Survivor Series fallout thread *Mucho Spoilers*

Bounty Hunter

Survivor Series results

Neville & Titus O'Neill & Goldust & The Dudley Boyz defeated The Miz & Bo Dallas & Stardust & The Ascension

Roman Reigns defeated Alberto Del Rio

Dean Ambrose defeated Kevin Owens

Ryback, The Usos and The Lucha Dragons defeated The New Day, Sheamus and King Barrett

Charlotte defeated Paige

Tyler Breeze defeated Dolph Ziggler

Undertaker and Kane defeated Bray Wyatt and Luke Harper

Roman Reigns defeated Dean Ambrose

Sheamus cashed in his MITB briefcase and defeated Roman Reigns

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So, this happened.

Lord TSC

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Ambrose turning heel would have been way more interesting to me. You could have played up the 'lunatic' element as well by having him act way more deranged than Rollins ever did. I'm thinking along the lines of a Joker type character (without the face paint obviously - don't wanna step on Sting's toes :pac:).

Having Hunter trying to control him, only to slowly realise Ambrose can't be controlled and has the potential to burn the company to the ground, would have been a fascinating direction to go in.

Instead they took the script for Summerslam 2013 and tippexed out Bryan and Orton's names

Whosthis

Lord TSC wrote: »

Having Hunter trying to control him, only to slowly realise Ambrose can't be controlled and has the potential to burn the company to the ground, would have been a fascinating direction to go in.

Instead they took the script for Summerslam 2013 and tippexed out Bryan and Orton's names

That role is already taken by creative.

Bounty Hunter

7

Lord TSC wrote: »

Instead they took the script for Summerslam 2013 and tippexed out Bryan and Orton's names

That is essentially what I felt watching the end.

Personally I know a lot of people are anti-Sheamo atm but I don't think he will have the title a long time and this will essentially be the Reigns vs The Authority feud not Reigns vs Sheamus. I'd expect Reigns to be a 2 time champ by the time The Rumble is over.

Obviously they are hoping this move will make Reigns more sympathetic as a babyface (he got screwed in the main event) and get the fans on his side more by having him go against the authority something he has kinda always done but now full on.

Meanwhile it will be Ambrose vs Kevin Owens (who ambrose beat) for the IC title in a nice little feud methinks. That will probably last till Sami Zayn returns

BMMachine

2

absolute crap. worst survivor series in history.
1 good match (ambrose - owens and even then it was quite laboured and didnt flow properly)

They kill themselves. Everytime they have something they shoot their load everywhere and hamstring themselves. My feeling is there is a tug of war in the office between Vince and HHH as none of this is making sense

KingJamsie

8

BMMachine wrote: »

absolute crap. worst survivor series in history.
1 good match (ambrose - owens and even then it was quite laboured and didnt flow properly)

They kill themselves. Everytime they have something they shoot their load everywhere and hamstring themselves. My feeling is there is a tug of war in the office between Vince and HHH as none of this is making sense

HHH 100% was pushing for Reigns to turn heel so props to him for that. Sadly Vince has final say and wasn't having any of it.

Feel bad for Ambrose. Back to midcard

Mokuba

5

What a sh*tshow. Stopped watching after Fast Lane, streamed SS for some inexplicable reason - mistake.

- How have they managed to book themselves into a situation where they have a champion with nuclear levels of crowd apathy, and a challenger who the majority of people still don't want even remotely close to the title picture.

- How did they have it that Sheamus won Money in the Bank? He is awful. He has literally no character whatsoever. They may as well introduce the guy as "Bland Generic Heel".

- The last 3 Money in the Bank cash-ins have been by a figure backed by Triple H. 2 of those cash-ins had him directly involved in the cash-in itself. STOP REPEATING STORYLINES.

- Best match of the night was Ambrose/Owens. Imagine if that had been the final.

- Confetti for Roman. As mentioned above almost identical to SS2013. Except Daniel Bryan WAS an actual underdog. People could relate to Daniel Bryan. People wanted nothing more than to see Daniel Bryan succeed. Roman Reigns has won the Royal Rumble and won every single feud he has entered into (with the obvious exception of Brock Lesnar - which was never concluded). Roman Reigns is not an underdog. People don't like Roman Reigns (mostly).

- Bray Wyatt doesn't have a shred of credibility left. Would be better off repackaged again at this point. Never goes over in meaningful matches. Looks like an idiot.

PTH2009

Setting up sting vs taker should of happend last night. Imagine the pop if after taker/Kane won the lights went out and the crow sounded and sting showed up but can see a Kane heel turn and it being Kane vs taker yet again. Would not mind seeing a taker vs kane vs sting.

I would of have had Ambrose turn on reigns after reigns won the title and then sheamus comes out and cashes in.

So if Rollins was still around he would of lost to reigns and sheamus cashing in. ??

Bounty Hunter

7

PTH2009 wrote: »

Setting up sting vs taker should of happend last night. Imagine the pop if after taker/Kane won the lights went out and the crow sounded and sting showed up but can see a Kane heel turn and it being Kane vs taker yet again. Would not mind seeing a taker vs kane vs sting.

I would of have had Ambrose turn on reigns after reigns won the title and then sheamus comes out and cashes in.

So if Rollins was still around he would of lost to reigns and sheamus cashing in. ??

I doubt Sheamus would have cashed in but Reigns winning vs Rollins probably would have happened whether it was at this PPV or a subsequent PPV. Sheamus winning means we have a title feud between him (HHHs crew really) and Reigns going forward instead of what would have been Rollins vs Reigns (rematches etc).


I fear we won't get Taker vs Sting at all now. Despite their ages I firmly believe we should but all the stories are that Vince and co aren't interested in the match and that Taker vs Cena or even Braun Strowman (good god no - I doubt they'll happen though) are more likely while maybe Sting would face Wyatt.

I'd say Reigns will win the title around Rumble time if not sooner and thats the rematch and then at mania will face Cena / Brock or HHH though if the title is involved Hunter really shouldn't be)

sky88

PTH2009 wrote: »

Setting up sting vs taker should of happend last night. Imagine the pop if after taker/Kane won the lights went out and the crow sounded and sting showed up but can see a Kane heel turn and it being Kane vs taker yet again. Would not mind seeing a taker vs kane vs sting.

I would of have had Ambrose turn on reigns after reigns won the title and then sheamus comes out and cashes in.

So if Rollins was still around he would of lost to reigns and sheamus cashing in. ??

I thought the crowd sucked the whole night so I'm glad sting didn't come back if that's the plan.

I'd say they don't know what there doing. I think the just want to make reigns the top guy so badly there trying anything to get the fans on his side. But as long as they try and keep shoving him down our throats I don't think it'll work. It took cena a couple of years to get the same mixed reactions reigns gets plus his push happened organically and only really got unbearable push after he was already champion.

Lord TSC

sky88 wrote: »

I thought the crowd sucked the whole night so I'm glad sting didn't come back if that's the plan.

In fairness to the crowd, it was a very, very predictable show. The semi-finals, the Taker match, the Divas match...the main draws were all easy enough to predict. The only attmept at a swerve was one that was poorly built and poorly executed. So I don't blame them for being a lackluster crowd at a lackluster event

Jon Stark

Jesus, when Reigns won I said fair enough. The guy has worked hard since Wrestlemania and deserved it more this time around. But then to serve up a finish that everyone and their granny anticipated from the moment that the tournament was announced is just abysmal.

The thoughts of Sheamus being champ for at least the best part of 3 months just fills me with dread. They've really backed themselves into a corner on this one.

Only an ok show that was absolutely tanked by the main event finish.

Rjd2

https://streamable.com/t997

So yeah we have been here before with Roman.:p

ERG89

Jon Stark wrote: »

Jesus, when Reigns won I said fair enough. The guy has worked hard since Wrestlemania and deserved it more this time around. But then to serve up a finish that everyone and their granny anticipated from the moment that the tournament was announced is just abysmal.

The thoughts of Sheamus being champ for at least the best part of 3 months just fills me with dread. They've really backed themselves into a corner on this one.

Only an ok show that was absolutely tanked by the main event finish.

Only Del Rio has less personality than Sheamus. Didn't watch the show. Won't either based on the feedback here.
Reigns first title win rendered meaningless as we all know they have **** all plans beyond the visual of Sheamus getting his hand raised by HHH over Reigns. You'd think just once they'd book a guy strong before he cashes in the briefcase. Maybe next year?
Not buying crap that people would be swerved by a defeat for him earlier in the night against Ryback.
I hope for everyone's sake the Wyatt vs Taker feud is over now.
Wish my post could be positive but it just can't be.

Jon Stark

Oh and I forgot to give special mention to Reigns interview with Rene after the match with Del Rio.

God love the bloke and his awkward silence mishaps. Doesn't help when it's followed by KO interrupting and making it look so effortless.

sunbabe08

Jon Stark wrote: »

Oh and I forgot to give special mention to Reigns interview with Rene after the match with Del Rio.

God love the bloke and his awkward silence mishaps. Doesn't help when it's followed by KO interrupting and making it look so effortless.

That was jo jo he was talking to & what awkward silence? He was interrupted by Ambrose coming to congratulate him. Didn't notice any awkward silence

johnnysmack

sunbabe08 wrote: »

That was jo jo he was talking to & what awkward silence? He was interrupted by Ambrose coming to congratulate him. Didn't notice any awkward silence

When Ambrose left reigns was standing there like a rabbit in head lights for a few seconds before stuttering over a few words. Then KO walked in. It was most definitely an awkward moment.

Jon Stark

sunbabe08 wrote: »

That was jo jo he was talking to & what awkward silence? He was interrupted by Ambrose coming to congratulate him. Didn't notice any awkward silence

Sorry JoJo.

It was after Ambrose left. Jojo and Reigns were standing there for what felt like 10 seconds saying nothing. I got the impression one of them missed their cue and assumed the interview was over after Ambrose left.

BMMachine

2

Heres the thing about Reigns.

Hes fine. Hes the big guy from the shield. can do a decent job and can have exciting matches. cant talk AT ALL and has 0 personality but so what, hes perfect for that big guy in a tag team role and the like.
WWE though, namely Vince, see him as this big money draw and the future of the company and bla bla de fu*king bla and even though hes won a royal rumble and main evented mania, people still absolutely do not give a fu*k about him, not one. So instead of Vince realising this and going back to the drawing board - hes kept him up there, given him the microphone "yo this is real life ya'll" and kept everyone talking about him and guess what! People still absolutely do not care and they are just absolutely killing this guy. I just feel sorry for him at this stage, being fed full of sh*t by vince and his lackeys then going out there and the crowd are just shouting and booing him because hes been rammed down their throats. And the great thing, he can't help himself. He can't stand up for himself, no one is allowed to. Because if you do call the goon squad on their awfulness they will put you in a hat and gangster gear and have you dance to "somebody call my mama" or make you yodel or fu*king something.

and the ratings are at their lowest and they have no answer other than to keep doing what they are doing and bring up the next guy from NXT to kill him on National Television

CSF

2

The Sheamus hate is harsh. I don't think he was Mr Money In The Bank, I don't think he's a WWE Champion. But, it's not as if the night was panning out to be a huge success heralding tonnes of epic feuds when Roman won.

When you contrast Roman and Sheamus' fortunes since Wrestlemania, you've got Roman who has had every single televised appearance since Royal Rumble meticulously planned to engineer his revival after that fateful night. Every feud, every promo, every match was 'how can we get Roman over?'. Every match he is in you could see that they were using every spot in the arsenal, and it felt like others were not allowed overshadow him in their relative matches (I certainly felt that way about Owens vs Ambrose relative to Reigns v Del Rio last night), because Reigns needed to have his matches praised, needed to restore credibility with the kind of people who boo him, and his feuds were all set up to get the kids behind him, just like Cena, which is all fine, I think more people should be booked well. This is not the problem.

On the contrary, you have Sheamus. Was never booked as anything, there was never a plan for him to shine, hell, there was never a plan for him at all. He kind of just fell into and out of feuds with no clear development of character other than the odd tease of his cash-in. That he was in that 10man tag last night said it all for the most part, he was in there with Barrett, Ryback, Rusev, Ziggler as the go to guys for when they needed an entertaining tag match to sandwich the storylines that are going on simultaneously on Raw. So it shouldn't really surprise anyone that he wasn't a great choice for the new WWE champion. People should legitimately be underwhelmed because it came completely from nowhere with no build.

But I think if I look at it after the year I've just discussed, do I view Roman as a better wrestler than Sheamus? He's had some better matches this year, but no I don't think so. They're both competent ring technicians, whose match quality will invariably depend on who they are against and what they're given to work with. Is he more charismatic or a better talker? Nope. Sheamus is average, but Roman is worse.

With the way Ambrose has been booked this year, with no clear plan or development, it'd have been just as strange for him to win the title clean last night, same with Owens. These guys are phenomenal wrestlers, and great talkers but nothing has been done well this year, and nothing has ever looked like happening for anyone but Roman, and for me Roman has been the failure. But not so much Roman even, as those pulling his strings, the people who have failed to make anything with anyone really.

The Undertaker return has been done poorly, the Sting return has been done poorly, the Rollins title reign has been done poorly, the Wyatt repackaging has been done poorly. All of this has had so much potential but the only time anything feels big is when it involves Brock Lesnar because this guy is a legitimate superstar. The only thing that has not been done poorly is the Roman Reigns revival but unfortunately he just does not have what it takes to be a legitimate superstar and thus the only way last night was ever going to be in any way interesting was an Ambrose/Reigns heel turn.

A sad endictment that would be the case with or without Sheamus, who like Reigns before him is a victim of being pushed somewhere that he definitely was not booked towards.

Lord TSC

For the record, I've zero problems with Sheamus. It's not his fault that things are being booked so poorly. If anything, I'm quiet happy for him to get the title, on a personable standpoint. From a creative standpoint, the entire show was a bombsite....

Rock Lesnar

Lord TSC wrote: »

For the record, I've zero problems with Sheamus. It's not his fault that things are being booked so poorly. If anything, I'm quiet happy for him to get the title, on a personable standpoint. From a creative standpoint, the entire show was a bombsite....

Im the same, no problems with Sheamus as champ, i just dont care now, at one stage i did, but not now and its just down to the way he's been booked, its the same with Ziggler and Cesaro, i'd like to see them as champion but i don't care now cos i know if it happened, it wouldn't last long and that's pointless.

gimmick

From a booking point of view why didn't Ambrose attempt to make a save?

Stupid boring lazy repetitive booking. A title win is almost meaningless these days and a lot of that is due to the Mobey In The Bank gimmick.

I'm sure Vince and his yes men think that by doing this there will be a Bryan esque run to Mania for Roman. But that is lazy in the extreme.

A Primal Nut

8

Good to see Sheamus log into boards and give the show a 10.

Stereomaniac

7

I gave the show a 6. I enjoyed Sheamus cashing in, Paige vs. Charlotte and Reigns vs. Del Rio.

A Primal Nut

8

I think people are over-reacting to Sheamus winning, even those who don't like him. It's almost guaranteed Reigns will fight him at TLC and Royal Rumble, and beat him for the title. TLC isn't that big a PPV and the Royal Rumble will have the Royal Rumble match and probably a Lesnar appearance as a selling point so the title match isn't a big deal. He's someone for Reigns to feud with. Put Reigns with Owens or Ambrose and Reigns is getting booed out of the building. Whereas Sheamus is one of the few heels who gets heat every time he appears, go-away heat or not, Reigns is meant to be the selling point; it's old-school booking to get cheers for Reigns. People criticize WWE for silly booking, but here they've gone with the old-school approach.

Once the Rumble is over and Reigns is established as champion and hopefully for WWE, move over, he can feud with Owens, Cena, Lesnar and Ambrose. There is no point blowing through feuds at a time that isn't that critical for them. Yeah ratings are down but they don't mean anything as they have a big tv deal for the next years already signed. It's much more critical for them to get Reigns more over and have a big feud for him come WrestleMania and afterwards.

Of course, whether they should be going with Reigns as top babyface at all is a different point.

A Primal Nut

8

gimmick wrote: »

Stupid boring lazy repetitive booking. A title win is almost meaningless these days and a lot of that is due to the Mobey In The Bank gimmick.

Don't know about that. Before Sheamus there had been two champions in 15 months. It's nearly 20 years since they have been this protective of the title.

A Primal Nut

8

One thing that annoyed me is they booked a one-sided feud between the BOD and the Wyatts for one reason, to get Undertaker over, presumably for a big match at the Rumble or WrestleMania, and it worked. Why can't they book one-sided feuds like that to help their full-time guys?

gimmick

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Don't know about that. Before Sheamus there had been two champions in 15 months. It's nearly 20 years since they have been this protective of the title.

The last 2 "main" title wins were cash ins from guys who lost matches earlier in the night. Rollins had a joke of a reign. Can't imagine Sheamus will do much better.

Caovyn Lineah

gimmick wrote: »

The last 2 "main" title wins were cash ins from guys who lost matches earlier in the night. Rollins had a joke of a reign. Can't imagine Sheamus will do much better.

How was Rollins reign a joke?

gimmick

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

How was Rollins reign a joke?

He was not booked even remotely strong. I get that the whole "chicken shït" heel thing is necessary but Rollins was made look weak as well as cowardly.

In time to come the only thing that will be memorable about his reign was how it ended.