Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

CMOTDibbler

connachta wrote: »

His age means, in all likelyhood, that his deficiencies won't be fixed and probably will worsen

We've seen full backs get a new lease of life after turning thirty before. Lee Byrne, Geordan Murphy, Girvan Dempsey and Felon Armitage to name a few.

It's certainly not a reason to dismiss a player.

Bazzo

TOH is an interesting one because he's highly rated by all us Connacht fans because we watch him week in week out and we know what he's capable of, but on a couple of the more highly visible occassions he's had ok - average games, so a lot of people from outside the province seem to give him undue ****.

He's very consistent, rarely has a bad game, and when he's on song he's usually in or about man of the match.

Personally I'd have him involved in the extended squad but I can understand(not agree with) him being excluded more than Buckley.

former total

I'm confused. Is someone saying Zebo is too old to improve as a full back?!

irishbucsfan

former total wrote: »

I'm confused. Is someone saying Zebo is too old to improve as a full back?!

Simon Zebo IS ANCIENT at 26 years old. Tiernan O'Halloran is a very young and spritely 25 years young. Matt Healy is a baby at 27.

Bazzo

former total wrote: »

I'm confused. Is someone saying Zebo is too old to improve as a full back?!

No?

The only person's whose age was mentioned was Kearney.

ClanofLams

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Simon Zebo IS ANCIENT at 26 years old. Tiernan O'Halloran is a very young and spritely 25 years young. Matt Healy is a baby at 27.

???? Nobody mentioned Zebo''s age.

CMOTDibbler

So much whoosh

connachta

ClanofLams wrote: »

???? Nobody mentioned Zebo''s age.

not me anyway

former total

Bazzo wrote: »

No?

The only person's whose age was mentioned was Kearney.

I was confused by the talk of fixing deficiencies in a player. I assumed we weren't talking about the only full back we have who is actually proven at international level.

ClanofLams

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

So much whoosh

Meh I figured it was a joke but it wasn't exactly 'witty', just an implication that connacht fans are biased, which I expect we are as with all provincial fans. Look out Dylan Moran!

connachta

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

We've seen full backs get a new lease of life after turning thirty before. Lee Byrne, Geordan Murphy, Girvan Dempsey and Felon Armitage to name a few.

Those 3 may have kept a certain level of fitness but I highly doubt they had been really better at 33 than they were before, and I don't think it's a common rule. Look at Mils...:o

connachta

former total wrote: »

I was confused by the talk of fixing deficiencies in a player. I assumed we weren't talking about the only full back we have who is actually proven at international level.

prooven, but not for long, signs of decline. I like Rob, just don't think he's maintaining his level for 2019

CMOTDibbler

connachta wrote: »

Those 3 may have kept a certain level of fitness but I highly doubt they had been really better at 33 than they were before, and I don't think it's a common rule. Look at Mils...:o

Lee Byrne moved to Clermont when he was 31 and was a fantastic player for them until he left four years later. Injury finally ended his career at the ripe old age of 35. Girvan Dempsey became a far cannier player as he got older and for his style of player was an asset to Leinster and Ireland until ROb Kearney came along and he still managed to get games. Delon Armitage is 32 now and is arguably a better (even if he is a bit of a plonler) player than he ever was for London Irish.

Mils Muiliaina seems to be on a pension collection exercise. There's always one :rolleyes:

Yeah_Right

Bazzo wrote: »

TOH is an interesting one because he's highly rated by all us Connacht fans because we watch him week in week out and we know what he's capable of, but on a couple of the more highly visible occassions he's had ok - average games, so a lot of people from outside the province seem to give him undue ****.

I admit that in my case, this is true. I wouldn't have watched a lot of Connacht over the years. And in fairness, why would I? They weren't a good side and were usually on TG4 (I don't speak Irish). I have paid more attention the last couple of seasons with Pat Lam and all kiwis in the squad. I wouldn't watch them every week though.

In the games I have this season, TOH has generally looked good but has been poor to average in some of the bigger games. I've seen nothing that makes me think he is ready for test rugby.

Zzippy

Hagz wrote: »

Isn't he out long term with an injury?

Either way, there's three high calibre full-backs in the squad with Olding, Kearney and Zebo. He most likely wouldn't get a look in being fit anyway. All three of those full-backs should still be options come 2019.

I was taking this post seriously until I got to Zebo. Then I realised you weren't really being serious.

Carry on...

Utopia Parkway

Bazzo wrote: »

TOH is an interesting one because he's highly rated by all us Connacht fans because we watch him week in week out and we know what he's capable of, but on a couple of the more highly visible occassions he's had ok - average games, so a lot of people from outside the province seem to give him undue ****.

He's very consistent, rarely has a bad game, and when he's on song he's usually in or about man of the match.

Personally I'd have him involved in the extended squad but I can understand(not agree with) him being excluded more than Buckley.

He's been consistently very good this season and I wouldn't have said that a couple of years ago. Thought he would be out of Connacht altogether at one stage but he's obviously matured a lot since.

ClanofLams

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Lee Byrne moved to Clermont when he was 31 and was a fantastic player for them until he left four years later. Injury finally ended his career at the ripe old age of 35. Girvan Dempsey became a far cannier player as he got older and for his style of player was an asset to Leinster and Ireland until ROb Kearney came along and he still managed to get games. Delon Armitage is 32 now and is arguably a better (even if he is a bit of a plonler) player than he ever was for London Irish.

Mils Muiliaina seems to be on a pension collection exercise. There's always one :rolleyes:

Byrne and Dempsey both retired at 34, the former having made relatively few appearances for Newport in his final season and Dempaey was no longer first choice either obviously. They definitely both played well in their 30s but I don't think anyone could say they were at their peak at 33 and neither were being selected at international level at that stage.

I think in an increasingly physical game Ireland will be in a bit of trouble if dependent on a 33 year old full back.

This is beside the point though if debating whether TO'H should be in the Ireland squad at present as Kearney is obviously an automatic choice at present.

connachta

ClanofLams wrote: »

Byrne and Dempsey both retired at 34, the former having made relatively few appearances for Newport in his final season and Dempaey was no longer first choice either obviously. They definitely both played well in their 30s but I don't think anyone could say they were at their peak at 33 and neither were being selected at international level at that stage.

I think in an increasingly physical game Ireland will be in a bit of trouble if dependent on a 33 year old full back.

This is beside the point though if debating whether TO'H should be in the Ireland squad at present as Kearney is obviously an automatic choice at present.

Agree overall
But Schmidt HAS TO build for 2019 right now.
Ringrose/Aki (when IQ)/TOH/Olding must be included as Dillane and VdF were

Hagz

Zzippy wrote: »

I was taking this post seriously until I got to Zebo. Then I realised you weren't really being serious.

Carry on...

You don't think Zebo is a high calibre full-back? God only knows what Tiernan O'Halloran is then because he certainly isn't as good as Zebo.

connachta

Hagz wrote: »

You don't think Zebo is a high calibre full-back? God only knows what Tiernan O'Halloran is then because he certainly isn't as good as Zebo.

less sparkling, but as good if not better FB

ClanofLams

Hagz wrote: »

You don't think Zebo is a high calibre full-back? God only knows what Tiernan O'Halloran is then because he certainly isn't as good as Zebo.

Zebo is a high calibre winger at the moment. Can you point to any performance suggesting he is a high calibre full back??

Hagz

connachta wrote: »

less sparkling, but as good if not better FB

Less sparkling of course meaning he is slower, doesn't have the same footwork and has a worse passing game.

What about kicking? Should it be ignored that Zebo has a greater kicking game and the added valuable advantage of being left footed?

What does O'Halloran offer from full-back that puts him above Zebo?

ClanofLams wrote: »

Zebo is a high calibre winger at the moment. Can you point to any performance suggesting he is a high calibre full back??

Yeh sure. He had two great games at full-back back in 2012 against South Africa and Argentina in the Autumn tests. He was one of the stand out players against Wales this season and he also had a brilliant game against Scotland in the world cup warm ups. He's a high calibre winger at the moment who's 7 of 10 international appearances this season have come at full-back.

It doesn't matter if you disagree with the claim that he's a high calibre full-back. You can call him a mediocre full-back if you'd like. O'Halloran is still a level below him.

Bazzo

Hagz wrote: »

Less sparkling of course meaning he is slower, doesn't have the same footwork and has a worse passing game.

What about kicking? Should it be ignored that Zebo has a greater kicking game and the added valuable advantage of being left footed?

What does O'Halloran offer from full-back that puts him above Zebo?



Yeh sure. He had two great games at full-back back in 2012 against South Africa and Argentina in the Autumn tests. He was one of the stand out players against Wales this season and he also had a brilliant game against Scotland in the world cup warm ups. He's a high calibre winger at the moment who's 7 of 10 international appearances this season have come at full-back.

It doesn't matter if you disagree with the claim that he's a high calibre full-back. You can call him a mediocre full-back if you'd like. O'Halloran is still a level below him.

The Welsh game where he drew loads of criticism for some of his dodgy full back play and 2 games from 4 years ago(that I don't even have time to go back right now and verify)?

Zebo might become a good or even great full back if he gets a run of games there where he's forced to learn the ins and outs of a pretty crucial position, or he might not. TOH is a proper full back, he's well acquainted with a lot of those areas Zebo is lacking in and he's also a good attacking threat. He's actually a very good kicker too but you don't see it too much these days because of the game Pat has him playing, he even has taken long distance kicks to touch(from penalties) on several occasions, with Carty and Ronaldson both also on the field. Just because in your OPINION(and that part is important) Zebo is a better full back doesn't make it factual.

Judging by your criticism of him(he's slow?? seem unaware that he's a good kicker) I'd suggest you actually watch more of his games this season and next before being so quick to say Zebo is a level above him as a full back.

EDIT: Just to add, I know there are advantages to having a left footer on the left wing but I'm not sure what the advantage to a left footed full back is if you want to elaborate on that?

ClanofLams

Hagz wrote: »

Less sparkling of course meaning he is slower, doesn't have the same footwork and has a worse passing game.

What about kicking? Should it be ignored that Zebo has a greater kicking game and the added valuable advantage of being left footed?

What does O'Halloran offer from full-back that puts him above Zebo?



Yeh sure. He had two great games at full-back back in 2012 against South Africa and Argentina in the Autumn tests. He was one of the stand out players against Wales this season and he also had a brilliant game against Scotland in the world cup warm ups. He's a high calibre winger at the moment who's 7 of 10 international appearances this season have come at full-back.

It doesn't matter if you disagree with the claim that he's a high calibre full-back. You can call him a mediocre full-back if you'd like. O'Halloran is still a level below him.

He certainly wasn't one of the stand out players against Wales. His positioning was caught out a number of times and played a large role in their try.

He's excellent going forward but doesn't perform the basics of full back play up to standard, the very thing Rob Kearney does with ease. This is entirely understandable given he's played so little in the position.

Hagz

Bazzo wrote: »

The Welsh game where he drew loads of criticism for some of his dodgy full back play and 2 games from 4 years ago(that I don't even have time to go back right now and verify)?

Zebo might become a good or even great full back if he gets a run of games there where he's forced to learn the ins and outs of a pretty crucial position, or he might not. TOH is a proper full back, he's well acquainted with a lot of those areas Zebo is lacking in and he's also a good attacking threat. He's actually a very good kicker too but you don't see it too much these days because of the game Pat has him playing, he even has taken long distance kicks to touch(from penalties) on several occasions, with Carty and Ronaldson both also on the field. Just because in your OPINION(and that part is important) Zebo is a better full back doesn't make it factual.

Judging by your criticism of him(he's slow?? seem unaware that he's a good kicker) I'd suggest you actually watch more of his games this season and next before being so quick to say Zebo is a level above him as a full back.

That's a really lazy post.

First of all that's a lacklustre job of twisting my words. According to you I said O'Halloran is slow and I'm unaware that he's a good kicker? Eh no. Those claims were typed by you just now, not me. Never said he was slow, never said he wasn't a good kicker.

Secondly, you've made broad claims without providing any level of insight to justify them.
"TOH is a proper full-back". A proper full-back? That means absolutely nothing without further explanation.
"he's well acquainted with a lot of those areas Zebo is lacking in" - proceed to not mention a single one of those areas.

Of what relevance is it that the games against South Africa and Argentina were two years ago? I didn't realise there were terms and conditions to answering the question. A lazy dismissal.

My claims are so ignorant yet no one seems to be able to define what exactly O'Halloran offers over Zebo? Strange.

Robbo

Ah lads, there's no need to double team Zebo. He's a family man now.

CMOTDibbler

ClanofLams wrote: »

Byrne and Dempsey both retired at 34, the former having made relatively few appearances for Newport in his final season and Dempaey was no longer first choice either obviously. They definitely both played well in their 30s but I don't think anyone could say they were at their peak at 33 and neither were being selected at international level at that stage.

Byrne was injured in his last season which is why he had relatively few games. He had to retire as a result. Before that he was a regular for Clermont and played some of his best rugby there. He was behind Leigh Halfpenny and was playing abroad, two factors that diminshed his interational career,

Girvan Dempsey started three games in the RWC at 32. He scored two tries that season for Ireland and three the previous one. Between 2007 and 2009 he started 15 games for Ireland.

Bazzo

Hagz wrote: »

That's a really lazy post.

First of all that's a lacklustre job of twisting my words. According to you I said O'Halloran is slow and I'm unaware that he's a good kicker? Eh no. Those claims were typed by you just now, not me. Never said he was slow, never said he wasn't a good kicker.

Secondly, you've made broad claims without providing any level of insight to justify them.
"TOH is a proper full-back". A proper full-back? That means absolutely nothing without further explanation.
"he's well acquainted with a lot of those areas Zebo is lacking in" - proceed to not mention a single one of those areas.

Of what relevance is it that the games against South Africa and Argentina were two years ago? I didn't realise there were terms and conditions to answering the question. A lazy dismissal.

My claims are so ignorant yet no one seems to be able to define what exactly O'Halloran offers over Zebo? Strange.

A lazy post? Really? You're being wilfully obtuse if you're not aware that aspects of Zebo's full back play like his positioning are lacking. Also funny that you accuse me of putting words in your mouth when here's where I took the "slow" part from

Hagz wrote: »

Less sparkling of course meaning he is slower, doesn't have the same footwork and has a worse passing game.

That's you putting words in somebody elses mouth. His passing game and footwork are also good by the way.

The majority of your posts are so aggressive there's no point even trying to argue with you though, so I think I'll just go crack a beer and leave it.

ClanofLams

Hagz wrote: »

That's a really lazy post.



My claims are so ignorant yet no one seems to be able to define what exactly O'Halloran offers over Zebo? Strange.

Positioning is the most important asset in a good full back. Zebos isn't up to standard yet and was exploited badly against Wales. TO'H is very rarely caught put of position. Zebo may well remedy this flaw with more experience.

former total

ClanofLams wrote: »

Positioning is the most important asset in a good full back. Zebos isn't up to standard yet and was exploited badly against Wales. TO'H is very rarely caught put of position. Zebo may well remedy this flaw with more experience.

I suppose the problem is that we're judging Zebo on his performances at international level and O'Halloran on Pro12. It's not really like with like.

Hagz

Bazzo wrote: »

A lazy post? Really? You're being wilfully obtuse if you're not aware that aspects of Zebo's full back play like his positioning are lacking. Also funny that you accuse me of putting words in your mouth when here's where I took the "slow" part from

Hagz wrote:

Less sparkling of course meaning he is slower, doesn't have the same footwork and has a worse passing game.

That's you putting words in somebody elses mouth. His passing game and footwork are also good by the way.

Brilliant. You proceed to show exactly how you twisted my words and then continued to twist them even more!!

Check this out. Carlin Isles is slower than Usain Bolt. That's the same as me saying Carlin Isles is slow right? :pac:

Bazzo wrote:

The majority of your posts are so aggressive there's no point even trying to argue with you though, so I think I'll just go crack a beer and leave it.

The majority of my posts are aggressive? I would edit that to say the majority of my posts in the Connacht thread tend to be aggressive. Although that's mostly down to Billysaysno.

ClanofLams

former total wrote: »

I suppose the problem is that we're judging Zebo on his performances at international level and O'Halloran on Pro12. It's not really like with like.

That's true and naturally test rugby is quicker. If Munster persist with Zebo at full back comparisons will become easier.

Billysays no

I think a classic difference between TOH and Zebo is responsibility. Look at the Zebo Conway fiasco during the Leinster Munster game. The two of them fell over each other and watched a ball slowly trundle into touch. TOH calls the shots and there is no misunderstanding him. He organises players across the backline and people listen to him. And people listen to him because he is definitive. He jumps in there, puts his body on the line rather than waiting for somebody else to take responibility for the mess created by indecision.

Zzippy

Hagz wrote: »

You don't think Zebo is a high calibre full-back? God only knows what Tiernan O'Halloran is then because he certainly isn't as good as Zebo.

You're right, I don't. That's what I found funny. He is a high calibre winger, he is a distinctly average fullback. His positioning is poor, he can be dodgy under a high ball and having a big boot doesn't make up for those shortcomings. He can be good coming into the line and making a break, but doesn't make much ground when running from deep, a la Rob Kearney. If you think Zebo is a better fullback than TOH then you haven't watched TOH much in the flesh. Watching on tv isn't the same, as you don't see the positioning work, runs off the ball and covering across. Zebo needs to concentrate on the wing where his talents are best utilised, and his flaws less obvious.

Hagz

Zzippy wrote: »

You're right, I don't. That's what I found funny. He is a high calibre winger, he is a distinctly average fullback. His positioning is poor, he can be dodgy under a high ball and having a big boot doesn't make up for those shortcomings. He can be good coming into the line and making a break, but doesn't make much ground when running from deep, a la Rob Kearney. If you think Zebo is a better fullback than TOH then you haven't watched TOH much in the flesh. Watching on tv isn't the same, as you don't see the positioning work, runs off the ball and covering across. Zebo needs to concentrate on the wing where his talents are best utilised, and his flaws less obvious.

Thanks for the reasoned response.
With regard to his ability under the high ball, I wouldn't put Zebo anywhere near the level of Rob Kearney, but I wouldn't put TOH any higher than Zebo. Having a big boot is extremely valuable. Zebo can take a lot of pressure away from the half-backs with his left foot, a feature also found in Rob Kearney's game, and the length he gets on his kicks is a big pressure reliever as well.
With regard to running from deep, again I'm not really concerned with what Zebo can do. I don't particularly rate Zebo too highly at full-back or on the wing. It's about what O'Halloran can do better. So far the counter arguments seem to be on positioning. I don't see TOH getting a look in ahead of Zebo based on positioning, however vital it is to full-back play.

I'm not a fan of the whole "you haven't watched, or you musn't have seen" responses. It may well be the case that a poster can't fathom how another poster can hold an opinion on a player having watched the player, but I still think it's best to refrain from using that line of argument.

Utopia Parkway

In terms of the basics of full-back play, TOH is a better 15 than Zebo. I think we all saw Zebo being slightly a fish out of water at times at full-back for Ireland. Especially in defence. That said TOH is never going to be as quick as Zebo so if Zebo can tighten up all the other aspects of full-back play you can see why he'd be an intriguing option attacking from 15. Then again so would Matt Healy based on last week's game although he wouldn't have the boot Zebo has.

Zzippy

Hagz wrote: »

Thanks for the reasoned response.
With regard to his ability under the high ball, I wouldn't put Zebo anywhere near the level of Rob Kearney, but I wouldn't put TOH any higher than Zebo. Having a big boot is extremely valuable. Zebo can take a lot of pressure away from the half-backs with his left foot, a feature also found in Rob Kearney's game, and the length he gets on his kicks is a big pressure reliever as well.
With regard to running from deep, again I'm not really concerned with what Zebo can do. I don't particularly rate Zebo too highly at full-back or on the wing. It's about what O'Halloran can do better. So far the counter arguments seem to be on positioning. I don't see TOH getting a look in ahead of Zebo based on positioning, however vital it is to full-back play.

I'm not a fan of the whole "you haven't watched, or you musn't have seen" responses. It may well be the case that a poster can't fathom how another poster can hold an opinion on a player having watched the player, but I still think it's best to refrain from using that line of argument.

Maybe I didn't expand my argument enough wrt running from deep. TOH sets up a huge amount of Connacht attacks when running from deep, he has great pace and usually beats a couple of players, he also frequently releases other players down the wing by drawing in defenders. Zebo is better at running onto that kind of ball, not creating it. It's a huge advantage over Zebo as a 15. For all the hype over Zebo, TOH has a better step and beats more defenders. Zebo has a big boot but TOH is no slouch at kicking either. Being left-footed is purely a matter of chance, it might give the team an extra exit option but it's not really something that makes someone a better player.

Hagz wrote:

I don't particularly rate Zebo too highly at full-back or on the wing. .

FWIW I agree, but you also said:

Hagz wrote:

Either way, there's three high calibre full-backs in the squad with Olding, Kearney and Zebo.

Which is it?

Hagz

Zzippy wrote: »

Which is it?

Just a case of misinterpretation. Poor wording on my part. I wasn't talking about high calibre in the Mike Brown, Ben Smith category. Stuart Olding hasn't played nearly enough rugby at full-back to find himself in that bracket. I meant it in a more flattering way. When compared to Tiernan O'Halloran, all three of these players are heavy competition who are quite rightly above him in the pecking order. One has already collected a lot of caps and has been a mainstay in the international side, the other two are likely to amass a lot of caps between them as well. When it comes to Tiernan O'Halloran, he'll be lucky to break 20. When it comes to 2019, the likes of Zebo, Kearney and Olding have every chance of being in the fight for the 15 shirt. O'Halloran doesn't. There's no way to know that until the future unfolds, but I feel confident saying it.

Billysays no

Hagz wrote: »

Just a case of misinterpretation. Poor wording on my part. I wasn't talking about high calibre in the Mike Brown, Ben Smith category. Stuart Olding hasn't played nearly enough rugby at full-back to find himself in that bracket. I meant it in a more flattering way. When compared to Tiernan O'Halloran, all three of these players are heavy competition who are quite rightly above him in the pecking order. One has already collected a lot of caps and has been a mainstay in the international side, the other two are likely to amass a lot of caps between them as well. When it comes to Tiernan O'Halloran, he'll be lucky to break 20. When it comes to 2019, the likes of Zebo, Kearney and Olding have every chance of being in the fight for the 15 shirt. O'Halloran doesn't. There's no way to know that until the future unfolds, but I feel confident saying it.

Lets just see. Kearney has been ordinary when available, olding has normally been unavailable and zebo has been suspect when available. But all are better than TOH who has been available for connacht all season and is a fundamental basis of the teams success. He is not named in John Muldoons unavailability as captain for the fun of it. Your logic is beyond me. I do like olding, i think if he could remain fit for two consecutive games he might be a good player. I know kearney was once good so like cian healy we should hope that he will be good once again. And zebo will always be remembered for an ankle tap movement but less remembered for his achilles heel, he is a defensive nightmare

CMOTDibbler

Billysays no wrote: »

Lets just see. Kearney has been ordinary when available, olding has normally been unavailable and zebo has been suspect when available. But all are better than TOH who has been available for connacht all season and is a fundamental basis of the teams success. He is not named in John Muldoons unavailability as captain for the fun of it. Your logic is beyond me. I do like olding, i think if he could remain fit for two consecutive games he might be a good player. I know kearney was once good so like cian healy we should hope that he will be good once again. And zebo will always be remembered for an ankle tap movement but less remembered for his achilles heel, he is a defensive nightmare

If you want to see how a player would go as an international, it's instructive to see how he plays in the bigger matches against tougher opposition. The last time he was head to head with Kearney (1st January). Kearney outplayed him in breaks made, metres run, tackles missed, defenders beaten and carries. I don't consider turnovers as they usually reflect on the support rather than the player themselves.

So there's good, there's ordinary and then there's Tiernan O'Halloran. :pac:

I'd actually like to see him progress as he has a good skillset but he needs to start showing it more in the big games.

testtech05

Team for tomorrow night:
15. Robbie Henshaw
14. Niyi Adeolokun
13. Bundee Aki
12. Peter Robb
11. Matt Healy
10. Shane O’Leary
9. Kieran Marmion
1. Denis Buckley
2. Tom McCartney
3. Finlay Bealham
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Aly Muldowney
6. Sean O’Brien
7. Eoin McKeon
8. John Muldoon (captain)


Replacements:
16. Jason Harris-Wright
17. Ronan Loughney
18. JP Cooney
19. Andrew Browne
20. James Connolly
21. John Cooney
22. Jack Carty
23. Fionn Carr

galwaylad14

As strong a team as we could have named really. Pooleman being out meant we had to put Robbie back to full back really. That's a very strong starting pack but the forwards on the bench seem a bit light weight but I suppose that's where the injury issue comes in.

Think Shane O'Leary has been doing ok but it'll probably help him to know that he can just give it his all for an hour and let Jack replace him then. Backline is along expected lines, hoping for another big performance from Bundee in the centre.

Stan27

Is delahunt injured?

irishgrover

And now for something completely different....
today is the last day for early bird renewals for STHs

Zzippy

irishgrover wrote: »

And now for something completely different....
today is the last day for early bird renewals for STHs

Thanks for the reminder!

MarinersBlues

irishgrover wrote: »

And now for something completely different....
today is the last day for early bird renewals for STHs

I would suggest renewing ....... rapid

From the way they are holding back the full ST price I would be expecting an increase.

salmocab

MarinersBlues wrote: »

I would suggest renewing ....... rapid

From the way they are holding back the full ST price I would be expecting an increase.

Surely holding back the price until after the early bird was closed would suggest not much of if any increase.

Billysays no

I liked David kellys comment in the indo that Connacht are playing a different sport to their Irish rivals. Go connacht

irishbucsfan

Billysays no wrote: »

I liked David kellys comment in the indo that Connacht are playing a different sport to their Irish rivals. Go connacht

David Kelly in the Indo said Leinster should get rid of Joe Schmidt in 2010!

Yeah_Right

irishbucsfan wrote: »

David Kelly in the Indo said Leinster should get rid of Joe Schmidt in 2010!

No wonder Billy likes him.