Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

Bazzo

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Friend is looking to get one of the Green Lantern Jerseys, are they still available anywhere?

This has come up a few times, as far as I can remember the only place(oddly) anyone could find them still for sale is on the Australian BLK wesbite: http://www.blksport.com/default.aspx?q=green+lantern

A2LUE42

Bazzo wrote: »

This has come up a few times, as far as I can remember the only place(oddly) anyone could find them still for sale is on the Australian BLK wesbite: http://www.blksport.com/default.aspx?q=green+lantern

only the Jr one there..

Hagz

Bazzo wrote: »

Also not sure why you took great offense here. Plenty of u20s stars have gone on to do absolutely nothing at senior level and plenty of other u20s who didn't stand out went on to become great players. I would never put a 35, 36 year old next year, Reddan ahead of Blade. What would be the point? You'll also noticely I very specifically said that Porter WASN'T better than Reddan.

I didn't take great offence, don't worry.

Bazzo

A2LUE42 wrote: »

only the Jr one there..

Didn't notice that, the adult ones must have sold out since. It was a limited edition run I think unfortunately.

wp_rathead

When you consider Centrally Contracted players are basically "free" for their respective provinces I gotta say it is pretty disheartening seeing the current list from a Connacht POV:

Leinster have:
Cian Healy
Robbie Henshaw
Rob Kearney
Johnny Sexton
Jamie Heaslip
Sean O’Brien
Devin Toner
Mike Ross

Munster have:
Keith Earls
Conor Murray
Donnacha Ryan
Peter O’Mahoney

Ulster have:
Tommy Bowe
Andrew Trimble
Rory Best

b.gud

wp_rathead wrote: »

When you consider Centrally Contracted players are basically "free" for their respective provinces I gotta say it is pretty disheartening seeing the current list from a Connacht POV:

Leinster have:
Cian Healy
Robbie Henshaw
Rob Kearney
Johnny Sexton
Jamie Heaslip
Sean O’Brien
Devin Toner
Mike Ross

Munster have:
Keith Earls
Conor Murray
Donnacha Ryan
Peter O’Mahoney

Ulster have:
Tommy Bowe
Andrew Trimble
Rory Best

Think I heard someone say Payne has been upgraded to a central contract. Not sure Ross is on a central contract anymore. Just thinking about it with Moore gone don't think we have any centrally contracted tight head

b.gud

b.gud wrote: »

Think I heard someone say Payne has been upgraded to a central contract. Not sure Ross is on a central contract anymore. Just thinking about it with Moore gone don't think we have any centrally contracted tight head

Not that either of those points make it easier for Connacht fans

CMOTDibbler

b.gud wrote: »

Not that either of those points make it easier for Connacht fans

I really don't see this. The provinces are basically branch offices of the IRFU. The central contracts don't really change the fact that the IRFU pretty much subsidise them all to one degree or another. It just comes under a different heading.

Seriously, how could it be any other way?

its_phil

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I really don't see this. The provinces are basically branch offices of the IRFU. The central contracts don't really change the fact that the IRFU pretty much subsidise them all to one degree or another. It just comes under a different heading.

Seriously, how could it be any other way?

Because it's Connachts budget, not the IRFU's.

former total

wp_rathead wrote: »

When you consider Centrally Contracted players are basically "free" for their respective provinces I gotta say it is pretty disheartening seeing the current list from a Connacht POV:

Leinster have:
Cian Healy
Robbie Henshaw
Rob Kearney
Johnny Sexton
Jamie Heaslip
Sean O’Brien
Devin Toner
Mike Ross

Munster have:
Keith Earls
Conor Murray
Donnacha Ryan
Peter O’Mahoney

Ulster have:
Tommy Bowe
Andrew Trimble
Rory Best

Ross is no longer on one.

I take your point re finances but what's the solution?

CMOTDibbler

its_phil wrote: »

Because it's Connachts budget, not the IRFU's.

Where do you think that budget comes from?

irishbucsfan

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Where do you think that budget comes from?

It's a fixed subsidy from the IRFU and the central contracts do make a big difference. They don't adjust the figure based on number of central contracts. It was a big deal back when Trimble got latest.

We might see the likes of Marmion/Dillane promoted ahead of time though if they stay involved nationally.

aimee1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We might see the likes of Marmion/Dillane promoted ahead of time though if they stay involved nationally.

And assuming they stay out west ....... and dont decide they want to play for leinster elsewhere

wp_rathead

former total wrote: »

Ross is no longer on one.

I take your point re finances but what's the solution?

A Solution? Nah I just felt like a bit of a moan tbh

b.gud

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I really don't see this. The provinces are basically branch offices of the IRFU. The central contracts don't really change the fact that the IRFU pretty much subsidise them all to one degree or another. It just comes under a different heading.

Seriously, how could it be any other way?

Yes and no. Yes the budget comes from the IRFU but at the end of the day having a centrally contracted player in your squad makes a big difference. The budget that the IRFU allocate to the provinces has to be used pay the players in the squad. Having a player on a central contract means that you can use the money that you would have been paying them elsewhere. either on a bigger squad or on better quality players. If you have centrally contracted players they don't decrease your budget to adjust for the players that are on a central contract

Currently all provinces have equal player budgets, I have no idea how much it is but for the purposes of a very simplistic example I'm gonna say it's €300k. Lets then assume that each of the provinces is looking to make a maximum squad of 30 players. Using the numbers posted by wp_rathead that would mean that to mean that:

Leinster have a budget of €300k to spend and need 22 players to make up a 30 man squad so they would be able to spend just over €13.5 k per player

Munster would need 26 players to make up the 30 man squad and would have €11.5 k per player

Ulster would need 27 players so would have €11.1 k to spend per player

Connacht need the full 30 so would only be able to spend €10k per player

Using the figures I've given the differences don't seem like much but once you start adding on zeros they'll start to make a big difference.

S12b

Pics on Sportfile from Connacht training.....both Marmion and Bealham there. Didn't see Dillane, not to say he wasn't there of course....

Bazzo

b.gud wrote: »

Yes and no. Yes the budget comes from the IRFU but at the end of the day having a centrally contracted player in your squad makes a big difference. The budget that the IRFU allocate to the provinces has to be used pay the players in the squad. Having a player on a central contract means that you can use the money that you would have been paying them elsewhere. either on a bigger squad or on better quality players. If you have centrally contracted players they don't decrease your budget to adjust for the players that are on a central contract

Currently all provinces have equal player budgets, I have no idea how much it is but for the purposes of a very simplistic example I'm gonna say it's €300k. Lets then assume that each of the provinces is looking to make a maximum squad of 30 players. Using the numbers posted by wp_rathead that would mean that to mean that:

Leinster have a budget of €300k to spend and need 22 players to make up a 30 man squad so they would be able to spend just over €13.5 k per player

Munster would need 26 players to make up the 30 man squad and would have €11.5 k per player

Ulster would need 27 players so would have €11.1 k to spend per player

Connacht need the full 30 so would only be able to spend €10k per player

Using the figures I've given the differences don't seem like much but once you start adding on zeros they'll start to make a big difference.

Is this true? I was very much under the impression that all provinces do not receive equal financing from the IRFU.

b.gud

Bazzo wrote: »

Is this true? I was very much under the impression that all provinces do not receive equal financing from the IRFU.

AFAIK in the last year or so they upped Connachts funding so now all provinces are on equal budgets

Bazzo

b.gud wrote: »

AFAIK in the last year or so they upped Connachts funding so now all provinces are on equal budgets

The last thing I remember about funding being increased was an increase of 1 million a year or two ago that they specifically said wasn't going to be used for player budgets, I think they earmarked it for strength & conditioning facilities.

Over the years speaking to a few people I know who worked for they branch I definitely got the impression they were working with less funding.

It makes sense too, look at the amount of resources that the other provinces have to throw around, surely that's not all made up of additional money from tickets & sponsorship seeing as the national team brings in the lion's share of the money.

CMOTDibbler

b.gud wrote: »

Yes and no. Yes the budget comes from the IRFU but at the end of the day having a centrally contracted player in your squad makes a big difference. The budget that the IRFU allocate to the provinces has to be used pay the players in the squad. Having a player on a central contract means that you can use the money that you would have been paying them elsewhere. either on a bigger squad or on better quality players. If you have centrally contracted players they don't decrease your budget to adjust for the players that are on a central contract

Currently all provinces have equal player budgets, I have no idea how much it is but for the purposes of a very simplistic example I'm gonna say it's €300k. Lets then assume that each of the provinces is looking to make a maximum squad of 30 players. Using the numbers posted by wp_rathead that would mean that to mean that:

Leinster have a budget of €300k to spend and need 22 players to make up a 30 man squad so they would be able to spend just over €13.5 k per player

Munster would need 26 players to make up the 30 man squad and would have €11.5 k per player

Ulster would need 27 players so would have €11.1 k to spend per player

Connacht need the full 30 so would only be able to spend €10k per player

Using the figures I've given the differences don't seem like much but once you start adding on zeros they'll start to make a big difference.

I know this. I also (as Bazzo says) don't believe the provinces have equal player budgets. I would be of the belief that there's less for Leinster because of the (a) high number of centrally contracted players and (b) the other earnings that Leinster generate from ticket sales, sponsorship etc.

Having a centrally contracted player doesn't necessarily mean that the IRFU are sponsoring the province to the amount of that player's salary.

Bazzo

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I know this. I also (as Bazzo says) don't believe the provinces have equal player budgets. I would be of the belief that there's less for Leinster because of the (a) high number of centrally contracted players and (b) the other earnings that Leinster generate from ticket sales, sponsorship etc.

Having a centrally contracted player doesn't necessarily mean that the IRFU are sponsoring the province to the amount of that player's salary.

Even though you're agreeing with my general point I'm actually saying that I'm pretty sure Connacht's player budget is lower than the other provinces :P. They're pretty mysterious about the figures but the only solid releases that I can find are that a)originally when we were designated as a "development province" our budget was half that of the other provinces and b) they increased funding to Connacht by 1 million a little over a year ago, the money was earmarked for strength & conditioning facilities.

I see Tommy O'Donnell has been released back to Munster for the weekend, I don't see why all 3 of Marmion, Bealham and Dillane won't be released if he has been.

Billysays no

OK, so I was never a Robbie fan. It wasn't that he wasn't a good player but he never seemed to trust the player outside him as I would have liked. So Robbie is leaving. That's disappointing. Are we not good enough would be a reaction.

But here's the kicker. Not only does he leave. He signs a central irfu contract. So the move costs Leinster nothing. But to really seal the deal he ensures Connacht get nothing for his release. He could have signed a provincial deal which would have meant Connacht would have got something out of this move but he chose not to do so.

So not only does he leave he gets a final fingers to Connacht in the process. I can't say why we deserve this from him but it seems his love affair with bod justifies screwing the folks who backed him. Goodbye Robbie.

Note this is not a loyalty issue. This is about crediting where you came from and saying thanks. Instead you ****ed us good. Enjoy your tanning sessions with your new friends.

galwaylad14

Billysays no wrote: »

OK, so I was never a Robbie fan. It wasn't that he wasn't a good player but he never seemed to trust the player outside him as I would have liked. So Robbie is leaving. That's disappointing. Are we not good enough would be a reaction.

But here's the kicker. Not only does he leave. He signs a central irfu contract. So the move costs Leinster nothing. But to really seal the deal he ensures Connacht get nothing for his release. He could have signed a provincial deal which would have meant Connacht would have got something out of this move but he chose not to do so.

So not only does he leave he gets a final fingers to Connacht in the process. I can't say why we deserve this from him but it seems his love affair with bod justifies screwing the folks who backed him. Goodbye Robbie.

Note this is not a loyalty issue. This is about crediting where you came from and saying thanks. Instead you ****ed us good. Enjoy your tanning sessions with your new friends.

I always just ignore this guys posts cos he hasn't got a clue and to be honest I think he just posts nonsense to get a reaction.

But on this occasion I'm going to reply just in case someone else might take this rubbish seriously.

What has been posted above is total crap. It makes no difference to Connacht that Robbie signed a central contract with Leinster. We wouldn't have got any money out of it either way. Had he chosen to stay with us he'd be on a central contract and wouldn't be costing us anything, this is now the case with Leinster which is just their good luck.

Robbie is a superb rugby player and has represented this province with great distinction. Its sickening to lose him but we need to face facts, he wants to play at a higher level than we can offer. He wants to further his own career and that's completely fair enough.

its_phil

Billysays no wrote: »

OK, so I was never a Robbie fan. It wasn't that he wasn't a good player but he never seemed to trust the player outside him as I would have liked. So Robbie is leaving. That's disappointing. Are we not good enough would be a reaction.

But here's the kicker. Not only does he leave. He signs a central irfu contract. So the move costs Leinster nothing. But to really seal the deal he ensures Connacht get nothing for his release. He could have signed a provincial deal which would have meant Connacht would have got something out of this move but he chose not to do so.

So not only does he leave he gets a final fingers to Connacht in the process. I can't say why we deserve this from him but it seems his love affair with bod justifies screwing the folks who backed him. Goodbye Robbie.

Note this is not a loyalty issue. This is about crediting where you came from and saying thanks. Instead you ****ed us good. Enjoy your tanning sessions with your new friends.

Well one thing for sure is that you weren't one of the folks backing him.

We better send some money to the Chiefs for Aki and Exeter for Muldowney by this logic.

its_phil

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Where do you think that budget comes from?

Where do you think the gate from the Sportsground comes. 100% of our budget doesn't come from the IRFU FFS. Our accounts are not the IRFU's accounts. If that's the way you're working it Connacht are working to pay off the Debt Star.

Billysays no

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I always just ignore this guys posts cos he hasn't got a clue and to be honest I think he just posts nonsense to get a reaction.

But on this occasion I'm going to reply just in case someone else might take this rubbish seriously.

What has been posted above is total crap. It makes no difference to Connacht that Robbie signed a central contract with Leinster. We wouldn't have got any money out of it either way. Had he chosen to stay with us he'd be on a central contract and wouldn't be costing us anything, this is now the case with Leinster which is just their good luck.

Robbie is a superb rugby player and has represented this province with great distinction. Its sickening to lose him but we need to face facts, he wants to play at a higher level than we can offer. He wants to further his own career and that's completely fair enough.

So let's push my utter crap. As you point out, which is 100% correct, if Robbie stayed at Connacht he would have been on central contract, so would have cost Connacht nothing, which would have released his wages to better the team. Did you think he even considered that. Ooooh that tan, how are you brian.

So galwaylad I am happy to be corrected. I hope you are happy to be corrected also

S12b

Billysays no wrote: »

OK, so I was never a Robbie fan. It wasn't that he wasn't a good player but he never seemed to trust the player outside him as I would have liked. So Robbie is leaving. That's disappointing. Are we not good enough would be a reaction.

But here's the kicker. Not only does he leave. He signs a central irfu contract. So the move costs Leinster nothing. But to really seal the deal he ensures Connacht get nothing for his release. He could have signed a provincial deal which would have meant Connacht would have got something out of this move but he chose not to do so.

So not only does he leave he gets a final fingers to Connacht in the process. I can't say why we deserve this from him but it seems his love affair with bod justifies screwing the folks who backed him. Goodbye Robbie.

Note this is not a loyalty issue. This is about crediting where you came from and saying thanks. Instead you ****ed us good. Enjoy your tanning sessions with your new friends.

I would love to speak my mind here.....but I'd receive a permanent ban from boards.ie

Billysays no

speak your mind. let me give you a starting point. robbie ****ed us. yes or no?

galwaylad14

Billysays no wrote: »

speak your mind. let me give you a starting point. robbie ****ed us. yes or no?

Absolutely not. He's leaving us for a better team because he can clearly play at a higher level. Happens in every professional sport

CMOTDibbler

its_phil wrote: »

Where do you think the gate from the Sportsground comes. 100% of our budget doesn't come from the IRFU FFS. Our accounts are not the IRFU's accounts. If that's the way you're working it Connacht are working to pay off the Debt Star.

OK, I'll rephrase it. Where do you think the majority of the budget comes from?

CMOTDibbler

Billysays no wrote: »

So let's push my utter crap. As you point out, which is 100% correct, if Robbie stayed at Connacht he would have been on central contract, so would have cost Connacht nothing, which would have released his wages to better the team. Did you think he even considered that. Ooooh that tan, how are you brian.

You also said he could have chosen a provincial contract with Leinster. That's utter nonsense. No player gets to choose what sort of contract they get, the IRFU decide if they want the player centrally contracted or not.

So this nonsense of Henshaw sticking it to Connacht by signing a central contract is beyond ridiculous. Do you spend your time trying to work out the worst case scenario from everything that happens in Connacht?

Mr Tickle

Billysays no wrote: »

He could have signed a provincial deal which would have meant Connacht would have got something out of this move but he chose not to do so.

Billysays no wrote: »

So let's push my utter crap. As you point out, which is 100% correct, if Robbie stayed at Connacht he would have been on central contract, so would have cost Connacht nothing, which would have released his wages to better the team.

So yeah your point about his wages being available makes sense.
explain how him signing a provincial deal would have benefited Connacht. As far as i can see it would have made no difference to for Connacht. Maybe it would have hurt Leinster but is that really where this was headed?

connachta

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Absolutely not. He's leaving us for a better team because he can clearly play at a higher level. Happens in every professional sport

Leinster would still be a better team because players like Henshaw McCarthy and Cronin are still going away from Connacht. That's scornful conservatism inherited from the developement province strategy. THIS HAS TO BE OVER

b.gud

Billysays no wrote: »

speak your mind. let me give you a starting point. robbie ****ed us. yes or no?

No. We don't own Robbie, this is professional sport not a slave trade.

I was working in a hotel bar before, when I started there I had no bar experience I learned everything there. After a couple of years I was quite an important member of staff as there were a lot of part timers and people who would only work there for a couple of months before leaving. I had grown quite comfortable in the job and decided I wanted to go elsewhere. When I told my manager she did everything she could to try to convince me to stay with the hotel, including ay rises or offering me the chance to work in different departments. After considering the options I decided that I wanted move on anyway because I wanted a change of scenery and a job that was closer to home for me. Does that mean I ****ed the hotel? No In any work environment there needs to be freedom of movement for a worker who feels like they need to move into a new role for whatever reason, and for Robbie it certainly sounds like it wasn't all rugby reasons

It's absolutely no different with professional rugby players

CMOTDibbler

connachta wrote: »

Leinster would still be a better team because players like Henshaw McCarthy and Cronin are still going away from Connacht. That's scornful conservatism inherited from the developement province strategy. THIS HAS TO BE OVER

Why? Because you used caps?

There's precious little air space given to the travellers going in the opposite direction:

Quinn Roux
Nathan White (international)
John Cooney
Dave McSharry
Ben Marshall
Jason Harris-Wright
Matt Healy
Craig Ronaldson

All came through Leinster or Leinster schools. I'm sure I'm leaving some out like Kyle Tonetti, but that's a pretty impressive list right there.

MarinersBlues

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why? Because you used caps?

There's precious little air space given to the travellers going in the opposite direction:

Quinn Roux
Nathan White (international)
John Cooney
Dave McSharry
Ben Marshall
Jason Harris-Wright
Matt Healy
Craig Ronaldson

All came through Leinster or Leinster schools. I'm sure I'm leaving some out like Kyle Tonetti, but that's a pretty impressive list right there.

FFS, how many times does it have to be pointed out that these weren't players Leinster were building a team around.
It is the cherry picking by Leinster vs the windfall gathering by Connacht.

They are all fine players and are now VERY important for Connacht.
Leinster didn't want them or weren't offering them game time.
We wanted/needed Cronin and McCarthy at the time.

I have avoided this so far but hjere's my 2c:
We probably don't NEED Henshaw on the pitch, but we do need a home grown international star to push on the development of the province.

If the IRFU continue to put as much effort into us as they seem to have done with Robbie then this could work out quiet well as there is plenty of talent coming through. It's just a case of waiting for another Connacht born man to stand up and become a star.
Buckley,Carty, SOB2 I'm looking at ye.

ClanofLams

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why? Because you used caps?

There's precious little air space given to the travellers going in the opposite direction:

Quinn Roux
Nathan White (international)
John Cooney
Dave McSharry
Ben Marshall
Jason Harris-Wright
Matt Healy
Craig Ronaldson

All came through Leinster or Leinster schools. I'm sure I'm leaving some out like Kyle Tonetti, but that's a pretty impressive list right there.

I don't agree with Connachta, it's up to Connacht to convince guys to stay, Leinster should and will do what's best for them.

Having said that with the exception of Nathan White, all the players on your list were surplus to requirements at Leinster. Ronaldson and Healy were playing AIL. It's not the same as established internationals who are vital first team members leaving.

Edit - Mariners got there first.

Robbo

wp_rathead wrote: »

When you consider Centrally Contracted players are basically "free" for their respective provinces I gotta say it is pretty disheartening seeing the current list from a Connacht POV:

Leinster have:
Cian Healy
Robbie Henshaw
Rob Kearney
Johnny Sexton
Jamie Heaslip
Sean O’Brien
Devin Toner
Mike Ross

Munster have:
Keith Earls
Conor Murray
Donnacha Ryan
Peter O’Mahoney

Ulster have:
Tommy Bowe
Andrew Trimble
Rory Best

Every time I see one of those lists, I still expect to see Donncha O'Callaghan there as the WTF option.

its_phil wrote: »

Where do you think the gate from the Sportsground comes. 100% of our budget doesn't come from the IRFU FFS. Our accounts are not the IRFU's accounts. If that's the way you're working it Connacht are working to pay off the Debt Star.

Bonus points for spreading the word about the Debt Star. By rights, we should send down a low loader and some lads with consaws to reappropriate their West Stand. We'll get better use of it.

former total

ClanofLams wrote: »

I don't agree with Connachta, it's up to Connacht to convince guys to stay, Leinster should and will do what's best for them.

Having said that with the exception of Nathan White, all the players on your list were surplus to requirements at Leinster. Ronaldson and Healy were playing AIL. It's not the same as established internationals who are vital first team members leaving.

Exactly. Leinster are not cherry-picking players; the players are cherry-picking Leinster (and Munster, although Connacht fans don't seem too gutted about Keatley anymore...).

These guys leave to play in a better team and to win medals. If Connacht maintain the upward curve of this season, then that's the best way to retain key players.

Zzippy

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why? Because you used caps?

There's precious little air space given to the travellers going in the opposite direction:

Quinn Roux Loaned to Connacht to get gametime, even with injury crisis he wasn't getting it at Leinster
Nathan White (international) Only offered a 1 year contract at Leinster to warm the bench for Mike Ross. Took a 3 year contract at Connacht. Became an international long after he joined Connacht.
John Cooney Loaned to Connacht same as Quinn Roux, behind Reddan, Boss and even McGrath at Leinster
Dave McSharry Released from Leinster and was playing for UCD at the time when Connacht gave him a chance
Ben Marshall Not exactly first or second choice at Leinster, they didn't try too hard to hang onto him
Jason Harris-Wright Released by Leinster after Sean Cronin joined, signed for Bristol, then for Connacht
Matt Healy Was never a Leinster player FFS, he was signed from Lansdowne in the AIL where he had been ignored by Leinster
Craig Ronaldson Also was never a Leinster player, also picked up from Lansdowne in the AIL

All came through Leinster or Leinster schools. I'm sure I'm leaving some out like Kyle Tonetti, but that's a pretty impressive list right there.

It's not really an impressive list. Not one of them was first choice or in most cases remotely near it for Leinster. But we're supposed to be grateful and let ye cherrypick our first teamers, right? :rolleyes:

Robbo

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why? Because you used caps?

There's precious little air space given to the travellers going in the opposite direction:

Quinn Roux
Nathan White (international)
John Cooney
Dave McSharry
Ben Marshall
Jason Harris-Wright
Matt Healy
Craig Ronaldson

All came through Leinster or Leinster schools. I'm sure I'm leaving some out like Kyle Tonetti, but that's a pretty impressive list right there.

The situation is far more grave than that. Far more players are implicated in being products of Leinster than is commonly know.

For example, Johnny O'Connor once went on a school trip to the National Wax Museum. Which as we all know is in Leinster and has close links to their sub-sub-adjacent-sub-over-a-bit Academy.

Ray Ofisa came to Connacht but where did he first land in the country? Dublin airport, that's where. Leinster again, y'see.

There's dozens more that are green on the outside but blue in the middle that *they* don't want you to know about, we're through the looking glass here people.

sfbdqc

Zzippy wrote: »

It's not really an impressive list. Not one of them was first choice or in most cases remotely near it for Leinster. But we're supposed to be grateful and let ye cherrypick our first teamers, right? :rolleyes:

Henshaw chose Leinster against the wishes of basically everyone, yet we are cherry picking him. He didn't want to stay, should Leinster just ignore him??

wp_rathead

I'll admit I laughed at Healy, Jason Harris Wright, Ronaldson and McSharry being on that list CMOTDibbler
In that case Leinster took Damien Browne of us

CMOTDibbler

Zzippy wrote: »

It's not really an impressive list. Not one of them was first choice or in most cases remotely near it for Leinster. But we're supposed to be grateful and let ye cherrypick our first teamers, right? :rolleyes:

I didn't say they were Leinster players. Did you not read ALL my post :rolleyes:

I could discuss at length the failings in the academy system that means quality players like Ronaldson, Healy, McSharry and many, many more get left out and may or may not get picked up by somebody else or anybody else.

But really, I was just pointing out to Connachta that there is a good relationship between Leinster and Connacht that sees players going in both directions.

btw John Cooney was not behind McGrath when he was loaned to Connacht. For some reason, MOC didn't rate him even though Joe Schmidt did. I personally would like him back as I always thought he was quality.

Billysays no

b.gud wrote: »

No. We don't own Robbie, this is professional sport not a slave trade.

I was working in a hotel bar before, when I started there I had no bar experience I learned everything there. After a couple of years I was quite an important member of staff as there were a lot of part timers and people who would only work there for a couple of months before leaving. I had grown quite comfortable in the job and decided I wanted to go elsewhere. When I told my manager she did everything she could to try to convince me to stay with the hotel, including ay rises or offering me the chance to work in different departments. After considering the options I decided that I wanted move on anyway because I wanted a change of scenery and a job that was closer to home for me. Does that mean I ****ed the hotel? No In any work environment there needs to be freedom of movement for a worker who feels like they need to move into a new role for whatever reason, and for Robbie it certainly sounds like it wasn't all rugby reasons

It's absolutely no different with professional rugby players

sorry b.gud. your analogy is not correct. indeed i cant even relate it to the robbie situation. if robbie stayed with connacht he would have been on a central contract (as he now is at leinster). this would have freed up his wages to buy new talent for connacht while still having him on board. so he didn't just leave. he said he didnt believe in the connacht project and wasn't willing to invest in it by providing more funding to connacht by staying. just a gullible young child. bod, did you do well.

Bazzo

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why? Because you used caps?

There's precious little air space given to the travellers going in the opposite direction:

Quinn Roux
Nathan White (international)
John Cooney
Dave McSharry
Ben Marshall
Jason Harris-Wright
Matt Healy
Craig Ronaldson

All came through Leinster or Leinster schools. I'm sure I'm leaving some out like Kyle Tonetti, but that's a pretty impressive list right there.

I'm staying out of the Robbie drama but AFAIK Ronaldson and Healy were actually recruited from the AIL, weren't they?

sfbdqc

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

btw John Cooney was not behind McGrath when he was loaned to Connacht. For some reason, MOC didn't rate him even though Joe Schmidt did. I personally would like him back as I always thought he was quality.

He was, MCGrath was playing ahead of him.. although Cooney was just returning from injury.

CMOTDibbler

Robbo wrote: »

The situation is far more grave than that. Far more players are implicated in being products of Leinster than is commonly know.

Don't forget Fionn Carr or for that matter AJ McGinty

But I didn't even bring up the lads who were born in Athlone like Jack Carty, Danny Qualter and of course Robbie Henshaw or Laois like Eoghan Masterson. It does go deeper than you think, it's insidious really

b.gud

Billysays no wrote: »

sorry b.gud. your analogy is not correct. indeed i cant even relate it to the robbie situation. if robbie stayed with connacht he would have been on a central contract (as he now is at leinster). this would have freed up his wages to buy new talent for connacht while still having him on board. so he didn't just leave. he said he didnt believe in the connacht project and wasn't willing to invest in it by providing more funding to connacht by staying. just a gullible young child. bod, did you do well.

If you can point me to where he said this I will drive anywhere in the country today and personally hand you €1,000

b.gud

b.gud wrote: »

If you can point me to where he said this I will drive anywhere in the country today and personally hand you €1,000

Actually I'll go further than that I'll fly anywhere in the world to hand you the money