Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

S12b

irishgrover wrote: »

Re: Henshaw
I'm very reluctant to say this, or even start the discussion again, however.....
I think he is probably on his way out.
The reason I say this is that it has been said a number of times before that he wanted everything done and dusted re contacts and moves by Christmas. If one assumes that this was that case, and he decided to stay in Connacht then why would it not have been announced. If a deal has been done, one way of the other, then the only reason I can think of to not announce it until now (or soon) is that he is leaving....
On the other side, my head is saying....why the hell would he go, it seems most probable that in a year or two the Aki will be an irish center.... you could make that argument that all other things being equal he is a better 12 than Henshaw.... so why would Henshaw break up that partnership? especially considering the upward trend of Connacht and the downward trend of Leinster....
who knows?...

As of about 2 weeks ago, there was no deal done. No idea what has happened since Nucifora got back

Billysays no

freyners wrote: »

Think we can expect news on henshaw soon judging by how rob Murphy signed off the latest podcast.

Independent said decision will be by end of week. Its a good time to do it with Connacht on a break.

S12b

Billysays no wrote: »

Independent said decision will be by end of week. Its a good time to do it with Connacht on a break.

And we all know the Independent never get it wrong!!

Billysays no

connachta wrote: »

Which is interesting is the relative freshness of the squad
Buckley AhYou Dillane Heenan Connolly McCartney, even Bealham, all have a number of minutes played still very reasonable in the pack.

Overused players are Muldowney, Muldoon, Masterson Aki, TOH, and Healy (maybe Marmion)
And what is great is Connacht management has fresh cover for them, guys with enough gametime to make them ready to play (Naoupu, Ronaldson, Niyi, Parata, Blade, Porter, SOB 2.0). Add to that a second wawe soon to be back (McKeon, Browne, Marshall, Roux, Carr).

So I do think with targeted rotation we could finish the season without beeing out of depth, as we were last season.
I still believe Lam should have rotated more early December to win Ulster home and maybe Scarlets away (and this home game, which didn't look good after 45 min).
But past is past, now with this squad situation I advocate to make rotations in ones and twos and only for the 6/7 "overused players"

So Carr rotates with toh?

Billysays no

S12b wrote: »

And we all know the Independent never get it wrong!!

hmmm you might have a point

Billysays no

Looking a it the way things have gone. Murray, earls, zebo signed for Munster. Henshaw for Connacht. Maintain the boredom

Billysays no

Incorrect word , boredom. Who would want a winger/fullback who simply ponces around the place and does nothing. Who would want a scrum half who willingly kicks away possession. Who would want a centre that not only doesn't pass but his offloading when tackled is so slow its painful. Sorry Keith earls, you are a quality player. It was the others I was referring to

Bazzo

Billysays no wrote: »

Incorrect word , boredom. Who would want a winger/fullback who simply ponces around the place and does nothing. Who would want a scrum half who willingly kicks away possession. Who would want a centre that not only doesn't pass but his offloading when tackled is so slow its painful. Sorry Keith earls, you are a quality player. It was the others I was referring to

Any one of those players would and probably did receive interest from some of the top clubs in European rugby. They're all test Irish rugby players, some of them are lions. To reduce their abilities to one liners and dismiss them like that is an insult to the players and the national side.

freyners

It is however a testament to his own ability of persistence in the face of all logic

its_phil

Sure isn't rugby 100% attack. What goon thinks half the game is defence? :rolleyes:

Also, as was pointed out to Ouncer, Flouncer, or whatever username this week, Henshaw is a very good offloader through numerous clips. Also, I love that argument about offloading. I'd rather someone pointed out incidents where the offload could have been received i.e. was there a support runner and an opportunity ruined, than pinpointing a severe lack of offloading in the game.

jacothelad

its_phil wrote: »

Sure isn't rugby 100% attack. What goon thinks half the game is defence? :rolleyes:

Also, as was pointed out to Ouncer, Flouncer, or whatever username this week, Henshaw is a very good offloader through numerous clips. Also, I love that argument about offloading. I'd rather someone pointed out incidents where the offload could have been received i.e. was there a support runner and an opportunity ruined, than pinpointing a severe lack of offloading in the game.

Ouncer, Flouncer, Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, and Blitzen.

S12b

Please see last 5 minutes of Connacht Munster game this year for further details of Henshaw's inability to offload......;)

Bazzo

S12b wrote: »

Please see last 5 minutes of Connacht Munster game this year for further details of Henshaw's inability to offload......;)

Or just watch any game he's had for us this year. He makes quite a few offloads every game. He also makes some pretty big breaks(3 or 4? In the Scarlets game) and is usually near the top of the pile with tackles made, rarely missing any. I don't know why you've(billsays no) taken such a dislike to one of our only internationals and one of the most talented players we have available to us buy your criticism of him seems to be founded largely in fantasy.

Marmion is another player you frequently level unfounded criticism at. I have no problem with people being critical of players but when you're just making stuff up or using outdated tropes to beat a player with it gets a bit tiring.

WarZ

If Leinster can't have Henshaw then they should be assigned another play of similar quality

Zzippy

WarZ wrote: »

If Leinster can't have Henshaw then they should be assigned another play of similar quality

Wrong thread, and what a ridiculous comment.

WarZ

Zzippy wrote: »

Wrong thread, and what a ridiculous comment.

I'm talking about Connacht players but ok

Zzippy

You're talking about Leinster being "entitled" to be "assigned" a quality player if they don't get their way with Henshaw. That's a ridiculously entitled comment and is far more about Leinster than Henshaw.

Bazzo

WarZ wrote: »

I'm talking about Connacht players but ok

WarZ

Zzippy wrote: »

You're talking about Leinster being "entitled" to be "assigned" a quality player if they don't get their way with Henshaw. That's a ridiculously entitled comment and is far more about Leinster than Henshaw.

I don't think it's entitled at all and take offence at such a suggestion. Leinster have given away a ton of players to Connacht over the years.

wp_rathead

WarZ wrote: »

I don't think it's entitled at all and take offence at such a suggestion. Leinster have given away a ton of players to Connacht over the years.

I can only think of Nathan White who would be deemed "first choice" Leinster player who Connacht signed (and he was behind Mike Ross)

BrokenMan

WarZ wrote: »

I don't think it's entitled at all and take offence at such a suggestion. Leinster have given away a ton of players to Connacht over the years.

No wonder Leinster are in such a mess with Connacht stealing all their best players. :rolleyes:

Zzippy

WarZ wrote: »

I don't think it's entitled at all and take offence at such a suggestion. Leinster have given away a ton of players to Connacht over the years.

Leinster have never "given away" players to Connacht. Leinster players who were out of contract and/or wanted first team experience chose to come to Connacht. Connacht players who were out of contract and wanted to move went to Leinster. Leinster have loaned 2 players (Cooney and Roux) in the past, both chose to stay when they were offered a choice.

No province is entitled to be assigned players. They can offer players who are out of contract a deal. Thinking otherwise is naive and entitled.

astonaidan

WarZ wrote: »

If Leinster can't have Henshaw then they should be assigned another play of similar quality

Eh......... have you been drinking today sir

Billysays no

S12b wrote: »

Please see last 5 minutes of Connacht Munster game this year for further details of Henshaw's inability to offload......;)

You had to go there. The obvious (a feckin miracle occurred). So last week poolman outside him chopming for the pass. Not a bit of it. Then heading towards the scarlets line well let's just go into contact. Its what I know. Perfect replacement for rob Kearney. Loving it (nottt)

Billysays no

And please understand me Robbie is a damm good centre. He and bundee would be my favoured centres. What I suggest are his obvious weaknesses and things that annoy me at Connacht. He does not support the style of play Connacht plays and as such I don't see any reason for him not to leave. He slows down our play. Its just not Connacht.

I feel pride on the development of Buckley, white, Masterson, Heenan, Healy, poolman and the likes. Not this I slow the play to nothing. So I'm sorry Robbie will do better at Leinster/Munster.

Billysays no

Apologies, double post.

Robbo

WarZ wrote: »

If Leinster can't have Henshaw then they should be assigned another play of similar quality

Hamlet?

connemara man

WarZ wrote: »

If Leinster can't have Henshaw then they should be assigned another play of similar quality

How about ye back ringrose. Ask an out of contract Ulster 12 to move to Dublin and then keep your head in the sand about the fact Leinster had no succession plan for BOD and Darcy retiring. Because you know it was such a surprise.

Posts like that are practically trolling, and firmly keep the idea of the entitled Leinster fan fresh in peoples minds which is a shame as most Leinster fans aren't.

connemara man

Billysays no wrote: »

You had to go there. The obvious (a feckin miracle occurred). So last week poolman outside him chopming for the pass. Not a bit of it. Then heading towards the scarlets line well let's just go into contact. Its what I know. Perfect replacement for rob Kearney. Loving it (nottt)

Like any smart player he won't throw a random pass in contact. Look at the support both those times by taking the contact on his terms we kept possession beyond that phase where as if he offloaded in the tackle he leaves the receiver isolated on the next tackle. Which were coming.

Billysays no

connemara man wrote: »

Like any smart player he won't throw a random pass in contact. Look at the support both those times by taking the contact on his terms we kept possession beyond that phase where as if he offloaded in the tackle he leaves the receiver isolated on the next tackle. Which were coming.

Connemara-man there is always a tackle coming. Henshaws insistence on taking ball into contact is simply snoreeee. Sorry still snoring.

connemara man

Billysays no wrote: »

Connemara-man there is always a tackle coming. Henshaws insistence on taking ball into contact is simply snoreeee. Sorry still snoring.

But retaining possession is important. There's no point getting a pass away that will isolate the receiver and will lead to a turn over.

its_phil

Billysays no wrote: »

Connemara-man there is always a tackle coming. Henshaws insistence on taking ball into contact is simply snoreeee. Sorry still snoring.

Sure throw Aki in there too, useless b****** never offloads and just gets over the gainline.

This is appalling stuff by the way.

connemara man

its_phil wrote: »

Sure throw Aki in there too, useless b****** never offloads and just gets over the gainline.

This is appalling stuff by the way.

I should know better but its starting to get to me.

Billysays no

connemara man wrote: »

But retaining possession is important. There's no point getting a pass away that will isolate the receiver and will lead to a turn over.

I get what you say. But I ask you to consider what Connacht do. Its a fast offload game. Maybe it works, maybe it doesnt , but Robbie doesn't fit that game. And we have eg. peter Robb, parata, Finn, aki, ronaldson, at centre. I really expect Robb to step up over the next year. We will be most fine without the Robbie contact play stuff

wp_rathead

Billysays no wrote: »

I get what you say. But I ask you to consider what Connacht do. Its a fast offload game. Maybe it works, maybe it doesnt , but Robbie doesn't fit that game. And we have eg. peter Robb, parata, Finn, aki, ronaldson, at centre. I really expect Robb to step up over the next year. We will be most fine without the Robbie contact play stuff

..well i agree with this bit atleast..

irishbucsfan

Is Robb not an example of a player who excels in contact?

connemara man

Billysays no wrote: »

I get what you say. But I ask you to consider what Connacht do. Its a fast offload game. Maybe it works, maybe it doesnt , but Robbie doesn't fit that game. And we have eg. peter Robb, parata, Finn, aki, ronaldson, at centre. I really expect Robb to step up over the next year. We will be most fine without the Robbie contact play stuff

Henshaw looks for the sift shoulder while playing for Connacht nearly always fending off with the ball in the other arm looking to release the ball quickly if suitable. And the point here is if suitable. Not every ball can be offloaded or passed. When teams try and force the play it usually ends up backfiring.

Pat Lam is quoted in saying we don't just play fast rugby we are creating a full rounded game. If this wasn't true our pack wouldn't be creating scores for itself or the platform needed for backs to excel.

Peter Robb is a talent but is kinda a bosch merchant is a hard runner.

Billysays no

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is Robb not an example of a player who excels in contact?

You make a reasonable point. Hard to argue. Big dude. Wouldn't want to mix shoulders with him. My point was that we wouldn't lose anything by losing henshaw. I didn't say we would be more exciting. That said you would think an international player would be more exciting than doing the ball to ground stuff

freyners

Billysays no wrote:

You had to go there. The obvious (a feckin miracle occurred). So last week poolman outside him chopming for the pass. Not a bit of it. Then heading towards the scarlets line well let's just go into contact. Its what I know. Perfect replacement for rob Kearney. Loving it (nottt)

Right let's look at that play. I presume this is the one where blade picked an went and got held up on the tackle either.

This is my read of it by the way. Anyone who sees it different feel free to shout

There were three scarlets players in the mix. One on front and two covering across. Poolman was a few metres behind robbie and Parata was a few metres inside the two covering players in field.

You want robbie to offload to poolman. Very bad call. There is enough scarlets players to deal with the threat anyways as the two lads inside have Robbie covered so their last man back can drift onto danie. If the offload happens robbie has to check his run, losing all momentum, likely half to run back and then attempt to ruck 1 v 2 for at least a couple of seconds until support arrives. Best case scenario is slow ball. Worst is danie is put into touch or a turnover penalty.

By taking it into contact their is no fear of touch being an issue , it brings Parata into play for the ruck and possible offload if scarlets tackle poorly. Mainly it ensures quick ball as we have two players now arrive at speed to contest the ruck, which is a doddle as robbie takes out the two covering defenders. If blade hadn't panicked and tried to go himself a try was in the possibility.

The only thing you can fault robbie for their is not trying to chip across for Parata. But he was going at top speed and it would have been a very difficult kick to pull off so I'm not going to argue it.

Your issue with henshaw always has puzzled me but Tbh at this stage we are hardly going to change your mind. I responded to see whether anyone else read it similar to me

galwaylad14

Why do people bother engaging with this eejit? He either just hasn't a clue about it or is trying to wind ye all up. Either way there's no reason to pay attention to him.

The point he's making is that Robbie Henshaw leaving wouldn't have a negative impact on our team. And people are taking it seriously?!

Evil_g

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Why do people bother engaging with this eejit? He either just hasn't a clue about it or is trying to wind ye all up. Either way there's no reason to pay attention to him.

The point he's making is that Robbie Henshaw leaving wouldn't have a negative impact on our team. And people are taking it seriously?!

Fully agree. At what point does setting up multiple accounts to repeatedly spout the same "controversial" opinion about (if we can hold onto him) Connacht's fourth ever Lions player become trolling?

I'm happy to live and let live, but between the repeated re registrations and peoples' insistence on quoting him, it's literally impossible to ignore.

connachta

The stats don't go to Billisaysno way. Henshaw run 12 passed 8, not unbalanced for a 13.

Bazzo

connachta wrote: »

The stats don't go to Billisaysno way. Henshaw run 12 passed 8, not unbalanced for a 13.

In those 12 runs he also made 93 metres(total for the team: 364).

Awful, just awful.

But people are right, I won't bother engaging any more. I've had my fill of exercises in futility for the week.

connachta

BUT I'd take from Billy that Robb won't bother me if Henshaw leaves. I hope, really hope he doesn't. Meanwhile Robb is already as good as him for defence, and is young enough to develop his ball control.
If we have Aki/Henshaw + Robb/Parata as backup pairing, I dare claim we can't be better filled for centre in Ireland

MarinersBlues

Billysays no wrote: »

Connemara-man there is always a tackle coming. taking ball into contact is simply snoreeee. Sorry still snoring.

To use synonyms for boring, in expressing a viewpoint ad nauseum (whether right or wrong), is not good for my irony meter.

(I was trying to attach a picture to show my broken irony meter but, ironically, the uploaded file seems to be broken.)

its_phil

Connacht are not a fast offloading team either. We're capable of offloading but there are certainly not 15 SBW's on our team.

Think I remember the praise we were getting after Munster game and someone piped up with the stat that Munster actually offloaded more than us

its_phil

connachta wrote: »

BUT I'd take from Billy that Robb won't bother me if Henshaw leaves. I hope, really hope he doesn't. Meanwhile Robb is already as good as him for defence, and is young enough to develop his ball control.
If we have Aki/Henshaw + Robb/Parata as backup pairing, I dare claim we can't be better filled for centre in Ireland

Robb is nowhere near Henshaw in defence and I'd argue few centers at Connacht because he's so bloody good. Probably a case for Aki. Go look at Henshaw in last seasons 6N and France at RWC on Basteraud.

Henshaw is a once in a generation player for Connacht, he will not be replaced easily.

http://www.the42.ie/robbie-henshaw-break-analysis-ireland-france-2385318-Oct2015/

Robbo

We'll also have the potential for a McSharry/Griffin combo next season, god willing. Seemed to work well in a certain shellacking of Leinster in the Sportsground.

ClanofLams

Robbo wrote: »

We'll also have the potential for a McSharry/Griffin combo next season, god willing. Seemed to work well in a certain shellacking of Leinster in the Sportsground.

It would be great if those two could get clean runs at a season or close to it, especially Griffin, there is some amount of untapped potential there due to all the injuries.

I would have my doubts though. I'm not McSharry will be back at all tbh.

Bazzo

Robbo wrote: »

We'll also have the potential for a McSharry/Griffin combo next season, god willing. Seemed to work well in a certain shellacking of Leinster in the Sportsground.

Just had a look at that team, it was so different to the one we're fielding these days it feels like it was ages ago. Swifty and McCarthy playing second row, Johnny concrete at number 7, Parks playing 10. Carr, Roux and Cooney were also playing against us that day!

I hope McSharry gets at least until September off to try and get himself right before he tries to make his comeback. You have to think this will be his last shot with all the concussions and I'd be absolutely gutted for him if he had to retire but it's getting to the point where he has to take his health into consideration.