Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

S12b

S12b wrote: »

Jesus that's huge......as good as Ronaldson has been for us a midfield of Aki and Henshaw has the potential to win you a game on their own.

And with Carty injured we might finally get Ronaldson at 10 with our first choice backline of Healy, Aki, Henshaw, Poolman and TOH....bring on the tries!

Billysays no wrote: »

and your opinion of dropping ronaldson (our penalty kicker) was smart. go robbie. he can do everything. if you don't understand the importance of individual players within the combined team, so much so that they can be replaced by robbie everywhere, then go you s12b. you obviously missed most of our season

I know you're not a fan of "facts" Ouncer but the above is what I posted.....literally the opposite of what you claimed I said.

Billysays no

S12b wrote: »

I know you're not a fan of "facts" Ouncer but the above is what I posted.....literally the opposite of what you claimed I said.

error i acknowledge.

passionate i be

Your Face

I hope Connacht beat Edinburgh.

former total

former total wrote: »

If Henshaw had any doubt that he's made the right decision in leaving, the last two pages should reassure him nicely.

I think some people took this post more seriously than I intended them to, it was just a little poke at the lunacy of a very small minority. Sorry about that

wp_rathead

Billysays no wrote: »

error i acknowledge.

passionate i be

Uh oh, The Flounce has gone full Yoda

Crimsonforce

Brian o'Driscoll and Liam Tolland on off the ball last night calling for Matt Healy to be involved in the match day 22. Finally more people in the media saying he should be involved..

Bazzo

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Brian o'Driscoll and Liam Tolland on off the ball last night calling for Matt Healy to be involved in the match day 22. Finally more people in the media saying he should be involved..

Healy almost certainly deserves a place in the extended squad and I'd have taken either of himself, Gilroy or even Scholes ahead of McFadden but don't expect him to actually get the nod any time soon. If you bring it up in the Ireland page people will just say he's a crap defender(I don't actually think Healy is that bad a defender) and point to Fionn Carr for reasons he shouldn't be involved.

Crimsonforce

Bazzo wrote: »

Healy almost certainly deserves a place in the extended squad and I'd have taken either of himself, Gilroy or even Scholes ahead of McFadden but don't expect him to actually get the nod any time soon. If you bring it up in the Ireland page people will just say he's a crap defender(I don't actually think Healy is that bad a defender) and point to Fionn Carr for reasons he shouldn't be involved.

Defense can be trained to be improved but you can't train someone to have that type of speed or creativity. I agree , he def deserves a run.

former total

Bazzo wrote: »

Healy almost certainly deserves a place in the extended squad and I'd have taken either of himself, Gilroy or even Scholes ahead of McFadden but don't expect him to actually get the nod any time soon. If you bring it up in the Ireland page people will just say he's a crap defender(I don't actually think Healy is that bad a defender) and point to Fionn Carr for reasons he shouldn't be involved.

I think all we can definitely say about Healy is that he's unproven. We know what he can do with the ball in hand and space in front of him, I've seen him have some absolute clangers in defence, but I probably don't see enough of Connacht to form a fully balanced opinion on him. How often he's shown real ability against genuinely top-class teams, I just don't know.

The one thing I do know for sure is that scoring a hat-trick against Zebre will have cut absolutely no ice with the Irish coaches. Healy is, in many ways, in the same situation as Zebo was two years ago - scoring tries for fun in the league while the internationals were away. And Joe actually came out and said "meh"* in relation to Zebo, I'd say he's thinking similar about Healy.

But Connacht have a run of three interpros coming up, and while Leinster will be weakened, Ulster and Munster will be at full strength. This is when the likes of Healy and TOH will have to show what they can do; if they can perform in those games against their direct rivals, then there's no reason they can't get a shot at South Africa.

*paraphrasing, obviously

galwaylad14

If we have Robbie available then he has to play. He just brings so much quality to the team that it would be madness not to pick him. Where to pick him is a conundrum alright though. I'm not buying into any of this resting players craic though. We're absolutely flying, facing into a huge game in terms of top 4 qualification and we have two weeks off after this game. Play the strongest possible team and give them next week off.

I think McGinty has to stay at 10. He's playing well there and Ronaldson hasn't really played there at all this season. I'd also leave Tiernan at full back, he's been brilliant there all season and I don't think Robbie is really any better than him back there anyway. So that means Robbie is playing in the centre. Aki has been our been our best player so he has to play. So I'd pair Aki and Henshaw and that unfotunately means leaving out our goal kicker Ronaldson which is a big call but I think there's no doubt that as a pure centre Henshaw is obviously better than Craig and I think given McGinty's excellent kicking against Zebre and his good performance again against Ospreys that his confidence will be sky high and he can fill that kicking role successfully.

Let's be realistic here as well, although he's been okay lately it's not as if Ronaldson is exactly Dan Carter at the goal kicking, I'd be fairly confident McGinty can match Ronaldson's percentages.

If Niyi isn't fit then Poolman comes in there for him.

b.gud

former total wrote: »

I think all we can definitely say about Healy is that he's unproven. We know what he can do with the ball in hand and space in front of him, I've seen him have some absolute clangers in defence, but I probably don't see enough of Connacht to form a fully balanced opinion on him. How often he's shown real ability against genuinely top-class teams, I just don't know.

The one thing I do know for sure is that scoring a hat-trick against Zebre will have cut absolutely no ice with the Irish coaches. Healy is, in many ways, in the same situation as Zebo was two years ago - scoring tries for fun in the league while the internationals were away. And Joe actually came out and said "meh"* in relation to Zebo, I'd say he's thinking similar about Healy.

But Connacht have a run of three interpros coming up, and while Leinster will be weakened, Ulster and Munster will be at full strength. This is when the likes of Healy and TOH will have to show what they can do; if they can perform in those games against their direct rivals, then there's no reason they can't get a shot at South Africa.

*paraphrasing, obviously

Funnily enough before I read your comment I had just been thinking that Healy will end up a bit like Zebo, as in the kind of player that a lot of people will call for in the team because he's exciting but there will be some elements of his game that Joe won't like. He'll end up around the camp for a couple of seasons before he gets any real game time, if he gets it at all.

The one slight correction I'd have about your comment is that Healy has had a good strike rate for the past 2 seasons, not solely when the internationals are away. I think his hat trick against Zebre has just given him a bit more recognition in the wider media.

irishgrover

former total wrote: »

I think all we can definitely say about Healy is that he's unproven. We know what he can do with the ball in hand and space in front of him, I've seen him have some absolute clangers in defence, but I probably don't see enough of Connacht to form a fully balanced opinion on him. How often he's shown real ability against genuinely top-class teams, I just don't know.

The one thing I do know for sure is that scoring a hat-trick against Zebre will have cut absolutely no ice with the Irish coaches. Healy is, in many ways, in the same situation as Zebo was two years ago - scoring tries for fun in the league while the internationals were away. And Joe actually came out and said "meh"* in relation to Zebo, I'd say he's thinking similar about Healy.

But Connacht have a run of three interpros coming up, and while Leinster will be weakened, Ulster and Munster will be at full strength. This is when the likes of Healy and TOH will have to show what they can do; if they can perform in those games against their direct rivals, then there's no reason they can't get a shot at South Africa.

*paraphrasing, obviously

I kind of agree with your thought process but kind of disagree with your conclusion...
From an Irish perspective the 6 nations is all but over. When was the last time there was such a good opportunity to blood players? Why wait another 6+ months.
Also, as you say (and respectfully), you have not seen Healy (and presumably TOH) play that much this year. There are part of a team that are currently top of the league and have scored more points than any other team (and with respect to our kicking - it's been relatively ****e)
If I remember correctly (and I could be corrected) I think Healy had a bit of a nightmare game against Ulster on dec 26th and I think that coincided with one of Joe's very rare appearances in Galway, so that probably influenced.
So from an Ireland perspective, I think they (and other potentials) should absolutely be given a shot now, rather than later..

calico77

irishgrover wrote: »

If I remember correctly (and I could be corrected) I think Healy had a bit of a nightmare game against Ulster on dec 26th and I think that coincided with one of Joe's very rare appearances in Galway, so that probably influenced.

There wont be a single game that JS is unaware of or not seen. Just because he doesn't go to every single game doesn't mean he isnt watching.

irishgrover

calico77 wrote: »

There wont be a single game that JS is unaware of or not seen. Just because he doesn't go to every single game doesn't mean he isnt watching.

agreed, but think that the point is still valid (assuming my memory of the game is valid)

S12b

former total wrote: »

I think all we can definitely say about Healy is that he's unproven. We know what he can do with the ball in hand and space in front of him, I've seen him have some absolute clangers in defence, but I probably don't see enough of Connacht to form a fully balanced opinion on him. How often he's shown real ability against genuinely top-class teams, I just don't know.

The one thing I do know for sure is that scoring a hat-trick against Zebre will have cut absolutely no ice with the Irish coaches. Healy is, in many ways, in the same situation as Zebo was two years ago - scoring tries for fun in the league while the internationals were away. And Joe actually came out and said "meh"* in relation to Zebo, I'd say he's thinking similar about Healy.

But Connacht have a run of three interpros coming up, and while Leinster will be weakened, Ulster and Munster will be at full strength. This is when the likes of Healy and TOH will have to show what they can do; if they can perform in those games against their direct rivals, then there's no reason they can't get a shot at South Africa.

*paraphrasing, obviously

Agree 100%, I was thinking about this Sunday and as you say hat tricks against Zebre are all well and good but what Healy really needs to force his way into an Ireland squad is to scream in a for a few huge tries in our big games coming up.....a match winning try where he leaves McFadden for dead on the outside before stepping in and leaving the covering Rob Kearney on his arse would do for a start.

His performace against Ospreys was excellent as well. His try was a brilliant finish but outside of that, he created Aki's try and was a constant threat with the ball, every time he got the ball in his hands you felt something was on.

typhoony

Billysays no wrote: »

i do find it interesting who you would wish to also discard. So we currently have discarded one of aki or ronaldson and then obviously toh. Well honestly screw you. These guys have been the backbone of our team and the absolute nerve of you to suggest that a dude who has played very limited minutes for connacht has a RIGHT to his place after where our players have put us in the pro12 is simply disgusting. It undermines our players, it undermines our team. Of course you are welcome to undermine me, but I find your opinion such a betrayal of all the hard work that our lads have done. Are we all so easily replaced. You must be a joy to have in your own workplace. We can get rid of him. Hear good news about somebody else. Absolutely disgusted the way you are willing to simply let the players who have served us all year go for a 'better' player

If any of those players are carrying niggling injuries which is almost 100% likely and we can use Henshaw in the team for this match and also at the same time help boost our chances then yes he should be picked in the team

but it will be interesting when the season is concluding and we have cup type matches what will Pat Lam decide to do with Henshaw use him or lose him.

to sum it up it's a combination of smart use of available players and loyalty to the players that have contributed throughout the season

b.gud

S12b wrote: »

Agree 100%, I was thinking about this Sunday and as you say hat tricks against Zebre are all well and good but what Healy really needs to force his way into an Ireland squad is to scream in a for a few huge tries in our big games coming up.....a match winning try where he leaves McFadden for dead on the outside before stepping in and leaving the covering Rob Kearney on his arse would do for a start.

His performace against Ospreys was excellent as well. His try was a brilliant finish but outside of that, he created Aki's try and was a constant threat with the ball, every time he got the ball in his hands you felt something was on.

It hasn't helped Marmion all that much

typhoony

b.gud wrote: »

It hasn't helped Marmion all that much

forever known as the Marmi Shimmy

sfbdqc

b.gud wrote: »

It hasn't helped Marmion all that much

if you don't do the basics to standard..

its_phil

To be fair, BOD was calling for Healy's inclusion the Friday of the France game which was before the hat trick

Bazzo

former total wrote: »

I think all we can definitely say about Healy is that he's unproven. We know what he can do with the ball in hand and space in front of him, I've seen him have some absolute clangers in defence, but I probably don't see enough of Connacht to form a fully balanced opinion on him. How often he's shown real ability against genuinely top-class teams, I just don't know.

The one thing I do know for sure is that scoring a hat-trick against Zebre will have cut absolutely no ice with the Irish coaches. Healy is, in many ways, in the same situation as Zebo was two years ago - scoring tries for fun in the league while the internationals were away. And Joe actually came out and said "meh"* in relation to Zebo, I'd say he's thinking similar about Healy.

But Connacht have a run of three interpros coming up, and while Leinster will be weakened, Ulster and Munster will be at full strength. This is when the likes of Healy and TOH will have to show what they can do; if they can perform in those games against their direct rivals, then there's no reason they can't get a shot at South Africa.

*paraphrasing, obviously

To be fair a lot of people have been calling for his inclusion since a long long time before the Zebre game.

He's unproven in an international setup but he can only play what's in front of him, if you ask me that merits a call up to the extended squad. I agree, hopefully he does well in the interpros and gets the nod.

connachta

Very good news everyone!
www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/ult...land-debut-1.2554628

S12b

connachta wrote: »

Very good news everyone!
www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/ult...land-debut-1.2554628

Great news, bar Masterson at 8 (McKeon is an able replacement), it looks like we will be absolutely full strength on Friday night!!

connachta

The better Connacht is, the harder it is for players individually.

SoB 2.0, Naoupu, AhYou, Roux, Marshall, Niyi, Poolman/Ronaldson may well be dropped or benched altogether .

b.gud

Edinburgh v Connacht
At BT Murrayfield, 7.35pm. Live on BBC ALBA/TG4
Referee: Ben Whitehouse ( 19th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Lloyd Linton, Cammy Rudkin (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Paul Minto (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)

connachta

Ben...he wasn't bad against Munster and Scarlets...

oneofakind32

former total wrote: »

I think all we can definitely say about Healy is that he's unproven. We know what he can do with the ball in hand and space in front of him, I've seen him have some absolute clangers in defence, but I probably don't see enough of Connacht to form a fully balanced opinion on him. How often he's shown real ability against genuinely top-class teams, I just don't know.

The one thing I do know for sure is that scoring a hat-trick against Zebre will have cut absolutely no ice with the Irish coaches. Healy is, in many ways, in the same situation as Zebo was two years ago - scoring tries for fun in the league while the internationals were away. And Joe actually came out and said "meh"* in relation to Zebo, I'd say he's thinking similar about Healy.

But Connacht have a run of three interpros coming up, and while Leinster will be weakened, Ulster and Munster will be at full strength. This is when the likes of Healy and TOH will have to show what they can do; if they can perform in those games against their direct rivals, then there's no reason they can't get a shot at South Africa.

*paraphrasing, obviously

The first time I took notice of Healy was against Leinster in the Sports Ground, 2 years ago. Leinster peppered his wing with highballs and he took them all brilliantly. Fionn Carr scored a nice try in that game and as we all know went on to to a glittering Ireland career????

BOD had huge praise for Healy on Off the Ball last night. He said that Healy is a game breaker which there is no doubt that he is. The way he can crack open a defense with a well timed kick and 9 times out of 10 manages to regather is extraordinary. He does it time and time again.

The problem is, we all know Schmitt values defense above all. Connacht while having scored the most try in the league have also conceded a lot of tries. Ireland has a lot of talent on the wings. Over the last couple of years I would have said Bowe and Trimble are Ireland 2 first choice wingers without question. They have the size and physicality needed to be wingers at international level, however I thought Trimble wasn't quite as sharp as he used to be. He had a one on one with his opposite winger at one stage and couldn't finish it off. I think Healy would have finished in this situation. Zebo and Earls while they are skillful players who can be game breakers are often found lacking defense.

I think Healy will get a call up for the SA tour, he deserves a chance to prove himself. I think he is on par with Zebo and Earls at this stage.

Lets not forget Dannie Poolman. He is an excellent finisher and has the size that Healy lacks. If he gets a run of games and starts score trys again, he could be in the running for the SA tour also. He should be Irish eligible now, having debuted for Connacht in October '12.

b.gud

connachta wrote: »

Ben...he wasn't bad against Munster and Scarlets...

One of the guys in the Craggy Island had the stat that we have a 100% win rate in games he refs

connachta

oneofakind32 wrote: »

Lets not forget Dannie Poolman. He is an excellent finisher and has the size that Healy lacks. If he gets a run of games and starts score trys again, he could be in the running for the SA tour also. He should be Irish eligible now, having debuted for Connacht in October '12.

I'm a big fan too ...

Bazzo

b.gud wrote: »

One of the guys in the Craggy Island had the stat that we have a 100% win rate in games he refs

Lifetime parking spot reserved right beside the changing rooms in the sportsground.

freyners

I rate him as a ref. Talks well to to players and is consistent in his approach. Even if we have a 7 point handicap with him on the field

If he tried to be less like Nigel owens I reckon he will be in the middle for Heineken cup and internationals before the year is out

wp_rathead

b.gud wrote: »

One of the guys in the Craggy Island had the stat that we have a 100% win rate in games he refs

Maybe in Pro12
He was in charge of Newcastle Away this season when we got thumped (albeit at height of that ludicrous injury crisis)
Gave Newcastle 2 pen trys - first one was meant be taken very harsh as Newcastle lad took quick tap inside the 5m mark and Connacht player penalised for not retreating
Also he disallowed a Masterson try for double movement

That said, like others, I like him as a ref

connachta

Why on earth this game isn't on TG4 player yet

Robbo

Interesting words from Pat on the Craggy Island podcast in relation to prep for the Embra game. They'd started their analysis for it last week and very little of the sessions this week are going to be on the pitch.

Seems like they're putting a lot of effort into cracking the second tightest defence in the league.

its_phil

Bib logic pointing to Carr starting for TOH and Ronaldson and AJ both starting too. Also, Rodney and Mul. Tom also not in a bib.

S12b

its_phil wrote: »

Bib logic pointing to Carr starting for TOH and Ronaldson and AJ both starting too. Also, Rodney and Mul. Tom also not in a bib.

Are those the photos from the indoor session in NUIG on Monday? I really don't think we can read too much into those.....

ClanofLams

its_phil wrote: »

Bib logic pointing to Carr starting for TOH and Ronaldson and AJ both starting too. Also, Rodney and Mul. Tom also not in a bib.

Hopefully that logic isn't right this week so...

connachta

that's impossible. Lam pointed out that Irish players will be released and integrated to the training squad quite late (probably t'morrow I guess).

Billysays no

galwaylad14 wrote: »

If we have Robbie available then he has to play. He just brings so much quality to the team that it would be madness not to pick him. Where to pick him is a conundrum alright though. I'm not buying into any of this resting players craic though. We're absolutely flying, facing into a huge game in terms of top 4 qualification and we have two weeks off after this game. Play the strongest possible team and give them next week off.

I think McGinty has to stay at 10. He's playing well there and Ronaldson hasn't really played there at all this season. I'd also leave Tiernan at full back, he's been brilliant there all season and I don't think Robbie is really any better than him back there anyway. So that means Robbie is playing in the centre. Aki has been our been our best player so he has to play. So I'd pair Aki and Henshaw and that unfotunately means leaving out our goal kicker Ronaldson which is a big call but I think there's no doubt that as a pure centre Henshaw is obviously better than Craig and I think given McGinty's excellent kicking against Zebre and his good performance again against Ospreys that his confidence will be sky high and he can fill that kicking role successfully.

Let's be realistic here as well, although he's been okay lately it's not as if Ronaldson is exactly Dan Carter at the goal kicking, I'd be fairly confident McGinty can match Ronaldson's percentages.

If Niyi isn't fit then Poolman comes in there for him.

I agree with all this, bar one thing. Pat has put craig and bundee as his centre partnership of choice all season (when available). As such they have a really good working knowledge of each others game and how they work together. Yes Robbie is a fine international player. So can he simply step in and have the same understanding? And can he be put at fullback without undermining all Tiernan has done this season?

While I have openly not been a fan of Robbie over many years as the season rolls to a close (I don't believe Robbie will be released this weekend after two bruising encounters that he has played the full 80 minutes) I would continue to support an Aki/Ronaldson partnership that Pat has supported all year. I believe a partnership that has worked all season (with Craig adding as a penalty kicker) adds more value than what Robbie can contribute.

It has been my bone of contention (and the majority on the forum do not agree with me on this) that Robbie defines his own parameters on how he plays in whatever position he plays in. It annoys me deeply that his play in connacht is nothing like the fast paced style that all our other players play. And I understand this is normally not how he plays (please don't post that munster gif again, a once off, which if he did consistently fits so well with connacht principles).

There is the argument that we score tries and we leak tries. Totally valid point. But we can't have one player doing the Joe defensive style while all other players play what connacht play. Its either one or the other. So it annoys me watching Robbie in connacht. He plays the international Joe game. There are another 14 players on the same team playing a totally different game.

Eventually, my point. We have subscribed to a type of play. It has delivered for us. Either we stick with it or don't.

Expect the likes of Dillane, Marmion, White back for Friday as they have had limited game time.

One thing I will detract is that, while the Scotland and Italy games are essentially irrelevant, it would be of use for the likes of Denis, Matt and Tiernan to play in a big stadium of people so they understand the atmosphere and the pressure. I would suggest that the Emerging Ireland team is now wasted on them. They have emerged. They just need to be selected.

CMOTDibbler

Billysays no wrote: »

It has been my bone of contention (and the majority on the forum do not agree with me on this) that Robbie defines his own parameters on how he plays in whatever position he plays in. It annoys me deeply that his play in connacht is nothing like the fast paced style that all our other players play. And I understand this is normally not how he plays (please don't post that munster gif again, a once off, which if he did consistently fits so well with connacht principles).

There is the argument that we score tries and we leak tries. Totally valid point. But we can't have one player doing the Joe defensive style while all other players play what connacht play. Its either one or the other. So it annoys me watching Robbie in connacht. He plays the international Joe game. There are another 14 players on the same team playing a totally different game.

Eventually, my point. We have subscribed to a type of play. It has delivered for us. Either we stick with it or don't.

How can your style of play without the ball affect your style of play with it?

Genuine question.

porterbelly

its_phil wrote: »

Bib logic pointing to Carr starting for TOH and Ronaldson and AJ both starting too. Also, Rodney and Mul. Tom also not in a bib.

Wouldn't be reading too much into that on a Monday

It was only an indoor session anyway, probably skills based

Carr won't be playing

its_phil

porterbelly wrote: »

Wouldn't be reading too much into that on a Monday

It was only an indoor session anyway, probably skills based

Carr won't be playing

It's just bib logic. It doesn't always make sense

Billysays no

wp_rathead wrote: »

Uh oh, The Flounce has gone full Yoda

you know wprathead I'm a mental gob****e. So don't be pointing out the obvious

GubMan

hen will dillane and marmion be scooped up by Munster/Leinster?

Bazzo

GubMan wrote: »

hen will dillane and marmion be scooped up by Munster/Leinster?

sydthebeat

GubMan wrote: »

hen will dillane and marmion be scooped up by Munster/Leinster?

for Dillane we have James Ryan
for Marmion we have Luke McGrath

edit: im obviously talking about leinster

MarinersBlues

Marmion has signed for the next two years.

I would imagine they will be sorting out Dillane soon.
Hopefully with the support of the IRFU.

Munster have always produced decent second rows.
No need to clog up that line of production.

porterbelly

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Marmion has signed for the next two years.

I would imagine they will be sorting out Dillane soon.
Hopefully with the support of the IRFU.

Munster have always produced decent second rows.
No need to clog up that line of production.

He's one of 4 Connacht players Munster have been in contact with for 2017/18

They're already getting Heenan

dropping_bombs

porterbelly wrote: »

He's one of 4 Connacht players Munster have been in contact with for 2017/18

They're already getting Heenan

Who are the other 2, Aki and McCartney?

Clegg

Are there actually any up and coming Munster 2nd rows? In the senior squad there's only Foley, Ryan and Chisholm, none of whom are top class and only one who is actually any use. Been very disappointed in Foley since his comeback and Chisholm hasn't impressed much. They need a decent lock from somewhere. Wouldn't be surprised if they try and get a lock from another province.