Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

Billysays no

connachta wrote: »

I don't buy the "tired squad " alibi

Stats for pro12 (I know some players appeared in Ireland or Challenge games, but still give us a proper idea)

1520 potential minutes since September (19 rounds)

1) Buckley 1054
2) McCartney 999
3) Bealham 719
4) Dillane 412
5) Muldowey 1101
6) SOB 331
7) McKeon 654
8 ) Muldoon 1372
9) Marmion 923
10) Carty 849
11) Healy 1369
12) Robb 242
13) Aki 1509!!!!
14) Niyi 577
15) Henshaw 351 + 9 X 80 with Ireland = less than 1100

Aki is cleary overused. Healy and Muldoon on a lesser extent. The 12 other players likely to go for Munster were used less than 60 minutes per game average..No excuse, roll on the red army!!!!

Connachta, currently opening up the job of statistics coach. By my figures you have the job

connachta

Billysays no wrote: »

Connachta, currently opening up the job of statistics coach. By my figures you have the job

semi-ironic I guess, but I still take it;)

ClanofLams

neelia11 wrote: »

Well ive seen plenty of people on facebook especially raving about the way connacht play, and some on here too. Bottom line is they blew big leads twice. Playing exhilarating rugby doesnt change that. They deserve praise for how they play but equally the reality is they lost because they refused to make a percentage play on 2-3 occasions.

Well it's irrelevant what people on Facebook or on here say too, Connacht supporters or not. The attitude of the squad is all that matters and I would be confident they weren't patting themselves on the back in Grenoble or College Road this week.

MarinersBlues

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/0413/781468-matt-healy-selected-for-ireland-training-camp/

Healy in the Irish training camp along with Quinn Roux.

Bazzo

MarinersBlues wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/0413/781468-matt-healy-selected-for-ireland-training-camp/

Healy in the Irish training camp along with Quinn Roux.

Great news for Matt.

Buckley misses out again unfortunately.

MarinersBlues

Bazzo wrote: »

Great news for Matt.

Buckley misses out again unfortunately.

I totally missed that!

That's shocking. He is playing unbelievable stuff and the Connacht pack as a whole were savage against Leinster.

Utopia Parkway

Hard to believe that Buckley can't make a 45 man training squad. He must be wondering what he has to do at this stage.

b.gud

Bazzo wrote: »

Great news for Matt.

Buckley misses out again unfortunately.

It's obviously because he always .... ah
Or that one time he.... erm
Nope I've got nothing

ki

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Hard to believe that Buckley can't make a 45 man training squad. He must be wondering what he has to do at this stage.

In recent interview Buckley acknowledged that his height is probably holding him back a little, and said he has worked on other parts of his game to compensate.

connachta

b.gud wrote: »

It's obviously because he always .... ah
Or that one time he.... erm
Nope I've got nothing

He barely has made 1 mistake since Edinburgh home defeat last season...

ClanofLams

It beggars belief really. Usually you can see the logic behind Schmidts selections even if you don't agree but this just makes zero sense. Cian Healy was one of the best looseheads in the world at one time but that's a long while ago now and to be frank, he is fortunate to be making the Leinster squad at present. He has no business going to South Africa. Kilcoyne is a good player but I would have thought it reasonably clear that Buckley should be ahead of him in the pecking order.

Utopia Parkway

ki wrote: »

In recent interview Buckley acknowledged that his height is probably holding him back a little, and said he has worked on other parts of his game to compensate.

Don't see how lack of height would hold a prop back unless they were tiny which Buckely isn't. Have heard plenty of coaches say though that they prefer shorter props to taller ones as they are harder to get leverage under in the scrum.

baldshin

Unlikely, but if anyone has or heard of a ticket in the College Road end for Saturday's game, let me know!

connachta

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Don't see how lack of height would hold a prop back unless they were tiny which Buckely isn't. Have heard plenty of coaches say though that they prefer shorter props to taller ones as they are harder to get leverage under in the scrum.

And it helps him to play SH:D

freyners

I cannot see the logic in excluding Buckley. Even if he is banking on Healy returning to form and prefers Killers running ability, its simply awful planning to be excluding one of the form players in Ireland at the moment, in any position. Its a one day camp, there is hardly a numbers restriction?

connachta

does schmidt really think Healy will make it to RWC 2019...Weird. But good for Connacht, Buckley plays enough with his province

thomond2006

connachta wrote: »

does schmidt really think Healy will make it to RWC 2019...Weird. But good for Connacht, Buckley plays enough with his province

I don't think RWC 2019 is in his head just now. Plus Healy will only be 30 in 2019.

Bazzo

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't think RWC 2019 is in his head just now. Plus Healy will only be 30 in 2019.

Not quite, he'll be 32

thomond2006

Bazzo wrote: »

Not quite, he'll be 32

Ah I mixed up Cian with Matt there!

connachta

The point is he is not better than Buckley right now, there's no reason he will be at 32... Except if he turns to be good then average then late developped à la Muldowney. Unlikely

irishbucsfan

I can't work out the Buckley thing either. I'd assume they're completely aware of him and there's some concern they have, but I can't see what it is

dub_skav

I think the pain of a Buckley propping for Ireland is just too fresh.

connemara man

He does too much around the pitch

Hagz

I can only assume it comes down to the finer details of his scrummaging. Details the fan/supporter wouldn't be aware of. I wasn't aware Mike Ross was leagues ahead of his competition at scrum time but apparently he is, hence why he leapfrogs them all when he's fit.

irishbucsfan

Hagz wrote: »

I can only assume it comes down to the finer details of his scrummaging. Details the fan/supporter wouldn't be aware of. I wasn't aware Mike Ross was leagues ahead of his competition at scrum time but apparently he is, hence why he leapfrogs them all when he's fit.

I remember back when he had just arrived in Leinster and wasn't near the team either Harty or Meates were quoted saying he was the best we'd ever produced, and that was pretty surprising to me. Ever since then I've taken it as gospel until one of them pipes up about someone else!

former total

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I can't work out the Buckley thing either. I'd assume they're completely aware of him and there's some concern they have, but I can't see what it is

The only thing I'd say is that front row play is the hardest for lay people to judge, that it really is a position that real expertise is required to know exactly what you're looking at. There could be a flaw in Buckley's game that we (as fans) just can't pick up on but that Greg Feek sees plain as day.

Or maybe they just think Kilcoyne is better?

Zzippy

If he has a flaw in his scrummaging then not too many THs have been able to exploit it, and he's played against some pretty damn good ones. Even if he does, urely it's something that a bit of coaching would address - his play over the last 2 seasons deserves at least being called up and given that opportunity.

NiallBoo

former total wrote: »

The only thing I'd say is that front row play is the hardest for lay people to judge

Whatever it is, it's not scrum related.

Utopia Parkway

former total wrote: »

The only thing I'd say is that front row play is the hardest for lay people to judge, that it really is a position that real expertise is required to know exactly what you're looking at. There could be a flaw in Buckley's game that we (as fans) just can't pick up on but that Greg Feek sees plain as day.

Or maybe they just think Kilcoyne is better?

The only thing I think Kilcoyne is better at is he is probably a better ball carrier. At everything else, scrummaging, breakdown work, ability to pass the ball, etc. I think Buckley is clearly superior in those facets of the game.

brocbrocach

James Cronin is probably the no.1 loosehead in Munster. I can see why Killer makes it into this squad for impact but Healy is on borrowed time there with 5 top quality players aiming at his central contract.
The two IQ props at Ulster are showing well enough too. I can't see why they wouldn't be brought into this squad with an eye on the future.

wp_rathead

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

The only thing I think Kilcoyne is better at is he is probably a better ball carrier. At everything else, scrummaging, breakdown work, ability to pass the ball, etc. I think Buckley is clearly superior in those facets of the game.

That is a fair point, he doesn't really do "hard yards" nor will you ever see him do what Cian Healy did to Richie McCaw..
It would be pretty disheartening if that was the reason he wasn't selected though:(

former total

Zzippy wrote: »

If he has a flaw in his scrummaging then not too many THs have been able to exploit it, and he's played against some pretty damn good ones. Even if he does, urely it's something that a bit of coaching would address - his play over the last 2 seasons deserves at least being called up and given that opportunity.

I've no idea what it is that's holding him back, scrummaging or otherwise, but there must be something. The usual spiel about Joe picking his favourites doesn't apply here either. Kilcoyne is very good all the same so could just be a narrow call going the other way.

brocbrocach wrote: »

James Cronin is probably the no.1 loosehead in Munster. I can see why Killer makes it into this squad for impact but Healy is on borrowed time there with 5 top quality players aiming at his central contract.
The two IQ props at Ulster are showing well enough too. I can't see why they wouldn't be brought into this squad with an eye on the future.

Warwick and McCall? It's a one day camp, there's no point bringing in 70 guys.
Healy has just signed a new central deal so he's got another three years of borrowed time...

ClanofLams

former total wrote: »

I've no idea what it is that's holding him back, scrummaging or otherwise, but there must be something. The usual spiel about Joe picking his favourites doesn't apply here either. Kilcoyne is very good all the same so could just be a narrow call going the other way.

Healy has just signed a new central deal so he's got another three years of borrowed time...

Kilcoyne is good but reading online (specifically Munsterfans) even most Munster supporters are saying Buckley is very hard done by and he should be ahead of Kilcoyne.

Tommy Bowe is on a central contract too and hasn't been included so don't think central contract automatically equals squad place.

Billysays no

Bright side is that Denis will be very focused on proving Joe wrong on Saturday. I continue to be bemused by his omission from the national squad but it is great news that other connacht players makes the Irish fold. So slowly (very slowly) we are getting there.

Stan27

Billysays no wrote: »

Bright side is that Denis will be very focused on proving Joe wrong on Saturday. I continue to be bemused by his omission from the national squad but it is great news that other connacht players makes the Irish fold. So slowly (very slowly) we are getting there.

One could argue that we are already there, or at least very close.
-2nd in league
-Number of players in the national squad
-got into champions cup our selves
-good academy

brocbrocach

former total wrote: »

I've no idea what it is that's holding him back, scrummaging or otherwise, but there must be something. The usual spiel about Joe picking his favourites doesn't apply here either. Kilcoyne is very good all the same so could just be a narrow call going the other way.



Warwick and McCall? It's a one day camp, there's no point bringing in 70 guys.
Healy has just signed a new central deal so he's got another three years of borrowed time...

Forgot Healy had resigned :P
Yeah I'd agree for most positions but at prop it's good to keep anyone with talent in the mix i think, especially wiht Ross bowing out, Moore possibly being frozen out, Furlong not really up to international standard yet. White can only be a stop gap.
Ulster front rows not lighting any fires or getting much hype but they're doing fine and have space to improve.

Billysays no

Stan27 wrote: »

One could argue that we are already there, or at least very close.
-2nd in league
-Number of players in the national squad
-got into champions cup our selves
-good academy

Number of players in national squad as compared to position in pro12 does not equate to me

neelia11

Billysays no wrote: »

Number of players in national squad as compared to position in pro12 does not equate to me

By that logic you have no reason to complain about any leinster players selected so

irishgrover

all this discussion on representation and progress reminded me of something...

can anyone remember a few years ago, not that many, there was some plan or roadmap published regarding short to medium term targeted achievements. I can't remember exactly what there were but at the time they seemed ambitious, eg

• self qualification for heniken cup
• 5 internationals
• % increase in attendance etc, that type of thing

does anyone remember this, or have a copy of it.... it might be nice to compare aspersions from then to reality of today

MarinersBlues

Is this the one?

http://sportsnewsireland.com/rugby/rugby_irish/connacht-rugby-grassroots-to-greenshirts-developing-home-grown-talent-together/

irishgrover

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Is this the one?

http://sportsnewsireland.com/rugby/rugby_irish/connacht-rugby-grassroots-to-greenshirts-developing-home-grown-talent-together/

that's it thanks. It's interesting that I "reassembled" the goals in my own head, and was quite inaccurate

connachta

Nobody seems to note that, but TOH absence is as much weird as Buckley's. Hope this is just because of his current injury. Kearney won't be a solution for rwc 2019, and TOH is at least in contention with Conway, Zebo etc...

Hagz

Isn't he out long term with an injury?

Either way, there's three high calibre full-backs in the squad with Olding, Kearney and Zebo. He most likely wouldn't get a look in being fit anyway. All three of those full-backs should still be options come 2019.

connachta

Hagz wrote: »

Isn't he out long term with an injury?

Either way, there's three high calibre full-backs in the squad with Olding, Kearney and Zebo. He most likely wouldn't get a look in being fit anyway. All three of those full-backs should still be options come 2019.

Totally disagree

Kerney will be 33!!!! and is no more at his best yet
Olding is young, not a natural FB, and injury prone, nothing to imply he'll be ahead of TOH
Zebo isn't perfect too

TOH should be fit for Connacht play-off, if he does well, Joe should have a look at him

Yeah_Right

connachta wrote: »

Totally disagree

Kerney will be 33!!!! and is no more at his best yet
Olding is young, not a natural FB, and injury prone, nothing to imply he'll be ahead of TOH
Zebo isn't perfect too

TOH should be fit for Connacht play-off, if he does well, Joe should have a look at him

Yeah because you couldn't possibly win a RWC with a 33 year old FB. No way. Wait.... Oops. Yes you can.

TOH is injured and he isn't signicantly better than any of the other FB options so it's perfectly understandable that he's not included.

connachta

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yeah because you couldn't possibly win a RWC with a 33 year old FB. No way. Wait.... Oops. Yes you can.

TOH is injured and he isn't signicantly better than any of the other FB options so it's perfectly understandable that he's not included.

He is not significantly worse than any other options. And no you can't win RWC with a 33 y.o Kearney. My opinion

Utopia Parkway

connachta wrote: »

Nobody seems to note that, but TOH absence is as much weird as Buckley's. Hope this is just because of his current injury. Kearney won't be a solution for rwc 2019, and TOH is at least in contention with Conway, Zebo etc...

Been the best Irish 15 in the Pro 12 this season. Fair play to him. Thought he wasn't going to fulfill his potential a few years ago but seems to have settled down a lot and his game has improved as a result.

ClanofLams

Yeah_Right wrote: »

TOH is injured and he isn't signicantly better than any of the other FB options so it's perfectly understandable that he's not included.

He's significantly better than Zebo at full back, which is unsurprising given the latter has about ten professional games there, if that. Haven't seen enough of Olding at 15 to comment.

Yeah_Right

connachta wrote: »

He is not significantly worse than any other options. And no you can't win RWC with a 33 y.o Kearney. My opinion

Correct. He isn't significantly worse. Never said he was.

You use Kearney's age as a stick to beat him with yet you ignore the fact that the best FB in the world is only 2 months younger than him. That a 33 year old FB has won the RWC. Point out faults or deficiencies in his game sure but age is not an issue.

connachta

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Point out faults or deficiencies in his game sure but age is not an issue.

His age means, in all likelyhood, that his deficiencies won't be fixed and probably will worsen