

McKeon has picked up a new injury and remains unavailable, Leader re-aggravated a wrist injury and remains unavailable. JHW is going through return to play protocols, Ronaldson is still having pain with a shoulder injury.

http://www.connachtrugby.ie/squad-update-ahead-of-enisei-stm-game/#ConnachtNews

wp_rathead

I'm probably fecking up somewhere but:
If we get TBP Win on Sat we'll be on 19 points
Lets say for arguments sake Brive get a TBP Win in Newcastle and are on 20

Sale (on 18) play Dragons (on 20)
A win, draw or 2 BPs for Sale will bring them 20+
1 BP will get them level on 19 with Connacht

Montpellier (on 15) v Quins (on 25)
A TBP Win for Montpellier will get them 20
A win will get them level on 19 with Connacht

Grenoble (on 18) v Edinburgh (on 17)
A win for either will bring them above 20
A draw with both sides getting TBP will bring both to 21/20
A draw / a LBP with a TBP will bring Grenoble to 20
A LBP and TBP will bring Edinburgh to 19 level with Connacht
A LBP or TBP will bring Grenoble to 19 level with Connacht

There could be a scenario where Connacht, Sale, Montpellier and Grenoble/Edinburgh are all on 19 points..

CMOTDibbler

ClanofLams wrote: »

Specific examples would be good rather than general musings which can't validate your viewpoint.

Admittedly my stream wasn't the best but I can only recall one poor kick. He gave a brilliant pass to Healy for a break that led to Muldoons first try and generally was solid, if not as spectacular as on other occasions. To call his performance rubbish is nonsense.

According to the stats, he conceded 4 turnovers. He wasn't the only one with that number; Aly Muldowney and John Muldoon also conceded 4 each.

As a team, 21 turnovers conceded is dreadful stuff. Munster conceded just 16 in the match that they'd prefer to forget, so if it's a stick to beat Munster with...

I made the point a couple of weeks ago about the number of tries that Connacht are conceding and got the glib response that "so long as we're scoring more..."

Each turnover is a potential try. Against better opposition it usually is.

Robbo

wp_rathead wrote: »

I'm probably fecking up somewhere but:
If we get TBP Win on Sat we'll be on 19 points
Lets say for arguments sake Brive get a TBP Win in Newcastle and are on 20

Sale (on 18) play Dragons (on 20)
A win, draw or 2 BPs for Sale will bring them 20+
1 BP will get them level on 19 with Connacht

Montpellier (on 15) v Quins (on 25)
A TBP Win for Montpellier will get them 20
A win will get them level on 19 with Connacht

Grenoble (on 18) v Edinburgh (on 17)
A win for either will bring them above 20
A draw with both sides getting TBP will bring both to 21/20
A draw / a LBP with a TBP will bring Grenoble to 20
A LBP and TBP will bring Edinburgh to 19 level with Connacht
A LBP or TBP will bring Grenoble to 19 level with Connacht

There could be a scenario where Connacht, Sale, Montpellier and Grenoble/Edinburgh are all on 19 points..

My head, it hurrrrts.

Better scenarios: Newcastle beat Brive or Brive win without a bonus where we get one. We go through as pool winners on head-to-head.

oneofakind32

Does anyone else remember how bad Rodney was that last season under the old scrummaging laws, before they got rid of the hit? He was coming back from injury at the time. I remember one game(correct me if I'm wrong) where he came off the bench, gave away a pen. try and was brought back off within the space of 10 minutes. The change in the laws did him a huge favor. I remember at the time thinking that Connacht did well to stick by him in the hard times and reap the rewards when he came good again.

Zzippy

oneofakind32 wrote: »

Does anyone else remember how bad Rodney was that last season under the old scrummaging laws, before they got rid of the hit? He was coming back from injury at the time. I remember one game(correct me if I'm wrong) where he came off the bench, gave away a pen. try and was brought back off within the space of 10 minutes. The change in the laws did him a huge favor. I remember at the time thinking that Connacht did well to stick by him in the hard times and reap the rewards when he came good again.

Yeah it's disappointing to lose him, but his market value is a lot higher now so we probably can't afford to keep him. It frees up some money to keep Henshaw though... (I wish!)

wp_rathead

Well Robbie be on central contract but it will free up money for likes of Muldowney and Heenan who out contract

Billysays no

wp_rathead wrote: »

Well Robbie be on central contract but it will free up money for likes of Muldowney and Heenan who out contract

Seriously, Heenan is out of contract. I know we've not seen much of him but what we have seen is damm good. Surprised he hasn't been tied down already?

On another matter what happened to darragh last weekend. Is it true he's out for the rest of the season?

molloyjh

http://connachttribune.ie/connacht-are-getting-bum-deal-from-match-officials/

This needs to stop. Blaming the referee for "scandalous" decisions in games that Connacht were at fault for losing is just ridiculous. Never mind the complete inaccuracies in rugby law in the article.

Apparently Leinster held a "tenuous" 3-0 lead in a game where Connacht failed to score completely despite the fact that tenuous implies Leinster could have lost the lead.....to a team that couldn't score. Apparently Clancys fall prevented him seeing the grounding despite the fact that he never took his eyes off the ball even when falling. Apparently after asking if there was any reason to not allow the try and the TMO could see nothing that should mean a 5m scrum to Leinster despite the fact that no definitive reason not to award the try in that case means the try has to be given. Apparently the TMO should have bitten the bullet and told Clancy not to award the try despite the fact he had absolutely no legal basis to do so. Apparently it was a game changing moment, again despite the fact that Connacht couldn't score.

Then in the Scarlets game apparently they lost because of the decision not to award the Masterson try despite the fact that this happened very early on in the game and there was still plenty of time left to go out and win it (and despite the fact that there was no clear indication at all that Masterson actually had downward pressure on the ball, IMO he didn't. AND despite the fact that they were still winning with 2 to go and through their own actions threw it away.).

It's just embarrassing at this stage. There were genuine complaints last season bit I've seen little to indicate there are any this season. I also notice there was no discussion about everything Connacht got away with in the Leinster game either, but then that doesn't fit the narrative. I really want to see Connacht do well, but this kind of thing hampers them rather than helps.

molloyjh

http://connachttribune.ie/connacht-are-getting-bum-deal-from-match-officials/

This needs to stop. Blaming the referee for "scandalous" decisions in games that Connacht were at fault for losing is just ridiculous. Never mind the complete inaccuracies in rugby law in the article.

Apparently Leinster held a "tenuous" 3-0 lead in a game where Connacht failed to score completely despite the fact that tenuous implies Leinster could have lost the lead.....to a team that couldn't score. Apparently Clancys fall prevented him seeing the grounding despite the fact that he never took his eyes off the ball even when falling. Apparently after asking if there was any reason to not allow the try and the TMO could see nothing that should mean a 5m scrum to Leinster despite the fact that no definitive reason not to award the try in that case means the try has to be given. Apparently the TMO should have bitten the bullet and told Clancy not to award the try despite the fact he had absolutely no legal basis to do so. Apparently it was a game changing moment, again despite the fact that Connacht couldn't score. Plus let's not forget that a 5m scrum to Leinster would have had them in prime position to score anyway, it's not like you can just wipe 7 points off the final result.

Then in the Scarlets game apparently they lost because of the decision not to award the Masterson try despite the fact that this happened very early on in the game and there was still plenty of time left to go out and win it (and despite the fact that there was no clear indication at all that Masterson actually had downward pressure on the ball, IMO he didn't. AND despite the fact that they were still winning with 2 to go and through their own actions threw it away.).

It's just embarrassing at this stage. There were genuine complaints last season but I've seen little to indicate there are any this season. I also notice there was no discussion about everything Connacht got away with in the Leinster game either, but then that doesn't fit the narrative. I really want to see Connacht do well, but this kind of thing hampers them rather than helps.

BrokenMan

Agreed a very poor article that does deflect from the problem that Connacht could and should have won their last 2 games. I genuinely believe the ref saw a grounded ball in the Leinster game.

I do think there's an argument that can be made that Mastersons effort against Scarletts should have stood for the second grounding but its done and dusted....time to move on. the game should still have been won.

former total

Criiiinge. That would be embarrassing on boards, but it's absolutely ridiculous to be in a newspaper.

connemara man

It's a ridiculous article. No sane Connacht fan would have blamed the last 4 results on refs. Like I think you can question the odd decision but Connacht lost those matches all on their own. Listen to Craggy island podcast its a good listen and they can remove the green tinted glasses when need be.

Zzippy

molloyjh wrote: »

http://connachttribune.ie/connacht-are-getting-bum-deal-from-match-officials/

This needs to stop. Blaming the referee for "scandalous" decisions in games that Connacht were at fault for losing is just ridiculous. Never mind the complete inaccuracies in rugby law in the article.

Apparently Leinster held a "tenuous" 3-0 lead in a game where Connacht failed to score completely despite the fact that tenuous implies Leinster could have lost the lead.....to a team that couldn't score. Apparently Clancys fall prevented him seeing the grounding despite the fact that he never took his eyes off the ball even when falling. Apparently after asking if there was any reason to not allow the try and the TMO could see nothing that should mean a 5m scrum to Leinster despite the fact that no definitive reason not to award the try in that case means the try has to be given. Apparently the TMO should have bitten the bullet and told Clancy not to award the try despite the fact he had absolutely no legal basis to do so. Apparently it was a game changing moment, again despite the fact that Connacht couldn't score. Plus let's not forget that a 5m scrum to Leinster would have had them in prime position to score anyway, it's not like you can just wipe 7 points off the final result.

Then in the Scarlets game apparently they lost because of the decision not to award the Masterson try despite the fact that this happened very early on in the game and there was still plenty of time left to go out and win it (and despite the fact that there was no clear indication at all that Masterson actually had downward pressure on the ball, IMO he didn't. AND despite the fact that they were still winning with 2 to go and through their own actions threw it away.).

It's just embarrassing at this stage. There were genuine complaints last season but I've seen little to indicate there are any this season. I also notice there was no discussion about everything Connacht got away with in the Leinster game either, but then that doesn't fit the narrative. I really want to see Connacht do well, but this kind of thing hampers them rather than helps.

Have you considered writing to the paper? Or starting a blog?
Tell the journo it's embarrassing, don't be coming here and telling us like it's us who should be embarrassed...

molloyjh

Zzippy wrote: »

Have you considered writing to the paper? Or starting a blog?
Tell the journo it's embarrassing, don't be coming here and telling us like it's us who should be embarrassed...

Ah come on, we both saw Connacht fans saying almost the exact same things at the time on here. And in fairness my post only talks about the article. Not sure how you think I was aiming it at anything else.